BD-UP5000 Universal Player Samsung [OFFICIAL OWNERS THREAD] & FAQ - Page 220

Larry,

They have communicated. They said they would have a fix in May. Last time I looked at the calendar, it was till April!

I am not a fan of multi channel,But I am a fan of quality 2 channel with my Focal Alto Be.I will either keep my dedicated blu-ray and get a separate CD player or try out the new Marantz blu-ray.But I am happy with my 5000 for now.

For the price and the quality of blu-ray and SD there is nothing close IMHO.

Would you guys recommed a refur BD-UP5000 for $362 or new for $480 from Costco?

But nothing official. No status on the 5000's web pages (there's a place for "news"), no FAQs or knowledge base entries for the 5000 .....

Reports of a May update came through people that spoke with Mr Lee at CES or Samsung customer service. There have been many similar reports from customer service that span the gamut of possibilities: no updates, to an update in a week or two.

What I find truly "interesting" is that Broadcom seems to be boasting about their chip and the software stack:

"Choosing a solution that is based on field-proven technology already shipping in existing platforms from leading OEMs will ensure full Blu-ray/HD DVD compatibility."

"Robust and proven universal optical disc (UOD) software stack reduces development risks and supports all Blu-ray and HD DVD profiles" (My emphasis)

However, as others have said, it is NOT May yet. And the reports we did get didn't specify beginning or end of May!

The reports that the BH200 does not decode DTS HD MA internally (only bitstream via HDMI) may be a reason we haven't seen an update for the 5000. A player that has multichannel analog outs really needs to decode all flavors of audio internally.

Blu-Ray and HD DVD players are by no means in the mainstream of consumer spending. I suspect that relying on Broadcom's software stack was the only way for LG and Samsung to get a product to market and still make some money. Switching gears to in-house software development would probably delay future software years since Samsung most likely does not have access to Broadcom's source code.

I would be happy if I could just get 5.1 DD outta disks that have TrueHD, couldn't they of made the audio an option vs 2 channel? in a firmware update?

I tried outputting TrueHD last week w/ the 5k set to output PCM. Last night, I switched it to audiophile because I wanted to see the kewl TrueHD indicator light up on the receiver. However, it still showed PCM. Maybe the 5k has to be power-cycled for changes like this to take effect?

I also noticed that it was still set to output 1080i, although I changed it to 1080p a few days ago. I remember reading that this might be an HDMI handshake issue, but the TV and the AVR were already on when I powered on the 5k. The AVR passes through 1080p, and the TV accepts 1080p. Any ideas?

Thanks,
Doug

Did you follow the TV, then AVR, then 5000? Mine kept resetting to 1080i as well until I followed that order of turning on my tv, avr and player.

Did Ph8te hear back from Mr. Lee of Samsung?

Has anyone else bothered to email him directly?

The 5000 does not output TrueHD, multichannel, two-channel, analog, optical, HDMI -- nothing. It converts TrueHD to PCM and then outputs PCM in two-channels. Can't do anything about it. There is no "TrueHD" quality to the output.

As for the reversion to 1080i, two things could be causing it: (1) not having the display and the AVR on first; or (2) interference from the AVR's video processing function. In my case, it was the latter. I have an Integra 8.8. As soon as I bypassed all video processing from the receiver by setting it to "through" mode and disabling the on-screen display, the reversion problem went away. Another way to avoid the problem is to disable 24fps mode. On my 8.8, the 5000 stayed at 1080p, even with AVR video processing on, if 24fps was disabled.

Given your description, I'd start with turning off the OSD and see if that does it. The OSD still adds information to the video stream, even if the AVR is otherwise set to "through."

I think the 5000 always sends 2.0 from the TrueHD core to the receiver as PCM via HDMI even in Audiophile mode.

There are many scenarios where a new handshake may occur. The most likely is simply changing inputs on the TV or AVR. When you switch back to the 5000 a new handshake will occur. This normally doesn't cause a problem but it's possible for the new handshake to bump the 5000 to 1080i.

I've noticed the 5000 has changed to 1080i on its own a couple of times too even though I don't power up the 5000 with the rest of my gear. No clues as to why this happens. It turns out that 1080i vs p doesn't make a big difference. The TV since the display runs at 60p, so deinterlacing occurs somewhere in the chain any way and the TV seems to do a pretty good job of detecting 3:2 pull-down on the fly.

One other thing: After one of the software updates, the display resolution was not staying at 1080p. I can't recall now if it returned to 1080i after exiting the setup menu or after a power cycle. I found that if I waited a few seconds before exiting the display resolution menu, all was well.

Last time I checked Broadcom site (not too long ago) for information on the chipset, I see no mentioned of supporting of any advanced audio codecs. All Broadcom boasting about is video processing and two DSPs. There is nothing, hardware wise, in the chipset to help decoding the audio. They are entirely dependent on the software running on those embedded DSPs to decode the Audio. That's the impression I got.

A quote from the product briefing for the BCM7440:

"Next generation audio processor with support for multi channel, high bit rate codecs, mixing, and re-encoding capabilities"

Use of the word "support" is kind of ambiguous, but it could confirm your hypothesis.

There's nothing too ambiguous about it. They didn't name any specific advanced audio codec decoding support. The functionality you quoted above is required minimum functionality for HD DVD support (and BD 1.1 support) for playback AFTER you decoded them. From what LG BH200's latest firmware could offer, we can see those two DSPs barely have enough power to fully decode multi-channel TrueHD.

Well, I'm not too sure that that is a proper interpretation either. The reference to "multi channel, high bit rate codecs" certainly is not referring to DD or DTS. The reference is superfluous in your construction.

Costco has one of the most liberal return policies ever. You'd have to decide for yourself if NEW + Costco's return policy is worth $120.


Ph8te scurried off but I suspect he would have posted here if he got a response.

I haven't as I don't want to bombard him but am silently hoping someone else active to this thread has already done so.

They have NEVER said this in ANY sort of official capacity. The only way we know about the supposed "May" update is from people who have contacts inside Samsung that gave "inside information," and we have NO idea how reliable this is. Keep in mind that similar "insiders" at Samsung, as well as numerous tech support reps, have given all sorts of different dates as to when fixes will be available -- we recently passed another one of these dates recently without any word from Samsung. We've also heard a LOT of conflicting information on what may or may not be fixed on this unit at any point. Throughout all this, however, Samsung has NEVER publicly said that they'll have an update in May. The May update was simply the most reliable

On top of this, one thing that Samsung DID officially say a while back in a press release was that the BD 1.1 update would be available in Feb 08. You're correct that your calendar says "April," but Feb was two months ago, and we still have no BD 1.1 update.

I'm still optimistic that we will in fact see an update in May that takes care of the issues that plague the 5000. The recent LG update proves that the Broadcom chipset that the 5000 uses is capable of providing all the features that are currently missing on the 5000, so I'm relatively confident that we will eventually see similar capabilities from the 5000. This does not change the fact, however, that officially, Samsung has been UTTERLY silent on all these issues, and has indeed never communicated with it's consumers on these matters.

Larry

I will admit that fixing the Dolby True HD decoding/bitstreaming was the place to focus. That should provide multichannel audio from all discs. However, the LG only bitstreams DTS HD.

So it doesn't bitstream TrueHD? But at least it's 5.1 trueHD right? I'm thinking if LG's can't fix multichannel trueHD, i wonder if samsung's will.

I think you misunderstood kwindrem's statement. The LG will decode or bitstream everything except DTS-HD and DTS-MA. For DTS-HD and DTS-MA, it will bitstream but not decode.

hopefully, that's what is causing the delay of the 5000 firmware; that they are working on on-board decoding for those 2 formats, thereby increasing the value of the analog outs.*

*wishful thinking, ladies and gents

Vinnie, that was your 1500th post!

+1

Also, congrats on #1500! (or does it just mean you're addicted to the forum?)

*bows* It means the BD-UP5000 plus AVSForum = life-sucking combination.

Thanks to all for feedback on my 2 issues. BTW, when I first reported that I tried TrueHD into my new AVR, I erroneously stated that the AVR wouldn't apply a surround matrix because the 5k was sending all channels although only 2 were "populated." Of course that's incorrect. I looked at the AVR's display, and the 5k is only sending 2 channels. I guess the AVR doesn't apply surround matrices to PCM sources.

Regarding, the switch to 1080i, I conscientiously followed the power up cycle last night, and the 5k retained the 1080p setting. It's possible, kwindrem, that your last paragraph might describe my situation. I'll play with it some more.

And, I agree that there's little (if any) difference between 1080i and 1080p into my TV. I just figure it's better to let the 5k send the full 1080p and let the TV downscale to 768p. I believe this is preferable deinterlacing to 1080i, then re-interlacing by the TV prior to downscaling.

PS I finally heard an uncompressed track the other night when we watched Becoming Jane. Although the movie was so-so, the soundtrack was amazing - detail, clarity, precise imaging, and lifelike sound throughout.

Regards,
Doug

Well, the stereo downmix is not matrixed for surround sound, so anything your AVR extracted would be artificial anyway (like playing stereo music through a surround sound matrix). So you're not missing too much there; my AVR can run PCM stereo through Pro Logic, but it doesn't do much useful on a TrueHD downmix besides extracting dialog to the center channel.

By the way, does anybody else feel that TrueHD is very quiet? The only one I've tried so far is Gattaca, and I felt like I needed almost 20dB more volume than DD or DTS! (I'm using SPDIF, btw.)



Definitely; if your TV accepts 1080p, send that. On some sets, interlaced signals cause a lot of motion blur (like our ViewSonic LCD at work). Even if your set handles it well, deinterlacing is a tricky process that can have mistakes; best to avoid it if you can.

(By the way, "interlacing" makes the signal interlaced, while "deinterlacing" reconstructs full frames from interlaced fields. So if you send 1080i, the 5K interlaces and then the TV deinterlaces.)



I'm not upgrading to an HDMI AVR until we get our audio codec update. I don't want to know what I'm missing yet!

On my system with couple of TrueHD discs, I don't feel trueHD tracks are that much quiet than DD. I'm using bookshielf speakers as my fronts BTW. Maybe the missing LFE channel cause your particular setup big drop in volume? But 20db is a lot! On average, TrueHD tracks are slightly lower volume than the DD counter parts because of the greater dynamic range of TrueHD tracks.

Gattaca is a dialog-heavy movie. Perhaps the reason I needed to turn it up so much is because the dematrixed center wasn't as loud/clear as a discrete center?

As far as the missing LFE goes, there was still quite a bit of bass present. If anything, the bass was disproportionately loud, not quiet.

If nobody else is noticing such a dramatic volume reduction with TrueHD, maybe it's just this movie.


My 500th post!

Oh joy! Well, after nearly a month of waiting while my 5000 was out being serviced, my player arrived today. Guess what? It STILL won't play Fox BDs!!! Then I call and have to tell my story and go through the whole process through a level 1 and two level 2 techs. They all ask what the problem is and I explain to all of them that I've been down this road and the player has been sent back in for service and still doesn't work. "Are you running the latest firmware?" "Have you tried other copies of the movies?", etc. They pulled up the report from the service center..."The technician reports that there's nothing wrong with the player." I guess I'm a liar then...

So, I can't relay just how frustrated I am. They said all that I can do is send it back in for service...AGAIN!!! At least they are paying for the shipping this go-around. I can say that this is the last Samsung product I'll ever buy. It's a great player when it works, but I guess I won't get to experience that for another month...if they actually fix it instead of just reboxing and shipping it back...

That sux. Sounds like a lemon you got there. Hopefully this other time around, you'll get a working one. Wish you good luck! If the 5k is working, it's really a great machine.