BD-UP5000 Universal Player Samsung [OFFICIAL OWNERS THREAD] & FAQ - Page 11

When you get to read my post above, it's not even close. Even my girlfriend, who's definitely not a sharp eye, was telling me the picture sucks compared to the A2... I'm hoping it's just some sort of incompatibility issue between my Sharp Aquos and the UP5000 and that these problems will not show up on the other 2 displays I own.

One other thing I forgot to mention : I tried 1080i output also and it was the same problem as in 1080p.

1) uh... I said nothing about bitstream over HDMI. Sorry, not my area as I do not have equipment for that.
2) again, no HDMI audio for me, no idea.
3) We are hoping for the analog multichannel TrueHD and DTS-MA. Somewhere someone saw something about a firmware update statement in January for DTS-HD MA, but I haven't seen it.

Motorboating (not boarding -sorry if I typo'd that). Not the best term, but it's a term. To hear what it sounds like, sing a nice smooth note and hold it while you flap your lips up and down with your finger (do this in private lest you be looked upon strangely by coworkers, friends, and family). Motorboating. Audio, as heard modulated by the sound of a motorboat.

From what I have read so far in this thread, there are more issues to worry about with video playback than sound. I say this because I am not very worried about the sound issue because my good friend bought a Sammy 1400 and within 4 days of Samsung releasing the player for sale (he bought it the day it came out), Samsung released firmware to allow for Dolby True HD and DTS HD(and MA). That player also came out playing Dolby True in 2 channel. It was fixed on that firmware. They promised that on this player, and I truly believe they would not release a player like this with Dolby True 2 channel, and keep it that way. Why they didn't set it up from the start to decode completely is beyond me. Same with the 1400. I agree that the firmware company is probably at fault here for being very slow and this has probably frustrated Samsung too.

I need my soundtracks to come through the analogs right now, no HDMI on my Denon. I am going to wait and see what the firmware situation is, but I bet it's a-comin'. In the meantime, I have my PS3, which upscales better than most blu-ray players I have seen, in fact I think it's one of the best out there. Trouble is, since no HDMI receiver, no lossless either and no DTS HD update from Sony, though its been announced a 1.1 profile update is coming in about a week, maybe that will have DTS HD. As for being able to play hd-dvd, it's no big rush for me because there are very few movies available I am excited about, for some reason, most of the ones I want are blu-released films.

So I am going to sit in the sidelines and watch the reviews and see how the firmware issue goes. I have the feeling we will be seeing some other combi players at CES too, but how long before those come out is another question. And how many will have 7.1 analog outputs and the Reon? I bet not many. It will also be interesting to see what physically what memory is actually inside the player. This player was announced in the summer of '07, so it surprises me that there are issues with that long period to work on. But judging from the very fast firmware for the 1400, I have hope.

1.) Yes, PCM (and DD+) tracks should work Great on this unit 5.1-7.1 for analog and bitstream.
2.) TrueHD tracks are supported in the hardware for multi-channel 5.1-7.1 but not in the software yet.
3.) DTS-MA not determined yet by what I've read so far.

Dumb one, but do you know the HDMI level of the A2? Maybe you are seeing more detail due to deep color on 1.3a? What does your Aquos do? Also, are you running at 24p?

I was going to do some image comparisons with the Xbox360 1080p60 output, I guess I'll do that soon too.

I too would like to know about the video but am not concerned about the upscaling of Standard DVDs as I have a Crystallio II that will do that very well.

I am not clear on the Reon, but I thought that it only came into play when deinterlacing and/or upscaling standard DVDs or downscaling HD discs. If I am wrong about this, please enlighten me.

I am especially eager to see what eurotrance has to say about it when hooked to the RS1 as that is my main display.

To be fair, Sileas, I think he was just sizing up all the information ascertained from all owners who have contributed so far. Thanks for all the fascinating technical information, by the way!


Why not direct him to the posts where it's been confirmed several times instead of exhibiting sour grapes?

Newbie here with flame suit on. If I have a Onkyo 805 1.3 HDMI avr and run everything HDMI am I going to get all of the new audio formats?

Unfortunately, I think they're distinctly different (more techno-jargon to confuse even knowledgable consumers!) with DTS-HD the lesser (and lossier) of the two:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DTS-HD#...solution_Audio
also this article talks about this DTS-HD limitation in the LG BH200 duo player:
http://www.ultimateavmag.com/hddiscp...00/index2.html
quote:"...makes no distinction between lossy DTS-HD High resolution and lossless DTS-HD Master Audio. Whenever you see the shorthand designation DTS-HD, always assume that the reference is to lossy DTS-HD High Resolution, and not to its lossless DTS-HD MA sibling."

Doh! Saw the question about motorboating to me and then missed a pronoun in there somewhere. I should go to bed.

I appreciate all the audio stuff (about 9/10 of this thread so far) but now lets do the same with the video portion as well. I'm sure we'll get some
excellent detailed observations from the new owners.

HDMI is 1.2 on the A2. Deep color is just a buzz word for now, nobody can use it. Also, HDMI level should absolutely not matter.

What I'm talking about is not about detail. This is moving black dots all over bright areas of the picture, almost like digital noise or some kind of decoding artifact. Yes I had to look really close to my screen to actually see that it was crawling dots, but even from 5-6 feet, you can tell there's something wrong with the picture.

I picked up my 5000 at Best Buy in Salinas, CA yesterday. I was feeling pretty good, walk in asked if they had any in stock, the manager said they had one that just came in that day. I bought it with a 12 % discount coupon. I took it home and opened up the box and realized this unit was to be a floor model. It had a display sign in the box.

Hooked it up to my system, HDMI to my Sony XBR2, optical audio to my Onyko 803. Here is my very limited, non-technical review after watching one Blue Ray movie (Ratatouille), the first part of a HD DVD (Shooter) and the first part of a SD DVD (Bourne Ultimatium). Her goes:

The Good

1. Great Picture. Really takes advantage of the full 1080P of my XBR2
2. Great Audio. Much better then my Pioneer Ellite 47.
3. Great Upconversion. Bourne Ultimatium look great not HD but better then my Pioneer Ellite 47

Issues :

1. While watching the Blue Ray Disk (Ratatoulle) I noticed the camera angle icon consistentantly appearing for no apparent reason. When the icon appeared, there was a small clitch in the audio for a very brief moment. The icon would remain on screen from 30 seconds to over a minute. This would happen 10 or more times during the movie. I thought because I did not follow the instructions for setup, but rather hooked up the player and put in the disk, that was the cause of the problem. I went through the setup and setup the audio and all other settings as instructed. I replayed the disk again and the camera angle icon appeared again. I did not watch the entire movie again.

2. When starting a movie (Blue Ray Ratatoulle) during the downloading mode, the download graphic in the middle of the screen was clear but on each side oof the graphic there were some very wierd colors with pulsating bands. I should point out this only happen once. I had to re-sart the movie again to correct the problem.

3. While watching the Blue Ray disk, the remote control and the controls on the player consistently locked up and became inoperable. This usually happens when you attempt to stop the movie and try to re-start. One this happens you cannot stop the movie or use any of the controls on the remote except the power button. The only way to stop the movie is to power down the player. The instructions states that when this happens, remove the batteries from the remote and hold down on one or two buttons for 1-2 minutes to discharge the micro-processors in the remote. It seems to work.


I should note. that these problems don't seem to happen when watching a HD DVD. Although, I have only watched 2-5 minutes of the HD DVD, the remote seemed to work fine and the camera angle icon did not appear. I was not able to stop the player and resume where I left off. I don't know if this was because of the particular scene of the movie or the disk, as the instruction manual states, or if this is a problem with the player or the remote.

I will be watching the entire HD DVD (Shooter) tonight and be watching very closely for any of the issues I noticed while watching the Blue Ray Disk (Ratatoule).

I really think these issues can be corrected with a software up date. I will be calling Samsung tomorrow and talk to their technical service people and see what they have to say.

I have a question for everyone out there. If these problems are resolved, and I decide to keep the 5000, would you purchase the 4-year extended warranty from Best Buy for $79.00? I think I would to prevent future problems and also the possiblity of 2-3 years from now exchanging the player for the replacement model if the unit cannot be repaired.

I was so excited yesterday to score one of these players and I am still optimistic that the issues can be resolved.

I will post an update after I have had chance ot use the player more.

I am sorry for the non-technical review, but this is my first take after using the Samsung BD-UP5000 for a little less then 24 hours.

Jon

Time for primary sources since wikipedia is in internal conflict...
http://www.dts.com/dts-hd/dts-on-bluray-and-hddvd.php

Looks like it is DTS-HD x, where x is either Master Audio (lossless) or High Resolution Audio (lossy), so the mention of DTS-HD on the product brief is either inclusive or (intentionally or unintentionally) ambigious.

Anyone else detecting this

Isn't that some sort of multiangle camera indicator? DVD does the same thing when alternate angles are available. Anyone experience that on other Bluray players?

Ok, either my unit is defective or there is some kind of incompatibility with my 46" Sharp Aquos. I'll try it on my 70" XBR2 tonight and see what happens.

When you say XBR2, are you talking about a flat panel LCD XBR2 or a projection LCOS like mine ?

Where did you find the new XA2? Was the price discounted?

Kdl 40 Xbr2 Lcd

I just went from Transformers on Xbox360 to the 5000 and then back again. The differences are 1080p60 on the 360, and 1080p24 on the 5000.

I have a BenQ W10000, 8 feet wide (110 inch). Extremely sharp projector.

Between the two, I see almost no difference, except that the 24p has a slightly more consistant film grain. Having been a projectionist for 10 years, what I am seeing is what I expect from film originated sources in HD.

I suppose I could say what I am seeing sort of looks like crawly black dots, but it is clearly film grain to me.

What happens when you pause? Do they stop? Have you tried something that was not originated on film, such as Apocalypto or a Pixar film? Also, do you have Digital Video Essentials? Put that in and look at the test patterns. I did this earlier, and everything looked fine, but I still need to compare to the 360.

Greetings, all!
I would like to chime in and thank SileasResearch as well!
I think we are all lucky that he was one of the first to get this unit, and has the time and inclination to "break it down" for us non technophiles. I have seen a lot of techtalk on these boards, and although not a dullard, have found myself scratching my head at times. I seem to actually be understanding most of his posts, and have a better understanding of the issues with the advanced codecs, and how they may be addressed to work properly for all of the current owners and soon to be (mine arrives tomorrow)!
I have a Denon 3808ci, and want to be able to pass the advanced codecs to the receiver if the Sammy 5K won't process them. I suppose I should get on the Denon owner's thread for any details on that, but a quick check over there has not shown any reports of owners having the 5K yet....
Again, I appreciate the effort taken to share your experience and expertise!
Please keep "banging on the products"!
Best,
snowtrooper1966

Not I, said the goose.

Eurotrance, any more on this? Do you have a different HDMI cable to try?

I'm starting to get the impression that there may be "incompatibility" issues - it works better with some displays than others. (be gentle!)

No clue why that would be though.

This is slightly off-topic, but despite the fact that you "need" a 1.3 receiver and player to send bitstream signals, has anyone ever tried to bitstream with a 1.2 version receiver from a 1.3 version player? I ask because it's apparently possible to transmit 1080p/24 and DTS MA bitstream between the two using a version 1.2 switcher.

Anybody care to take a stab at that one?

Sorry for the side question but this thread seemed like it could use a little levity. :-)

I see it now. I have the pixel clock and phase test image up from DVE right now, and there are two differences between the 5000 and the Xbox360:

1) the 360 (at 1080p60) has an issue of some sort that produces a faint positive slope diagonal line through the image, most noticeable on the right middle dot pattern

2) the 5000 (at 1080p24) does not have the diagonal line (probably at 24 - 60 artifact), but it does have the black crawling as reported. I had to get close. Added note: the Samsung in 60p does not have the 360's weird line either.

When I put the pixel phase back up on the 360 and look at the grey (not dot pattern) areas, I can definitely see that there are subtle, but static, variations in the pixel grey levels. Some are a tad brighter than others, but they sit absolutely still.

Looking at the Samsung logo screen, it looks like it is in there too, but it's hard to tell.

I switched off the 24p mode, and it still appears to be there.

I wonder if this is an HDMI noise issue, since it looks like dithering of the low bit. I have equalizers in one of my HDMI switches, I may give that a try to see if it makes a difference.

I have got to nap for a bit. My eyes are pretty tired, and I'm getting a headache starring at dots.

FYI, both units (360 and 5000) are going through the same Zektor MAS71 switch with the same brand of cable. Just wanted to make sure I made that clear. Bypassing the switch and going directly from the 5000 to the projector makes no difference.

Folks after getting all depressed about the problem issues being reported about this UP5000 and looking at separate players for BD and HD-DVD, I see just as many feature limitations and buggy issues with the Panasonic BD30 and Toshiba A35 units I was considering as an alternative. So nothing looks good for my needs. (e.g. - the Panny BD30 does not decode internally to analog outs, The Toshiba does not do DTS-HD-MA?, has issues playing discs, etc.) So I am about to give up and maybe wait it out until someone comes out with a decent glitch free dual player. And I am an impatient one that wants to buy something now... what torture!

A couple things before I sleep:

1) Did anyone see this crawling grey dot issue on the LG BH200 (same Broadcom chip) before any firmware updates (if there were any)?
2) Anyone see this on any other Samsung player with or without the HQV stuff?
3) Is this the weird problem people saw with the first Bluray players that made them look soft?

Zzzzzzzzz.

I do have other HDMI cables, however since the A2 offers a perfect picture with that same cable, I'm sure it's not the cable.

As far as more tests, I'm at work until 8pm tonight so that will have to wait for me to be back home.

Things I will do tonight :

1) pause the picture to see if the black crawling dots are still there or stop moving
2) try the components outputs to see if it's the same
3) hook it up to my 70" XBR2 Lcos to see if I get the same problems
4) if it's not too late (I have to get up at 5am tomorrow to go back to work), try it on my RS1

Since SileasResearch doesn't seem to experience the same picture defect, either my unit is defective or there's some kind of incompatibility with the Sharp. I would tend to go with option number 1, as technically option 2 is close to impossible.

Hmmm... So I guess all UP5000 units will show the same defect.

To me it's something I can't live with. It's not rendering the picture soft, but actually making it overly grainy, for lack of a better term. I can live with film grain, but not added digital grain.

If that thing doesn't get a firmware update before 01/31/08 that corrects this, back to Best Buy it goes. What sucks is that I already promised to sell my A2 to a friend.

So does thing qualify for any of the free HD DVD and/or Blu-ray movie deals? I haven't seen anything mentioned anywhere so I would assume no, but I figure I would ask anyway.

Thank you very much for reporting this video issue. My wife and I have an RS1 with a 120" High Power screen, so I'm very interested to read what you say about the image when the 5000 is driving the RS1. (I hope you send 1080p @ 24 fps.) If you see the same thing, or worse, on the RS1, that will mark the end of our consideration of the 5000.

Do you have a BD, by any chance? If so, does its image show the same problem? (Apocalypto from PS3 1080p @24 looks perfect on the RS1 + HPpower, so if you own, or can rent or borrow that disk, it would make a good one to test the 5000's BD image.)

Thanks again for taking the trouble to report what you see.