BD-UP5000 Universal Player Samsung [OFFICIAL OWNERS THREAD] & FAQ - Page 41

I think everyone has the same results.
Someone posted somewhere in the depths of this thread that the test tones would only work over the analog outs.
Not sure if that is expected to change.

You're right. 1080p24 probably makes little difference even over 1080i60.

Assuming the display has a 60 Hz refresh and properly deinterlaces the video it receives, 1080p24, 1080p60 and 1080i60 should all produce similar results. There will still be some motion jitter since the display is refreshed at 60 Hz regardless of the video connection. 120 Hz displays would not have motion jitter since 120 = 24 * 5.

Detecting 3:2 pulldown in a 60 Hz (interlaced or progressive) video stream is essential for proper 3:2 removal, but there can be errors. The algorithm relies on the ability to detect motion to identify FILM frames in the sequence. If there isn't ENOUGH motion there may be no clear answer.

Sending 24 Hz video from the player to the display has an advantage since a 3:2 sequence never needs to be generated (which the display would need to unravel).

Here's a link to an explanation of how 3:2 pulldown is created and unraveled:

http://www.dvdfile.com/news/special_...2_pulldown.htm

Hi kwindrem,

Thanks for the info. Unfortunately my old AVR does not do any DTS so, as you say, for now I'm stuck with no surround at all for the Spiderman DB's. Hopefully the AVR I want will be in stock soon, and/or the firmware update from Samsung comes out soon!!

Thanks,
Gerry

I've got Klipsch RF-35 mains (actually same model line for FL/FR/C/SL/SR).

I had a Denon 2910 DVD/SACD player connected over multichannel analog prior to this one. I didn't see this issue with that player, but of course it was loaded with player side speaker adjustments.

Sounds like you're more of an audiophile than I am. What's you're feeling about the nature of the 'noise' over the analog outs? Is the AVR amping noise that's already in the analog signal (DAC errors - perhaps at very low freq.?), or do you think the speakers are distorting an otherwise clean signal?

I ask it this way because my system handled 2CH TrueHD just fine with speakers set to *large* at the same volume. I would imagine that has just as wide (or wider) dynamic range. I'm still getting at least the LFE through my SW, no matter which way I try it.

The freq. response of my mains is 37Hz-20kHz ±3dB. So even at 100Hz (the crossover point to the SW), I should be ok with the *large* setting, no?

Caution: The 5000's manual incorrectly uses "LFE" for the subwoofer on/off!!!

LFE (Low Frequency Effects) is a separate channel that provides the rumble for explosions, etc. It does NOT carry low frequency information for the main and surround channels.

The subwoofer is what is used to reproduce the LFE channel PLUS any bass from "small" channels.

When you set a speaker size to LARGE, the full bandwidth of that channel is sent to that speaker. No information is redirected to the sub output FROM THAT CHANNEL. If you set a speaker size to SMALL, that channel is split into highs and lows. Highs are sent to that output; lows are sent to the "bass mix" which is a sum of all channel lows and the LFE channel.

If the subwoofer is on ("LFE" on the 5000), the bass mix is sent to the sub output and not to any other output.

If the subwoofer is off, the LFE channel any lows from "small" channels are redirected to channels set to "large". If there are no "large" channels, all low frequency information is discarded.

That's the way it is supposed to work any way.

THX recommends setting all speakers to small so the lows are reproduced only by the sub. That eliminates multiple sources of LF energy in the listening space. With the sub as the only source for bass, coverage is theoretically much more consistent across all listening positions. There will always be peaks and nulls in bass frequencies (unless you're out doors) due to reflections. With only a single LF source, it's easier to minimize peaks/nulls in the room by moving the sub around. With multiple LF sources you'd need to move them all!

those people that have seen grain, particularly in ch 3 of transformers, have you tried varying the video settings from 1080p24 to 1080p to 1080i ??

i noticed that just going from 1080p24 to 1080p changed the appearance of the scene in terms of cutting down on noise/grain...

where's the fix for Fox movies?

Next firmware update...

Fox films play just fine on mine.

let's trade

1. See post #1212

2. How capable is your subwoofer? There's usually (at least in action flicks) a lot of low bass below 40Hz in the mains, many times down to 25Hz. If your sub poops out about where your mains do, it won't matter. If it will handle material in the 25Hz - 40Hz range, small might be better.

IMHO, a decent sub is a special purpose speaker that is designed to handle frequencies from about 100Hz to as low as it will go. The other speakers are not so specialized and don't excel as much in the lower frequencies as a decent sub.

Personally, I have very good mains (about the same spec-wise as yours) and decent surrounds and center capability. I also have pretty decent subwooferage and have always run my speakers as small. I normally have my crossovers set at 80Hz, but I can live with 100Hz since the crossover threshold is not a brick wall and there will be some sub-100Hz going to the other speakers anyway (although at a lower level).

I'd suggest experimenting with the two settings and see what you like. You might find one setting works for some types of films and the other works better for others.

Good luck and enjoy,

Doug

Picked up a 1500 in Wichita this morning! Left for BB with a little bit of snow starting and by the time I was heading back drove through full-on white-out blizzard. I've never seen such a snow storm in Wichita! But I got one of the only unit that they recd this morning. Only unit in Wichita to date. Lucky me!

Bought the 4 year service plan for $79 and used the 10% off coupon. After tax it was still $853. Essentially got the service plan for free.

It's been working wonderfully. Fortunately! Video looks excellent! Audio hooked through my Angstrom 100 DD surround processor. Only does DD (will be getting a new processor sometime March/April when new stuff comes out. Maybe Emotiva or ?) so I have the coax digital out going to it. Playing DD Plus tracks sounds amazing. Dramatic upgrade over my upconverting Toshiba in sound and of course the upconversion of the picture!

S/N ends in X XXXXX 6 0787 3. S/W Ver. 071108.02_1114_0924.11_XAA.
HDMI out 1080i to Toshiba 52" 52HM84. This is a 720p DLP but looks excellent. One more thing to upgrade sometime toward the end the the new year! It also only has one HDMI input so had to pick up an Oppo HDMI switcher. Using Audioquest HDMI 3 cables.

Watched Patriot on Bluray. Perfect
Live Free Die Hard (Fox) Bluray. No problems. Skipped to other chapters and scanned through. Perfect.
Yes, Live At Montreux, HD-DVD. Was beautiful. Picture and sound but hung up once about 2/3 through. Nothing worked to unfreeze it. Had to reboot but then played right throught the spot all the way to the end.
Tried a TDK DVD+R DL. Didn't work. Did nothing at all.
DVD-R works. Upconversion looks pretty good!

Really can't compare all the Codecs, DTS, etc as I can only play DD. I don't even have 5.1 analog inputs only stereo so I'm stuck for now. Still the sound from the DD+ tracks are a big step up over DD from the SD discs. I have five ch's of tube amps and an Adcom 200 wpc subwoofer amp with two 12" Vifa subs. Audioquest cable all through.

So far loving it! Hopefully firmware update will have all codecs working by the time I get a new processor in March or so. Was getting pretty fearful of the purchase for a while after reading the first couple of user reports but so far very glad I got it. Well! I can't go anywhere now. I'm snowed in so I guess I'll just have to sit around watching movies all day!

anyone else experience this? I just did my test tone, turned the surround off since im only using 5.1 and set everything else to small...

wen the test tone ran, sound came out of the fronts wen it should have been coming out of the rear surrounds....


any reason why its doing this?

Thanks. I had forgotten about the SW not getting the bass from large channels. On our Rotel pre-pro, we actually have the option of setting the fronts to LARGE and the SW to MAX, so that the bass from even the large front channels does go to the SW. As you point out, that may not be desirable.

What speed is the disk rated at, 4x, 8x, 16x?
How old is the recorder/burner it was recorded on?

I believe the test tones are meant for the analog outputs. If you are using digital, you will only hear the fronts (as reported by others in this thread).

Doug

You might be better off setting the 5000 to 720p. What's happening the way things are set up now is the 5000 is scaling everything to 1080i, then the display is RESCALING to 720p. You should see a better image if you eliminate the second scaling.

Nice post; I think this clears up a lot of confusion.

My current setup (no 5000 yet, but soon!) uses very capable towers in all 4 corners (because my PC shares these speakers, but rotated 90º). However I still set all speakers to small to ensure that the bass from the center channel matches that from the corner channels. Also, while my towers are quite capable, the subwoofer is even better with low frequencies.

I'm curious why you would suggest using the bitstream "re-encode" setting instead of the bitstream "audiophile" setting. This would always result in a lower quality output than just using the native "core" tracks with no re-encoding. The only advantage I can see would be the that re-encode will allow you to hear the primary, secondary, and effects tracks all together, while the audiophile setting will only play the primary track, but I personally don't think that this is worth the potential negatives from the re-encode process.

Thanks for clarification,

Larry

TDK 8X DVD+R DL.

Forgot to add that the drive is a new Phillips Lightscribe burner. Forgot the model but it burns up to 20X. The DVD+R DL didn't work at all. Any ideas?

I don't know if this is related to what is happening here, but this "looks" like a single-field vs two field pause issue. In other words, those jaggies look like the effect you get when pausing video on a player that only uses one field of the frame for the paused image. This could be a firmware issue on the 5000, or it could be a design decision or even a limitation.

The best way to test this would be to view an image with a diagonal line in it that is NOT moving -- some sort of test pattern showing a diagonal line or circle would work. Since the image is motionless even when it's not paused, by pausing/unpausing this image you can determine if the jaggies are just there when the unit is paused. If they come and go when the unit is paused/unpaused on the 5000, but NOT on the XA1, than the 5000 is using one field for the pause, while the XA1 is using both.

Let us know if you do further testing.

Thanks,

Larry

PS. Since you have both the 5000 and the XA1, could you look at the snow in Ch. 3 of Transformers (the fly-in to the ship shot) and compare the grain on the snow/ice areas? Don't pause the video -- look at it while it's moving. Do you see any differences in the grain structure or amount? Thanks.

It's called Global Warming. Personally, I blame Samsung. How the heck is Kansas getting units before Colorado anyway? Doesn't Samy know da Broncos beat da Chiefs! BB says not a one seen in our state so far.

One thing I have noted is that sometimes when you turn the player off, even 'though it was set to 1080p24, it will revert to 1080i60 but only for a short time during the initial menus when turned back on. It has always returned to the set 1080p24 quickly. This is a total non-issue.

Fortunately this is easy for me to check anytime since my CII processor can be asked for a status pop up screen that displays exactly what it is getting form the player and sending to the display at any time.

So far this player is great and I have had NO issues with the video. Audio is fine with normal Dolby 5.1 and I can wait for the rest and would not care all that much if it never got any better. I am not a "Golden Ears" audiophile.

No reason I can think of to do this on purpose. I suspect it's a bug or limitations in how the audio is currently handled. It sounds like they needed to cobble some things together to make the first release by Christmas.

I feel for those making the jump to HD disc playback that have older receivers without multichannel PCM input (HDMI or analog) or at least a DTS decoder. I'd be really upset if I had to take a step back to Dolby Pro Logic off 2-channel audio with my $800 HD disc player!

Dolby's web site indicates that you are supposed to be able to extract a DD 5.1 track from DDTHD, but the 5000 definitely doesn't do it (at least not yet). That doesn't address discs that have only multichannel PCM tracks. These would need to be encoded to DD 5.1!

It seems like there should have been a mandatory DD 5.1 track on both Blu-Ray and HD DVDs to support these older receivers.

I'd originally thought Samsung made the right choice by offering only DTS reencoding but maybe not.

I just picked up my 5000 today at BB - I got the only one in the store. First disk I put in was Ratatouille, and I noticed the same issues.
1) audio drop-outs during busy screnes,
2) perhaps most annoying of all -once I hit the stop button, the player just went away - it kept playing the movie, and was totally unresponsive to all other keypresses. I finally had to power-down.

I was about to return the player, when I decided to try some other disks - Harry Potter and Cars. They all worked just fine. For now, I'm assuming this was just an issue with the one disk, and I'm hoping a firmware update will solve the issue.

Hmmm, I don't know how you guys/girls see only 480i out of the components whilst playing an SD DVD. I checked my 5000 playing SD DVD and it will up convert it to whatever I set the Samsung BD-UP5000 to, 480p, 720p, 1080i and 1080p. I am playing a SD DVD "Roy Orbison's Black and White Night" as I write this and my Onlyo NR-905 receiver shows it is receiving it at 1080i via component input. Can it be I am not reading this correctly? Whatever setting I put the UP5000 player to (480i, 480p, 720p, 1080i, 1080p) is what the Onkyo receiver confirms and shows the same. Interesting that you say you are only getting 480i with SD DVD's. What firmware level and manufacture date are your units at? I can also play my DVD+R SD DVD copies on my 5000.

Here is some more update on my BD-UP5000.
I have had a few instances of the player skipping and freezing up in the middle of movies thus far. Two discs (one BlueRay one HD-DVD) that played through fine the other day non-stop, today seemed to choke and sputter and freeze up 3/4 way into the movie. The audio would stop and stutter as would the video would start sklpping and choking. Sometimes it would pass and continue playing smooth onward. Other times it would seem to be stuttering and hang up in one spot for awhile and occassionally putter forward and freeze again. Doing a rewind or chapter change and back again to the same spot clears it up and it plays right through that spot fine again. The two movies this stutter happened on were Hairspray (BlueRay) and Superman Returns (HD-DVD). I think this is intermittent. Maybe my discs got a little smudge on them, I dunno, did not check.

There were times also when first inserting a disc (any format) into this player that it would not recognize it. I would have to power the 5000 off and power it on again and then it would read the disc fine. So it is tempermental. It only happened twice to me like this. I've read others reporting similar quirk.

I bought a new HD-DVD disc "300" today and played it. I don't know what so special about this disc that everyone seems to have it. It did not strike me as a reference quality disc at all for PQ or for HD Audio. Anyway what I really want to say about watching this movie is that I saw in a lot of the scenes the "crawly dots or snow static" busily moving around. It was quite apparent and I am not sure if it was the poor video quality, grain of the movie or was it the Samsung BD-UP5000 crawling dots symptom reported by a few other users.

if you are using s/pdif out as i am then the only sure way to get multi-channel output from any title is to use bitstream reencode...i honestly don't know how much, if any, you are losing in this manner...i have no complaints about the sound this way...also, in the future, even if i had a hdmi receiver setup where this player is going, if i wanted the PIP sound then it ultimately is the only way to go...

i suggest trying it and listening to the audio quality as opposed to just deciding based on, oh it is reencoding, it isn't the raw bitstream, it is going to be worse (not that you are having this knee-jerk reaction).

i agree and would not have thought this an issue were it not for the fact that, at least when it first came out, the XA1 was using a field pause vs. a frame pause...i'll have to view one of those early titles that i recall viewing when i first got the unit (maybe POTO).

i did look at ch3 snow scene and i think the xa1 did have a *cleaner* image but at the same time maybe *softer* ... i'll have to do this again tomorrow ... kids were riding me today for playing the same scene over and over again and couldn't understand why i was taking pictures of the tv...my son even told me that it was illegal to take pictures of movies