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Official NAD T175 Surround Processor - Page 3

post #61 of 4751
"NAD and PSB are sister companies. Paul lent a hand in tuning Audyssey for NAD and that is a very good thing as he is an expert in correlating subjective and objective data. "

Thanks, that is good news.

"I don't know, do you know what "card-based" means? Have you seen the back of this machine?"

I see removable connector panels, none of which span the full height of the unit, so if there are cards behind them, they didn't incorporate them very efficiently.

"Noah, do you have anything nice to say ever any more about anything or have you just decided that bitching about everything is the way to go? "

Could be.

Besides the reasons I gave for my frustration in the NAD thread, I am irritated by the continued assertions of the NAD's upgradability with still no evidence to support it other than the obtuse response you just gave.

Maybe NAD will be different, but I also have a sore spot about "upgradable" products in general, where the track record has been one of promises often unfulfilled, and prices so high that one could buy a nonupgradable one with the new technology for less total outlay.

Gear mentioned in this thread:

post #62 of 4751
Quote:
Originally Posted by noah katz View Post

I see removable connector panels, none of which span the full height of the unit, so if there are cards behind them, they didn't incorporate them very efficiently.

You're looking at the T785 receiver. The boards would take up the full height of the T175. Now think about the fact that the boards are the same size, but are inserted into three units of different heights. Interchangeability.
Quote:



Besides the reasons I gave for my frustration in the NAD thread, I am irritated by the continued assertions of the NAD's upgradability with still no evidence to support it other than the obtuse response you just gave.

"Modular chassis" isn't evidence?!? 6 removable cards clearly visible isn't "evidence"? Were you on the OJ jury?
Quote:



Maybe NAD will be different, but I also have a sore spot about "upgradable" products in general, where the track record has been one of promises often unfulfilled, and prices so high that one could buy a nonupgradable one with the new technology for less total outlay.

There is a difference between "upgradeable" and "will be upgraded" or "will be upgraded cheaply". The unit *is* upgradeable, but we can't be 100% sure it *will* be or that it will be at a price you like *but* the fact that they are cards (and that it is NAD, not Theta or Meridian) makes it much more likely that it will be not only upgraded, but that it will affordable. The T175 costs less than most Meridian/Theta upgrades, so they can't charge $1500 for a board and get away with it like others do.
post #63 of 4751
"You're looking at the T785 receiver."

I looked at the 175 pdf linked in post #48.

""Modular chassis" isn't evidence?!? 6 removable cards clearly visible isn't "evidence"? "

Where is the info you keep referring to? None of the words "modular", "cards", or "upgradeable" appear in the press release in the 1st post.

The most definitive info I've seen is from uzun: "I got a little information via a phone call to NAD....I don't see ANY mention that it uses replaceable cards at all, I don't think that's the case."

If NAD told you these things, will you please say so? As it is, these references just seem to materialize out of thin air, like the now quantified number of cards.

Thanks
post #64 of 4751
Quote:
Originally Posted by noah katz View Post

I looked at the 175 pdf linked in post #48.

Ah. Then notice that they're just laying the cards on their sides instead of vertically so they can have a lower profile. In the T785/T775, the cards are vertical on one half the chassis and the amps are on the other half. By laying them sideways, they can make the preamp smaller and thinner and move electronics to where the amps would have been in a receiver. What's the issue? Besides random complaining?
Quote:



Where is the info you keep referring to? None of the words "modular", "cards", or "upgradeable" appear in the press release in the 1st post.

Look at the T785 info which shares the same cards and design - "Upgradeable Modular Chassis". Hey, you can believe or disbelieve whatever you want. It doesn't change reality. The unit *is* upgradeable *and* modular. I dare you to buy something else rather than bitch about it.
Quote:



The most definitive info I've seen is from uzun: "I got a little information via a phone call to NAD....I don't see ANY mention that it uses replaceable cards at all, I don't think that's the case."

Yeah, well, I saw it. It clearly looked like cards that screwed into the back to me. Of course, I didn't realize that I had to *prove* it to anyone or I'd have stolen a board or taken better photos or something.
Quote:



If NAD told you these things, will you please say so? As it is, these references just seem to materialize out of thin air, like the now quantified number of cards.s

I did say it.
post #65 of 4751
"I did say it. "

I didn't see that, and by now I've read this thread through a couple of times.

"Yeah, well, I saw it. It clearly looked like cards that screwed into the back to me. "

You saw what? The cards, or covers on the back that to you looked like they could have cards behind them.

Simple yes or no question: Did NADs say somewhere or tell you that the 175 has cards?

Thanks
post #66 of 4751
Quote:
Originally Posted by noah katz View Post

I didn't see that, and by now I've read this thread through a couple of times.

Where do you think I got the info? That I just make this stuff up?
Quote:



You saw what? The cards, or covers on the back that to you looked like they could have cards behind them.

You make it hard not to be tremendously sarcastic. The back of the unit had 5 or 6 slots that were filled with a flat panel. Each panel had about 6-12 inputs/outputs on them and a screw above and below to hold it to the back. Now, what do *you* think is behind the plate?
Quote:



Simple yes or no question: Did NADs say somewhere or tell you that the 175 has cards?

Both. I can draw you a picture if you like.
post #67 of 4751
I spoke with NAD today and they said the projected release date is now February 2007.
post #68 of 4751
Receiver seems quite nice but pretty pricey with about a 60% price increase over their previous top of the line receiver.
post #69 of 4751
definitely not more expensive than the master series M15?
post #70 of 4751
Quote:
Originally Posted by shadow 8 View Post

Receiver seems quite nice but pretty pricey with about a 60% price increase over their previous top of the line receiver.

The predecessor was the 163 for $1500MSRP IIRC. This one retails at $2000 from most of the things I've seen. Still a bit of a mark up, but I knew there would be some with that automated audyssey system and HDMI included in it.
post #71 of 4751
Quote:
Originally Posted by shadow 8 View Post

Receiver seems quite nice but pretty pricey with about a 60% price increase over their previous top of the line receiver.

Not for what you get!!! The T773 was a bargain if you were primarily concerned about ease of use and massive power. You'd have to spend $4K or so to get an equivalent amp section from a Japanese company, optimistically assuming those even have something in the ballpark. Who else has dual toroidal transformers and honest power ratings? The T785 appears to have a similar power amp section *but*, to me, the T785 has the best overall feature/capability set of anything I've seen coming to market any time soon. IOW, the T773 was like a $4K receiver without the bells and whistles for $1800. The T785 is like a $4K receiver *with* all the bells and whistles for $2800. I can't think of *any* receiver at any price I'd rather have than this thing (short of NHT coming out with something to match my speakers).
post #72 of 4751
Quote:
Originally Posted by vikingchris View Post

The predecessor was the 163 for $1500MSRP IIRC. This one retails at $2000 from most of the things I've seen. Still a bit of a mark up, but I knew there would be some with that automated audyssey system and HDMI included in it.

I think the T163 was a bit overpriced, especially in the last year. After all, you could buy the T763 for $100 less and it had the T163 preamp section built in. The T773 was only $300 more for a 7x110W amp built in. Unfortunately, because the T163 was a limited production unit and there are lots of fees involved in building even one of them, it gets spread over far fewer units. We sold 15-20 T763s for every T763 we sold.

The T175, however, is underpriced. And you still get a fantastic 7x110W amp for a mere $800. I think NAD is underpricing the T175 a bit because they know they will sell a lot of them. I think that's the deal.
post #73 of 4751
Once again, as I stated in my previous post, I am not referring to the preamp, (T175) but the receiver. I stand by my opinion that it is a huge price increase and will be a tough sell given its still drab appearance and the competition at lower and higer points. We wiil see...
post #74 of 4751
Quote:
Originally Posted by shadow 8 View Post

Once again, as I stated in my previous post, I am not referring to the preamp, (T175) but the receiver. I stand by my opinion that it is a huge price increase and will be a tough sell given its still drab appearance and the competition at lower and higer points. We wiil see...

You're wrong. Or will be. The T785 will easily outsell the T773. The interest in this piece is through the roof. Thanks to Denon, Onkyo, Sunfire, etc, $2800 is dirt cheap for a flagship receiver and the added functionality is tremendous. The "drab appearance" is a non-issue (even a plus) for people who prefer ease of use and actual capability to flashy looks and gizmos. It is, as far as I can tell, the only receiver on the market to have Audyssey, HDMI and card based architecture, let alone good power in the deal. IMO, it's worth every bit of $4K or $5K compared to most other stuff out there and it will *easily* steal sales from Onkyo, Denon, Pioneer Elite. I've been doing retail for over 15 years and this is arguably the best, coolest, most competitive product NAD has ever put out.

My point that I really didn't completely finish was that the T773 was a $1500 amp with a $1000-$1500 preamp for $1800. The T785 is a $1500 amp with, IMO, a $3000-$4000 preamp built in for $2800. IOW, the $1000 upgrade in costs gets you more like $2000-$2500 improvement in capability.

Another thing to keep in mind - the T775 is $2300, I believe which offers a lower priced choice with the same impressive capabilities. That means either 80W/ch x 7 or about 110W/ch x5 for those that don't need 7-channel. This means that it's not like people are *forced* to spend that much to get those features. On the other hand, you can spend $3500 or $4500 and get the T175 separate power amplifier. So that makes the T775 and T785 seem that much more reasonable, now doesn't it?
post #75 of 4751
I was going to get a T773 but my local store sold the there last floor model on me. So he said he will give me a deal on the new T785. Would you guys think I should wait and get the T785 or get the Adcom reciever ? I'm upgrading from a Outlaw 950 and Adcom GFA-6000. Im using NHT ST-4s, SC-2, HDP-2's, and the U1 sub. I just sold my old set-up on ebay and I dont mind waiting ifs it going to be worth it. The store said they would give me a Sherwood R-965 to use intill the new T785 comes in. Do you guys think the T785 is going to be the best for the money ?
Thanks for all the help.
post #76 of 4751
If you're not in a hurry, wait for the T785. Me personally, I'm waiting for the T175. I currently have a T763, but I want to upgrade to the T175 and the M25 power amp.
post #77 of 4751
Quote:
Originally Posted by tht1guyinwi View Post

I was going to get a T773 but my local store sold the there last floor model on me. So he said he will give me a deal on the new T785. Would you guys think I should wait and get the T785 or get the Adcom reciever ? I'm upgrading from a Outlaw 950 and Adcom GFA-6000. Im using NHT ST-4s, SC-2, HDP-2's, and the U1 sub. I just sold my old set-up on ebay and I dont mind waiting ifs it going to be worth it. The store said they would give me a Sherwood R-965 to use intill the new T785 comes in. Do you guys think the T785 is going to be the best for the money ?
Thanks for all the help.

I'd certainly wait for the T785 at this point. OR, better yet, since you have NHTs, keep the Adcom amp and consider the NHT Controller. It has EQ curves and tweaked crossover points to deal with your speakers and integrate them much better. It does wonders for the sound of NHT speakers, aside from the fact that it has most of the other features of the T785.
post #78 of 4751
Quote:
Originally Posted by ripclawsa View Post

If you're not in a hurry, wait for the T785. Me personally, I'm waiting for the T175. I currently have a T763, but I want to upgrade to the T175 and the M25 power amp.

You might just get the T975 amp. Basically an M25 is sheep's clothing for $500 less.
post #79 of 4751
Ya, little less power and now it has the variable fan !!! But what pre-amp then?
I talked to my local dealer and he said the MSRP is $3,000 ?
post #80 of 4751
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alimentall View Post

You might just get the T975 amp. Basically an M25 is sheep's clothing for $500 less.

Thanks, John. I will definitely consider the T975.

Cheers.
post #81 of 4751
Any news on the M15?
post #82 of 4751
Quote:
Originally Posted by tht1guyinwi View Post

Ya, little less power and now it has the variable fan !!! But what pre-amp then?
I talked to my local dealer and he said the MSRP is $3,000 ?

The Controller? $2800 retail, same as a T785. BUT, if you have NHTs, it will make them sound better than with any other preamp or receiver. Mark Russ has posted on how much it improved his ST4s. A little pricey, yes, considering no amps, but it's worth considering since you already have an amplifier. No sense going to a receiver. Or, at least, get the T175, then upgrade the amp later if you feel the need. For someone who doesn't have NHTs, the NAD is a no brainer for the lower price *except* that it doesn't exist yet and may not for several months. Both are upgradeable and should serve most everyone's needs for many many years. I don't get to say that very much.
post #83 of 4751
Quote:
Originally Posted by cecaa850 View Post

Any news on the M15?

What kind of news? It's been out for a good 8-10 months now.
post #84 of 4751
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alimentall View Post

What kind of news? It's been out for a good 8-10 months now.

You are absolutely correct. I meant to ask about the new pre/pro with a newer (or more powerful) version of Audyssey. I'm not sure of the model designation.
post #85 of 4751
That's the T175 under discussion.
post #86 of 4751
I just sold my old Adcom on ebay, guess I will just live the simple life with a T785 and Bi-Wire my ST-4's. If I spend any more then 3g's I will not be doing the Pre/amp justice with my cheap NHT speakers, lol.
Thanks for all the Info - You guys rock.
This is a different subject but do you guys think its worth buying a good SACD player right now? I keep hearing people say its a dying format
post #87 of 4751
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alimentall View Post

That's the T175 under discussion.

Thanks! Time for a re-read.
post #88 of 4751
Reread the post. Makes sense now. If it is ultimately upgradeable to HDMI 1.3, I'm in. Guess we'll have to wait and see.
post #89 of 4751
Quote:
Originally Posted by cecaa850 View Post

Reread the post. Makes sense now. If it is ultimately upgradeable to HDMI 1.3, I'm in. Guess we'll have to wait and see.

It should be upgradeable to that given the modular construction. But 1.2a should do all of the audio formats on the market or foreseeable, so it may never be an issue to be honest. The only advantage of HDMI 1.3 I can see is it's ability to send more color info (but I assume that means better TVs and better sources).
post #90 of 4751
Alimentall, do you think a entry level receiver with pre outs and a nad c272 150x2 would outperform a nad t773 in 2channel?
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