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Monster HDMI "Speed Rated" Cables vs. Monoprice - Page 2

post #31 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by ricky_rocket View Post

It makes sense too if you think about it. A purely digital signal (HDMI) means it's a stream of bits or 0's and 1's. The stream of 0's and 1's either make it to the source or they don't. You won't be dropping a 0 or a 1 somewhere along the line with a different brand cable, the signal wouldn't make any sense if that happened and you'd see/hear nothing.

Well, not quite. What ordinarily happens when there's a bit error is that a pixel gets messed up, and this is why a cable will start to cause "sparkles" when it is up around the failure threshold. You won't see "nothing," but will see conspicuous image degradation. If there get to be a lot of bit errors, eventually you will get to a nonrecoverable signal, and see nothing.

What we see, when we test for this sort of thing by using progressively longer and longer cables, is initially a few sparkles; then, more sparkles as the cable gets longer; then, usually, flashing or jumping as the sync signal starts to become erratic; and then total loss of picture. What lengths these various problems will start at will depend on the source and the display, and upon cable quality. Cable quality plays a role in it because the cable's electrical characteristics determine things like attenuation, rise time, skew, return loss, crosstalk, and the like, which affect how much the signal will be altered over any given run; the less degradation of the signal in the cable, the less difficult the task of recovering the bitstream at the display end becomes.

Kurt
Blue Jeans Cable
post #32 of 94
KurtBJC, I agree that sparkles can be an issue for long cable runs. A few years ago I had an issue using a DVI-HDMI 25' cable. As soon as I got everything connected I immediately saw sparkles. Changing the cable resolved the issue. I have not had many issues at 25' going HDMI-HDMI. The best thing to do is test the cable when you get it hooked up. Check for sparkles on a dark scene. If you see them you might want try another cable. The biggest issue is that many manufactures did not follow the HDMI specs correctly and that has been the reason for so many handshake issues and other HDMI problems.
post #33 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkstarmenace View Post

I am a current BB employee. I agree that there is a huge markup on HDMI cables, I'm not one to complain. Like said earlier, one rule in physics is your equipment/item/product is only as strong as its weakest link, why on earth would you put cheap cables. If you could afford the product, you should be able to afford the best cables possible. This is all relative to your equipment. I won't say you need Monster cables for your cable/sat HD box. But I can argue that there is a noticeable difference between a cheap cable and a Monster. A good analogy would be someone who buys a Mercedes/BMW/Jaguar and has an oil change done. Either sacrifices on the oil or just complains about. Seriously, these type of people should just buy a new Corvette or Ferrari and run the lowest grade fuel and cheapest oil. BTW, I am also a mechanic. I have had experience in the store with our HDMI cables. Never once have I seen a Monster returned because it broke or it didn't work. If the customer just didn't need it, that's different. The cheaper cables we sell I get at least a cable a day (overall cables). Even when we have product that goes on display, any of them with Monster never have issues. I have felt cheap cables, and have felt Monster. To me, it's like getting a standard wrench and then comparing it to a Snap-on wrench. I am curious about these monoprice cables, never heard and I can definitely afford. I got money to burn, just to cut one up and see its construction. From the looks online though, I am not impressed one bit. They look similar to cheap cable that comes with boxed product. Just for the record, I am not necessarily sticking up for BB. Just don't ridicule someone for doing there job, a job they are getting paid for. If each and everyone of you owned your business, how much would you mark product up? BTW, every cable I have connected in my setup is a M-series from Monster. I have no issue spending over $100 bucks on cables. I stick to the physics rule. But I will test this monoprice cable in my system, take some photos and then cut the cable up to check it out. I will give results on this thread at a later date.

I will be waiting in anticipation for your monoprice dissection, please post as many pics as you can. I'm curious as well to see how are these monoprice cables put together and what kind of materials used.
post #34 of 94
The guy at CC told my boss he needed a special 120hz HDMI cable for his new 120hz LCD...
post #35 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by himey View Post

The guy at CC told my boss he needed a special 120hz HDMI cable for his new 120hz LCD...

did your boss ask him how the framerate of the tv could possibly be affected by the cable?

kurt (as usual) gives a good clear explanation...
post #36 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by KurtBJC View Post

Cable quality plays a role in it because the cable's electrical characteristics determine things like attenuation, rise time, skew, return loss, crosstalk, and the like, which affect how much the signal will be altered over any given run; the less degradation of the signal in the cable, the less difficult the task of recovering the bitstream at the display end becomes.

Kurt
Blue Jeans Cable

Sounds reasonable. But can we can conclude that a $6 HDMI cable can do all of that just as well as a $100 cable. Or is the Mon$ter $100 cable doing it better ?
post #37 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by ricky_rocket View Post

Sounds reasonable. But can we can conclude that a $6 HDMI cable can do all of that just as well as a $100 cable. Or is the Mon$ter $100 cable doing it better ?

Well, that, of course, is the heart of the question. And the answer, very simply, is that if the $6 cable seems to be doing the job well, it is almost certainly doing the job as perfectly as can be done, and no amount of money spent on cabling will make the picture any better. If, on the other hand, the $6 cable is resulting in sparkles, it is quite possible that spending more on a higher-quality cable will fix the problem.

On that note of spending more money for a higher-quality cable, though: I think that it is a mistake, albeit a common and easily understandable one, for people to assume that the $100 price is necessarily indicative of higher quality. It may be, or it may not be; but product quality and product price don't correlate well in the consumer a/v cable market. It's important to make sure that when a product is being represented as higher quality, you have some real, objective basis for believing that claim.

Kurt
Blue Jeans Cable
post #38 of 94
With the phasing out of analog, expect more disinformation from the news media. An article ran in todays' Atlanta Journal Constitution about the move to HD:

"Cables

You can make do with the cables that come with your TV or your HD cable or satellite receiver. But you should probably invest in a new HDMI cable that carries audio and video signals. This will make hooking up your system much simpler. HDMI cables come in a variety of prices, from $20 to $200. Retailers say the $80 to $100 cables provide clearer pictures."
post #39 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkstarmenace View Post

I am a current BB employee. I agree that there is a huge markup on HDMI cables, I'm not one to complain. Like said earlier, one rule in physics is your equipment/item/product is only as strong as its weakest link, why on earth would you put cheap cables. If you could afford the product, you should be able to afford the best cables possible. This is all relative to your equipment. I won't say you need Monster cables for your cable/sat HD box. But I can argue that there is a noticeable difference between a cheap cable and a Monster. A good analogy would be someone who buys a Mercedes/BMW/Jaguar and has an oil change done. Either sacrifices on the oil or just complains about. Seriously, these type of people should just buy a new Corvette or Ferrari and run the lowest grade fuel and cheapest oil. BTW, I am also a mechanic. I have had experience in the store with our HDMI cables. Never once have I seen a Monster returned because it broke or it didn't work. If the customer just didn't need it, that's different. The cheaper cables we sell I get at least a cable a day (overall cables). Even when we have product that goes on display, any of them with Monster never have issues. I have felt cheap cables, and have felt Monster. To me, it's like getting a standard wrench and then comparing it to a Snap-on wrench. I am curious about these monoprice cables, never heard and I can definitely afford. I got money to burn, just to cut one up and see its construction. From the looks online though, I am not impressed one bit. They look similar to cheap cable that comes with boxed product. Just for the record, I am not necessarily sticking up for BB. Just don't ridicule someone for doing there job, a job they are getting paid for. If each and everyone of you owned your business, how much would you mark product up? BTW, every cable I have connected in my setup is a M-series from Monster. I have no issue spending over $100 bucks on cables. I stick to the physics rule. But I will test this monoprice cable in my system, take some photos and then cut the cable up to check it out. I will give results on this thread at a later date.

Well, BB employee's get discounts on products and I am sure that your price on a M Series cable is no where near 100.00!

BB is going to keep on selling Monster, since there is a huge mark up on those items and thats where they can make up profit margin on other items. But the point of some I believe is that the BB employee's push Monster..I can see if there was proven evidence out there that suggested that pricey cables, help with PQ and Sound.
post #40 of 94
I know of two CC's that strait out lied to a couple of people I know (boss and girlfriend of buddy). One store employee told my boss that the Monster hdmi cable was the only one that was 120hz compatible. Luckily he wasn't taking the LCD home with him so he waited and asked me about it...I ordered the Monoprice cable for him ($7.10 shipped).

So my question is can this be legal? I am no lawyer just angry they can get away with this.
post #41 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by himey View Post

I know of two CC's that strait out lied to a couple of people I know (boss and girlfriend of buddy). One store employee told my boss that the Monster hdmi cable was the only one that was 120hz compatible. Luckily he wasn't taking the LCD home with him so he waited and asked me about it...I ordered the Monoprice cable for him ($7.10 shipped).

So my question is can this be legal? I am no lawyer just angry they can get away with this.

Legal, yes. They are expressing an opinion or information provided by the manufacturer. Personally, I think the manufacturer should be run out of business but I wouldn't blame the CC employees. They simply do what they are trained to do and, for the most part, probably believe what they say.

Read any high end audio magazine review about high end interconnect or speaker cables and you will get exactly the same thing - opinion that flies in the face of all objective evidence. People continue to read the magazines and buy the cables. They also continue to buy products claiming to provide weight loss without life style changes. If it makes them happy then that's OK with me.

We still need to be intelligent, informed consumers even in this day and age.
post #42 of 94
I have lost track of the number of times I have been in Best Buy or CC and overhead the "sales" people flat out lieing to customers. "You need this $150.00 HDMI cable to get True HD", etc.

One time I could not resist when I saw a BB sales dude (probably 18 years old) telling this older couple that had just bought a HD LCD as a Xmas present for their grandson that he would not be able to get HD without the $150.00 cable....I jumped in a told them the truth....i thought the sales dude was gonna burst a pimple.
post #43 of 94
Thread Starter 
Reasonably Priced Monster Cables
--------------------------------
"Super-High Performance" Monster DVI to HDMI cables for up to 92% off:
http://www.accessories4less.com/inde...r+hdmi&x=0&y=0
post #44 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by reincarnate View Post

Reasonably Priced Monster Cables
--------------------------------
"Super-High Performance" Monster DVI to HDMI cables for up to 92% off:
http://www.accessories4less.com/cgi-...chfields=brand

Cheaper than retail erhaps but still quite abit more expensive than Monoprice.
post #45 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by reincarnate View Post

Reasonably Priced Monster Cables
--------------------------------
"Super-High Performance" Monster DVI to HDMI cables for up to 92% off:
http://www.accessories4less.com/inde...r+hdmi&x=0&y=0

Linky no worky...
post #46 of 94
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MitsuDude View Post

Linky no worky...

Like I said above for every action (here) there is a reaction there (Accessories4less). Hopefully they will put the site back up
post #47 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by reincarnate View Post

Reasonably Priced Monster Cables
--------------------------------
"Super-High Performance" Monster DVI to HDMI cables for up to 92% off:
http://www.accessories4less.com/inde...r+hdmi&x=0&y=0

This says it all!
post #48 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by reincarnate View Post

Reasonably Priced Monster Cables
--------------------------------
"Super-High Performance" Monster DVI to HDMI cables for up to 92% off:
http://www.accessories4less.com/inde...r+hdmi&x=0&y=0



Looks like they've decided they need to cash-in on the lower-priced market now, too.
post #49 of 94
what sealed the deal for me was a few things:

1. was engadgets article on "Audiophiles can't tell the difference between Monster Cable and coat hangers"
2. I don't like spending alot of money on cables (even though I can but disagree 100% with the BB employee who thinks "if you've got it why not" theory)
3. beauty is in the eyes of the beholder, if you feel that monoprice does the job and are happy with it then good, you are the one that has to watch the TV not the CC or the BB employee when you get home, if you feel you get a better picture with Monster cables they hey that's your business at the end of the day you are the one that has to deal with it as far as I'm concerned Monoprice and bluejeans are fantastic and until proven other wise with "beyond a shadow of a doubt" testing I refuse to spend tons of $$ on cables.

that's my 2 cents.

http://www.engadget.com/2008/03/03/a...ter-cable-and/
post #50 of 94
I noticed darkstarmenace the BB employee/mechanic never came back with his MONSTER vs MonoPrice comparison. He predicted the monoprice was sub-par and the MONSTER was great. Imagine that... he never responded.



Monster = take advantage of ppls fear cable EXAMPLE: I buy a 50 pack of CD-R. I take the top CD and I burn Metallica - The Black Album and write "THE BLACK ALBUM, STANDARD EDITION" on it. I take the next one off the top and burn Metallica - The Black Album and write "THE ULTRA HIGH SPEED BETTER SOUNDING SCRATCHPROOF THE BLACK ALBUM on it. I bet they still sound the same.
post #51 of 94
Thread Starter 
Its become quite common throughout the many AVS forums for those in the industry to rave about high priced products when they offer no improved performance. The home theater and audio magazines are leading the charge.
A few key battleground areas are:
a) HDMI cables - with the 240Hz (new sticker on package) compatible cables expected,
b) staying with standard definition HDMI based DVD playback at 24p vs. expensive Blu-ray discs and $2,000 obsolete analog output players,
c) proprietary $10,000 music based servers when 1TB hard drives have dropped to $119
post #52 of 94
Wel what about the Honeywell hdmi with leds,anyone have one is it considered high speed? I noticed its not too money at 57.00 for 1.5 ft 63.00 3 ft.
post #53 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by dholmes54 View Post

Wel what about the Honeywell hdmi with leds,anyone have one is it considered high speed? I noticed its not too money at 57.00 for 1.5 ft 63.00 3 ft.

I couldn't find any technical description of what their "chip" does. "cure problems" is hand waving. If it does help things, it would only be needed at lengths greater than 30 feet or so depending on the intended use. There are amplified cables that are fairly reasonable in price that can be used for long runs.

larry
post #54 of 94
I work at Best Buy also, and for sure we do push monster. Supervisor gets mad if we don't push monster b/c Monster gives BB alot of perks and so. We even have a column for Monster Cable% in our sales along with gross margin and so. I hate lying and I can probably understand that car mechanic BB employee, its a psychological thing because he is getting payed to lie, so subconciously he believes it to be true(there were studies done for this behaviour). When I sell the 1000's, which is rarely, I tell the customer that this cable is 120Hz capable, esentially I guess every HDMI cable is. If the customer asks me about the difference between the cables, I usually tell them its all digital, but monster uses more expensive material...never say it necessarily gives better quality. I usually push for the monster 750's, and I do feel bad sometimes, but customer never really asks questions. In my opinion the average customer is lazy and has a lack of knowledge. A customer should realize that as good as BB service can "seem" at times, we have our bias because we are a business with an agenda to maximize profit and reduce costs. I always encourage customers to research and go to avsforums and cnet because we do have a huge bias, like any business because the goal is to make money. BB is a successful store which makes good money and at the end of the day they are a very profitable business.

One thing I was curious about was the amount bandwidth monster claims to offer. In the monster cable they have about 8 pairs of copper conducters, is it not possible for the signal transfer for the Mosnter to be faster than Monoprice or Rocketfish? It doesn't improve quality or refresh rate or response time, but can it generally be more conductive and faster? I was having a huge discussion with a Monster employee the other day, but did not have enough knowledge to prove him wrong. Can you guys shed some light on this.

Alot of respect to all of you guys, especially Kurt, I learned alot from this forum. I usually buy Rocketfish, costs BB employees about 6 bux for a 1m vs. 750 monster 1m is about $36 at staff purchase.
post #55 of 94
that's why I never shop at best buy. Plus I can almost always save a few bucks online. I dont know if best buy works on commission at all, but Sears and Circuit city ( I think ) do. My friend works at sears and I asked him (because I'm in the market for a 50" HDTV) what kind of tv I should get. He said I should get an LCD at first, but when i started listing all the benefits of plasmas he seemed to come to his senses lol. Apparently he gets 5% commission for LCDs vs 1% for plasmas.

hopefully the internet remains a reliable place for people to learn the truth about products. Although I was just reading an article in the paper about how more and more companies are infiltrating review sites and what not.

When I get my tv + blu ray player.... I think im going with monoprice. Thats not to say I don't like monster. I like some of their guitar cables!
post #56 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by thebland View Post

I bought some short Ultra Speed Monster cables ... THey have a tight fit and look far better constructed than the Monoprice. THe 1 Monoprice cable I had experience was loose fitting and failed (sent back). But for $7, what do you expect? THe Monster cables are surely overpriced but they give you no worries re: performance, handshaking and a good fit. This was a piece of mind purchase ad I have had so many HDMI / handshake issues..

I have a 2 meter Mono-Price HDMI cable and it fits very snug... Did you thing about trying another cable?

Been using it for two years almost and no problems.
post #57 of 94
This coming weekend (Dec 20-21) I am having delivered a 61" LED DLP Samsung tv, a Panny BD-30 blu ray, and a Yamaha RX-V663 receiver. I agonized for a long time trying to decide whether to spend big bucks or not on cables.

I finally wound up buying 3 cables from monoprice, HDMI 1.3a, 6' long each, and they were about four bucks each. I still have second thoughts, I hope I did okay, when I decided on the cheaper cables, I asked Monoprice what cables they recommended for this equipment, and these are the wires, so thats what I am going to use. Do you guys think I made the right choice? Most here seem to think the cheaper wires are fine, I hope you guys are right, I am using your knowledge and opinions!

By the way, the cables are the only part of this system that I did NOT buy at Best Buy. I even bought my surround sound system which I have had for about 5 years at Best Buy, but not the cables!
post #58 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by yankeeman View Post

This coming weekend (Dec 20-21) I am having delivered a 61" LED DLP Samsung tv, a Panny BD-30 blu ray, and a Yamaha RX-V663 receiver. I agonized for a long time trying to decide whether to spend big bucks or not on cables.

I finally wound up buying 3 cables from monoprice, HDMI 1.3a, 6' long each, and they were about four bucks each. I still have second thoughts, I hope I did okay, when I decided on the cheaper cables, I asked Monoprice what cables they recommended for this equipment, and these are the wires, so thats what I am going to use. Do you guys think I made the right choice? Most here seem to think the cheaper wires are fine, I hope you guys are right, I am using your knowledge and opinions!

By the way, the cables are the only part of this system that I did NOT buy at Best Buy. I even bought my surround sound system which I have had for about 5 years at Best Buy, but not the cables!

I just bought a 60" Pioneer Kuro Elite 151 Plasma from Magnolia but use Monoprice HDMI cables exclusively. FYI: The November 2008 "Widescreen Review" magazine reviews the 50" Kuro Elite 111 plasma and the reviewer stated, "Changing HDMI cables made absolutely no difference to image quality, whether the cable was free, $6, $100 or much more than $100, the image quality never changed (cable lengths were 1 to 3 meters):" (Widescreen Review Issue 136, page 35).
post #59 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by reincarnate View Post

Monster Technical Quote:
"Featuring exclusive connector technologies and precision-wound conductors, 700HD maximizes digital signal transfer. The payoff: a breathtaking picture, free of common cable-induced artifacts, such as streaks and flashing pixels. Step up to 700HD and experience a level of high definition that’s beyond expectations."
http://www.monstercable.com/productdisplay.asp?pin=3832

Who thinks these Monster Cables are "free of common cable-induced artifacts"?
As most cable subscribers have undoubtedly seen, cable company induced artifacts are from programs which have been downsampled from their original data rates. This is the major source of artifacts in cable broadcasts. (Shame on the industry here too)
So how can any cable claim to restore the missing data and eliminate these artifacts? Is it like an mp3 restorer?
Inquiring minds want to know!


update: fixed typos with added good humor

You totally hit it right on the head....It's all marketing......Besides, isn't it funny how you really only find Monster cables in Best Buy's, and Ultimate electronics stores? Who wants a teenager to tell them about what they came to look at........I had a "teenage electronics wiz-kid" at Best-Buy tell me the other day that PIONEER ELITE series T.V.'s were the best because if the glass panels have any bubbles or imperfections in them......they use them in the KURO's.....so according to him KURO's are the budget line.....???? Hah! what a joke.......High school help.......Isn't that why Circuit City is going under?
post #60 of 94
I recently went to some Audioquest training and they had some good info on their HDMI cables.

www audioquest.com/pdfs/aq_cable_theory.pdf
Another good tidbit of info, Monster's 1000 HDMI is rated at 10.2 Gbps, Audioquests A series (their cheap ones) are rated at 15 Gbps. I think HDMI 1.3 will only support up to 20 Gbps
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