What cameras for HDTV?

The cameras they use look almost exactly like the SD units they've been using for the last decade or so. Those vary, based on whether they're full studio units, convertable units that can be used as a portable shoulder camera, large "camcorders" that have recordable decks either built in or as a "snap on" unit, or mini camera for use for in-car ands other similar shots.

Browse around this site to get a look at what's out there: http://www.ikegami.com/br/products/h...ra_frame1.html

Some cameras have operators directly controlling them while others are robotic and are controlled almost like a video game.

It varies from program to program. Most episodic dramas are captured on 35mm film and then downtransfered to HD (usually D5 or HDCAM). There are so many different HD cameras on the market now it would be hard to say who is using what, especially on shows that are put together in post-production.

Most mobile production companies that provide production facilities for remote events (games, event specials, etc) tend to use either Thomson/Grass Valley LDK-6000 or LDK-8000 or Sony HDC-1500's, though the Grass Valley cameras have pretty much owned to market for some time now. A handful of mobile vendors have chosen the Ikegami line of high end HD cameras, though Ikegami doesnt have the near the market share they did a decade ago. A Sony F-900 is a digital cinematography camera and is therefore not suited to live use. But just about every major video equipment manufacturer that makes cameras has some sort of high-end HD camera line, though Panasonic has placed its weight in digital cinematography and their Varicam line.

Since the proliferation of prosumer HD formats, such as HDV, XDCAM, and Panasonic's P2 cards (DVCPro100), lower budget posted shows (such as progams on HGTV, churches, and production companies without a huge rental budget, have taken over the low end of the video spectrum. As far as network caliber video goes though 95% of the time it's the Thomson/GVG or Sony cameras.

The LDKs had the advantage of triax for a long time, but now Sony cameras also have that option and more Sonys are being used. It's subjective, but I think the Sony cameras make better pictures. The NEP Denali trucks that do high profile shows use Sonys.

Different productions call for different equipment. Couple major types:

Studio-based systems (large, based on pedestals or heavy-duty tripods). These are used primarily in production studios, and for the main follow cams for sports. They start at $100,000 or so and top out much higher.

http://bssc.sel.sony.com/Broadcastan...sp=19&id=80710

Field production cameras (also known as ENG or EFP). Your more standard shoulder-mount cameras. These are used in the field for news and sports, and sometimes for episodics and motion pictures. For HD they typically start at around $30,000 and can push up to $200,000 or so.

http://bssc.sel.sony.com/Broadcastan...sp=19&id=80711

Panasonic and Sony are pretty well leading the HD game, with Ikegami following pretty closely.

Panasonic doesnt really offer any major solution for live television studio or remote production though they are the leading manufacturer of 720p gear (as they are in a bit of a friendly, but increasingly irrelevent, format war with Sony). As stated above their primary HD camera market is based on ENG and Digital Cinematography and this has proved very lucrative for them. I don't know that there is a mobile TV vendor in America that uses Panasonic cameras for primary acquisition. Several provide Varicams, HPX-200, HPX-2000, etc for ENG use however. To expand upon what TVOD wrote, the LDK-6000s were also popular when they came out because they are format switchable at the camera head. This is a very lucrative feature for mobile vendors whose facilities and equipment need to be able to quickly and easily switch between 720p, 1080i and 24p modes depending on the production.

Philips/Thomson/GrassValley LDK cameras - as well as the Triax advantage (which is very important for covereage in areas, like sporting venues, that have been pre-wired with Triax and not fibre) which they had over Sony for a number of years (Sony now also offer a Triax option) - also had the benefit over earlier Sony cameras in that their CCD was switchable between high quality 1080/24-30p, 1080/50-60i and 720/50-60p. This was a result of Philips developing a 4320 line sensor that allowed 1080 and 720 acquisition using line-averaging. This is important for facilities that have to work for both 1080i and 720p broadcasters, and also for those that provide both 1080/24-30p and 1080/50-60i production. (In the UK 1080/24p and 1080/25p multi-camera HD coverage is used for some entertainment shows - music concerts, stand-up comedy etc.)

Earlier Sony cameras were based on a 1080i sensor - which originally meant 720p and 1080p output involved a conversion from 1080i and the quality resulting was not as good as that from the Philips LDK cameras. However the new Sony HDC-1500 series cameras operate with a 1080p sensor - and deliver high quality 720p and 1080p results, and as a result the HDC-1500 is proving very popular, whereas previously Philips (now Thomson/GrassValley) had a large area of the market sewn-up.

One other note - in Europe - very few large system cameras are in use now, instead the optically and electronically identical (with a few power differences) lightweight versions are usually deployed, and if a large box lens is required, a cradle is used to support this. This allows the same camera heads to be used in both "big lens" studio configurations and shoulder-mount/steadicam-mounted lightweight configurations - rather than needing two sets of camera heads for the two different styles of operation. This has been the case in BBC studios pretty much since the advent of CCD cameras, and in BBC outside broadcasts since the adoption of 16:9 CCDs. (A few large 4:3 CCD cameras were purchased)

Also - in Europe and on some US productions - some episodic drama is no longer shot on film but is shot on 24fps HD video - mainly using Sony HDCam or HDCam SR camcorders, though the BBC also uses Panasonic Varicam and other DVCProHD cameras for some shows. (Bleak House was shot on Sony video, Torchwood started Panasonic and shifted to Sony, Robin Hood was shot Panasonic I believe)

I don't know what it is about the Sonys that CBS use via their PVI trucks, compared to NBC's NEP trucks. Is it different settings, different Sony camera models....?

I once saw an NBC Notre Dame game and a CBS SEC football game on side-by-side HDTVs at a restaurant, and the difference was night and day: The colors from CBS were noticeably punchier and more "3D"-like, than NBC. All in all, some of the best HD I've seen, and definitely the best HD I've seen from a sports event.

The Sunday Night Football games look a bit better than Notre Dame games, but not by much, and certainly not better enough to top anything from CBS. I can even notice a difference on SD sets.

Anyway, kind of odd since both NBC and CBS use Sony cameras.

Yes but like anything there is a great deal of subjectivity as to what makes a good picture. CBS tends to be a hair on the blue side with their white balance. No one just hooks up a camera and just turns it on and runs with it. Every VC has a different skill set and a different evaluation of what a good camera image is.

PVI trucks? What company are your referring to? Are you referring to Princeton Video Image which is the vendor CBS uses for the virtual first down line technology?

CBS uses production trucks from a number of companies including but not limited to NEP, Corplex, F&F, and NMT.

Also NBC and CBS do not exclusively use Sony products in the field.

Yup. As I remember, CBS had a press release talking about how they hired PVI for production trucking for 2007's HD Golf coverage. Also, at the end of every CBS NFL game I've seen this year, there's been a credit at the bottom of the screen describing how Sony provided the HD cameras. Considering how both NBC/SNF and CBS use Sony HD cameras, if both rented from NEP, I wouldn't understand why CBS has consistently better, more vivid "3D"-like colors than NBC.

I'd understand why CBS wouldn't be using Sony cameras for ALL their telecasts, especially for early March Madness action. However, given that Sony has sponsored NFL broadcasts for a while (and I even remember "Sony HDTV" monikers on CBS programs denoting HD NFL games last season), I'd be surprised if Sony didn't provide every HD camera for every NFL game.

I never said that NBC was all Sony. Perhaps that's why Notre Dame games look worse (more pale colors) than SNF games -- they could be using different cameras.

Camera systems created for electronic cinema are sometimes used for broadcast HD productions. Greater sensitivity for shooting in the dark is often mentioned as one advantage. Individual system use is mentioned periodically on avsforums, and subforums here offer discussions by those using the hardware. Most recently mentioned within AVS: Showtime's "Dexter" series, using the Viper system as well as 35mm film. -- John

Yep - same is true of some HD TV drama and comedy over here, where digital cinema cameras have been used rather than conventional broadcast HD cameras.

"Silent Witness" has switched from Super 16 to the Arri-D20.
http://www.arrimedia.com/Silent-Witness.php

"Last of the Summer Wine" has switched from Super 16 to the Thomson/GrassValley Viper. (LotSW started in 1973 using the then BBC standard mix of studio SD video and location 16mm film, then moved to SD video in studio and location, then to Super 16 in studio and location, and is now HD...)

Since most of these digital-cinema cameras use a 35-mm-size sensor (not Vipers, I believe), with roughly 4k resolution, often downconverted to either 2k or 1920X1080, has anyone there ever measured whether this oversampling/downconversion boosts effective resolution significantly? AIUI, standard HD's limiting resolution of ~1700 lines maximum effective horizontal resolution could become a full ~1920X1080.

Not that, I suspect, shrinkage to <17 Mbps (MPEG-2) for home delivery would let full HD resolution survive such compression--or perhaps even exist on a movie recording due to 'artistic' camera filtering. Recall a while back they used Panavision's Genesis 35-mm-size-sensor digital camera for a "24" episode and night shots, but Fox here delivered it as 720p. -- John

BBC HD which broadcasts these two series in the UK uses 18Mbs at H264 MPEG4 - but is 1440x1080/50i for broadcast. I don't know if either series is edited to HDCam SR, HD-D5 or HDCam, nor what playout system is in use (i.e. what compression level and resolution the playout servers run at)

Not sure if either will be released on BluRay or HD-DVD in the immediate future.

Silent Witness looks pretty good on BBC HD - can't say I'm a fan of LotSW.

Because as stated above, there is a great degree of subjectivity in how the actual operators fax out the cameras from event to event and even from network to network. Most high end cameras (of any manufacturer, whether Sony, Thomson or Ikegami) offer pretty accurate color reproduction. Certainly if you compared against a test pattern the different brands of cameras would be almost indistinguishable from one another except for the most professionally trained of eyes -- and even then that's questionable -- in almost every regard. Again the camera will only respond relative to how it's been setup in the first place, and if NBC is further desaturating their picture, or otherwise affecting the video & chrominance at the transmission stage downstream, these will have significant effects as well. Also on remotes the image has to go through an uplink/VYVX point as well which is another opportunity for the image to be manipulated. I do think it might be a transmission thing though as NBC's live studio programming (Today Show, Football Night, and Nightly News) seem to be fine.

[/quote]However, given that Sony has sponsored NFL broadcasts for a while (and I even remember "Sony HDTV" monikers on CBS programs denoting HD NFL games last season), I'd be surprised if Sony didn't provide every HD camera for every NFL game.[/quote]

I don't know of very many mobile vendors that have complete Sony outfits. The NEP ND4 truck was specially built for Sunday Night Football and that contract. I don't think CBS has a similar contract with Sony other than that of a presenting sponsor. As discussed there are barely enough trucks to keep up with the HD demand to begin with between major HD renters (NBC, CBS, FOX, ESPN, Regional Sports Networks), thus many shows are forced to go with whatever facilities are available. Honestly in the grand scheme of operating and building a production truck, the brand of camera (especially high end camera) is less important to the final product than you might think.

[/quote]I never said that NBC was all Sony. Perhaps that's why Notre Dame games look worse (more pale colors) than SNF games -- they could be using different cameras.[/quote]

Again it's rare that the reason for noticeable differences in chroma levels are the result of the imaging sensor of the camera. We're talking about $100,000 pieces of gear. If you were just looking at a raw test pattern most people would have a difficult time easily differentiating between manufacturers.

ND3 does Sunday Night Football. ND4 which debuted at the US Open (golf) was doing the late season golf because it conflicts with ND3's football schedule.

CBS's main golf production truck is NMT's HD12. PVI may provide some telecast enhancements, but production resources are provided by National Mobile Television.


The difference is in transmission, most of these broadcasts would look indistinguishable quality wise, before transmission.


They may or may not use Sony cameras on each NFL broadcast, I don't know each truck that CBS uses for the NFL. The Sony thing is really just a sponsorship of the HDTV broadcast. I know for a fact that every camera for CBS at The Masters last year was not a Sony.

A bit off topic... but does anyone know the name of this Panasonic studio camera?

It has the name "DIGI 26" printed in large letters on the front, and has a green line across the front of it as well. Unfortunately, I only have a picture of the rear half of it...
The front section/lens looks similar to the Sony HDC1000.

They're still making that show? Wow. Much of the original cast must be dead and gone by now, because many of them were pretty old to begin with.

The last I saw, first Truly, and then that little, ragged poor one of the bunch were gone - at least from the show. That kind of killed it for me, because the running bit between him and Nora Batty was the funniest part of the show.

Right after that was when they stopped showing it here, but since that particular PBS station went HD not too long ago, it would be nice if they picked up the new episodes again. Maybe I'll drop them a line and suggest it.

Sony is selling a pile of these for studio and remote usage with the optional build up kit. Have 5 of them here.

http://bssc.sel.sony.com/Broadcastan...sp=24&id=88627

DIGI 26 will almost certainly refer to the Fujinon lens on the front of the camera - not the Panasonic camera itself.

Something like this : http://www.fujinon.com/Broadcast/Pro...?cat=19&id=161

Confusingly - broadcast camera manufacturers don't usually make broadcast lenses - so you can have a Sony camera with a Canon or Fujinon lens on the front...

Panasonic never made any impact in the UK broadcast camera market outside their camcorder ranges - so I've never seen anything like the model you have posted an image of. ISTR that they were the main supplier of an early 720p production truck for one of the US broadcasters (American) football coverage, which they were also on-air sponsors for? I can't imagine many people will actually be buying Panasonic systems cameras - Sony and Philips/Thomson/GrassValley have that pretty much sewn-up these days - though as others have said Ikegami have some HD presence in the US (Haven't heard of any HD Ikegamis being deployed in Europe)

Panasonic DO have a reasonable share of the SD and HD camcorder market with their DVCPro and DVCProHD based models - and the P2 format is causing some interest.

Yep - the 1500 is the BBC's main HD studio and OB camera. They haven't bought a single Philips/Thomson/GrassValley HD LDK camera since they started building up their London HD resources. I believe the new BBC Glasgow studios at Pacific Quay are entirely Sony HD based as well.

Before the BBC had their own HD resources they used a lot of Alfacam facilities - who are entirely LDK based.

However the BBC had been Sony-only for outside broadcasts since the early- 90s when they finally retired the last of their LDK5s they bought in the 70s (and the few LDK91s they had for experimental Com3 16:9 production), and studios are replacing their Thomson 1657s (and LDK100s in News) with either SD BVP-E30 or HD 1500 Sony models.

(They DID have the experimental BTS and Philips HD cameras in the late 80s and early 90s of course)

Yep - amazing isn't it?! One of the gentlest, longest running BBC shows, and it is one of the first to move to HD!


Quite a few are still with us - though as you say many aren't. What it DOES provide is a showcase for actors who have a lifetime of experience and talent - and there are precious few shows that provide so many parts for older actors and actresses. Personally I'm not a major fan - but I do appreciate that others are, and although I don't particularly enjoy the show, I can see why others do. It is certainly made pretty well (though I'm not convinced that they are coming close to getting the best from the Viper they are using)


Yep - Compo the character and Bill Owen the actor are no longer with us. ISTR that the son of the actor Bill Owen is now in the series.

They have been quite clever at refreshing the cast through the years...


Couldn't hurt to ask. It is very "film look" HD - with lots of grain and desaturated colours - just like it looked like with Super 16... (Personally I preferred it when it was, briefly, all 576/50i studio and location video)