RS2/ PRO-FPJ1 Owners: Setup Discussion Thread - Page 95

Using pixel adjust I can get only a portion of the screen to have acceptable red convergence (green and blue are within 1/2 pixel of eachother at their worst points). For example, the way I have it right now, the center and upper center of the screen have good convergence; the left 1/4 of the screen has red that is off by almost 2 pixels horizontally at the extremes and just over a pixel vertically; the bottom portion of the screen is off by over 1 pixel vertically; the right 1/4 of the screen is off by over 1 pixel vertically and 1 pixel horizontally. Some projectors (such as Sonys) offer optical correction that allow 0.1 per-color pixel adjustment in zones, however that has its pluses and minuses. Uber-expensive projectors like Art's HT5000 allow the panels to be physically re-aligned, which, in the proper hands, can yield some outstanding results - IIRC his convergence is just about spot on across the entire screen.


Glad to be back Hopefully I'll actually be stateside long enough to enjoy this for a while now...

If I couldn't see the issue with real-world material, I wouldn't think twice about it. My two RS1s had some slight misconvergence that was noticeable with single-pixel test patterns but not with real-world stuff; it's egregiously noticeable on both with this FPJ1.

Hopefully the service center can help me out one way or the other - I'd be surprised if they could actually tweak the panel alignment, usually it seems that this kind of issue is resolved by replacing the unit. But hey, as long as the problem is permanently fixed, I don't care how they do it!

How large are the increments with pixel adjust?

Thanks!

Tom

One pixel I think. Too coarse IMO. At least they should provider finer adjustments in service menu.

Yes, they are 1 pixel increments - IIRC the actual DILA panels are slightly larger than 1920x1080, so the image can be shifted up/down/left/right on each panel in order to improve convergence if it's off. In the past on my 2nd RS1 it came in handy and I had GREAT convergence - in fact I remember hope I wouldn't take a step back in that area by upgrading to my FPJ1

The only way to achieve <1 pixel adjustments are the ones I mentioned before - optical and panel re-alignment. The optical method can be quite effective, however there has been some debate as to whether it causes image softening because of the way it works. Panel re-alignment can't be performed by anyone but the factory for most projectors, as the tolerances are so small and tight that the mechanism to do so on the user end (again, like on the HT5000) are quite expensive.

Whats an exceptable amount of misconvergence? My red is pretty good in the middle and the right, but goes off about a whole pixel on the left. The red is also on in the middle but goes off about 1/2 on the top and bottom. I too thought it would be at least as good as my RS1, but its not. I guess we had really good RS1's...

For me an acceptable amount of misconvergence is 0 at screen central, what affects the lens has as you move out from there is what it is. I believe JVC's tolerance is 1 pixel but don't know if this encompasses misalignment anywhere on the screen or just the central portion. I've often wondered if these PJ's units are adjusted to near perfection at the factory and most mis-alignment, at screen central, problems are the result of handling and shipping or are the panels affixed so rigidly that it's impossible for them to be aligned or misaligned by jarring. With the incredibly small tolerances we're talking about here you'd think massaging the PJ with a few well placed whacks might provide alignment benefits. Think I'll give it a try tonight.

Look forward to your results!

I've owned 5 projectors including RS1, RS20 - and none had "0" mis convergence at screen central. Not even close. Seems convergence is always a compromise w/ 3 panel systems (at least it has been for me). However as long as the convergence is "reasonable" and not noticeable from my seated position I'm happy.

A guy in Italy who has a friend who is a JVC dealer opened up a whole shipment (approx 18?) RS20's and convergence was all over the place. The lucky guy was able to choose the very best one for himself. Now that's a good friend to have (I'm extremely jealous)

Agree, I never said it's easily doable just that I find misconvergence unacceptable. The chance of finding a pj with perfect convergence is not dis-similar to the probability of me ending up with something I find acceptable in most aspects of this hobby. I still think they should do better in this department or at least include some wood block wedges so the well intentioned DIY'er could jam a few behind the panels to get them better aligned.


That dealer should be stoned, that's the very reason those of us with far greater deserved entitlement don't even have a chance of getting anything but the hind teet. I presume the dealer then offered significant discounts on the remaining used/demo inventory. Let me guess, they opened the boxes from the bottom, retaped the boxes and sold them as new to unsuspecting buyers.

I read this thread from top to bottom and unless I missed something you can't focus using red. Is this correct? Is there a test pattern on a test disc etc. that is best to evaluate and adjust convergence using the projectors pixel adjustment? Also, can using horizontal shift on the Pioneer cause some convergence issues? I was thrilled with my Pioneer for the last couple of months and was never bothered by the red convergence being off until Hogpilot mentioned his problem. Now. I can't stop looking for convergence problems when watching a movie. Red errors up to 1 pixel in different parts of the screen are sometimes visible when watching movies.

Thanks,
Tom

The best pattern is the grid, not the built in grid, all white grid.
My FPJ1 is only off 1/3 all over the screen uniformly but I don't remember which.
I will look again and report back.

My primary intent in posting about my FPJ1's misconvergence was to document the process of getting this thing fixed since it's more or less a dead model, and people have asked what Pioneer would do to cover the warranty in this kind of situation.

Any 3-chip unit is going to have some level of misconvergence - the question is whether it is uniform or not, and whether the max level affects the PQ of real world material at normal viewing distances. I'm not trying to start a wave of paranoia about the issue, and it seems that people haven't really had any major problems with it on a statistically significant level with the FPJ1.

Is this all white grid on a test disc? I have Digital Video Essentials on blu-ray and Avia on dvd.

Thanks,
Tom

Try a Sony BD disc.

Too late!!!!

Get the BD version as stated.
There are other patterns that you will use later.
I only have the very basic version which is under $20 from Amazon but there are more advanced version as well.

****, since this morning troubles with my HD100 (RS2).
The picture is consgtantly flickering between lighter en darker. I noticed it when my screen had a no signal blue screen. The lamp is on 400 hours now.

Big problems/defect HD100 you guys think?

^
Switch to High lamp for a while then back to low. Many times this cures flicker. If not you can try removing the lamp - and re-seating it. If this doesn't work your lamp may need replacing. What's the warranty on your bulb; 300 hours?, 400 hours?

My Pioneer now has over 200 hours and the colors are continuing to settle in.The red is now almost perfect and the green's are almost right on.The skin tones are right on.It makes you wonder about the number of hours the unit is targeted to color adjust. Do the colors get to a point (hours) where the adjusting stops?If the adjusting continues,will a point be reached that adjustments will be needed to have a correct picture? Just because I'm paranoid Doesn't mean that their not out to get me!

If you're referring to the gamut on the FPJ1, it's not adjustable without an external CMS. The spectral output of the UHP bulb will shift over time, causing variations in the greyscale and gamut, but not to the point where either is "correct" without the proper adjustments.

Update on my FPJ1: I called the local service center to whom I was referred by Pioneer customer service, and they said that they aren't trained to do repairs on the FPJ1. So I called Pioneer back and the lady apologized and indicated that (as I thought) the FPJ1 is a factory repair only unit. She said normally the customer contacts the installer and has the installer send it in, but since I purchased it from an authorized dealer and installed it myself, she gave me the Pioneer factory address so I could ship it in directly. She said it normally takes 7-10 days - hopefully the guys at Pioneer don't dismiss this as being "within tolerances" and just send it back to me. I'll probably drop it in the mail tomorrow to get the ball rolling.

Hogpilot, in an effort to avoid unnecessary time aggravation and expense you may want to clarify with Pioneer whether their "factory" personnel are qualified to work on these as well. I envision you getting a call from the factory in about a week with the news that they can't work on it and you'll than be required to ship it to JVC in California.

I've thought about that, however as far as I'm concerned this item is sold by Pioneer (rebadge or otherwise) and fully warrantied by them, so whatever happens once its in their hands under warranty coverage isn't my concern. This attitude may come back to bite me in the ass, however it seems that were all fixes to be made by JVC in the future, that's something they'd have informed all of their FPJ1 customers of. Maybe not and this is the impetus for that word being put out, but I personally don't think that wil be the case. Hopefully those words won't come back to haunt me

Good luck, I'm looking forward to hearing how Pioneer handles warranty repairs of these PJ's.

Pioneer can not fix this PJ, I would triple check this before you send it to them and then they send it someplace else. Pioneer did not make this PJ they rebadged it as you know, the inards are all JVC when it comes down to repair. I am willing to bet that that is where it needs to go. Just do yourself a favor and triple check it before you send it away, make the phone calls to the destination of repair and get names. You do not want your PJ bouncing all over the country this will increase the chances of bouncing the fixed chips out of wack. It is not easy to align three chips in this resolution properly in all axis.

Thanks, that's why I'm documenting it in this thread


Is this speculation or do you know this for a fact? I'm well aware that this is a re-badge RS2, however the warranty is through Pioneer, not JVC. At this time I have no reason to believe that Pioneer can't fix the projector - in fact this is exactly one of the main questions I'm trying to answer. If anyone has any concrete information that would indicate otherwise, I would love for them to share it; until that time, I'm happy to let Pioneer take care of a machine that has their name on it and carries their Elite warranty.

When Pioneer sold this unit I am sure they set up a way to service these items either thru JVC or themselves in advance. Most likely they will send it off to JVC based on pre-agreement. They are big company and have had excellent service/customer satisfactions for decades. I would doubt they even attempt to fix something they don't know. Just a thought.

JVC has no warranty on their lamps of the HD100. I ll try your solution!

Im getting ready to mount my FPJ1.. Its kind of hard for me to mount the PJ center to the screen because of where the studs are. How many inches off centered can the projector be mounted?

It depends on your image size and how much vertical lens shift you're using, but the horizontal can be used to displace the projector from centerline by up to 34% of the projected image width.

So, for example, if you were using no or a small amount of vertical lens shift, for a 100" wide image you could mount the projector up to 34" from centerline (16" from either edge of the screen).