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Buy Blu-ray player now or wait until next year?

post #1 of 46
12/6/07 at 10:12am
Thread Starter 
I recently purchased the Sharp LC-32D62U 1080p LCD TV, for the most part I'm very happy with it. However, I'm not happy with the way SD DVD's look, they look much worse than on my older SD TV.

I considered buying an upconverting DVD player, was looking at the Oppo DV-980H. Also looked at the Oppo DV-981HD which may be a little better at upconverting but I like the overall features of the 980 better (usb 2.0 etc.).

However, I'd rather buy a Blu-ray player but VG-Ex SD DVD upconverting is essential. My budget allows me to spend $400-$500. Is there a Blu-ray player in that price range that will upconvert as well or better than the Oppo 980H? And, generally speaking, will a Blu-ray player upconvert SD DVD's better than an upconverting DVD player?

Trying to find the right Blu-ray player to buy so far has been very frustrating with the varied SD DVD upconversion capabilities of different models, changing standards...profile 1.0 to 1.1...HDMI 1.1 to 1.3 etc. I'm trying to avoid buying a Blu-ray player that'll be outdated in 2 years. Any suggestions in a player that would suit me or should I wait it out until next year? So far the Panny BD-30k comes close but the reviews I've read suggest that the SD DVD upconversion isn't very good.

Although these seem like great options for me, short term, I'm not interested in a PS3 (I want a SA Blu-ray player) or an HD-DVD player (losing format eventually IMO, not enough studio support, movies).

TIA
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post #2 of 46
12/6/07 at 10:37am
I have the Panny DMP-BD30K and I think the upconversion is pretty good. It also has all your bases covered unless you want BD-Live (no internet access) or the player to decode adv. audio codecs internally(will bitstream though).
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post #3 of 46
12/6/07 at 10:40am
I have a new 42" 1080p TV, so I am going through the same decision making process. I got a very cheap (Magnavox) 1080p upconverting player, and SD DVD's look very good on it. Far better than anything I had ever seen, except true HD of course.
But I still lust after that crystal clarity of true HD, so I am strongly considering a BD or HD-DVD player.
Prices are tumbling, so it seems like it is just a matter of whether you want to pay the price to satisfy your HD lust right away, or you are willing to wait and pay about half for the same capability in a year.

The HD-DVD players are very reasonable right now, but they all have some functionality "issues", and I agree that eventually I think it will be the losing format. Some of the BD players also have issues, but at least the higher end ones seem stable (all just from what I read on numerous boards).

Personally, I think I will wait, because the upconverted images do look very good.
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post #4 of 46
12/6/07 at 10:44am
Don't understand the hate for Ps3. It has the PQ, easily upgradeable and by for the fastest and most reliable hd player.
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post #5 of 46
12/6/07 at 10:50am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amber O'Doul View Post

Prices are tumbling, so it seems like it is just a matter of whether you want to pay the price to satisfy your HD lust right away, or you are willing to wait and pay about half for the same capability in a year.

I kind of want to satisfy that HD lust now, I don't know if I'm capable of waiting a year. The Oppo 980 upconvert DVD player is $162, I think I'd much rather apply that amount towards a blu-ray player that can upconvert as well or close to the Oppo, plus be able to watch Blu-ray as well.
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post #6 of 46
12/6/07 at 10:50am
I'm not sure that you're going to see a huge difference though since you're using a smaller screen size. Most really start to see a big difference on larger 50"+ screen sizes.

As for 'issues', all blu-ray and hd dvd players have issues. The formats are more complex than dvd. In my experience though, I've had less trouble with hd dvd than I have with blu-ray, though now that I replaced my bd-p1200 with the dmp-bd30k, I'm much happier with blu-ray than I used to be. I haven't had any issues other than speed, with my hd-a1 or hd-a35.
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post #7 of 46
12/6/07 at 10:54am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goatse View Post

Don't understand the hate for Ps3. It has the PQ, easily upgradeable and by for the fastest and most reliable hd player.

I don't hate the PS3 at all, I just prefer a standalone unit. I'm not a gamer, plus my 15 year old already has that "other" gaming system and I don't want to give him any more reason to spend money on games and sit on his ass .
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post #8 of 46
12/6/07 at 10:58am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by khwiggins2 View Post

I'm not sure that you're going to see a huge difference though since you're using a smaller screen size. Most really start to see a big difference on larger 50"+ screen sizes.

My apologies, I'm not sure what you mean...I won't notice a difference between an upconverted SD DVD on the Oppo and the BD-30 because of my screen size?
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post #9 of 46
12/6/07 at 11:00am
gotcha, either way 40gb ps3 is probably the best. I don't have experiences with standalones but on "Cars", the first screen is "please wait 60-120secs while your movie loads" or whatever deal. Ps3 loaded the movie up in only a few secs, I'm sure standalones would be a good few mins of wait. So far I'm pretty impressed with the vid game machine.
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post #10 of 46
12/6/07 at 11:02am
At the end of August I upgraded my HT. New 1080P Samsung HL-T6187s LED DLP and a Samsung BD-P1200. I went with the BD-P1200 due to the Secrets review and took the BluRay capability as a bonus to a fantastic SD player. Well I should have read up here more before my purchase...the BD-P1200 has some PITA issues...like I can't watch the 3rd Pirates movie for instance. Anyway having moved to HDM I had this I can't buy SD media anymore feeling come over me...then Transformers came out...HD-DVD only...crap. So then I go out and buy a Tosh HD-A30.

Only took a week or so to figure out that basically most of these players need frequent firmware updates and apparently can be hit or miss with playability of new media. What a freaking waste. I now have the feeling that by the time these players...either format...are stable we will be streeming our HDM.

So what I am saying is that if I had this all to do over again I think I would save my money. Get the Oppo DVD player and wait to see how the format war shakes out...or wait for streeming media to take over.
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post #11 of 46
12/6/07 at 11:14am
once again we hear this ,dvd or better yet upconverted dvd is good enough.
now im not knocking amber o'doul[cool name]
its just this is the big hurdle hdm is going to have to jump.
the studios are not helping. they contuine to double dip movies on dvd.
or reissue titles over and over again.
why dont the studios stop reissueing old dvd titles and just release newer movies and cut out older titles altogether. release the double dippers on hdm.
what im saying is slowly get rid of sd dvd.
this has been done before with records vs cds.
laserdisc went to dvd. laserdisc faded out.
bad enough we have a format war,worse then that is dvd.
i cant belive im calling for dvds ..head. dvd has been good to me all these years.
but i love hdm better.
dvd needs to be put down like a old horse. its time has come ...r.i.p
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post #12 of 46
12/6/07 at 11:40am
If you wish to avoid upgrading players in the future you will need to wait until a profile 2.0 player is released.

Current players are Profile 1.0
Profile 1.1 players will offer picture in picture functionality
and Profile 2.0 playes will have internet connections and give web enabled functionality along with having some hardware changes such as more storage space
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post #13 of 46
12/6/07 at 11:40am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goatse View Post

Don't understand the hate for Ps3. It has the PQ, easily upgradeable and by for the fastest and most reliable hd player.


Most of my friends and I just won't buy a PS3 for our HT setup. Its the game geek name and Sony brand behind most of the reasons not to get one. I have no interest in a game console for playing movies and just prefer a set top BD player.
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post #14 of 46
12/6/07 at 11:47am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tvine2000 View Post

once again we hear this ,dvd or better yet upconverted dvd is good enough.
now im not knocking amber o'doul[cool name]
its just this is the big hurdle hdm is going to have to jump.
the studios are not helping. they contuine to double dip movies on dvd.
or reissue titles over and over again.
why dont the studios stop reissueing old dvd titles and just release newer movies and cut out older titles altogether. release the double dippers on hdm.
what im saying is slowly get rid of sd dvd.
this has been done before with records vs cds.
laserdisc went to dvd. laserdisc faded out.
bad enough we have a format war,worse then that is dvd.
i cant belive im calling for dvds ..head. dvd has been good to me all these years.
but i love hdm better.
dvd needs to be put down like a old horse. its time has come ...r.i.p

I totally disagree with your logic. Yeah, HDM is better and if I get a Blu-ray player I'll choose the Blu-ray versions over DVD. But, I and millions of other people, have extensive DVD library's consisting of movies that can't be found on HDM, home movies etc. For most average Joe's, upconverted DVD's is essential for the time being.
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post #15 of 46
12/6/07 at 11:47am
Quote:
Originally Posted by TK6411 View Post

Most of my friends and I just won't buy a PS3 for our HT setup. Its the game geek name and Sony brand behind most of the reasons not to get one. I have no interest in a game console for playing movies and just prefer a set top BD player.

see thats what I don't understand, because none of your points are vaild. So you rather have a unreliable, slow player and not upgradeable just because it looks like your dvd player? As a AV enthusiast guess don't understand AV snobbery.
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post #16 of 46
12/6/07 at 11:57am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goatse View Post

see thats what I don't understand, because your none of your points are vaild. So you rather have a unreliable, slow player and not upgradeable just because it looks like your dvd player? As a AV enthusiast guess don't understand AV snobbery.

There's some defininte bias there, however there are some valid reasons for preferring a SA BD player over the PS3. When I was deciding, my choices were the PS3 and the Panny 30BK. The item that ultimately tipped the scales was the remote. In order the gain the highest WFA, any player would need to work with our universal remote. I know the PS3 can be adapted to work with a universal remote, but it's a little too kludgy for our taste.

I purchased the Panny and have been extremely happy since.

BTW - I find the upscaling on the Panny to be almost as good as my Elite 59-AVi was so I have no complaints about the treatment SD DVDs get with this player
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post #17 of 46
12/6/07 at 12:00pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TomsHT View Post

If you wish to avoid upgrading players in the future you will need to wait until a profile 2.0 player is released.

Current players are Profile 1.0
Profile 1.1 players will offer picture in picture functionality
and Profile 2.0 playes will have internet connections and give web enabled functionality along with having some hardware changes such as more storage space


Avoiding upgrading players in the near future would be preferable but if I want to watch Blu-ray discs now I'm afraid upgrading will be inevitable. I basically just want something that does a VG-Ex job playing BD and a VG-Ex job upconverting SD DVD in the $400-$500 range that'll be good for the next 2-3 years and then upgrade.

Why didn't Blu-ray do what HD-DVD did and have these profile 2.0 features in the beginning? As far as I can tell there's only one profile 1.1 player currently on the market (Panny BD-30) and no profile 2.0 players.
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post #18 of 46
12/6/07 at 12:02pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by TomsHT View Post

If you wish to avoid upgrading players in the future you will need to wait until a profile 2.0 player is released.

Current players are Profile 1.0
Profile 1.1 players will offer picture in picture functionality
and Profile 2.0 playes will have internet connections and give web enabled functionality along with having some hardware changes such as more storage space

Only if you care about that stuff. I bought the BD30k recently since I was tired of waiting, the picture quality really is great, the unit appears reliable, and I couldn't care less for the "features" added in 2.0.

To the OP, if you're main interest is getting a BR player to watch movies on, go for it.
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post #19 of 46
12/6/07 at 12:03pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by bbanderic View Post

I kind of want to satisfy that HD lust now, I don't know if I'm capable of waiting a year. The Oppo 980 upconvert DVD player is $162, I think I'd much rather apply that amount towards a blu-ray player that can upconvert as well or close to the Oppo, plus be able to watch Blu-ray as well.

Panny DMP-BD30K is a good choice. I have one and blu ray movies are
great, and it does a great job upconverting. I have the Oppo 981, and
to my eyes, and even the kid's eyes, I don't see a difference for the same movie
upconverted between the Oppo and the Panny blu ray. There probably
is a difference that is important to some people. I agree with your other
point. I am specifically not buying duplicate movies in HDM that I already
own in SD. There are routine sales for blu movies where they are sometimes
cheaper than the SD versions. (you'll probably save more money in software
than player cost waiting a year with all these sales all the time, but that's
another thing entirely)
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post #20 of 46
12/6/07 at 12:07pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by bbanderic View Post

Avoiding upgrading players in the near future would be preferable but if I want to watch Blu-ray discs now I'm afraid upgrading will be inevitable. I basically just want something that does a VG-Ex job playing BD and a VG-Ex job upconverting SD DVD in the $400-$500 range that'll be good for the next 2-3 years and then upgrade.

Why didn't Blu-ray do what HD-DVD did and have these profile 2.0 features in the beginning? As far as I can tell there's only one profile 1.1 player currently on the market (Panny BD-30) and no profile 2.0 players.

Blu-ray would have had to delay launching there format by at least 2 years then. It would have been a instant victory for HD DVD if they had a 2 year exclusive head start on the market

Yes at least one profile 1.1 player is out with others on the way and even profile 2.0 players and titles announced for 2008. So updating to these profiles may be closer then your 2-3 year plan.

What remains to be seen is what problems these new discs causes on existing players. Supposebly exisiting players will be able to play the movies and just not access the new features but as can be currently seen by new releases with newer functionality some existing players are already having problems.
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post #21 of 46
12/6/07 at 12:32pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bbanderic View Post

I don't hate the PS3 at all, I just prefer a standalone unit. I'm not a gamer, plus my 15 year old already has that "other" gaming system and I don't want to give him any more reason to spend money on games and sit on his ass .


One thing that would push me to buy the PS3....

I believe the PS3 is equipped with a USB 2.0 input port. I have most of my concert DVD's backed up on an external HD. I'm curious, if I were to hook up an external HD loaded with DVD data files (Video_ts), would they play and possibly upconvert as well? If the PS3 were capable of this I'd buy it in a second.
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post #22 of 46
12/6/07 at 12:33pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by bbanderic View Post

Avoiding upgrading players in the near future would be preferable but if I want to watch Blu-ray discs now I'm afraid upgrading will be inevitable. I basically just want something that does a VG-Ex job playing BD and a VG-Ex job upconverting SD DVD in the $400-$500 range that'll be good for the next 2-3 years and then upgrade.

You listed only two requirements: BD movies and upconverting. Check out
the profile explanation sticky to determine if any of the 2.0 features are
critical to you. If not, the panny is 1.1 and works well (for me, so far)
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post #23 of 46
12/6/07 at 12:45pm
If you can't wait until HDM is PnP and error free, I would get the Panasonic BD-30.
It's the ONLY profile 1.1 out there.

There's been statements/speculation made that the PS3 will be updated to support 1.1 for over a month and that hasn't happened.

Also be warned that a FW update here and there will/may be required from time to time to resolve specific playback issues.

You just have to ask yourself if you are ready to dive in the HDM(Blu-ray or HD DVD) at it's early stages and be prepared to deal with possible issues from time to time until it's stabilized, hopefully within the upcoming year.

No matter how people try to spin it, if you buy now, you are an early adopter basically beta testing HDM for the companies.
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post #24 of 46
12/6/07 at 12:46pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by flatpanel View Post

You listed only two requirements: BD movies and upconverting. Check out
the profile explanation sticky to determine if any of the 2.0 features are
critical to you. If not, the panny is 1.1 and works well (for me, so far)


@flatpanel:

Correct, VG-EX SD DVD upconverting and BD playback are essential . I'd be willing to sacrifice the profile 2.0 features and probably the profile 1.1 features as well, I just want to have the disc load properly and just watch the movie.

TomsHD commented:

What remains to be seen is what problems these new discs causes on existing players (profile 1.0 and 1.1). Supposedly exisiting players will be able to play the movies and just not access the new features but as can be currently seen by new releases with newer functionality some existing players are already having problems.

I'm willing to take the chance that the profile 2.0 discs will load and play properly in any profile 1.0 or 1.1 player that I purchase.
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post #25 of 46
12/6/07 at 12:52pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by bbanderic View Post

TomsHD commented:

What remains to be seen is what problems these new discs causes on existing players (profile 1.0 and 1.1). Supposedly exisiting players will be able to play the movies and just not access the new features but as can be currently seen by new releases with newer functionality some existing players are already having problems.

I'm willing to take the chance that the profile 2.0 discs will load and play properly in any profile 1.0 or 1.1 player that I purchase.

This is true only if the player manufacturer decides to release FW updates for the discontinued players, which they have been doing.
But this does not go with out a word of caution as if you look in probably every profile 1.0 player manual, there is a disclosure that only profile 1.0 is supported and other profile playback may not be supported.
I've seen these disclosures in the Sony BDP-S300 and Samsung BD-P1200 manuals.
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post #26 of 46
12/6/07 at 1:20pm
I'll plug the Samsung BD-P1400, as it should also meet your requirements very well. It does an *excellent* job upconverting SD-DVDs. It still has a few firmware glitches remaining, but playback issues for SDs and currently-released BDs are resolved.

I just moved to Blu-ray a few months ago and picked up an HD-DVD player for $98 last month. I agree with a previous poster that I have lost my appetite to buy SDs. (I just bought 12 BDs today for $100, none of which are repurchases of SDs!)

To me, the biggest issues that still exist in the HD world are related to HDMI compatibility. A few examples:

1) Interoperability of 1080p/24 is still a problem for some combinations, but not others.
2) The addition of HDMI-streamed high-def audio seems to increase the burden. I'm not convinced the PS3 will bridge this gap due to hardware limitations.
3) Many, many reported problems seem related to HDMI in some way.

While firmware updates have the promise to fix all these things, there is that ever-present fear of bricking your device.

I'm happy I upgraded to HD, but I'm afraid there is no looking back.

Good luck with your decision!

Reg
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post #27 of 46
12/6/07 at 2:21pm
Why not go format neutral? You can find an A3 or Venturer (Rebadged A3) for $200 and I'm sure you'll find BR players for $300 after Christmas. The A3 does a great job upscaling SD. I'm taking advantage of the BR disk sales now and planning to get a player in the after Christmas sales.
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post #28 of 46
12/6/07 at 5:28pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by bbanderic View Post

I don't hate the PS3 at all, I just prefer a standalone unit. I'm not a gamer, plus my 15 year old already has that "other" gaming system and I don't want to give him any more reason to spend money on games and sit on his ass .

Most honest answer I have found tonight.
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post #29 of 46
12/6/07 at 5:52pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by bbanderic View Post

I considered buying an upconverting DVD player, was looking at the Oppo DV-980H. Also looked at the Oppo DV-981HD which may be a little better at upconverting but I like the overall features of the 980 better (usb 2.0 etc.).

However, I'd rather buy a Blu-ray player but VG-Ex SD DVD upconverting is essential. My budget allows me to spend $400-$500. Is there a Blu-ray player in that price range that will upconvert as well or better than the Oppo 980H? And, generally speaking, will a Blu-ray player upconvert SD DVD's better than an upconverting DVD player?

If you get a good Blu-ray player, then the upconvert capabilities are going to be as good as the Oppo. However there are couple of caveats you should be aware of.

1. All Blu-ray players are region coded for both standard DVD and Blu-ray. What this means is that you would not be able to play region coded DVD from outside R1 territory (assuming you are in US, you would not be able to play any DVDs from Europe or Asia)
2. US Blu-ray players cannot play PAL DVDs (typically from Europe)
3. Loading times for Java enhanced Blu-ray discs (most Blu-ray movies in the future) are reportedly very long (minutes) and compatibility is spotty (may require firmware upgrades).

Oppo can be made region free and PAL/NTSC compatible. Most HD DVD players also suffer from 1 and 2 above.

If you are dead set against PS3, then I would recommend that you wait a couple months and look at Samsung 5000 dual format player. MSRP is $799 but should drop pretty quickly and it is the one of three players (others being PS3 and LG 200) that can be made BD profile 2.0 compatible.
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post #30 of 46
12/6/07 at 11:20pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by xradman View Post

...If you are dead set against PS3, then I would recommend that you wait a couple months and look at Samsung 5000 dual format player. MSRP is $799 but should drop pretty quickly and it is the one of three players (others being PS3 and LG 200) that can be made BD profile 2.0 compatible.

Or do like me and wait to see what new players are introduced at CES in January. Was set to treat myself to a BluRay or HD-DVD player this Christmas and after looking at every model and all of the issues associated with them, it's better to wait another generation.

Oppo 980 arrived at my home yesterday.
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