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BD-UP5000 Universal Player Samsung [OFFICIAL OWNERS THREAD] & FAQ - Page 8

post #211 of 13494
I'm leaning toward BD30/A35 right now...but, I'd like to see more reviews and info on multiple movies. I'd also like a confirmation on onboard memory.
post #212 of 13494
Quote:


People have to make decisions as to whether they buy this and keep their fingers crossed that a FW fix will make this unit perform how it should have in the first place.

That is indeed the issue with a lot, if not most, cutting edge new products. Releases are often dictated by such things as buying seasons or competing products (maybe both in this case?) so are very often not really ready. Do I buy and hope they fix it or wait until they do? I do wonder if the ability to do firmware updates is a good thing or bad. It may encourage a lax "we will fix it later" attitude. OTOH, if we did not have this ability and the product sucked, we would be in even deeper du-du. As far as I can see, there is no ideal solution right now at any price.

I do wonder why we have seen few posts from the couple of owners today:

Theory #1 - They are driving back to the store to return this POS.

Theory #2 - They are having too much fun with it to go and post.
post #213 of 13494
Quote:
Originally Posted by carljanderson View Post

Who is going to be the first to crack the case and tell us what the RAM module is???

aah, you beat to the question. This will confirm the memory question at once (firmware enabled to 1GB [or less] / external requirement).

Also, someone with 1.3a receiver, please use the bitstream (audiophile) setting and advise what you get. I cannot tell if someone has done this exact thing and provided results??
post #214 of 13494
Quote:
Originally Posted by CCDAstro View Post

Huh? How does my opinion cause the downfall of anything? As far as bitstreaming - NORMAL people (also called the general public) - do not even know what bitstreaming IS, much less have the equipment to use it. It is acceptance by the public, and nothing we think here, that determines the success or failure of HDM. The average Joe is not even going to touch a player at this price but will buy $99 closeouts at WalMart.

What I expect from a player and what I would like to expect from a player are not the same thing. One represents the ideal (seldom seen) and the other reality. I think we need to live with reality. The reality is that, as I said above, it is WAY too early to condemn this player. Ask me again in two weeks when I have had one for a while, or better yet, in a couple months after the first firmware update - then I will give you a real opinion based on some real experience.

Bottom line, if you buy this player you are an early adopter and early adopters do pay a price, both dollars and in risk and in hassle. If one can't take that heat (technically or financially), then other, more conservative options are in order.

So you think that even though they already have a player that sells for $277 and is capable of all the audio stuff people want, that this $800 player is okay to not have those capabilities? I do think that your opinion if generalized over a majority of consumers, even early adopters, will allow companies to continue to produce these poor featured and overpriced products. No I don't think your individual opinion means anything to them, but in general it will allow them to keep producing inferior products. For example, Toshiba A20 didn't output 1080p60 properly, no one complains, people keep buying it and then they make two new players A30 and 35 that have the same problem. Trust me, there are good products out there, just not many in the HDDVD or Bluray market. I'd say the only 3 decent products available at a decent price are the PS3, Panny 30 and XA2 (although it took a long time to get there). There are some others that are decent but very expensive (Pioneer etc). Other markets like AV receivers still have high end early adopter units but at least they work properly for the most part and have good new features to justify the early adopter price. I just think that if you don't hold these companies accountable and want to buy a $800 player that can't even do what a $99 A2 can do then thats setting everything up for just more and more poor product launces.
post #215 of 13494
Quote:
Originally Posted by eurotrance View Post

The XA2 does all of that and then some...

but its discontinued
post #216 of 13494
Quote:


No I don't think your individual opinion means anything to them, but in general it will allow them to keep producing inferior products. For example, Toshiba A20 didn't output 1080p60 properly, no one complains, people keep buying it and then they make two new players A30 and 35 that have the same problem.

You just made my point. Most consumers do not know 1080p60 from their mother's behind.

In any case this is OT and a waste of time, so I will not post any further comments on this.

I will post my impressions of the unit when my 5000 arrives in a week, next Friday, according to UPS.
post #217 of 13494
I just learned the LG BH200 will not pass Dolby True HD or DTS MA or any of the advanced codecs any way as 6 channel audio. Sad but true. I get the feeling that this one may also be limited in its ability to bitstream to my Integra 9.8. Thoughts?
post #218 of 13494
Ok folks, I'm up again. Yeah, it's 4:15PM, and yes, I am just getting up. I work full time (designing consumer electronics) and was finishing my part time classes finals this week, and was out late.

So, I am going to answer a couple of questions quick:

1) For all of you getting confused about the 128Mb of Flash memory, let me make something very clear:

-Just like your PC, the player has two types of storage, Voltatile and Persistant (non-volatile). In your PC, you call these the RAM (and you probably have anywhere from 256 Mb to 4 GB) and the hard drive (500GB or so). The RAM (Random Access Memory) is for running programs, the hard drive is for storing data. Volatile refers to whether or not it survives the power being turned off. This is a basic computer architecture thing and has been, well, almost always.

-This player has 128MB of Flash. Flash is "Flash memory", which is persistant storage, just like the hard drive (and is just like that USB Flash stick you have). For comparison, the Xbox360 HDDVD add-on has 192 MB of flash. The new iPod Touch has either 8 or 16GB. This is not the RAM. Right now, I have used a few megabytes of the flash for the web-enabled content from Transforers. This has nothing to do with, say, the problem I am having with Pirates 3 and the menus.

-I haven't looked it up, but there are probably minimum specs for the RAM to run the HDi and BD Java stuff - this is operating program memory, just like when you buy a game or operating system and it says "requires 512MB RAM to run properly" Some games, like Half-Life 2, said they needed 512MB, but didn't really run smoothly without 2GB due to having to keep going back to the hard drive to load more textures. From an analogous view, low RAM on HDi or BD Java would probably add some more clunkiness, but if the specs are well-defined and the people making content are trying to adhere to them, then this is not probably a problem. My guess is my Pirates 3 menu problem is due to a need for a firmware update for the player with regard to a z-order, semi-transparancy, or overlay problem with the BD Java libraries in the player versus the BD Java libraries Pirates 3 was mastered to.


2) As for the "demo" model supposition - that I bought a demo model. When I purchased this, the manager of Best Buy and I talked about the whole December / January lauch date thing. This is a soft launch for Best Buy. What does that mean, and how do I know? Second thing first - I make consumer electronics that sell at Best Buy, including things that have been soft launched. Now, what is soft launch? The buyers for Best Buy have to pick products to carry in the store which they believe will have high sell-through rates so that Best Buy is not stuck carrying inventory of products that just don't sell (Short Head for BestBuy stores, as opposed to Long Tail for BBfB or other online retailers). For a product such as this, which is a higher end piece, and only the third of the combo players, there is a lot of risk to carry this product which may not yet make sense to the average consumer (not us, guys - we are *not* the average). Best Buy wants products that move to people who can afford them quickly, not products that are available for the shopping convience of the occassional high end buyer. So, with a product like this, they do a soft launch to gauge the customer pull. Send a few (1 or 2) to maybe one or two stores in each sales district, see if it gets bought and how fast. From that data, then determine the order levels for more units to order in January, at the real launch.

Anyway, I expect that the firmware will have an update soon, but yeah - those of us that have it now are going to be a part of the firmware evaluation phase. And please, no one think that Samsung has released a product without testing the firmware. They have tested, and I am sure quite thoroughly, but there will always be issues, and in a combo player, there may be some unintended or emergent behaviors when two completely different codebases are thrown togther in one operating environment. I bet the minimal speaker setup, Dolby TrueHD, the audio glitches I experienced, and the Pirates 3 menu thing are all things that were either below the line on getting stable software ready (the first two), or stuff that just didn't get caught in what I am sure was a compressed validation process.

Overall, I think Samsung was trying to get this thing launched for Christmas which really means Black Friday (look at the old press releases), had problems, killed another one of their players (the 2400, right?) to refocus engineering resources on this one, but still missed it. Yeah, some people are probably taking it really hard from their boss right now. I know I am for a product I couldn't get out for Black Friday due to some unforseen mechanical validation issues.

So, if you want to cancel your orders, then do so and wait for something else or the firmware update. I, however, am not returning this - it works in my system, but maybe not always the best way, but it is a heck of a lot easier than having to use the 360 for HD and telling my wife "no, don't buy that on DVD - wait until I can do bluray too and then we'll get it." Nevertheless, if, come one month from now, after the January 1 hard launch, this thing still doesn't have a firmware update or at least a planned date, then I will get upset.

3) For everyone asking me to test bitstream stuff - other people have answered most of it, but I do not have a processor that handles HDMI at all. All my HDMI switching (and that is it) is handled outboard with Zektor HDMI switches (HDMI5 and MAS71). So, I can only do analog audio for you.

Now, my biggest single complaint about the thing is the lack of an HDMI cable in the box. That just sucks. I gotta go get one (and some late afternoon breakfast).

Once I get this thing re-wired up to my rack with its own cables instead of stealing from other units, I'll play around some more.
post #219 of 13494
Quote:
Originally Posted by CCDAstro View Post

That is indeed the issue with a lot, if not most, cutting edge new products. Releases are often dictated by such things as buying seasons or competing products (maybe both in this case?) so are very often not really ready. Do I buy and hope they fix it or wait until they do? I do wonder if the ability to do firmware updates is a good thing or bad. It may encourage a lax "we will fix it later" attitude. OTOH, if we did not have this ability and the product sucked, we would be in even deeper du-du. As far as I can see, there is no ideal solution right now at any price.

I do wonder why we have seen few posts from the couple of owners today:

Theory #1 - They are driving back to the store to return this POS.

Theory #2 - They are having too much fun with it to go and post.

DING DING DING DING DING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

We have a winner!

Theory #2 is correct! (for me anyway)

For my setup at this time -very happy. This is through analog out. Audio is FAR better than what I had (No - I don't know exactly what soundtrack I'm listening to)

Turned all the compression off, speakers to large, sub on, let the LEX do everything (Distances, crossover)

Could it be better (audio) ? Maybe.

This is GOOD!


Watched:
HP:POA:BR
Eagles, Farewell I:HD
Batman Begins:HD

All very nice.

SD DVD you ask?

Deadwood season 3: Clearly better than my Sony 75 or Tosh D2 (both upconvert to 720P)

I have alot of fun ahead.

Oh yeah: under the "persistant memory" menu, there are 4 or 5 "slots" to read - appears to be expandable to me!

With a FW fix, this does me for awhile.
post #220 of 13494
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrHifi View Post

I just learned the LG BH200 will not pass Dolby True HD or DTS MA or any of the advanced codecs any way as 6 channel audio. Sad but true. I get the feeling that this one may also be limited in its ability to bitstream to my Integra 9.8. Thoughts?

There are already threads on the LG BH200 which cover it's capabilities. There are also threads comparing the two dual format players and their audio. This is a Samsung owners thread. Please stick to topic.
post #221 of 13494
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Schneider View Post

DING DING DING DING DING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

We have a winner!

Theory #2 is correct! (for me anyway)

For my setup at this time -very happy. This is through analog out. Audio is FAR better than what I had (No - I don't know exactly what soundtrack I'm listening to)

Turned all the compression off, speakers to large, sub on, let the LEX do everything (Distances, crossover)

Could it be better (audio) ? Maybe.

This is GOOD!


Watched:
HP:POA:BR
Eagles, Farewell I:HD
Batman Begins:HD

All very nice.

SD DVD you ask?

Deadwood season 3: Clearly better than my Sony 75 or Tosh D2 (both upconvert to 720P)

I have alot of fun ahead.

Oh yeah: under the "persistant memory" menu, there are 4 or 5 "slots" to read - appears to be expandable to me!

With a FW fix, this does me for awhile.

Yeah, my testing earlier was at my job on one of the new Yanaha receivers.

My actual rig is using the old faithful Denon AVR 5800 as my pre-amp so I will begin to play with the analog outs tonight or tomorrow (I have been DYING to hear PCM again on my rig!!).

I will probably pick up Cast away on Mon when I go back to work and try out the DTS HDMA when I get there.

I will keep everyone posted if noone has updated by then.

I will also try the Dolby THD bitstream again on Mon. I may use a different receiver like a Denon or Integra to see if there may have been "handshaking" issues.
post #222 of 13494
Quote:
Originally Posted by cwmich View Post

I'm not sure about Spence's conspiracy theory, but I can say I'm pretty positive I bought the Display Model. It came with the little sign for it and everything. .

still playing catch up reading this thread so forgive me if someone has given a similar reply. this thread moved fast today and i wasn't able to get online until now
when i bought a 1400 it had a similar sign in the box. they had lots of units in the store and a display so i know it wasn't the display model. so i don't think that sign is indication of anything. however i do believe that the people that have reported getting the only one the store had did indeed get the one that Samsung intended to be for display. but that doesn't mean that its different in any way from the rest of the forthcoming units.
post #223 of 13494
Quote:
Originally Posted by talkdj View Post

DVD (Upscaled) - Gladiator - This looked very good (my Oppo upscaled equally as well). The Denon decoded as DD5.1.

was it just as good as the oppo or better than the oppo?
post #224 of 13494
Wish I could go on watching/listening/adjusting, then post reults.




BUT.............


'Tis the Season, and my Christmas Party for work starts in less than an hour.


If it gets TOO boring, I know I'll be up half the night with this.


I'm pleasantly surprised after some of the initial comments. My opinion is to let everybody learn their way around this new piece of equipment, get the settings right, and report back.

Have a sneaking suspicion that a FW fix will come out in the next few weeks. After that that happens, this will be THE machine to own (at least until Denon comes out with their SUPER player (DVD-A and SACD on top of what the 5000 does) at it's SUPER price point $$$$$$$$$!

Relax. Don't jump off this bandwagon less than 48 hours (36?) after the first one was seen by anybody.


Just my 2 cents.
post #225 of 13494
Quote:
Originally Posted by arbitrage000 View Post

If that is what you expect out of a 800$ player than it will be the downfall of HDM. No normal person will ever put up with this crap and there is no reason that they should not have bitstreaming working out of the box, they already have it on one of there other crappy players.

I totally agree with this.

It's simply INEXCUSABLE to bring this product to market without the bitstreaming support. This is like a bad joke. Although as I recall the 1400 was like this too -- the initial release could not bitstream lossless audio properly and then a firmware upgrade came out that enabled that capability.

Combine this with Samsung having broken 24p output from the 1400 with firmware upgrades that are *required* if you want to even play many of the most popular recent BD releases (through not one but *two* firmware releases), and, well, I'm *far* less than impressed.

The adage of not buying a product that's broken now but with a "promised" upgrade to fix it seems very appropriate here.
post #226 of 13494
Quote:
Originally Posted by haggisbingo View Post

Most other HiDef players had the same issues/FW fixes and this is not just another 3rd gen player - it's one of the first to play both formats.

Samsung's record on firmware upgrades is piss-poor.

Ask those of us who have now been waiting 2 months for a fix to the 24p output that they broke with firmware two versions ago.

Also it's quite clear that they view this player as a Blu-Ray player with HD DVD capabilities, so all their previous "expertise" should apply here for at least the BD side. In my book they do not get a free pass just because they added HD DVD playback for this model.
post #227 of 13494
Quote:
Originally Posted by strutter View Post

was it just as good as the oppo or better than the oppo?

I would have to give the Oppo (980) a very very slight edge in the upscaling department.
post #228 of 13494
Could it be that the so-called 2400 which was "supposedly" cancelled to give more resources and research towards the 5000, is actually vice-versa:

They cancelled the 5000 and re-badged the lesser 2400 as a 5000. It would make sense, this is (was) meant to be the "be all and end all" and make format neutral people envied. As it stands, this is missing many things that would make it top-tier.

The point that I believe many have raised is that they have "future-proofed" receivers, HDTVs and this was going to be last piece in their puzzle - not so. I guess we wait for the "professional" reviews from next week (this in no way diminishes the information provided by the lucky few todate - thank you).

My personal opinion - as it stands, this is a dud (prove me wrong...please!!!). But please don't quote: "the next firmware will fix this and that...".

EDIT:
Just so I don't get flamed by anyone: The above is not aimed at the so-called "general public" who supposedly don't know the difference. The above is also not aimed at putting down the lucky few with this unit!!
post #229 of 13494
So how does this player handle going from playing BD->HD-DVD, or vice versa?
Seamless?
post #230 of 13494
Quote:
Originally Posted by QuentinH View Post

I'm leaning toward BD30/A35 right now...but, I'd like to see more reviews and info on multiple movies. I'd also like a confirmation on onboard memory.

This is the combo I have right now (BD30/A35) and I am 100% satisfied...I have the Pioneer Elite 94TXH receiver (which does bitstream) amd both players actually work!... I was originally waiting for this Samsung 5000 model, but knew as with the 1400, it would have issues...Glad I blew it off!...
post #231 of 13494
Wow, all the rash condemnations in here...and the thing hasn't even reached my local UPS hub yet. Try to relax, folks.
post #232 of 13494
Quote:
Originally Posted by sammywhammy007 View Post

Sounds like this player has 'issues'. Looks like BBFB hasn't shipped my order yet so I think I am canning that Mon morning and also canning the pre-order with 1 call.
I think I am gonna go the BD30/A35 route. I don't wanna drop $800 on a player that has problems.

A "very" wise decision my good man!...
post #233 of 13494
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheHDMan View Post

A "very" wise decision my good man!...

Who said "very"? Who are you quoting? Churchill? Stalin? Was it Sileas? I'm just trying to get the context.

Just kidding.
post #234 of 13494
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinnie97 View Post

Wow, all the rash condemnations in here...and the thing hasn't even reached my local UPS hub yet. Try to relax, folks.

I think I am beginning to understand the psychology of a lynch mob. I for one need a lot more facts to make (or not make) a purchase of this nature. I agree with Vinnie that we should be a little more patient.
post #235 of 13494
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan TN View Post

I think I am beginning to understand the psychology of a lynch mob. I for one need a lot more facts to make (or not make) a purchase of this nature. I agree with Vinnie that we should be a little more patient.

Some folks will just never get it. Look at the 1400 model. As far as I'm concerned it's a piece of junk...(tried 2 of them and returned them)... and yet there are some people coming on here saying it's a great player. I am sure you will see folks come on here and say the 5000 is a great player too. (probably work for Samsung)...The reality is the Panny BD30 is the best player for blu-ray and the HD-A35/XA2 are the best for HD-DVD...Period. I actually prefer the A35 over the XA2.
post #236 of 13494
By all means, enjoy your players....belitting this player isn't the purpose of this thread. Accusing those who find satisfaction in a previous generation Samsung Blu-Ray player as being shills/Samsung employees is bordering on the tin foil conspiracy side of things. I'm sorry your experience was so horrid but you simply can't be so positive that this necessarily bodes ill for this player, which people have had for 2 days max? I haven't heard any complaints about PQ yet, and that's the majority of the functionality in this player.
post #237 of 13494
So I've had the player for a few hours now... I only have two HD DVD movies (Transformers and King Kong) so I'm limited in what I can test as far as audio types. On that note, can someone recommend a good BD and HD that has TrueHD and/or DTS-MA so I can test those out.

The unit came with the video setting as 1080i, I went into the setup discovered a 24p option, turned it on, TV said 1080p/24, video setting on the Samsung still said 1080i, bumped it to 1080p and found it had turned 24p off, so I had to turn it on again. Watched a little bit of Transformers, looked and sounded great, watching King Kong now, looks great as well. Audio is set to bitstream audiophile currently. My receiver is the Denon AVR-4308, I believe both discs are DD+ audio tracks, the receiver still only says DD (not sure if it is even supposed to show DD+)

I only watched two SD DVDs for a few minutes and they looked OK (Star Wars Episode II and a burned DVD+R DL).

I timed the load time of King Kong from tray close to Universal logo playing at 50 seconds. I'm not sure how that compares to other players, I really never paid attention to that stuff.

As far as glitches or quirks go, the player makes a weird noise after turning it on and when loading a disc but I hear nothing out of the ordinary while a disc is playing. The unit did seem to wig out when I tried to fast forward during Transformers. I'm used to blasting through DVDs with my Denon DVD-2900 without problem, however, on this unit (and on the XBox HD DVD drive), it seemed to have problems fast forwarding. On the Samsung the video became jerky and even after pausing and resuming at regular speed it remained very jerky until I changed the chapter.

More feedback as I have more time to play with it...
post #238 of 13494
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheHDMan View Post

I am sure you will see folks come on here and say the 5000 is a great player too. (probably work for Samsung)...The reality is the Panny BD30 is the best player for blu-ray and the HD-A35/XA2 are the best for HD-DVD...Period. I actually prefer the A35 over the XA2.

then why bother reading, or posting for that matter in the Dual Format Players forum?
post #239 of 13494
Quote:
Originally Posted by hifi View Post

So I've had the player for a few hours now... I only have two HD DVD movies (Transformers and King Kong) so I'm limited in what I can test as far as audio types. On that note, can someone recommend a good BD and HD that has TrueHD and/or DTS-MA so I can test those out.

The unit came with the video setting as 1080i, I went into the setup discovered a 24p option, turned it on, TV said 1080p/24, video setting on the Samsung still said 1080i, bumped it to 1080p and found it had turned 24p off, so I had to turn it on again. Watched a little bit of Transformers, looked and sounded great, watching King Kong now, looks great as well. Audio is set to bitstream audiophile currently. My receiver is the Denon AVR-4308, I believe both discs are DD+ audio tracks, the receiver still only says DD (not sure if it is even supposed to show DD+)

How is your unit connected? HDMI I suppose?
post #240 of 13494
Quote:
Originally Posted by qz3fwd View Post

So how does this player handle going from playing BD->HD-DVD, or vice versa?
Seamless?

whadjusay? i couldnt hear the 1st sentence
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