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Marantz VP-11S2 - Page 3

post #61 of 1662
Quote:
Originally Posted by coldmachine View Post

That "world's first" BS always makes me smile.

I knew they'd have to drop the price but didn't expect it to be so soon or by so much. Dealer sales numbers are very low. Having said that, the price point is obvious considering the segment.

Does the Sim2 HT3000 Host ship with DC3 or DC4 ? Someone claimed it was DC3 but I assume this is an error and it's DC4 becasue that's what on the Sim2 website specification.

D

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post #62 of 1662
Quote:
Originally Posted by dazzerxxx View Post

Does the Sim2 HT3000 Host ship with DC3 or DC4 ? Someone claimed it was DC3 but I assume this is an error and it's DC4 becasue that's what on the Sim2 website specification.

D

It's DC3, it can be upgraded to DC4 later on.
The only shipping DC4 units to date are the C3X1080 (in the US, supply in europe is still very limited, but you can easily get it in the US) and now the Marantz.
post #63 of 1662
Quote:
Originally Posted by dazzerxxx View Post

Does the Sim2 HT3000 Host ship with DC3 or DC4 ? Someone claimed it was DC3 but I assume this is an error and it's DC4 becasue that's what on the Sim2 website specification.

D

I haven't looked at it recently but was under the impression that it will be DC4 when released. I get the answer on Monday.

Stephan.....You use the present tense for the Host, but it has not been released yet so the fact that the 2 you mention are the only ones shipping has no bearing on the HT3000 Host. It was always a DC4 machine and the late stage developments were done with DC4 chips. I'm unaware of any change, but thats not to say one is not possible. I spoke recently regarding an HT5000 Host and the word was that all Hosts will be DC4.
post #64 of 1662
Quote:
Originally Posted by coldmachine View Post

It was always a DC4 machine and the late stage developments were done with DC4 chips. I'm unaware of any change, but thats not to say one is not possible. I spoke recently regarding an HT5000 Host and the word was that all Hosts will be DC4.

That's new to me, but could very well be the case. Last info I got was, that for now only the C3X1080 is DC4 as there's not enough supply of the DC4. Next would be the HT5k (upgrade), then the rest will follow.
post #65 of 1662
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephan View Post

That's new to me, but could very well be the case. Last info I got was, that for now only the C3X1080 is DC4 as there's not enough supply of the DC4. Next would be the HT5k (upgrade), then the rest will follow.

My info is horses mouth. The HT5k upgrade isnt next on the list either.If you need more info PM me
post #66 of 1662
Quote:
Originally Posted by Catdaddy67 View Post

How many C3X1080ps do you think are out there? Has Ted received his yet?

I know that Ill be looking out for the 11S2. If I didnt already have a 15S1, Id probably be owning an 11S2 already ..at the $15k MSRP. 8)

Not yet. AVS told me last week that Sim2 had not produced any of the colored PJ's yet, but they were about to make them and that there would be a 60 day wait, after making a non-refundable $2000 deposit. It was Jason's opinion that it would not take the full 60 days. If it were not for that already made $2K deposit, I would be looking at the 11S2 specs very carefully, since they are shipping now, cost many thousands less, do not have a lens recess problem for use with the Prismasonic anamorphic lens, and do not seem to have the very limited vertical offset of the Sim2. The main thing I would be looking at is callibrated brightness on my 56 x 132 ST 130 microperf screen thru a Prismasonic Fe1500r at a throw distance of some 21 ft with lens center 6 in above the screen. I suspect that after going through the Prismasonic lens, the extra "pop" of the 3-chipper's advantage over the single chip may not be as dramatic (particularly as the 11S2 now has the DC 4 chip).

But a non-refundable deposit is a powerful incentive, and I expect I will have the C3X 1080P by the time we have an independent measurement of the callibrated lumens of the 11S2.
post #67 of 1662
OUCH on the non-refundable $2k deposit, Ted. Specially being told about a 60 day wait, after you paid it. 8(

It seemed like we were looking at that being ready in November. You should look at the 11S2 anyways. Depending on how bright you want that image, it MIGHT be bright enough for you.

Blacks are more important to me, as I prefer my 117' wide 2.35 image on a .8 gain grey screen with an ND2.
post #68 of 1662
The VP-11S2 is not on Marantz's site yet. The only specs. available are: 800 lumens vs. 600 lumens for the 11S1; and 12000:1 contrast vs. 6500:1 for the 11S1. The 11S2 has 2 HDMI inputs vs. 1 for the 11S1.
post #69 of 1662
I recently picked up the VP11S1, thinking that the 11S2 MSRP was still going to be at 20k. With the new MSRP, I am seriously tempted to sell the S1 and move to the S2. Can't wait to see some reports.
post #70 of 1662
Quote:
Originally Posted by Catdaddy67 View Post

OUCH on the non-refundable $2k deposit, Ted. Specially being told about a 60 day wait, after you paid it. 8(

It seemed like we were looking at that being ready in November. You should look at the 11S2 anyways. Depending on how bright you want that image, it MIGHT be bright enough for you.

Blacks are more important to me, as I prefer my 117' wide 2.35 image on a .8 gain grey screen with an ND2.

In fairness to Richard of AV Science, he told me about the further 60-day delay and Sim 2's requirement for a non-refundable deposit of $2K for the red unit at the same time, and it was with full knowledge of the delay that I proceeded. What changed is in the next week, the Marantz VP11S2 with DC 4, $5K price drop, and current shipping was announced. Certainly nothing that Jason or Richard would have known at the time.

Back in late Oct/early Nov, I posted on this forum describing my just-completed home theater and asked for opinions on the Sim 2 HT 380 and Marantz VP-15S1. The $20K price of the VP11S1 didn't make much sense in comparison to the Sim 2 1080P. After evaluating all the info, I decided that while the C3X 1080P was a financial stretch (made easier by Jason), it made the most sense. Back then, the Ferrari Red C3X 1080P was a 60-day delay, which was OK because the Yamaha RX-Z11 I had on order and the eD 7S450 sub weren't due until late Dec.

Now in Jan, the other gear is here, but it's another 60-day delay. Last week, the C3X 1080P was still the best choice, for me. This week, we have the VP11S2 available for $5K less than the S1, with the DC 4 chip; and the extra performance margin of the Sim 2 1080P over the VP11S1 becomes much smaller with the S2, and with a lower price. If I were starting this today, I'd probably elect for the VP11S2, long throw; particularly if it were shipping immediately. One of the reasons for this change is that with production units of the C3X1080P, the pre-production specs have become much narrower: 1)reduced vertical offset, and 2) reduced throw range for the T-2 lens (but not so much if one is using the maximum vertical offset). It still appears as if I will be able to use the C3X 1080P, but I'm right on the cusp, and also right on the cusp of being able to use my Prismasonic anamorphic lens because of the Sim 2 lens offset. Again, this is the consequence of moving ahead before production is set, but as has been said many times in this forum, we could become paralyized waiting for the next better thing and never do anything. Again, in fairness to AV Science, by moving when I did, I did get the pre-price increase rates. All in all, I'll probably be very happy with my projector when it comes, but while I've been waiting the state of the art has been moving on.
post #71 of 1662
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Whitehead View Post

The VP-11S2 is not on Marantz's site yet. The only specs. available are: 800 lumens vs. 600 lumens for the 11S1; and 12000:1 contrast vs. 6500:1 for the 11S1. The 11S2 has 2 HDMI inputs vs. 1 for the 11S1.

The 11S1 had two HDMI inputs, as does the 15S1
post #72 of 1662
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ted99 View Post

Last week, the C3X 1080P was still the best choice, for me. This week, we have the VP11S2 available for $5K less than the S1, with the DC 4 chip; and the extra performance margin of the Sim 2 1080P over the VP11S1 becomes much smaller with the S2, and with a lower price.

You lost me there... you're comparing a 3-chip DLP to a 1-chip DLP? That's like comparing a car to a motorcycle...

As far as all other specs go, we'll have to see. But I'd really be surprised if it's anywhere close to 10k:1, leave alone more.
post #73 of 1662
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephan View Post

You lost me there... you're comparing a 3-chip DLP to a 1-chip DLP? That's like comparing a car to a motorcycle...

As far as all other specs go, we'll have to see. But I'd really be surprised if it's anywhere close to 10k:1, leave alone more.

I'm not saying that a one chipper is better than a 3-chipper. I'm saying that a new one-chipper with the Dc 4 chip might be "good enough" for a lot less money than a 3-chipper. Until the VP11S2, there weren't any one chippers that met my needs, so I was forced to a 3-chipper. The VP11S2 may not, either, but it wasn't even on the table last week. Cost IS an object for me, and I would like to hit my minimum requirement (14 Ft-L on a 200 hr bulb) at the lowest possible cost.
post #74 of 1662
The info we have from Marantz says that the 11S2 should be 15000:1 contrast and 850 Lumens.

I guess we'll have to wait and see what the real-world numbers will be...
post #75 of 1662
@all

there will be some confusion about SIM2 and the DC4 chip; as an user of an C3X 1080 - one of the first here in Germany - I can say, this unit will use the DC4 chipset; also I have seen the HT3000 HOT - he will also use the DC4;

my advantage will be - as a technical consultant in this area - to have to the most products a deeper look

@ted99
the Marantz 11S2 with DC4 is announced, and as you are writing
"This week, we have the VP11S2 available for $5K less than the S1, with the DC 4 chip;"
please tell me where, because still in Germany we have problems to get the S1 model. I want t do my testing and evaluation

thanks

hhelmut
post #76 of 1662
Quote:
Originally Posted by hhelmut View Post

@all

there will be some confusion about SIM2 and the DC4 chip; as an user of an C3X 1080 - one of the first here in Germany - I can say, this unit will use the DC4 chipset; also I have seen the HT3000 HOT - he will also use the DC4;

my advantage will be - as a technical consultant in this area - to have to the most products a deeper look

@ted99
the Marantz 11S2 with DC4 is announced, and as you are writing
"This week, we have the VP11S2 available for $5K less than the S1, with the DC 4 chip;"
please tell me where, because still in Germany we have problems to get the S1 model. I want t do my testing and evaluation

thanks

hhelmut

Marantz Press Release. Perhaps an attendee at CES can report on whether it is on display?
post #77 of 1662
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ted99 View Post

Marantz Press Release. Perhaps an attendee at CES can report on whether it is on display?

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...=968484&page=3

D
post #78 of 1662
@dazzerxxx

thanks

hhelmut
post #79 of 1662
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ted99 View Post

I'm not saying that a one chipper is better than a 3-chipper. I'm saying that a new one-chipper with the Dc 4 chip might be "good enough" for a lot less money than a 3-chipper. Until the VP11S2, there weren't any one chippers that met my needs, so I was forced to a 3-chipper. The VP11S2 may not, either, but it wasn't even on the table last week. Cost IS an object for me, and I would like to hit my minimum requirement (14 Ft-L on a 200 hr bulb) at the lowest possible cost.

I see, so it's only the specs of the C3X1080 that you need, not necessarily the fact that it's a 3.chip DLP. What exactly are your requirements? On/Off CR, brightness or the DC4 chip itself? Maybe all of the above?

If 1-chip is ok for you, I'd recommend to check out the Projection Design Action Model 3. In my opinion by far the best 1-chip DLP out there, lightyears ahead of VP11-S1 and much better than any 1-chip Sim2. No DC4 yet, but it throws a phenomenal image for a 1-chip. I don't know if it meets all of your requirements, but I think you should give it a try in a demo.
post #80 of 1662
@ Stephan

great, that you also mentioned Model 3 from PROJECTION DESIGN;
_________
"but lightyears ahead of an VP11-S1 and much better than any 1-chip Sim2"
_________

sorry I really cannot agree. the Model 3 is not bad for a single chip, but do a comparison side by side with the other model, than you will see, that every projector will have its cons and pros and doing a ranking the HT3000E will beet the Marantz S11 and than comes the Model 3 in my eyes.

hhelmut
post #81 of 1662
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephan View Post

I see, so it's only the specs of the C3X1080 that you need, not necessarily the fact that it's a 3.chip DLP. What exactly are your requirements? On/Off CR, brightness or the DC4 chip itself? Maybe all of the above?

If 1-chip is ok for you, I'd recommend to check out the Projection Design Action Model 3. In my opinion by far the best 1-chip DLP out there, lightyears ahead of VP11-S1 and much better than any 1-chip Sim2. No DC4 yet, but it throws a phenomenal image for a 1-chip. I don't know if it meets all of your requirements, but I think you should give it a try in a demo.

I need 14-15 Ft-Lamberts at D65 on a 51 sq ft 1.3 gain microperfed screen at a throw distance of 21 feet and through a Prismasonic FE 1500R anamorphic lens after the lamp has 200 hours on it. This works out to 800, or so, lumens from the PJ. Hard to be exact because there are so many variables from: 1) light loss in the long throw lens, 2) light loss through the anamorphic lens, 3) light loss from bulb aging, 4) light loss from vertical offset. These things are not possible to predict with great accuracy, so one needs to have a little in reserve. The Sim 2 1080P does this with the adjustable iris and variable power to the lamp. The 3-chip advantage in ANSI CR is good, but the DC 4 may help this in a single chipper such that it is "good enough".

However, all this is moot because I still have that $2K non-refundable deposit on the Ferrari Red C3X 1080P. I have just modified my home theater to lower the projection booth slot 7 inches (a lot of carpentry) so that the center line of the C3X lens is just within the top of the Stewart screen. This solves one of the problems from the newly issued C3X spec changes, and also ensures that the newly issued T-2 lens throw ratio range falls within my physical setup.

I'm just wingeing that the delay in the red C3X 1080P has been so long that the V11S2 is now available and I might have made a different decision if I were starting from a clean sheet of paper with no obligations. I thought my thought process might have been of some use to others reading this forum who have described theaters similar to mine, but who have said that the C3X1080P was too much of a reach, financially (it almost is for me). The VP11S2 may well turn out to not be bright enough once an independent set of D 65 measurements are done, and we will all be the wiser. I based my purchase decision for the C3X 1080P on the measurements people reported in this forum. That's what it is all about. We share information and make our own decisions.
post #82 of 1662
Ted-

I would not count on the VP-11S2 meeting your brightness needs. The 11S1 was rated at 600 lumens and the 11S2 is rated at 800 lumens.

The 15S1 is rated at 1000 lumens. In Jason's tests on the 15S1, he got high lumen output only on the Iris 1 setting, but at a great sacrifice in contrast.

With the DC4, there will be much less of a sacrifice in contrast. But the 11S2 is not as bright as the 15S1 by Marantz's own specs.
post #83 of 1662
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Whitehead View Post

Ted-

I would not count on the VP-11S2 meeting your brightness needs. The 11S1 was rated at 600 lumens and the 11S2 is rated at 800 lumens.

The 15S1 is rated at 1000 lumens. In Jason's tests on the 15S1, he got high lumen output only on the Iris 1 setting, but at a great sacrifice in contrast.

With the DC4, there will be much less of a sacrifice in contrast. But the 11S2 is not as bright as the 15S1 by Marantz's own specs.

Hey Bob, you sure about the 800 lumen figure? The cut sheet they gave us says 850. I know, I'm nit-picking...

Either way though, the 15S1 will be brighter than the 11S2.
post #84 of 1662
The Press Releases state 800 lumens.
post #85 of 1662
Just a simple question nobody was able to answer in another thread. Are Marantz PJ's made in China?
post #86 of 1662
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tutmos View Post

Just a simple question nobody was able to answer in another thread. Are Marantz PJ's made in China?

The VP15S1 is "Fabrique Au Japon", so I would guess that the 11S2 will be as well.
post #87 of 1662
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Whitehead View Post

The Press Releases state 800 lumens.

850 is what they sent us.

Maybe they've revised the number. I'm checking with Marantz and will keep you posted...
post #88 of 1662
After spending a LONG week with the S2 here is my somewhat biased review.

I could probably live with this projector forever (or until something better comes along... ).

It isn't quite as bright as the VP-15, but the absolute black level is noticeably lower. Lower than film absolutely, lower than digital cinema, but not the velvet of the JVC or a good 9" CRT. Although having owned a 9" CRT for quite some time, the JVC doesn't look like that either. There is something that I can't put my finger on about their blacks that seems artificial, but I'll probably never find out because I'd have to live with one in my lab/theater to figure it out and I don't think they'd like that... And besides if you are lower than film, isn't that good enough? I don't know.

Anyway, back to the 11S2. Like I said the blacks are really good and with a picture on the screen the snap and depth are almost 3D. There is almost an "organic" quality to the image that reminded me of my old CRT. "Relaxed" might describe it better-- just plain easy to watch.

By the way, for anyone who came by and didn't introduce yourself--- shame on you. And to those that did it was great to meet you (millerwill among others). You should also know that I set it up for "retail", with the iriii (I still don't know if that is the plural of iris) both wide open.

I think that with the price reduction in the projector and also the three different lens kits that we will have no problem staying back ordered.
post #89 of 1662
Dan, did you mean to say not quite as bright as the 15S1?
post #90 of 1662
OOPS. Yes. Fixed.
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