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BD-UP5000 Universal Player Samsung [OFFICIAL OWNERS THREAD] & FAQ - Page 335

post #10021 of 13503
No 7.1 analog DTS-HD/MA? Come on Samsung you're costing me grief and money. I'd like to keep my reference non HDMI HT Receivers.
post #10022 of 13503
Quote:
Originally Posted by guitarman View Post

No 7.1 analog DTS-HD/MA? Come on Samsung you're costing me grief and money. I'd like to keep my reference non HDMI HT Receivers.

Hi guitarman,

We can only hope that they will come up very soon with this last feature in their arsenal of firmware updates. Maybe in May?

Cheers,

______ Bob
post #10023 of 13503
Went into BB today. On the open box shelf sat a UP5000. Had an open box sticker, but no price. I asked the clerk to check it. "It's $299, but I can take 10% off.". Yeah, right. I bought one 2 weeks ago at CC for $169. Nether have remotes, but CC did give me a 1500 remote that works. I'll go back tonight and talk to a manager & see if I can get a better deal. Considering that Samsung has dried up their supply of replacement drives, I'd like to have a backup if I can get a good deal on it, just in case.
post #10024 of 13503
I lucked out and actually got my unit back after I returned it the day before they released the 1.3 fw. About a month later I was browsing the 1500/2500 and on top of the stack was a 5k. I said urmm I opened the box and checked the unit. I had a scuff mark on the front panel by the FF/RR button and sho nuff there it was. I immediately put that under my arm and walked to the mgr I ended up getting a better deal the second time around with a four year warranty.

If this unit should ever fail which I think it will, I'll just return it to BB and get a BD player. I already run two media PC's dual format and one A3 for my French titles that the 5k can't do subs on. So I'm already running four separate units and if the A3 ever fails I have a brand new XA2 ready in the wings and a back up add on 360 drive.
post #10025 of 13503
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nimo View Post

I lucked out and actually got my unit back after I returned it the day before they released the 1.3 fw. About a month later I was browsing the 1500/2500 and on top of the stack was a 5k. I said urmm I opened the box and checked the unit. I had a scuff mark on the front panel by the FF/RR button and sho nuff there it was. I immediately put that under my arm and walked to the mgr I ended up getting a better deal the second time around with a four year warranty.

What did you pay the 2nd time for it? I went back to BB today and they priced this OB at $269 (with no remote or box). It is fairly scuffed up on front & top. The one I picked up at CC was in better condition. It has played with no problems. It has a 2/08 date. I have not try the one at BB yet to see if it plays ok. This has a 12/07 date.
post #10026 of 13503
DTS-HD Master Audio, maybe soon?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote:
Originally Posted by guitarman
No 7.1 analog DTS-HD/MA? Come on Samsung you're costing me grief and money. I'd like to keep my reference non HDMI HT Receivers.

Hi guitarman,

We can only hope that they will come up very soon with this last feature in their arsenal of firmware updates. Maybe in May?

Cheers,

______ Bob"

Bob I need it to stop my suffering. I spent all day with my analog 7.1 capable Marantz and Harmon Kardon trying to find what I like best when getting by with Core DTS-HD. Ok so PCM Core DTS-HD sounds good & clear. Switching over the Bitstream Audiophile Core DTS-HD I see now I pick up the two back channels, they're out when running PCM. So to me for now DTS-HD Core sounds best over bitstream audiophile because of the extra speakers.

All this will end when Samsung allows a couple of engineers some time to work on their very needed customers firmware fix of PCM DTS HD Master. Please
post #10027 of 13503
Hi guitarman,

Did you consider getting a Panny DMP-BD55?

And I don't want you to suffer, I just give you my best, HOPE & ALTERNATIVE.

Cheers,

_____
Bob
post #10028 of 13503
I thought about that machine but I'd have the hassle of switching the 7.1 inputs between the HD-DVD player and the Blu-Ray player. Stands to reason we all bought the BD5000 to cover both software formats, now if they can just follow up with the firmware we'd get what we paid for.
post #10029 of 13503
Quote:
Originally Posted by guitarman View Post

I thought about that machine but I'd have the hassle of switching the 7.1 inputs between the HD-DVD player and the Blu-Ray player. Stands to reason we all bought the BD5000 to cover both software formats, now if they can just follow up with the firmware we'd get what we paid for.

You need a new receiver then, with HDMI inputs for everything.
Or wait for the latest firmware on the 5000.
Your choice and your time.

Main thing, be happy.
post #10030 of 13503
Went back into BB today & they still had the OB UP5000. Saw a clerk I had delt with before. Asked him the best he could do on it, said I had picked up one at CC for $169. He pulled out a pen & marked it $169. I asked if they had found the remote. He checked the drawer & pulled it out. I now have a back up UP5000 with remote. Made me happy.
post #10031 of 13503
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lordoftherings View Post

You need a new receiver then, with HDMI inputs for everything.
Or wait for the latest firmware on the 5000.
Your choice and your time.

Main thing, be happy.

I bugged Samsung about it yesterday and will keep touching base with them so they don't give up. Others should do the same thing.
post #10032 of 13503
Quote:
Originally Posted by yrly View Post

Anyone else running 1.3 have problems with SD DVDs at the layer change? I've had mine lock at the layer change on SDs. It works fine on BDs and HD DVDs all the time (and I've thrown quite a few at it), but I rarely watch SDs on it and it has frozen at the layer change on at least two thus far.

I am running 1.3 and I have noticed a very hard, noticeable layer change when watching DVDs. Literally a half-second freeze. Very annoying for an expensive player. Something I never noticed on a standard DVD player or my Toshiba A2.
post #10033 of 13503
Quote:
Originally Posted by guitarman View Post

I bugged Samsung about it yesterday and will keep touching base with them so they don't give up. Others should do the same thing.

Sage advice.
post #10034 of 13503
Quote:
Originally Posted by guitarman View Post

I bugged Samsung about it yesterday and will keep touching base with them so they don't give up. Others should do the same thing.

Did they indicate to you that they were working on it and it would be out in the next firmware download?
Thanks-
post #10035 of 13503
I call Samsung a dozen times or more, and they are always behind me as far NEWs are
concerned. Example: When a new firmware was released, even four weeks after, they were still on the previous firmware at their head office!
We are doing more here between ourselves, resolving some problems, than Samsung is doing for us in their control center.
And don't expect them to give you NEWs on the phone that you already knew, or about future firmware updates. Nada...
If a new firmware will be released, you will only knew from their web site.


On a different note; I just finish reading the review of the Denon BD-1800 blu-ray player at "Secrets of Home Theater and High fidelity". The reviewer was comparing it with our Sammy BD-UP5000 a few times. Our 5000 is a better Video player, of course, with our HQV Reon. But the Denon 1800 had a better sound from it's HDMI output, and also from it's 2-channel analog output, with it's Burr-Brown Dac.
Check it out, freshly released review.
post #10036 of 13503
I have serious trouble believing the HDMI output via bitstreaming (0s and 1s) was any different than the Denon. That would depend on the receiver rather than the player. Sure, you can have audible errors due to firmware glitches but that's the only conceivable explanation for an audible difference. It's just a leap of faith I can't entertain.

I agree with you about Samsung CSR and their level of knowledge about goings on within their software engineering department.

Searched out the review and found the offending paragraph:

Quote:


The 1800 reproduced the first scene of the movie perfectly, with fantastic bass. When the bank manager takes matters into his own hands and starts firing at the robbers with a pump-action shotgun, I just had to smile, as the blasts sounded so incredibly realistic. In fact, I greatly preferred the audio quality of the 1800 to my reference Samsung player, as the 1800 offered a noticeably smoother sound. I know that many people firmly believe that “bits are bits” when it comes to digital audio, and that all components should sound the same, but via HDMI, my reference Samsung is actually a bit thin and harsh sounding compared to the 1800. This was particularly evident with stereo playback.

This is hardly objective nor does it rule out the very likely possibility of placebo. Also, I wonder how much he investigated/experimented with the audio settings in both players and his receiver of choice.
post #10037 of 13503
Sounds like ears hearing what they want to hear to me.
post #10038 of 13503
Quote:
Originally Posted by meh130 View Post

I am running 1.3 and I have noticed a very hard, noticeable layer change when watching DVDs. Literally a half-second freeze. Very annoying for an expensive player. Something I never noticed on a standard DVD player or my Toshiba A2.

Old news. We've been complaining about this problem on this thread since the player was released.

Doug
post #10039 of 13503
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinnie97 View Post

I have serious trouble believing the HDMI output via bitstreaming (0s and 1s) was any different than the Denon. That would depend on the receiver rather than the player. Sure, you can have audible errors due to firmware glitches but that's the only conceivable explanation for an audible difference. It's just a leap of faith I can't entertain.

I agree with you about Samsung CSR and their level of knowledge about goings on within their software engineering department.

Searched out the review and found the offending paragraph:


This is hardly objective nor does it rule out the very likely possibility of placebo. Also, I wonder how much he investigated/experimented with the audio settings in both players and his receiver of choice.


I was once skeptical of differences in digital audio signals as well, particularly since I am an IT guy by trade and know that 0's are 0's and 1's are 1's. Well, the case of the audible differences between the 1800 and my 5000 are pretty much clear as day if you take the time to listen. I will admit that the difference wasn't as large on movie soundtracks, but it was much easier to hear on 2-channel CDs.

Both the 1800 and 5000 were fed via identical 3' Blue Jeans cable HDMI runs directly to the Marantz SR6003. Both players were set up for bitstream output (each player only has 1 way to do this, so there is no way to "experiment" with the audio settings). The SR6003 used the same audio options for each player (the Audyssey "Preset" mode that I created). There was a slight difference in output levels between the two players according to my Rat Shack analog SPL meter, so I made sure that I evened things out via the volume control on the receiver. I've also done this same A/B test via optical coaxial feeds between the 5000 and my Pioneer Elite DV-47Ai player. The 5000 has the same harsh/bright qualities on 2-channel playback via optical coaxial as well, with the Pioneer (via the same Kimber D-60 optical coaxial cable) sounding much more rich/full than the 5000.

Towards the end of my reviewing session, I swapped out the SR6003 for an Integra DHC-9.9/Wyred 4 Sound multichannel amp setup and was able to hear the same differences (it was actually easier to hear due to the much higher performance of the amp/pre-amp combo, not that the SR6003 is a slouch). This combo is Audyssey Pro corrected (highly recommend it if you've got the capability) and I can share with you all the response graphs if you really care to see them.

Instead of just saying you don't believe something, I urge you to perform some A/B comparisons yourself (it's a big part of the fun in this hobby). You may be surprised in what you hear. Also, keep in mind that hearing is quite different between individuals, and many people do not have the ablility to perceive these differences. That doesn't mean that they don't exist.

In the case of the Samsung's sound, remember, there are a lot of electronic components that the signal passes through before it hits the HDMI/digital cable that feeds your receiver/pre-pro. Who knows what is going on at each of those junctions.
post #10040 of 13503
I know this, for the most part will just fall on deaf ears but here goes, again. Yes there can be a difference in the sound quality when comparing the digital output (HDMI, SPDIF) of different players (ie: transports). Some of the reasons (just to name a few) for this can be the the transport stability. The more stable the transport the less error correction is going on in the processing. Also, on how the digital stream is processed, jitter reduction circuitry, etc. There is so much more to it then just reading the 0's and 1's! It's about reading them error free, keeping the information intact and delivering that stream with the speed necessary for proper decoding. A good solid transport with high quality isolated power supplies and high speed IC's can make a huge difference in sound quality even when your just comparing the digital steam. This can even be measured with proper analyzers.
post #10041 of 13503
I'm still skeptical...it wasn't blindly done. The risk of psychology getting in the way is too great. I am glad to hear you used SPL level matching but the graphs of which you speak might go some way in providing proof of the differences.

Also, the prospect of error correction audibly degrading the sound (I suppose processing isn't a stretch) is a bit much for me to swallow. It's the same reason you can't partially tune into a digital television channel and expect for it to be watchable/listenable (dropout mania).
post #10042 of 13503
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinnie97 View Post

I have serious trouble believing the HDMI output via bitstreaming (0s and 1s) was any different than the Denon. That would depend on the receiver rather than the player. Sure, you can have audible errors due to firmware glitches but that's the only conceivable explanation for an audible difference. It's just a leap of faith I can't entertain.

I agree with you about Samsung CSR and their level of knowledge about goings on within their software engineering department.

Searched out the review and found the offending paragraph:


This is hardly objective nor does it rule out the very likely possibility of placebo. Also, I wonder how much he investigated/experimented with the audio settings in both players and his receiver of choice.

Hi vinnie97,

Yep, I thought that some people might found that interesting. I was also surprised, just like you, about his comments on the HDMI audio differences.
I am sure that he used the same receiver though, the Marantz SR6003.
One thing is for sure though, is that the sound of our Sammy BD-UP5000 is excellent from the multichannel analog output, and this from my personal experience.
As from the HDMI audio output, I will need the Denon BD-1800 in my home, to compare the sound with my 5000.
So, I do take his comments with a little grain of salt, until I can compare myself. Then I will be able to accept or not his findings. But I'm with him so far.

Anyway, the Denon 1800 at $599 list, is a totally incomplete blu-ray player, missing too many features. It is not worth it at all. Absolutely obsolete.

Cheers,

_____
Bob
post #10043 of 13503
Yea...

BTW, by audio settings, I meant the sampling rate, for one. That can be adjusted in the BD-UP5000's audio settings. Is this only applicable to the analog outs?
post #10044 of 13503
Quote:
Originally Posted by meh130 View Post

I am running 1.3 and I have noticed a very hard, noticeable layer change when watching DVDs. Literally a half-second freeze. Very annoying for an expensive player. Something I never noticed on a standard DVD player or my Toshiba A2.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dougotte View Post

Old news. We've been complaining about this problem on this thread since the player was released.

Doug

Yeah, mine has always done this as well. Maybe FW can fix it, maybe May? Looks great though on SD DVD conversion.
post #10045 of 13503
Quote:
Originally Posted by Influence View Post

I was once skeptical of differences in digital audio signals as well, particularly since I am an IT guy by trade and know that 0's are 0's and 1's are 1's. Well, the case of the audible differences between the 1800 and my 5000 are pretty much clear as day if you take the time to listen. I will admit that the difference wasn't as large on movie soundtracks, but it was much easier to hear on 2-channel CDs.

Both the 1800 and 5000 were fed via identical 3' Blue Jeans cable HDMI runs directly to the Marantz SR6003. Both players were set up for bitstream output (each player only has 1 way to do this, so there is no way to "experiment" with the audio settings). The SR6003 used the same audio options for each player (the Audyssey "Preset" mode that I created). There was a slight difference in output levels between the two players according to my Rat Shack analog SPL meter, so I made sure that I evened things out via the volume control on the receiver. I've also done this same A/B test via optical coaxial feeds between the 5000 and my Pioneer Elite DV-47Ai player. The 5000 has the same harsh/bright qualities on 2-channel playback via optical coaxial as well, with the Pioneer (via the same Kimber D-60 optical coaxial cable) sounding much more rich/full than the 5000.

Towards the end of my reviewing session, I swapped out the SR6003 for an Integra DHC-9.9/Wyred 4 Sound multichannel amp setup and was able to hear the same differences (it was actually easier to hear due to the much higher performance of the amp/pre-amp combo, not that the SR6003 is a slouch). This combo is Audyssey Pro corrected (highly recommend it if you've got the capability) and I can share with you all the response graphs if you really care to see them.

Instead of just saying you don't believe something, I urge you to perform some A/B comparisons yourself (it's a big part of the fun in this hobby). You may be surprised in what you hear. Also, keep in mind that hearing is quite different between individuals, and many people do not have the ablility to perceive these differences. That doesn't mean that they don't exist.

In the case of the Samsung's sound, remember, there are a lot of electronic components that the signal passes through before it hits the HDMI/digital cable that feeds your receiver/pre-pro. Who knows what is going on at each of those junctions.

Hi Tyler,

Nice of you to respond here.

I trust your expert judgement on your final analysis of the sound differences between the Denon DVD-1800BD Blu-Ray player and the Samsung BD-UP5000 Combo player.
I also believe, like you on sound differences from the Digital HDMI, Coaxial and Optical outputs from different players.
It is even more obvious, just like you said, when listening to two channels audio from CDs.

Tyler, did you also listen without Audyssey engaged?
Also, tell me if I am wrong, but my guess is that the Samsung player volume level was higher than the Denon.

Also, Tyler, can you tell me how you did the Audyssey PRO Room correction on your Integra DHC-9.9 Surround Processor? By hiring an Audyssey PRO certified person, or by yourself with the proper Audyssey PRO tool kit?

Tyler, if you can provide us with some graphs, I will greatly appreciate that from you.

Thank you so much, for an honest perpective and a truly thorough analysis of your findings.

Regards,

________
Bob
post #10046 of 13503
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinnie97 View Post

Yea...

BTW, by audio settings, I meant the sampling rate, for one. That can be adjusted in the BD-UP5000's audio settings. Is this only applicable to the analog outs?

Hi vinnie97,

There is no Up sampling rate audio settings in the 5000, only a PCM Down
sampling, On or Off selection choice. Off is the best option, if your receiver can accept a 96khz audio signal from his Digital input only.
So, the OFF position on your 5000 will allow your 5000 to output signals up to 96khz from the material recorded at that frequency without copy protection.
Nothing to do with the analog outputs from your 5000.

Cheers,

_______
Bob
post #10047 of 13503
Thanks...I couldn't remember the setting specifically. I haven't checked that section of the setup in months. OK, the only other option I forgot about was Dynamic Compression and of course Speaker Setup, both used for the Analog outs.
post #10048 of 13503
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinnie97 View Post

Thanks...I couldn't remember the setting specifically. I haven't checked that section of the setup in months. OK, the only other option I forgot about was Dynamic Compression and of course Speaker Setup, both used for the Analog outs.

Hi vinnie97,

Dynamic Compression is also ONLY for the Digital outputs, when only a Dolby Digital signal is detected. It is NOT used for the Analog outputs.

And, you are correct for the Speaker Setup, it is ONLY used for the Multichannel Analog Output.

For informations on Setting Up the Audio Options, check under the section:
"Audio Setup", pages 37, 38 and 39 of your 5000's manual.

Cheers,

_______ Bob
post #10049 of 13503
Thanks again...I guess when the output is in analog form, Samsung expects the receiver or sound processor to normalize the output. The phrase "when only a Dolby Digital signal is detected" should have been the clue to me that dynamic compression is done on the digital level.
post #10050 of 13503
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinnie97 View Post

Thanks again...I guess when the output is in analog form, Samsung expects the receiver or sound processor to normalize the output. The phrase "when only a Dolby Digital signal is detected" should have been the clue to me that dynamic compression is done on the digital level.

Hey, we always have to keep up with what we already knew.
In Audio, it is the name of the game, isn't it?
Or unless there is a new firmware or a new Audio codec that they come up with...

Take care.
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