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The new C3X1080 review. - Page 12

post #331 of 877
Hey Jason, can you measure the (min/max) throw distance on your T2?
post #332 of 877
Rock and roll! Now we're onto something.
post #333 of 877
Nevermind...I experimented with something.
post #334 of 877
Jason,
Do you think there is a quality control issue at SIM2?
What else would explain such a bad unit?
post #335 of 877
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Turk View Post

UPDATE: I have been talking with Sim2 and I personally have come to the conclusion there was something wrong with my original test piece. Why? Well I won't get into specifics, but, I have another here that I am at nearly 6000:1 contrast with. Same gear, same room, same setup, same method, etc... Granted this is a T2, but, I highly doubt that the lens will drop the contrast by nearly 1/2. Further, much of the stuff in the review (which we pulled) that I mentioned, did not occur with this piece. I'll give more information as I have it.

Also PLEASE remember that the numbers I am achieving are in my theater...not a controlled testing environment where the rated specs are done. Also the numbers that I achieve are at true D65 with proper contrast and brightness levels are set. For the heck of it I am going to try something...be back.

Jason that is good to read that the one with the T2 lens is all ok. Is Sim2 going to swap the one over with the T1 lens or as they feel that there are no issues (halo is just a by product of a large chip in small case) that they will not swap it? Especially with the lower contrast you measured?
post #336 of 877
Quote:
Originally Posted by rlindo View Post

Dude lighten up. You of all people should not be so touchy both with your posting here (want me to dig up posts by you where you had a little sarcasm in them? There are plenty but I guess it's OK for you to do) Man...anyway, thanks for posting the actual number. Appreciate it.

BTW I was just JOKING with you. Thought you could see that but I guess I'm not in your special "clique" yet where clear sarcasm is easily seen...sheesh.

You are totally correct. I was out of order, and I unreservedly apologize.
post #337 of 877
Quote:
Originally Posted by coldmachine View Post

You are totally correct. I was out of order, and I unreservedly apologize.

Thanks and next time I'll put a smiley at the end so it's perfectly clear I'm just joking.
post #338 of 877
I just want to say something here to people regarding certain specs. I hope Art, Alan, Jason and some others will chime in too.

People who have never seen a 3 chip machine in action and get caught up in 20,000 cr specs will find this machine, and others of its type, a revelation.

If you have never seen a calibrated D65 24fL image at 5500:1 and 700 ANSI, you honestly cannot imagine the absolute pulverizing impact the image can have. When you have seen it you are truly bitten, and bitten hard.


Also I will have a PR650 CR figure by the weekend.
post #339 of 877
CM,

Having never seen it I obviously do not know but based on what I read it seems as though the effect is like you get with plasma except obviously the different technology, less artifacts and a much bigger image. With my experience with plasma you don't really get huge on/off ratios but the ansi CR really makes the image pop and black to appear darker than it is and all that jazz.

Is this somewhat accurate or is it still different from that?
post #340 of 877
Quote:
Originally Posted by coldmachine View Post

I just want to say something here to people regarding certain specs. I hope Art, Alan, Jason and some others will chime in too.

People who have never seen a 3 chip machine in action and get caught up in 20,000 cr specs will find this machine, and others of its type, a revelation.

If you have never seen a calibrated D65 24fL image at 5500:1 and 700 ANSI, you honestly cannot imagine the absolute pulverizing impact the image can have. When you have seen it you are truly bitten, and bitten hard.

Agreed. Did Sony, JVC, and Sharp. Nothing wrong with those images nor overall performance (other than the issues widely discussed in other threads), but have to admit that 3-chip DLP brings a new dimension to my viewing experience.

Jim
post #341 of 877
Quote:
Originally Posted by Free View Post

How can Sim2 be claiming >10000:1 and shipping machines that, at best, are around 5000:1? They didn't use to inflate specs, is this what they have to resort to, to compete?

If you move off D65 the CR can jump massively. Some people dont mind a white point of say 8000 ( some cant tell the difference) and they may well get far larger. I spoke to my calibrator today, who did my preliminary adjustments, and he expects a proper cal and PR650 readings to yield higher that the 6000 already reported. This was how my H5000 went as well, with the same equipment.

Maybe the madness can subside now
post #342 of 877
Quote:
Originally Posted by rlindo View Post

CM,

Having never seen it I obviously do not know but based on what I read it seems as though the effect is like you get with plasma except obviously the different technology, less artifacts and a much bigger image. With my experience with plasma you don't really get huge on/off ratios but the ansi CR really makes the image pop and black to appear darker than it is and all that jazz.

Is this somewhat accurate or is it still different from that?

I've heard it compared to plasma. I actually find it superior. You are in T.O. take a trip down to AVS and have a look.
post #343 of 877
So I have to assume that the CR I'm seeing with my C3X1080 is somewhere in the same neighborhood (5 - 6k). Quite a difference from my RS1 (which was at max throw to boost CR), but I can tell you I'm not missing it.

I can only reinforce what coldmachine, JlgLaw, Art, Alan and Jason have been saying; I've never seen an image this good. I guess CR isn't everything.
post #344 of 877
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Turk View Post

UPDATE: I have been talking with Sim2 and I personally have come to the conclusion there was something wrong with my original test piece. Why? Well I won't get into specifics, but, I have another here that I am at nearly 6000:1 contrast with. Same gear, same room, same setup, same method, etc... Granted this is a T2, but, I highly doubt that the lens will drop the contrast by nearly 1/2. Further, much of the stuff in the review (which we pulled) that I mentioned, did not occur with this piece. I'll give more information as I have it.

Also PLEASE remember that the numbers I am achieving are in my theater...not a controlled testing environment where the rated specs are done. Also the numbers that I achieve are at true D65 with proper contrast and brightness levels are set. For the heck of it I am going to try something...be back.

More like it !

Art
post #345 of 877
Quote:
Originally Posted by Art Sonneborn View Post

More like it !

Art

I cant believe you missed an opportunity to hit us with some Serenity.
post #346 of 877
Jason Turk
Will you post both lumen and contrast when a review reappears?
What I like about your reviews is that it is everything else constant, that is just projectors are compared.
post #347 of 877
Basically I have to rewrite the whole thing. As I said, much of what was said doesn't apply to this unit.

No Sim2's QC process is NOT faulty. EVERY company experiences some defects...every company. Actually I sell a ton of Sim2 and I can say that they have one of the fewest instances of out-of-box defects I have seen.
post #348 of 877
Quote:
Originally Posted by coldmachine View Post

I've heard it compared to plasma. I actually find it superior.

I agree, it is superior. I actually compared some specific HD scenes on the C3X 1080 versus a 1920 x 1080 plasma. There was no comparison. Of course there are many different makes and models of plasma so I do not claim it to be conclusive, just what I experienced in one comparison.
post #349 of 877
If you are at the low limit of your light meter you can throw the image onto a much smaller surface like a two foot square poster board till you can get an accurate reliable low end with the 0 IRE window then the same with the 100 IRE for on off.

Art
post #350 of 877
Quote:
Originally Posted by coldmachine View Post

I cant believe you missed an opportunity to hit us with some Serenity.

I hate reputations, they are so hard to shake.


Art
post #351 of 877
Art S.
What kind of light output do you get with your HT5000? It sounds like those with the biggest screens might need the HT5000.
If you start with 1200 ANSI lumen and have
- an anamorphic lens
- and lamp aging
you could sink to low in the lumen department.

3DLP at 6000:1 , 700 ANSI cr with perfect color with brightness to spare is nice. I have seen the C3X1080 but it was not a production unit and it was not calibrated and the convergence was slightly off.
post #352 of 877
The convergence is off on production units as well (can't be helped with folded light path), but it still throws a beautiful pic.
post #353 of 877
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohlson View Post

Art S.
What kind of light output do you get with your HT5000? It sounds like those with the biggest screens might need the HT5000.
If you start with 1200 ANSI lumen and have
- an anamorphic lens
- and lamp aging
you could sink to low in the lumen department.

3DLP at 6000:1 , 700 ANSI cr with perfect color with brightness to spare is nice. I have seen the C3X1080 but it was not a production unit and it was not calibrated and the convergence was slightly off.

Around 1800-2000. I had just over 1800. There is a dual lamper coming soon too.
post #354 of 877
the 5000 have about 2000 lumens.

the good thing is they have a professional lens that not lost lumens
when you change the zoom ratio.
post #355 of 877
Quote:
Originally Posted by W.Mayer View Post

the 5000 have about 2000 lumens.

the good thing is they have a professional lens that not lost lumens
when you change the zoom ratio.

The zoom is one of the most amazing things about it. Try explaining that and the 3 chip light path to those who refuse to believe that the cost of a 3DLP light path cannot possibly be more expensive than that of their 3 panel LCOS unit.
post #356 of 877
Calibrated ,1768 lumens(calculated).I'm extremely impressed with the panel alignment on the 5000 as I had stated previously. I said that it had the best alignment of any three panel device I'd ever seen when I looked at it in February and that still has held.

Once again I want to thank Alan and Wolfgang who saw this projector as well and helped guide me.



Art
post #357 of 877
thanks art

i think you have for you screen the best pr. so far.

look at all the hype here that other pr. have.
they talk about 2000 lumens and 10000:1 cr. and than
the found much less than half of it.
no pr. so far have this light output (beside the big prof. units)
together with a true over 5000:1 cr. with high ansi cr. no.
and look about all the talk here about units that may never hit the
market.
if then with long long delay such models are hit the market the unit can not hold the promise what some people had post in the past.

the 5000 is to dim for my big screen.
i have one very very good 3 chip dlp
that have a xenon lamp with very good ansi cr. no.and half the on of cr.
your unit have but to bad i get used to the almost 7000 lumens the pr. have and it will be
hard to step back from this light output.
arround 20 ftl looks so good but may the new 5000 with dc4 that can boost the on of to may true 7500:1 is a option for me "if" this unit will offer at least
4000 lumen.
well a option for me can be to shrink my screen a little bit.
the only thing what i think can improve my picture is much more
on of cr.
double it from todays 2600:1 is may not the big step i am waiting for but
7500:1 maybe.
post #358 of 877
ian
I'm coming from the rs1 as well, intrigued by the sim. I'm so enamored with the jvc's on/off I find it hard to imagine giving up the pleasure of watching dark city with (finally) nearly enough cr. Do you really not miss that?

Also, I have a 10 ft wide CIH setup. Is this pj going to really be an upgrade for such a small screen? Lastly, are you using a lens for 2.35? Does the sim support zoom memories?

Tom
post #359 of 877
Quote:
Originally Posted by tomhahn View Post

ian
I'm coming from the rs1 as well, intrigued by the sim. I'm so enamored with the jvc's on/off I find it hard to imagine giving up the pleasure of watching dark city with (finally) nearly enough cr. Do you really not miss that?

Also, I have a 10 ft wide CIH setup. Is this pj going to really be an upgrade for such a small screen? Lastly, are you using a lens for 2.35? Does the sim support zoom memories?

Tom

When I first got my RS1 I was shocked how bad SD looked on it, including Dark City. I was coming from CRT (and only had an 8' wide screen at the time) but all off a sudden only HD looked good to me. Not so much because of the extra resolution but because the RS1 looked very digital to me (human skin would never look natural to me in SD). I tried various scaling solutions but only pristine titles were tolerable. I just tried a few titles last night (with the Sim2) and was pleasantly surprised. Like Art, I wouldn't use Dark City as a demo, but overall SD images looked a lot more natural - had more depth etc. All this to say that going from an RS1 to a Sim2 for SD is a marked upgrade imo. It's hard to say how a specific title like Dark City would compare between the RS1 and the SIM2 (frankly I don't find it looks good on either thus I'm probably not a good judge).

A dark SD title that I use periodically to test sub/surrounds is Blade 2. When I went from CRT to the RS1 this title looked very disapointing to me. Last night I noticed it looked pretty darn good - I was shocked actually.

I'm getting long winded here, but what I'm trying to say is that while I wouldn't go so far to say that the Sim2 is better than the RS1 on blacks, it's not a world apart either. Yes, the RS1's on/off is better, but if you haven't seen what strong ansi contrast does to bring out detail and depth in a picture, you should.

As for size of screen, mine is 11' wide (2.35:1) so we're not worlds apart either. On top of that, I have a HP (hardly necessary for the C3X1080 and arguably not ideal), but with my RS1 I had to change bulbs after a few hundred hours; it's nice to know I have some room to spare with the C3X1080. It will make a difference on your size screen. You would see MUCH more detail and depth. This is a VERY revealing projector imo.

I have a Prismasonic lens and it's not wide enough for the C3X1080 (because the Sim2's lens is recessed) and I now need to upgrade it. I was stressed about doing this because the Prismasonic offers a pass-through mode which other lenses do not - and I didn't want to have to pay thousands of dollars simply to have a mechanism to move the lens out of the light path for 16x9 material, but I will say that having experimented with the projector's internal scaler, I can compress the image to produce a 16x9 image (with the anamorphic lens in place) without much degredation to the image (i.e. very acceptable).

Yes, the projector has 3 zoom memories per input. I have made 2.35, 1.78and 1.85 ratios.

Hope this helps.
post #360 of 877
3 Zoom memories?
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