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RS2/ PRO-FPJ1 Owners: Setup Discussion Thread - Page 12

post #331 of 4219
Thread Starter 
Ok, I've had a chance to do some more testng with the Avia disc and another DVD player. In a nutshell, this is what I posted last week:
Quote:
Originally Posted by CCLAY View Post

Avia disc thru an Oppo 970 player set to 720p thru an Audio Authority component video switcher to the RS2.

With Gamma at 'normal', which I believe is 2.2 and color temp 'middle', I ended up with the following:

Contrast -6
Brightness -4
Color -12,
Sharpness 0
Tint 0, tint was greyed out but fortunately wasn't an issue. The flashing bars for color and tint were completely gone with Color at -12.

With Gamma at 2.5, color temp 'middle':

Little need for adjustments vs. the factory 'normal'. Maybe a tick here or there but that's it. I found the blacks were very black but I lost a lot of detail in dark scenes.

With Gamma at Theater 1:

Close to the same, Contrast -6 but Brightness at -5

Final:

I'm finding myself going back to Theater 1. I found Gamma 2.5 to be too dark. I didn't play with any of those individual W, R, G, B curves though.

gregr made a comment on how those numbers seemed too low and he was right. It seems my AA switcher has an issue in the main component output that is causing these low numbers.

I borrowed a Toshiba A30 player and ran the disc first thru the AA unit, then direct to the RS2. Here's what I got:

Theater 1 for gamma.

Toshiba thru the AA switcher:
Contrast -6, same as the Oppo
Brightness -3, -4 on the Oppo
Color -2 versus the -12 on the Oppo. Strange.

Toshiba direct to the RS2:
Contrast -2
Brightness -3
Color -2
Now that's more like it. That's where I left my settings at.

I didn't have time to run the Oppo direct to the RS2, but I have a feeling the contrast will come up and possibly the color as well. Contrast and color are very directly related I'm finding but it is strange that the Oppo is forcing me to be so low on the color.

I then put on some HD material and looked at 2.5 gamma. Much, much better now. A most amazing picture. Still just a touch too dark in shadow detail, but this is where I think gregr said you could bump up a bit in the offset adjustments on the low end.

My bottom line. No matter what my adjustments ended up being, the resulting image was still very, very good. The short of the long is that the RS2 is pretty fantastic out of the box in a lot of areas so I can't see anyone having to do a huge amount of calibrating or spending a lot of time trying to 'get it right'.

It's already right.

Chris
post #332 of 4219
Thanks for posting your findings. So I guess it is time to get a new switch or something eh?
post #333 of 4219
Thread Starter 
Yeah, AA is going to RMA the main unit. It's more than a simple switch, unfortunately. It sends component video via cat5 thru the whole house to wall plates. Pretty darn nice system actually. It passes component video, composite video, analog audio, digital audio and ir signals to each zone.
LL
post #334 of 4219
Cool. How much do those cost?
Is it only one cat5 to each location?
post #335 of 4219
Thread Starter 
It's a little pricey, but it's a complete solution and works very well(present hiccup excluded). It takes 2 cat5 per wall plate.
post #336 of 4219
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cameron View Post

If you can mount on the back wall and get the full gain from the HP, I would seriously consider it! Having the projector back that distance, should increase the contrast as well.

Thanks Cameron will try the projector at that distance when I test it albeit on my current Dalite Cinema vision at 110" 16:9. Will be interesting to see how it looks given the amount of brightness you lose from sitting back.
post #337 of 4219
Guys try running the RS2 with Gamma set to 2.4
Then go in and bump 5 IRE 5 points. Set contrast to + 10 and brightness + 3.
The picture is incredibly CRT like. The projectors black level is able to handle the lower CRT gamma curves.
My experience with these settings any BD or HD DVD title that previously showed banding and posturization is now just as clean and solid as CRT. Amazing.
This is quit the projector.
post #338 of 4219
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Gouger View Post

Guys try running the RS2 with Gamma set to 2.4
Then go in and bump 5 IRE 5 points. ... The picture is incredibly CRT like.

Yeah, did you ever think a lamp-based projector would look like that?
post #339 of 4219
Greg this thing is incredible. Never would have thought to try those gammas had it not been for your review pointing this out, thank you
post #340 of 4219
Quote:
Originally Posted by gregr View Post

Yeah, did you ever think a lamp-based projector would look like that?

Greg,
Would you mind sharing where you settled on your contrast setting for these low gamma settings? Thanks.
post #341 of 4219
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Gouger View Post

Greg this thing is incredible. Never would have thought to try those gammas had it not been for your review pointing this out, thank you

Alan, you'll make certain we get to see this in action at the AVS forum meet in Rochester, whenver that happens?
post #342 of 4219
Quote:
Originally Posted by hrd View Post

Alan, you'll make certain we get to see this in action at the AVS forum meet in Rochester, whenver that happens?

Yeah, is that back on the calendar?
post #343 of 4219
Quote:
Originally Posted by pepar View Post

Yeah, is that back on the calendar?

I was on the phone with AV Science recently, and the latest word was they are working on it and may hold it in the second half of March.
post #344 of 4219
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Gouger View Post

Guys try running the RS2 with Gamma set to 2.4
Then go in and bump 5 IRE 5 points. Set contrast to + 10 and brightness + 3.
The picture is incredibly CRT like. The projectors black level is able to handle the lower CRT gamma curves.
My experience with these settings any BD or HD DVD title that previously showed banding and posturization is now just as clean and solid as CRT. Amazing.
This is quit the projector.

Thanks for the info Alan and Greg. Where do you 'bump 5 IRE 5 Points'? Is that in the 'offset' menu?

Chris
post #345 of 4219
Chris

Go into Gamma. At the bottom enter Gamma Adjust which takes you to page 2 then second box down. I believe it is set to 5% by default. Crank it up 5% just for a little extra detail in the low end. Everyone will get different mileage from this depending on screen size, material, room parameters.
My point was dont discount the other Gamma selections from 2.2 on down. Give them a try. You may have to compensate by bringing up brightness slightly.

Edit: Bumping 5 IRE is done in W
post #346 of 4219
Guys regarding the get together that is Jason and Marc's doing. I am not up on their plans. Please contact them direct. Thx.
post #347 of 4219
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Gouger View Post

Guys try running the RS2 with Gamma set to 2.4
Then go in and bump 5 IRE 5 points. Set contrast to + 10 and brightness + 3.
The picture is incredibly CRT like. The projectors black level is able to handle the lower CRT gamma curves.
My experience with these settings any BD or HD DVD title that previously showed banding and posturization is now just as clean and solid as CRT. Amazing.
This is quit the projector.

This is great advice. There has been a lot of discussion about what number to use for the gamma on the RS-1 and RS-2 but I've always thought that the best results are obtained with a more complex gamma curve that isn't represented by a single number. Unfortunately the RS-1 was lacking in a custom gamma adjustment and it's good to see the RS-2 rectify this.
post #348 of 4219
Yeah it is great to see the RS2 with this. Now I am wondering if I want to use the internal RS2 gamma or the Radiance gamma? I haven't even looked at the Radiance gamma so I am not sure what can be done with it yet compared to the internal RS2 controls.
post #349 of 4219
Hey you RS2 owners: A question: Where exactly is the manual lens-shift knob located on the RS2? (So we are clear on "Left/Right" in relation to the projector, please describe it from the point of view of standing in front of the projector,
looking at it's front panel/lens...thanks).

I'm having a hushbox and cabinet built for the RS2 and I want to ensure I can easily access the lens shift knob.

Thanks,
post #350 of 4219
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by R Harkness View Post

Hey you RS2 owners: A question: Where exactly is the manual lens-shift knob located on the RS2? (So we are clear on "Left/Right" in relation to the projector, please describe it from the point of view of standing in front of the projector,
looking at it's front panel/lens...thanks).

I'm having a hushbox and cabinet built for the RS2 and I want to ensure I can easily access the lens shift knob.

Easy access? Hmm, define 'easy'.

The knobs are directly above the lens, equally to the right and left on a little flat spot. I'll try to get a pic for you.

Chris
post #351 of 4219
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Gouger View Post

Chris

Go into Gamma. At the bottom enter Gamma Adjust which takes you to page 2 then second box down. I believe it is set to 5% by default. Crank it up 5% just for a little extra detail in the low end. Everyone will get different mileage from this depending on screen size, material, room parameters.
My point was dont discount the other Gamma selections from 2.2 on down. Give them a try. You may have to compensate by bringing up brightness slightly.

Edit: Bumping 5 IRE is done in W

Thanks Alan. This is great info!

Chris
post #352 of 4219
Quote:
Originally Posted by CCLAY View Post

Easy access? Hmm, define 'easy'.

The knobs are directly above the lens, equally to the right and left on a little flat spot. I'll try to get a pic for you.

Chris

Oh, good. For some reason I thought the knobs were below the lens. Above the lens is certainly better. I guess there are two knobs; one for vertical one for horizontal shift?

Thanks (and a picture really would be helpful to me!)

The projector will be in a cabinet just behind the viewing sofa, within my reach.
post #353 of 4219
Yeah I was about to tell you wrong about the lens shift because I was remembering them when I had it ceiling mounted. oops.
post #354 of 4219
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by R Harkness View Post

For some reason I thought the knobs were below the lens. Above the lens is certainly better.

As long we're talking about an inverted projector, yes. The knobs are above. I'll get a pic in the am.

Chris
post #355 of 4219
Hello to all. I could use some bigtime help. What screen size and type(material and gain) for a 2.40:1 screen? I will be using a Stewert recessed with masking. My situation is, viewing distance is 11'6", ceiling height is 7'4", and my lens to screen will be approx. 10'(this is above my head) or 16'(this is above my pool table,I would prefer this dist.). I can control the light levels from dark to ambiance. Can the RS2 with the pannie handle these parameters? Also, will my head get in the way of the beam? Thanks for the help.
post #356 of 4219
What is the width of your room?
post #357 of 4219
Quote:
Originally Posted by CCLAY View Post

As long we're talking about an inverted projector, yes. The knobs are above. I'll get a pic in the am.

Chris

Hookay, now it appears the knobs are actually on the bottom?
Is that correct?

I'm talking about if the projector is right side up, as one sees in product photos or as it would be when table mounted.

Knobs on the bottom, correct?

Thanks.
post #358 of 4219
I just calibrated my 2nd RS-2 (my own unit). It currently has 53 hours on it. I am amazed at how well it tracks grayscale. The first I calibrated was brand new and did not track quite as well as my unit with some more hours on it. The first unit barely needed me to touch the offsets. I believe I ended up with Blue at -3 and Green at -1. Red was left alone. That unit tracked very well with a delta of less than 1.8 across the full spectrum. I could have tweaked it more with gamma but gamma tracked so well I left it alone. The one issue with the first one was a slight loss of blue at the middle IREs.

My unit needed a good bit more movement of the offsets to track correctly. I ended up with Blue at -6, Green at -1 and Red at +10. This gave me great tracking with a delta error of less than .8 across the whole spectrum. I had the same issue with a slight loss of blue in the middle IREs.

Gamma for both units was set to 2.5. Gamma tracking on these units is a good as I have ever seen with a digital. I think both units tracked at 2.51 and 2.49 respectively. They have such good tracking in the low IREs as well. I know Alan has suggested to use 2.5 or 2.4 and bump the 5% level to get more shadow detail. This may be a good idea to bring a bit more details but I am not finding you need any bump for proper measurement. I am hoping Greg will jump in here and comment on his findings for the low IRE area. I know he has commented a good bit already but my experimenting shows that a bump at the low levels actually lowers gamma too much. Just make sure you set brightness correctly. I am using a brightness setting of +2 on a Da-Lite highpower.

Just wanted to post here again. I am really enjoying this PJ and look forward to adding the JVC scaler for color correction or adding a Radiance for the same reason.
post #359 of 4219
Hi there, I'd like to ask a similar question to the one that Electriman asked re positioning of the projector relative to screen size and material. However in my case I would like to get your views on where to position the projector with a Stewart screen of 10.5' width when using the 2.35 aspect ratio. My room is about 23' long and plan to sit anywhere between 16' and 20' from the screen. The room is about 18' wide with a 7'10'' ceiling, and was planning to mount the RS2 on the ceiling.

Also I'm having several doubts with the screen material taking into account the size of the screen and the relatively low lumen output of the RS2. I can control ambient light without a problem in my room. The Ultramatte 150 with 1.5 gain and half gain at 35 degrees was recommended to me, although the narrow 35 degree angle worries me. I always thought the Studiotek 130 was the one to use with 1.3 gain, half gain at 68 degrees, but was told that the screen size may be too big for this material (?).

Any help on the positioning of the projector on the ceiling mount and any views on the screen material that would suit the RS2 would be highly appreciated!
post #360 of 4219
Rich,

yeah the knobs are on the bottom if it is in the table mounted position.
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