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The new C3X1080 review. - Page 10

post #271 of 877
I will be checking the throw on the T1 tonight (via actual measurement) so I can confirm. I also have a T2 arriving today or tomorrow so I will check that as well.

Lastly, new camera arriving today, I will post my full review tonight or tomorrow morning with lots and lots and lots and lots of pictures.
post #272 of 877
Quote:
Originally Posted by Art Sonneborn View Post

Sorry ,I've yet to see this projector but here is a nice shot of Serenity using that projector's brother.




Even the most tenuous link and you're in there

Don't blame you. Im going to put up some shots of Renaissance by the weekend. That film is a killer for ANSI. Jet black and nuclear white with very little else
post #273 of 877
Hey I got a question (and you will think it is stupid)...how the heck do you post such large images? I cannot do that it seems through my own hosting site (which I think is the problem).
post #274 of 877
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Turk View Post

Hey I got a question (and you will think it is stupid)...how the heck do you post such large images? I cannot do that it seems through my own hosting site (which I think is the problem).

Jason,
There are default setting on Image Shack or Photobucket but you can check different sizes that are larger. I felt that the clarity of that shot deserved bigger.

Art
post #275 of 877
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Turk View Post

I will be checking the throw on the T1 tonight (via actual measurement) so I can confirm. I also have a T2 arriving today or tomorrow so I will check that as well.

Lastly, new camera arriving today, I will post my full review tonight or tomorrow morning with lots and lots and lots and lots of pictures.

Fantastic !
Art
post #276 of 877
hmmm..... what to do.....?
post #277 of 877
Quote:
Originally Posted by thebland View Post

hmmm..... what to do.....?

At some point Jeff, you going to want a higher light output, higher contrast projector for your new screen. The question is when and what will waiting gain you.



Art
post #278 of 877
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Turk View Post

I will be checking the throw on the T1 tonight (via actual measurement) so I can confirm. I also have a T2 arriving today or tomorrow so I will check that as well.

Thanks for doing that. I wasnt sure if you'd got my pm or not.
post #279 of 877
The C3X1080 is still pretty rare in europe. I just spoke to Sim2 (they did a demo in switzerland today) on the phone and they're still using a sample unit to do their demos. I asked about on/off CR and was told the sample is already at about 7k:1, production units should be better. So I'm curious to hear some numbers from Jason and those who already have one. They've also raised the price in europe, it's 20k pounds in the UK now and 28k in Germany (about $41k ).

Anyway, with the short supply, it looks like it will be a while until I get my hands on one.
post #280 of 877
Quote:
Originally Posted by coldmachine View Post

Even the most tenuous link and you're in there

I should be enbarassed but I'm still impressed with the picture to such an extent. That one in particular has detail in every corner and is just awe inspiring. My CRTs couldn't touch it in high APL performance.

Art
post #281 of 877
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Turk View Post

I will be checking the throw on the T1 tonight (via actual measurement) so I can confirm. I also have a T2 arriving today or tomorrow so I will check that as well.

Lastly, new camera arriving today, I will post my full review tonight or tomorrow morning with lots and lots and lots and lots of pictures.

I hope that T2 is MINE.
post #282 of 877
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephan View Post

I asked about on/off CR and was told the sample is already at about 7k:1, production units should be better. So I'm curious to hear some numbers from Jason and those who already have one.

His review is up-

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=949552

Quote:


Contrast:
Short Throw On/Off, Iris Open: 1753:1
Long Throw, On/Off, Iris Open: 2058:1
Short Throw, On/Off, Iris Closed: 2501:1
Long Throw, On/Off, Iris Open: 2952:1
ANSI Contrast: 667:1
post #283 of 877
How could the on/off be so poor? Why the hell did Sim care about the case size anyway? None of us give a flying **** how small the case is, how stupid... they blame everything, including the positioning and angling of the DMD chips on having no room to work with becasue of the small case... I'm sure its a wondrful projector, but they should have used a slightly larger case... makes no sense to me since several things are blamed on the small case... sheeze. No logic in trying to make it small as possible.... makes no sense.
post #284 of 877
Quote:
Originally Posted by Health Nut View Post

How could the on/off be so poor? Why the hell did Sim care about the case size anyway? None of us give a flying **** how small the case is, how stupid... they blame everything, including the positioning and angling of the DMD chips on having no room to work with becasue of the small case... I'm sure its a wondrful projector, but they should have used a slightly larger case... makes no sense to me since several things are blamed on the small case... sheeze. No logic in trying to make it small as possible.... makes no sense.

Which is why if you were running the company they would be out of business . You also have 8' tall subwoofers IIRC, so size may not matter to you, but it very much matters to the market place. Sim's ability to pull this off is in a chassis of this small size is HUGE and a Coup d'├ętat in the projection industry. It was perhaps above all the size issue that caused CRT to be destroyed by digital projection long before the image from digital projection compared to it, if this unit were twice the size sales would be 1/10 of what they will be with this unit.

Jason's contrast numbers seem low compared (i.e. not as good) to what I have experienced, but I am not going to report any numbers yet as final adjustments have not taken place. Though I did take issue earlier with coldmachines comment that you don't see hand puppets . I'm surprised the brightness numbers Jason quoted for the T2 lens were omitted above. 862 lumens. Flame away .

I will say those who are bothered by his numbers will not be bothered when they plug the unit in, unless they expect to light up a 14' screen with it. The image is to die for. The RS1 is incredible for the money but this is in a different league altogether.
post #285 of 877
Quote:
Originally Posted by Health Nut View Post

How could the on/off be so poor? Why the hell did Sim care about the case size anyway? None of us give a flying **** how small the case is, how stupid... they blame everything, including the positioning and angling of the DMD chips on having no room to work with becasue of the small case... I'm sure its a wondrful projector, but they should have used a slightly larger case... makes no sense to me since several things are blamed on the small case... sheeze. No logic in trying to make it small as possible.... makes no sense.

Well they could of solved this problem with a larger case which even they admit-

Quote:


thing I noted on my projector was a light halo around the image. It is not overscan, as this is literally a round shaped halo, about 12 beyond the image. I talked to Sim2 thinking it was defective, but they said it is caused by the larger chip in the smaller case.

That being said those screen shots in Jasons review sure look good
post #286 of 877
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spizz View Post

Well they could of solved this problem with a larger case which even they admit-

I think that is called the HT5000 . Keep in mind guys, making the unit larger would increase the cost substantially, only one of the reasons being that sell quantity (volume of sales) would be SO much lower if the chassis was big.
post #287 of 877
Quote:
Originally Posted by QQQ View Post

I think that is called the HT5000 .

post #288 of 877
Quote:
Originally Posted by QQQ View Post


Jason's contrast numbers seem low compared (i.e. not as good) to what I have experienced, but I am not going to report any numbers yet as final adjustments have not taken place. Though I did take issue earlier with coldmachines comment that you don't see hand puppets . I'm surprised the brightness numbers Jason quoted for the T2 lens were omitted above. 862 lumens. Flame away .

I will say those who are bothered by his numbers will not be bothered when they plug the unit in, unless they expect to light up a 14' screen with it. The image is to die for. The RS1 is incredible for the money but this is in a different league altogether.

I did address the hand puppet statement. I have to agree with you, the CR numbers are low compare to my own as well, others too.
post #289 of 877
What about Jason's comment about changing to a smaller chip set when they are available. When is that going to happen?
post #290 of 877
It sounds like you're rolling dice. You won't know what your getting until you open the box.

Misconvergence
Halo
Ansi
Contrast
Brightness
T2 Lens - 2.6, 2.48, 2.1 ?? (edited)
????

I agree with Health Nut the box should have more functional than aesthetic.
post #291 of 877
I am sure the smaller size matters to many people. If the choice is C3X size or HT5000 size most will choose the smaller projector.
Perhaps this early on the unit to unit variation is TOO great but soon this will be stable.

coldmaching
What performence do you expect to be the average for C3X1080?
1000-1200 ANSI lumen at D65 at high power and mid zoom and iris open
4000:1 iris closed?

What is most critical is for the product to deliver the expected light output. We know the image will be great but it needs to be bright enough for those wanting this projector for the really big screen.
post #292 of 877
I am very bummed from Jason's review. Seems like nothing lives up to the hype. Those CR numbers are really low, and it really seems like something is off here. I sure hope somehow this is all attributed to the T1 lens.
post #293 of 877
Yea, that does seem real odd. Darin,and Ken measured right around 5000:1 on the HT5000 with the L3.

Art
post #294 of 877
Quote:


I agree with Health Nut the box should have more functional than aesthetic.

Then why not get the HT5000?
post #295 of 877
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohlson View Post


coldmaching
What performence do you expect to be the average for C3X1080?
1000-1200 ANSI lumen at D65 at high power and mid zoom and iris open
4000:1 iris closed?

It is delivering 1100-1300 lumen at D65. My figure was slightly lower than Jasons but same ball park. My cr is a good bit higher as QQQ appears also to have seen.

I was under the impression that Jason had got similar numbers to the HT380, which would be closer to my own, that seems not to be the case. Others I've spoke to have commented on good CR and black levels. I'm slightly puzzled, though i do have my own idea.
post #296 of 877
You all have the T2 lens don't you? He should get my T2 today, so we will see what that reveals.
post #297 of 877
At what point does the actual HT room start to matter in terms of on/off and ANSI CR?

I saw a demo of a Sim2 HT5000 last week in a local shop and I must say I left the shop very underwhelmed. The room almost no ambient light control: a rack of crazy blue leds right next to the screen (which was not very big anyway - 3 meters wide max), light pollution coming from an adjacent room, plus white ceilings... all that effectively killed the supposedly killer ANSI of the HT5K and made a very hard call to judge on/off.

That may be a very extreme case; but I am sure the PQ I saw for the price of a HT5K could be easily beat by a much cheaper projector and a better room. I have a CRT blend in my pitch-black (even the on LED of the giant Genelec sub behind the screen has been "taped") and while I haven't measured ANSI, the image I have looked punchier (as in objects floating) than what I saw last week - and I know the Sim2 kills my setup in ANSI CR.

There's a big discrepancy between Jason's CR numbers and Sim2's published CR numbers (10,000:1 iirc). Sub 10,000:1 at less 1,000 lumens seems to me a bit more LCD than hi-end 3-chip DLP. Could it be something related to the room?

I think the time has come or will very soon come in which hi-end machines need to be benchmarked in an optimal HT to reflect their strengths.
post #298 of 877
Maybe it has something to do with the Halo from the T1 lens. Could that be killing the CR from room reflection when measuring black?
post #299 of 877
bang to buck ratio?
post #300 of 877
Yes...I am becoming more and more convinced there is something wrong with the one I have in. The T2 unit is arriving today so I am going to 1. check on the halo and 2. remeasure the contrast/light output. I'll also check the calibration in the service menu to see what happens.

I'll post an addendum.
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