RS2/ PRO-FPJ1 Owners: Setup Discussion Thread - Page 114

24 hours !

The gain control seems to affect the top end more than the bottom end of the range. The offsets seem to more so shift the entire range and the offsets are not as coarse an adjustment as the color temp controls.

You will have to experiment and find out which point in the gamma curve affects each IRE pattern the most. I noticed that some of the lower IRE patterns, like 30%, needed adjustment in the gamma curve that was lower than "30".

There are direct remote codes for focus that are somewhere in this thread. If you have a Harmony remote, they should already be in their database. With the direct remote codes, you can have whatever pattern you want on the screen and adjust focus.

That's great. I do have a Harmony so I'll look that up.

I just got an email from CurtPalme home theater. They have a new VideoEQ that looks promising.

Looking for opinions.

http://www.curtpalme.com/VideoEq.shtm

I hope this doesn't violate any AV forum rules.

Dave

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1215902

You'll need the Pro version to do color gamut correction. I am am looking forward to getting mine..

plus you need CalMan

Hi. I've spent the evening calibrating. Thanks to your advice amt I've achieved a lovely flat greyscale using 2.2 gamma. However, HCFR shows that my gamma is still tracking incorrectly at an average of 1.75. I think that means that my picture is too bright? Is that right? So what's the best and easiest way of correcting this (preferably without wrecking my greyscale)?

Thanks.

You do not need CalMan. You only need a way of measuring your display, and there are several options. The control of the VideoEQ can be totally independent.

I've got the VideoEQ EAP (like the Pro but less memories) to use with a HD350, but I've not had chance to set up the CMS side yet (just got my greyscale and gamma setup recently using the projector's own controls, so I'm good to go).

I don't have Calman either, so I'll be using the Windows based software to control the settings (just like using a remote, but my beta unit needs to be connected to a PC for this) the Pro version can be controlled using a supplied remote, while you monitor the results using test patterns and your sensor+software (Chromapure in my case).

Don't buy the cheaper model as it doesn't contain CMS only greyscale and gamma (so little better than your projector's controls, though it will give more points to adjust).

Thanks for clarifying

The 1.75 would indicate the image goes from black to white too quickly. I hate to break the news to you, but I don't know if it's possible to adjust the "W" for tuning a gamma curve after the R/G/B curve adjustments have been made and still retain the gray-scale. I actually have to do this myself, as my gamma curve is not consistent. On the plus side, you should have a much punchier image with more "depth" once to get the gamma curve tuned. These JVC projectors tend to do very well with high gamma curves.

So where would you guys go to learn more about the gamma curve, R/G/B curve, what tools are needed (any?) etc to calibrate a pj properly?

Right now I am running the settings on page 1 and while it looks great I would like to really mess around a lot more with the settings.

Thanks!

I thought as much! I'll have to see what happens to the separate R,G,B, levels if W is lowered. I'm hoping that it will just lower all 3 values by the same amount. Actually what I'm seeing in that HCFR 1.75 result is not so much a curve but a straight line running above and parallel to the reference 2.2 line. So what I want to do is lower the W at each point on the JVC's custom gamma curve until it fits?

I'm using a Spyder II probe and HCFR software. The probe sits just in front of your screen and measures the light reflected off it. The software analyses the results and lets you assess the accuracy of the image. The probe is fairly inexpensive and the software is a free download from here. There's a simple guide I used here to get me going - although calibrating the JVC is a slightly different technique to the one described there because there are no bias controls as such. As amt revealed to me you have to adjust the individual R,G,B gamma levels in the Custom Gamma menu. I hope this helps.

I tried this with my DTP-94 probe from x-rite and HCFR during the holidays. HCFR would report only 5-6 foot lamberts and it was really difficult to get gamma straight using the controls. I finally gave up figuring that my lamp needs to be be replaced anyway soon because it already has 900 hours on it (113" screen, lamp in high mode all the time)

One thing I noticed though is when I tracked greyscale was that red and green were almost all the time close together but blue was always lower. How can that be? I thought the lamp would become red deficient while aging?
Is that because I ran it on high lamp mode for the whole time? Does it differ from lamp to lamp?

use gamma 2.6, then 2.5 then 2.4..etc until you find the right gamma performance.
Mine ended up with 2.5. You still use the multi point RGB but may need a notch in white in the low gamma end to bring the details out in low ire.

Hi. I used 2.1 and then lowered each gamma point to fit. I now have average gamma of 2.2 and a flat greyscale. So it's the best I can do for the moment. Does it make any difference using a lower gamma and then adjusting? What is apparent after calibration is that the image is very dark. There just aren't enough lumens and it's only done 322 hours (I think the previous owner ran it in high lamp mode for a couple of hundred of those). The lamp ought still have plenty of life in it but if it's this dark now what on earth is it going to be like at say 800 hours? I don't like running in high lamp mode because of increased fan noise. I ran a windowed 100 ire pattern and HCFR reported only 10.5 ftl which is not good.

Thank you!

Can I ask again whether it makes a difference in the picture by taking 2.1 and considerably reducing W (as I have done) in the custom gamma controls so that it fits the 2.2 gamma curve or taking 2.4 or 2.5 and then tweaking that? Won't the end result be the same? I'm not sure I understand the mechanics of gamma levels.

Also, does running the lamp in high power mode reduce it's life on the JVC? I read a couple of comments on this thread that indicate that it makes no difference to lamp life whether it's run in normal or high.

Basically you want to use a combinination a RGB (color temp & offset) and gamma tweaks that provides the flattest grayscale with min tweaks.
I did tweaked the color temp first for a decent (but not there yet) global performnce first then choosing the gamma (2.5) and tweaking it for best gray scale was good enough. I did not do gamma tweak for gamma correction other than low end (one or 2 points ). Using heavy multi points for gamma corrections across the curve might introduce more un-lirearity in the grayscale. Experiment!
Try to use 2.2~2.4 if top lumen dips below 300. As long as you get 12 ftl you should be ok. This pj is not very bright once fully calibrated. As your lamp gets aged you might want to use a lower gamma preset and tweak as needed. I wouldn't use anything lower than 2.2 on this pj as this pj is known to have actually lower gamma than what it says.

Yeah, I need to find a way to get more lumens otherwise this pj might not be a long term keeper. I watched Zulu on Blu-ray last night and the calibrated image was just too dim for comfort. Using high lamp power adds much needed vibrancy at the cost of noise. I only used 2.1 gamma because Art Feierman recommended it in his RS2 review (saying that the pj can crush blacks). As it happens HCFR reported a gamma of 1.75 so I then had to massively bring down the white levels at each gamma point and then retweak for a flat grey scale. I'll have a go at using 2.4 and see if it helps lumens.

Just tried 2.4 and 2.5 and HCFR says that 2.4 is actually 1.93 and 2.5 is 2.03. What's that all about? So should I try 2.6? Maybe that'll actually get nearer 2.2 gamma?

Can some people post their settings following callibration? I would like to see whether I can improve my picture (I realize settings are going to be somewhat different from projector to projector). I do not have the hardware to do the callibration myself.

John

I settled on 2.6 gamma and HCFR reported it as 2.03 gamma. I've not tried to correct the curve to 2.2. I got a nice flat greyscale but I've just watched Firewall and the picture looked quite yellow (does the film have that look?). One problem is that my Spyder probe doesn't report low light levels accurately so it's impossible to tell what's going on below 30% IRE. Perhaps the apparent yellow problem emanates down there. If the image looks yellow what does that mean? Too much of which colours? The good news though is that I gained another 2 ftl. So HCFR reports my 100% IRE pattern as giving off 12.5 ftl in normal mode. Could do with a tad more because the lamp is only going to dim but that's fine for the moment.

Not all spyder II probes are the same! Some don't measure very well. Also due to my high gain screen the colors shift when the angle of reflected light off the screen is high. Like when measuring grey scale close to the screen the angle is high to shift the shadow made by the probe! So I put the probe half way between the screen and projector with it pointed at the projector and get much better readings. Even down to 10IRE with a Spyder II. An i1 probe will not work pointed at the projector however. You need a diffuser and the one that comes with the i1 isn't any good for grey scale. The Spyder II on the other hand is calibrated with a diffuser so if you have a good one you can get very good results. At least that's based on my experience with my Spyder II and i1 Display probes. My gamut readings are very similar between both probes so I know my Spyder II is pretty good.

Ron

I have an FPJ-1 in a light controlled room, dark walls. I am currently using the 108" diagonal 16:9 screen that I was using with my Sony G70Q previously. I believe it's 1.0 gain and is retractable. I could use and would prefer the aesthetic of a fixed frame screen. The room is 14.5' wide and projector is hung from the ceiling 14.5' away. Seating is about 11' from the screen.

Any recommendations on good screen choices? I have an RadianceXD, just in case that's relevant.

Cheers, Ian

Ian,
What's your budget?
You didn't mentioned needing an AT screen soooo.

The Carada screens are, imo and others, unbeatable for the price.
Excellent build quality, PQ and support.

SeymourAV is also a great company. I have one of their AT screens, so I can't speak directly to their non-AT but I would be pretty positive that they're in the same league as Carada.

Up the scale is the Stewart StudioTek ST130.
Probably the standard for this type of screen and priced accordingly.

I can't speak highly enough of Carada's fixed screens. No hot spots, no visible screen structure, no sparklies and fantastic customer service. I tried many screens from the more expensive bigger name screen companies and found the Carada's to be superior. Alan Gouger speaks highly of their screens and he has very high standards as we all know.

I posted this previously in the rs1 forum, but I really am in a quandary about what projector to spend my money on. Any incite would be greatly appreciated.

It looks like a used RS1 goes for less than $2000 and the epson after rebate goes for ~$2300.

I'd really like the best bang for my buck. The epson seems to be the best under $3000 current projector out there based on my scouring of the internet for reviews and opinions. The better black level is what really sells this model for me. I'm not sure if I'd need the interpolation or sharpness enhancers available on the 8500ub, but they wouldn't hurt I suppose. Some stuff might be nice with it like standard dvd's. I have a lot of those (over 400) but I really have only been watching blurays for the last year and a half on my sony 55in rear projection lcd with 720p (the 17in deep one). I don't need the 2.35 to 16:9 autozoom that the panny ae4000 offers and that model seems to be a little to dim for the 120in screen I plan on using.

The RS1 seems to be a really good model based on my internet searching. I don't have the budget setup for a $4000 (price for new rs10) pj. I like the added brightness to the calibrated screen which would allow for bigger screens (maybe bigger than the 120in). I'm not sure the older RS1 is brighter than the epson 8500ub though since most comparisons are to the same year models like the rs2 or rs10. I love the idea of even better blacks. I'm not sure how the picture of the new 8500ub (just released the fall of 2009) would hold up to the older RS1. I know the black levels have been improving on the epson series since the 6500 (about the same time as the rs1 came out I believe.

I was also wondering if the lack of deep color or other features that are present in hdmi 1.3 (which the rs1 lacks) are significant in the image on screen or if they are mostly theoretical?

The warranty on a new model would be nice. Also the 4000 hour lamp life of the epson is a plus.

My main goal is the best picture though. I will have a fully light controlled environment. I will be watching blu-rays about 90% of the time in the dedicated theater room.

I'd like to have a quality unit like the RS1.

What do you guys think? Has anyone compared the two projectors? Should I set my sites on a used rs2 or rs10? I'm currently leaning a bit torwards the new epson, but could be swayed if the picture quality is noticeably better than the epson on the rs1. This is really hard to do without seeing any of the projectors in person. Even then, there are so many variables that a side by side comparison would be the only way to determine which looks better in each situation.