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Denon DVD-2500BTCI owner's thread - Page 2

post #31 of 126
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quetzalcoatl View Post

It does not do everything since the Denon will decode DTS HD MA as well as send it bitstream. And no the Pioneer is not a 1.1 unit. But yes the Pioneer can send both TrueHD and DTS HD MA via bitstream to a 1.3 receiver to decode.


I just think it is funny since one of the selling points for the Denon will be it can decode and send both TrueHD and DTS HD MA and send as PCM. Which the Pioneer can do with TrueHD just not DTS HD MA.

Sorry, I'm still trying to wrap my head around all this. So there's no such thing as "Bitstream Bypass" -- all native digital signals get converted to PCM? The salesman was BS-ing me?
post #32 of 126
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete View Post

Sorry, I'm still trying to wrap my head around all this. So there's no such thing as "Bitstream Bypass" -- all native digital signals get converted to PCM? The salesman was BS-ing me?

Where there is no such thing as bitstream bypass no not all signals get converted to PCM. They are either sent as a bitstream or as PCM once converted. What they are doing with this term is making things harder than they need to be.

And as I said it is funny since this will be the first Blu-ray player on the market to be able to convert DTS HD MA to PCM to send to a older receiver. Yet that person is claiming that is what the others are doing and it is not. They in my opinion are downplaying the greatest strength of this player and that is DTS HD MA decoding.

But yes the salesman is feeding you a line. And there are other players that can send the signal bitstream right now of all avail codecs. The panasonic 30 the Samsung 1400 and the Pioneer 95. So saying they will be the first is a out and out lie. The Samsung gets that title. And for they to say that the other players decode the signal to PCM the Panasonic does not even have decoders that will do anything above DD and DTS core. Not sure about the all the specs on the 1400 but I think it can decode TrueHD and send as PCM if you wish it too. But I know it cannot do anything with DTS HD MA except send it as a bitstream. And the Pioneer can decode TrueHD and send it as PCM if you wish it too. But can only send DTS HD MA as bitstream.
post #33 of 126
Thanks Dan... I thought I was going to have to get the more expensive one to decode DTS HD internally but the 2500 will do just fine.
post #34 of 126
Quote:
Originally Posted by shamus View Post

Thanks Dan... I thought I was going to have to get the more expensive one to decode DTS HD internally but the 2500 will do just fine.

Anybody care to educate me on why I might want the higher end model?
I dont need the analogs.
What advantages does having the Realta chip do besides upconvert standard DVD's?
post #35 of 126
Quote:
Originally Posted by shamus View Post

Anybody care to educate me on why I might want the higher end model?
I dont need the analogs.
What advantages does having the Realta chip do besides upconvert standard DVD's?


If you donot need the analogs the only reason I could come up with is you have money to burn.
post #36 of 126
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete View Post

The interesting part is this: He said that these two players would be the only ones on the market so far to have
"Bitstream Bypass". This means they can output HD audio natively. All other players convert HD audio to PCM for the HDMI outputs -- even those with HDMI 1.3. Where this comes in handy, he said, is when you combine these players with a Denon AV receiver that has all the HD audio formats...those models being the AVR-2808CI and higher.

Complete nonsense. I've been doing this with a Samsung 1400 for 2 months already. There are other players out that can do it too.
post #37 of 126
Quote:
Originally Posted by tai4de2 View Post

Complete nonsense. I've been doing this with a Samsung 1400 for 2 months already. There are other players out that can do it too.

And the Panny 30k does it perfectly as well.
post #38 of 126
Quote:
Originally Posted by shamus View Post

Anybody care to educate me on why I might want the higher end model?
I dont need the analogs.
What advantages does having the Realta chip do besides upconvert standard DVD's?

Does the Realta "process" the HD signal (no doubt it will do DVDs)?
I can see an advantage to this.
Not all BDs have perfect video.
post #39 of 126
Quote:
Originally Posted by tai4de2 View Post

Complete nonsense. I've been doing this with a Samsung 1400 for 2 months already. There are other players out that can do it too.

I'm no expert, but could it be that the distinction the dealer was trying to make had to do with the HDMI output? In other words the new Denon's are the only units so far that can output native digital audio via HDMI. All others convert to PCM?
post #40 of 126
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete View Post

I'm no expert, but could it be that the distinction the dealer was trying to make had to do with the HDMI output? In other words the new Denon's are the only units so far that can output native digital audio via HDMI. All others convert to PCM?

No. The Samsung 1400 and Panasonic 30 (are there others?) can output the raw audio stream for decoding by a compatible receiver.

There's no interpretation I can see that makes the salesman's statement anything other than blatantly false.
post #41 of 126
Weird that player only have HDMI out.... isn't the DVD standard suppose to include Component, Video / SVIDEO out too?
post #42 of 126
Dan,

Whats the MRSP on these units ?

Thanks
post #43 of 126
Quote:
Originally Posted by tai4de2 View Post

No. The Samsung 1400 and Panasonic 30 (are there others?) can output the raw audio stream for decoding by a compatible receiver.

There's no interpretation I can see that makes the salesman's statement anything other than blatantly false.

Just to be clear..when you say "raw audio stream" you are including all the HD Audio formats? And PCM doesn't qualify as "raw", right?
post #44 of 126
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete View Post

Just to be clear..when you say "raw audio stream" you are including all the HD Audio formats? And PCM doesn't qualify as "raw", right?

He simply means sending any audio CODEC, be it DTS-HD MA, TrueHD or any of the lossy formats, from the disc straight to the AVR via HDMI 1.3. As others have mentioned, there are already some Blu-ray and HD DVD players that do this.
post #45 of 126
Quote:
Originally Posted by ryoohki View Post

Weird that player only have HDMI out.... isn't the DVD standard suppose to include Component, Video / SVIDEO out too?

Well, it is called a "transport" after all. While it does play BDs, its primary purpose is to send, or "transport" if you will, audio/video signals as they are on the disc without sophisticated processing or digital-to-analog conversion.
post #46 of 126
Pretty cool looking unit. And nice simple back panel w/ just 1 HDMI output. Has all you really need when coupled to newer 1.3 receivers or pre-pros. Especially ones that incorporate a Reon chip for SD sources (Onkyo/Integra). Big question for me is - how speedy will this unit be w/ SD DVD's vs. the 3930? I'm talking menu navigation, chapter skipping, FF, REW, etc. ? And will the SD layer change continue to be seamless as well (I assume it will). This could be the unit
post #47 of 126
Quote:
Originally Posted by tai4de2 View Post

No. The Samsung 1400 and Panasonic 30 (are there others?) can output the raw audio stream for decoding by a compatible receiver.

There's no interpretation I can see that makes the salesman's statement anything other than blatantly false.

The and others there on the Blu side is the Pioneer 95. But as you said it is false. I will say it abit more directly it is a lie.
post #48 of 126
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by goenkar View Post

Dan,

Whats the MRSP on these units ?

Thanks

MRSP $1149 for DVD2500BT and $2495.00 Denon DVD3800BD
post #49 of 126
Quote:
Originally Posted by dan_r View Post

MRSP $1149 for DVD2500BT and $2495.00 Denon DVD3800BD

Talk about a premium for the other conections as well as the upconverter. Ouch!
post #50 of 126
What about the fact that the new Onkyo 885/Integra 9.8 processor and their receivers don't process a native 1080p signal with the Reon. So unless I'm missing something, we will just be getting the raw 1080p thats on the disc with absolutely no processing, since the Denon transport won't touch it, and the Onkyo/Integra units won't, either. Don't other BD players add at least some kind of processing to the video?
post #51 of 126
Can this unit be purchased anywhere right now?
post #52 of 126
Quote:
Originally Posted by dan_r View Post

MRSP $1149 for DVD2500BT and $2495.00 Denon DVD3800BD

IMO, the 2500 must have a street price < $1k and the 3800 must be < $2k.
Otherwise, I think these 2 players are non-starters.
And yes, I do like Denon products very much.


Quote:
Originally Posted by eulogytool View Post

What about the fact that the new Onkyo 885/Integra 9.8 processor and their receivers don't process a native 1080p signal with the Reon. So unless I'm missing something, we will just be getting the raw 1080p thats on the disc with absolutely no processing, since the Denon transport won't touch it, and the Onkyo/Integra units won't, either. Don't other BD players add at least some kind of processing to the video?

It would be nice if the Reon could "process" 1080p.
One the other hand, you could send a 1080i signal from the player to the Reon.
Oops, I forgot that BDs are encoded at 1080/24p....that could be a problem when sending to a Reon.

IIRC, the 9.8 and 885 will pass-thru 1080p.
post #53 of 126
Quote:
Originally Posted by eulogytool View Post

What about the fact that the new Onkyo 885/Integra 9.8 processor and their receivers don't process a native 1080p signal with the Reon. So unless I'm missing something, we will just be getting the raw 1080p thats on the disc with absolutely no processing, since the Denon transport won't touch it, and the Onkyo/Integra units won't, either. Don't other BD players add at least some kind of processing to the video?

According to the product sheet, the transport does do video processing for interlacing/de-interlacing and scaling for compatibility with the vast majority of consumer setups. It's just that it won't likely be on the level of the Realta in terms of de-interlacing and scaling performance.

I think Denon's justification for calling this a "transport" is that everything is sent digitally, and that it is best at delivering what is on the disc.
post #54 of 126
Quote:
Originally Posted by dan_r View Post

MRSP $1149 for DVD2500BT and $2495.00 Denon DVD3800BD

I had read (a few months ago via CEDIA news release) that the MSRP's were gonna be $1,199. and $1,999. respectively. Guess it changed. For the better as far as the transport goes. But the price is now out-a-site for the 3800
post #55 of 126
Quote:
Originally Posted by eulogytool View Post

What about the fact that the new Onkyo 885/Integra 9.8 processor and their receivers don't process a native 1080p signal with the Reon. So unless I'm missing something, we will just be getting the raw 1080p thats on the disc with absolutely no processing, since the Denon transport won't touch it, and the Onkyo/Integra units won't, either. Don't other BD players add at least some kind of processing to the video?

The 2500 transport doesn't have the Reon (or Realta). But I really don't need it as my Onkyo 885 has one. That I'm not using right now. I'm using the Realta in the Denon 3930. And I really wouldn't want the Reon (Realta) to process my 1080p24 sources anyway. But in the case of SD DVD - I guess you would set the transport to output 480p to the Onkyo 885 pre/pro - which would then use it's internal Reon to upscale the signal to 1080p60 - to be output to the display. Hense even w/ the transport - I could sell my 3930 (W/Realta). Unless I'm missing something here.
post #56 of 126
Quote:
Originally Posted by MSmith83 View Post

According to the product sheet, the transport does do video processing for interlacing/de-interlacing and scaling for compatibility with the vast majority of consumer setups. It's just that it won't likely be on the level of the Realta in terms of de-interlacing and scaling performance.

That is my interpretation too.
There is no way the Denon could send the video "raw" or "unprocessed" unless it ONLY sends a 1080/24p signal straight off a BD.
It would illogical to do so....think of all of the displays out there that CANNOT accept a 1080/24p signal.
Obviously, there has to be an ability to scale.


Quote:


I think Denon's justification for calling this a "transport" is that everything is sent digitally

Agreed.
post #57 of 126
For me the only important thing, is there a difference in PQ when watching a BD on the 2500 vs the 3800. I don't need any analogs or SD upconverting since I have a Denon 4308ci for audio and a XA2 for SD-DVDs.

Since it looks like it will send audio via PCM (for those that do not have new receivers) and most of us here already have something that does a good job with SD-DVDs, I am just not sure how Denon will be able justify the 3800 unless the Realta makes a noticeable difference on the PQ of BD movies.

Hopefully these players will have a startup time that compares with the PS3. I hate having to wait for my XA3 to boot up.
post #58 of 126
somebody at the bluray forum got a hold of the pdf specsheets for the denon players. looks like the 2500 will internally decode all the advanced audio codecs. pretty sweet for those like me that have hdmi 1.1-1.2 receivers. only missing the realta for sd dvds. but i'm sure its still great upconvert quality.

 

DVD2500BT specsheet.pdf 206.4501953125k . file

 

DVD3800BD specsheet.pdf 251.0126953125k . file
post #59 of 126
The 3800 is beginning to look more attractive but IMHO much of its appeal will depend on if the Pioneer BDP-LX90 materialises as it would be a serious competitor to the 3800.
post #60 of 126
Quote:
Originally Posted by dan_r View Post

MRSP $1149 for DVD2500BT and $2495.00 Denon DVD3800BD

Denon's web site now indicates $1999 for the 3800 BDCI.
http://usa.denon.com/ProductDetails/3749.asp
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