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The new C3X1080 review. - Page 5

post #121 of 877
coldmachine,

How's the c3x compare to your ht5000?

thanks
Mike
post #122 of 877
Quote:
Originally Posted by thebland View Post

My screen frame came in at 200" wide (outer diameter). My room measures 203.5" to the drywall (had to remove acoustical material and covering around frame as it subracted another 2" of room width!.

Thank goodness, there is no bigger screen in my future (but I made sure I maxed out my room)....

Bland:

You went with the Vistascope, 14' wide?

I thought the width of the frame only added 18", that is what the Stewart documents say, the actual is 32"?
post #123 of 877
Quote:
Originally Posted by LJG View Post

Bland:

You went with the Vistascope, 14' wide?

I thought the width of the frame only added 18", that is what the Stewart documents say, the actual is 32"?

The width of the frame adds 32" to the image size. It is a 2.40 screen. That is the spec for the screen / Vistascope. It is very slick.
post #124 of 877
Thanks, Stewarts web site is wrong then, the PDF states frame dimensions: Width = Image width = + 18.


EDIT: Just Re-Read the PDF image width + 18" on the standard 10' wide screen, I guess on 14' wide an additional 14" of width is required on the frame.

Word to the wise is verify the dimensions on the exact screen you plan ot order
post #125 of 877
Quote:
Originally Posted by coldmachine View Post

On power up, with no input selected, black level was noticeably black, no hand puppets here.

I think this comment is going to give people unrealistic expectations. There are most definitely hand puppets, as there are with any digital projector.
post #126 of 877
Quote:
Originally Posted by QQQ View Post

I think this comment is going to give people unrealistic expectations. There are most definitely hand puppets, as there are with any digital projector.


cinemascope screen+lens helps a lot in that department.
no black (dark grey) bars as immediate reference
also no black frame (velvet) helps too: a wrapped around scope screen (curved )

just did one last weekend.
LL
post #127 of 877
One can't order a Stewart screen without signing a set of engineering drawings which specify ALL dimensions. The dealer gets the drawings and signs off. Stewart won't build the screen without the drawings signed.
post #128 of 877
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post

One can't order a Stewart screen with out signing a set of drawings which specify ALL dimensions. The dealer gets the drawings and signs off. Stewart won't build the screen without the drawings signed.

Pretty sure that didn't happen with me Mark.

Art
post #129 of 877
Art. I have sold many hundred Stewart screens. I have lost count. Most of my customers never see the drawings. I sign them. My guess would be you ordered from a dealer, one not near you. They got drawings and signed off. Stewart won't make it without drawings and the customer or dealer must sign off.
post #130 of 877
Quote:
Originally Posted by QQQ View Post

I think this comment is going to give people unrealistic expectations. There are most definitely hand puppets, as there are with any digital projector.

I had no hand puppets. Having said that, i didn't wait for ages to acclimatise my night vision, so there may well be after that. The black level was better than I've seen before. I think most people understood the spirit of the comment. Other people who've used or seen it report similar.
post #131 of 877
Quote:
Originally Posted by MC6 View Post

coldmachine,

How's the c3x compare to your ht5000?

thanks
Mike

Ive had very little time with the C3X1080.........PQ looks about the same (it almost pointless saying that as the current Sim2 line are all showing amazing PQ) but the 1080 has noticeably better blacks, would need to compare and test to give cr figures. 5K has superior input section, but a HOST 1080 would negate that. The 5k has more lens options so is more install tailorable. The zoom lens on the 5k is a different class and avoids every issue with zooms almost entirely, some machines can have some light spill at the zoom ends, so I'll check that. The VP is identical. MC is stellar on both. I haven't had time to see its proper performance yet but will soon

The 5k is better for larger screens, not just in terms of brightness but uses a straight through, rather than folded light path. This transmits more light and as the image gets bigger is clearer ( I've never had a clarity issue on any of then anyway, so?) I dont know if im misremembering but there is still something extra to the 5k. That could be wrong so don't put too much stock in it.

New HT5000's will appear with DC4s at some point so the 5k will be safe for a while yet. The 2 lamp version is due soon too.
post #132 of 877
Quote:
Originally Posted by coldmachine View Post

PQ looks the same but the 1080 has noticeably better blacks, would need to compare and test to give cr figures. 5K has superior input section, but a HOST 1080 would negate that. The 5k has more lens options so is more install tailored. The zoom lens on the 5k is a different class and avoids every issue with zooms almost entirely. The VP is identical. MC is stellar on both

The 5k is better for larger screens, not just in terms of brightness but uses a straight through, rather than folded light path. This transmits more light and as the image gets bigger is clearer ( I've never had a clarity issue on any of then anyway, so?)

New HT5000's will appear with DC4s at some point so the 5k will be safe for a while yet. The 2 lamp version is due soon too.

i've recently seen the HT5000. ugly demonstration at a shop in Brussels.
white ceiling, white back wall (ouch !): black bars where like early lcd...
bad ansi contrast too. the room and bad settings killed this (i'm sure) great machine (though overpriced compared to a pana 10000 2K for instance with which one can do a 10meters screen if he wants, or close)

really, a bad demonstration can kill a machine. it's a shame to present so badly a projector (and lol the screen was only 230cm or so, for a EUR 50K machine !).
the demo at ISE in Holland in February was so much better: probably a 4meters screen and a blu ray. punchy, great ansi. (it was with a lens too, scope)

i'm sure yr HT5000 in yr black cave Art gives you lots of pleasure though.
post #133 of 877
Cold, many of us would love to see a few screen shots when you get time could you do a few to compare with the 380. I realize the short comings of this but it would still be interesting. What is the smallest size screen and gain you would go with the 1080 C3X ? Thanks Greg
post #134 of 877
Quote:
Originally Posted by Digital2004 View Post


i'm sure yr HT5000 in yr black cave Art gives you lots of pleasure though.


As the post was in response to me,that sentence can be a rather scary read.
post #135 of 877
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post

Art. I have sold many hundred Stewart screens. I have lost count. Most of my customers never see the drawings. I sign them. My guess would be you ordered from a dealer, one not near you. They got drawings and signed off. Stewart won't make it without drawings and the customer must sign off.

I've purchased three myself without a drawing,so although it is a formality apparently it seems to have not saved more than a few who got a screen the wrong size for the opening.

Art
post #136 of 877
Quote:
Originally Posted by Digital2004 View Post

i'm sure yr HT5000 in yr black cave Art gives you lots of pleasure though.


Yes it does. I love the darn thing. It does so many things well. Of course not CRT blacks, but I looked at it with a variety of material before purchase and head to head against my stack and after I did not want to go back to my CRTs despite the superior on off. I will look foward to even better performance in that parameter but in the mean time I have the best video images in my home that I have ever seen.

Art
post #137 of 877
I'm going to post this review from my meet at the end of September...

Pseudo Mini Review...

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

All,

I wrote a pseudo-review of my incredible experience at Art's meet this year and posted it for the CRT crowd over at Curt's site. My point for writing it for those guys was to relate what an absolutely amazing image the new setup produces, and in the process, maybe quiet some of the nay-sayers that couldn't understand Art's decision to ditch the stack (the stack was awesome by the way).

I also knew there were more than a few people over here who couldn't make it. If you couldn't make it, you most certainly wish you had been able to and would undoubtedly love to hear more about Art's incredible system. This repost is for you. I edited a few things for clarity, but didn't change any content in any significant way.

Keep in mind I love CRT and posted for the CRT crowd, so consider the context for which a few of the comments were originally intended. Absolutely NO disrespect is intended - Art's system is simply breathtaking.

Taking my seat
We walked in and found a seat in the front row. I took the end seat and gave my buddy the seat left of center since I'd been there before. Right away, I noticed when people walked between the projector and screen, there was a shadow on the screen - even with dimmed room lighting. I immediately started thinking, "Wow, are the blacks going to suck THAT much?!?!?" How would Art tolerate it? Oh well, I'll reserve judgement. In hindsight, it could have been a source sending something above black.

Intro
Lights dimmed, projector muted, and screen masked to 4:3, Art started out by telling everybody why he loved HT - basically how his love for going to see movies got him through college and rough days, and how helping his dad buy and set up a Kloss Novabeam hooked him on HT forever. Background out of the way, it was demo time.

Audio
They left the lights dimmed and played a CD track with an acoustic version of Elton John's Candle in the Wind. Guitar and vocals were crystal clear and the sound stage, presence, and transparency of the sound were all exceptional. Excellent definition in the vocal and guitar strings. Great dynamics and a very "open" sound. I'm no huge Elton John fan, but I will pick up that recording. Mark Seaton must have done a hell of a job on the speakers and EQ, because it was definitely up there with some of the best audio I've ever heard. Keep in mind there was no projector or fans whatsoever in the room, so the noise floor was extremely low - as in, close to sensory deprivation chamber low. That really facilitated a quiet acoustic piece like that. That's one thing I REALLY miss in my theater. I suspect a lot of others' theaters are similar to mine.

4:3 Classic
Next up, a Casablanca clip on HD-DVD. The screen is still masked to 4:3, so approximate screen size was about 8x6 feet. Right away, I noticed the excellent bright whites and what appeared to be impeccable greyscale. Damn, Ken Whitcomb does good work. Wow, it's sharp. You can really see film grain and other source artifacts - it is a 65-year old film after all. A rack focus between characters' faces was really interesting. It's been awhile since I watched black and white. There's no convergence or alignment issues visible from the seating position... at ALL. It appears perfect from my seat. Then, I notice just how good the shadow detail was - awesome, actually. Nice black suits with excellent detail, and nice soft transitions into the shadows. Excellent low-IRE reproduction. Next, I notice that all the blacks look really black. The black shadows looked black. Well, that's ANSI... digitals are great there, right? Fine. Grade: A. Let's see some other stuff.

16:9
Next, the side masking opens up to 16:9, which would have been approximately 10'8" x 6'. It's a clip from Corpse Bride on Blu-Ray - where the underworld characters are singing to Johnny Depp explaining how the Corpse Bride came to be. If you've seen this, you know the lighting and color are phenomenal. The stop-action film was shot on Canon D-SLR's, and so is extremely sharp and free from artifacts. So it was on Art's system. Very sharp, very clean, color was punchy. Some of the skeletons dance on black backgrounds, so it's going to suck there, right? Sorry to disappoint some of you, but it was DAMN good. I had to really LOOK for it to find that it wasn't pure black. The lack of black used to ruin the color on lesser digitals. Rich color is one of the things I love about CRT. This SIM2 does rich color. It's gorgeous and the Corpse Bride clips looked beautiful. Uniformity looked excellent, too on a couple of the more solid images. Sound was awesome. The Danny Elfman jazz track was clean, crisp and really popped out at you - just like the on-screen image. Grade: A.

CinemaScope
Next, the masking opens up to 2.35:1 so we're now seeing the 14' x 6' Stewart Vistascope in all its glory. They switch sources and the Cineslide shuttles the ISCO III lens into place in front of the projector. I only knew because Art said so. I must have looked away for second because I missed it. Now, we're treated to a long clip from 300 on HD-DVD. This film is styled and grainy. I still haven't seen the film, but I know from what I've read it's visually stunning. I'm sitting maybe 10' from a 14' wide screen and the image is HUGE. I now have some of the screen and image straight out in front of me (and even to the left a little, even though I'm on the left end of the row). Now, I start to really feel the impact a screen that large has. The graphic title "300" slashes across the screen and it's so incredibly sharp. It looks and sounds awesome. Amazing, in fact. Grade: A+

This screen size is just mind-blowing. It's so bright it's almost too bright during a couple of scenes. Yet, when the Persians are pushed into a deep hole, and the camera follows them into the abyss - the moment I was expecting to say, "Oh, there it is - no absolute black - digital still sucks...", that moment never came. Even fade to blacks, titles on black... in practice, I just never noticed it as a problem. He didn't play Star Wars or something else that was all black all over, but I suspect even in those, there's usually just enough light to close your pupils just enough to make the black look pretty black.

More Impressions
After watching awhile, I did start to notice something... I'm not sure if it's screen door or AT perforations, but it's there and it's distracting me. I have a feeling it was screen door, but very subtle. Perhaps it was exaggerated ever so slightly by the AT perforations. I didn't exactly have to go looking for it, but it wasn't horrible, either. It really bothered me thinking about it, until later when I realized just how incredibly close I was sitting. At 10' from a 14' screen, we're talking .7x screen widths. I would have to sit 5.5 feet from my 8'-wide screen to get the same viewing angle. 5.5 feet! That's insane! I sit 10 feet away! I was damn near TWICE as close to the screen (relatively speaking) as I sit in my theater. Wow.

Even More
Later, we watched some clips from King Kong on HD-DVD and watched the entire Casino Royale (BD). Wow. Breathtaking. Casino Royale was simply incredible. I was watching from the second row at that point - so, probably 16' or 1.1x from the screen. Some of the shots in that movie looked almost like 35mm slides projected on the screen. Background detail that went on and on. Even in the second row, it was still very immersive, but there was no visible pixel structure, no screen door, and no other artifacts. The only time I ever noticed anything from there was some small white type (credits) on a black background. I saw some pixels/lack of resolution. At that screen size, even 1920x1080 yields about 11.42 pixels/inch. There just isn't enough res to render small type well, and it becomes noticeable as the screen size goes up. This is simply a limitation of the source that Art's projector and screen reveals. Still, after sitting in both rows, I think I'd be happiest in the second row of Art's theater.

Just to be clear, I'm being hyper-critical. I'm a designer, photographer, and video guy. I have excellent (corrected) vision, so I can pick out visual deficiencies pretty readily, and I know what I'm looking for and at. I'm a CRT guy and still generally prefer that look over digital. I've seen calibrated Runco's, 909's, G90's, Art's stack, Pearl's, DILA's, DLP's... and everything in between. Still, I love CRT for a variety of reasons. In spite of that, this system simply took my breath away. The 14-foot scope screen was just astounding. I look forward to the day when I can afford a similar-performing system.

That's it. The system is simply incredible - and so was the experience. Congratulations, Art.

Thanks again to Art, Ken, Mark and everybody else who made Art's system possible and huge thanks to Art, Angela and family for inviting a bunch of HT fanatics into their home to share an unforgettable experience.

Back to reality. Sigh.

SC
__________________
post #138 of 877
Quote:
Originally Posted by Art Sonneborn View Post

I've purchased three myself without a drawing,so although it is a formality apparently it seems to have not saved more than a few who got a screen the wrong size for the opening.

Art

Thus my word to the wise, verify the exact screen dimensions of the actual screen ordered and make sure you see the Stewart drawing to sign off on, will save a lot of grief
post #139 of 877
Quote:
Originally Posted by LJG View Post

Thus my word to the wise, verify the exact screen dimensions of the actual screen ordered and make sure you see the Stewart drawing to sign off on, will save a lot of grief

I'd go one step further ,finish the screen wall opening using the assembled screen frame you have in your hands.
post #140 of 877


Assimilation is inevitable...
post #141 of 877
All your base are belong to us.
post #142 of 877
CM:

How many user memory's are available in the C3x 1080?
post #143 of 877
Quote:
Originally Posted by LJG View Post

CM:

How many user memory's are available in the C3x 1080?

6 per input. Each contains all the VP settings including 3 programmable user Aspect Ratios. Thats 18 ARs per input. Each AR can fire a 12v trigger if needed for automated masking, if your system works that way.

This means that each input can be tailored for differing conditions or applications. They are nameable and easily used by a universal remote.
post #144 of 877
Quote:
Originally Posted by coldmachine View Post

Ive had very little time with the C3X1080.........PQ looks the same (it almost pointless saying that as the current Sim2 line are all showing amazing PQ) but the 1080 has noticeably better blacks, would need to compare and test to give cr figures. 5K has superior input section, but a HOST 1080 would negate that. The 5k has more lens options so is more install tailorable. The zoom lens on the 5k is a different class and avoids every issue with zooms almost entirely. The VP is identical. MC is stellar on both

The 5k is better for larger screens, not just in terms of brightness but uses a straight through, rather than folded light path. This transmits more light and as the image gets bigger is clearer ( I've never had a clarity issue on any of then anyway, so?)

New HT5000's will appear with DC4s at some point so the 5k will be safe for a while yet. The 2 lamp version is due soon too.

thanks for info, I should get my c3x 1080p soon and I am going to get a ht5000 when it has the dc4 upgrade.
post #145 of 877
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg Young View Post

Cold, many of us would love to see a few screen shots when you get time could you do a few to compare with the 380. I realize the short comings of this but it would still be interesting. What is the smallest size screen and gain you would go with the 1080 C3X ? Thanks Greg

I currently have it on a 1.3 gain screen, 8ft wide unmasking to 10.5 at 235.

At 8ft 16:9 i have it dimmed, its way too bright on full power, and I'm a 25fL guy. Id say that was the smallest sensible size.
post #146 of 877
Quote:
Originally Posted by coldmachine View Post

6 per input. Each contains all the VP settings including 3 programmable user Aspect Ratios. Thats 18 ARs per input. Each AR can fire a 12v trigger if needed for automated masking, if your system works that way.

This means that each input can be tailored for differing conditions or applications. They are nameable and easily used by a universal remote.


Thanks CM, if that's the case no desire or need for the Host, just a gefen HDMI switcher...
post #147 of 877
Yes, I have the Gefen 6 x 2 HDMI switcher on the way....

now If I could only learn how to program that #%$#% Pronto Professional that has been sitting here for 3 months...
post #148 of 877
Quote:
Originally Posted by coldmachine View Post

All your base are belong to us.

The industrial design of the Tiger 2 tank. The similarities are uncanny.

post #149 of 877
I just received a DVI and spdif to hdmi converter and it just sits there doing nothing. Goof luck with your Gefen product.
post #150 of 877
I haven't had time to finish my C3X1080 review, but preliminary numbers for light output are about 1100-1300 @250watt, iris open. Note that is D65 numbers, I got quite a bit higher than that out of the box. Also note, it is a PITA to calibrate. There is an issue with the service menu that Sim2 is aware of and working at fixing.
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