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RS2/ PRO-FPJ1 Owners: Setup Discussion Thread - Page 130

post #3871 of 4219
Thread Starter 
Will grab the results from home 2nite and bring them to work 2morrow and post results
post #3872 of 4219
Always interested in other reports, can't wait to see um.

However in the mean time, I have sent my RS2 AGAIN intot the JVC repair shop for low lumen output on a bulb with 280 hrs.

I was getting in HI, only 8 lumens. In low 5. sigh

I've asked JVC if consideration might be given to swapping me out

Well see. But at least IF they fix or don't fix it nothing's wrong) then I get piece of mind.

Sad to see the newer models having this same issue. Looks like the RS20/HD750 or HD950 would be the ones to get.
post #3873 of 4219
Thread Starter 
I think my lumens were, gulp, even lower than that pre cal. I have not heard of the low lumen output issue. How can you tell if you have the problem?
post #3874 of 4219
I'd be curious if your lumens were lowere then that, then how much do you think a calibration might improve it?

Myself, I might think, not much if at all.

But what I saw was with my trained eye (just kidding) but movies just seemed dark. Oh the detail was there but they looked just dim. Especially when I would watch any movie and when a scene would show any shadow detail I was looking to see if I could see any detail in the shadows.
This could be a contrast/brightness issue but you confirm it with a calibration and you see what the real lumens are. It should be for a dark theater room 10-14.

Actually this takes away somewhat my movie watching enjoyment. I'm constantly criticizing the pic in my mind. And this stems form the fact my projector was damaged from the beginning.

Lets see those reports?
post #3875 of 4219
Thread Starter 
Ok, here we go.

Initial light level 3.0 fl in 2.35 mode. Final light output 3.3 fl and 4.5 fl in 16:9 mode. 170 lumens at 638 hours.

Pre on/off contrast ratio 5078, post cr 13052.

Pre gamma 2.02, post gamma 2.21

Color temp, gamma curve and gray scale RGB ratios were reasonably close pre cal and spot on post cal.

I happen to have had the new Panamorph lens, the DC1 in my possession during the cal as well as my regular lens, the UH480. We did a light loss comparison with both in and out of the light path.

Light loss for the DC1 was 0.6% and 1.7% for the 480. Not bad at all. Those numbers were much lower than I expected and definitely not noticable between the two.

That's about it. I haven't had much time to do any serious viewing yet but initially the image looked pretty darn good after the calibration. I'm considering going to a Seymore screen material to replace my SMX material to pick up a little more brightness. I have a sample of it and it's a bit whiter than the SMX material.

Chris
post #3876 of 4219
Did I read that correctly that post cal you had a max 4.5fl and under 200 lumnes?

I am worried now. I was hoping for 10-14fl on a 110in 16:9 SMX at an 11-12ft throw.
post #3877 of 4219
I'm with you, Clay, your lumens should be much higher then that and I'm surprised you aren't screaming there as low as they are. I couldn't imagine watching a movie with that low of light output. Something is wrong.

I would try something like Avatar and see how much detail you can in the woods scene where he's fighting the dogs. Do you loose detail in the dogs skin, or is the forest just black.

Just my two cents.

By the way, this is why I invested in a VideoEQ pro (I know there still $1200) and a Calman with a color munki to do a calibration check up whenever I wanted. (another $900)

But then again, I've got more hours calibrating then I do watching movies.
post #3878 of 4219
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hagar View Post

I'm with you, Clay, your lumens should be much higher then that and I'm surprised you aren't screaming there as low as they are. I couldn't imagine watching a movie with that low of light output. Something is wrong.

I would try something like Avatar and see how much detail you can in the woods scene where he's fighting the dogs. Do you loose detail in the dogs skin, or is the forest just black.

Just my two cents.

By the way, this is why I invested in a VideoEQ pro (I know there still $1200) and a Calman with a color munki to do a calibration check up whenever I wanted. (another $900)

But then again, I've got more hours calibrating then I do watching movies.

Calman and a Colormunki are definitely in my future.

What screen are you using? (Make, Size, Gain) and what is your throw?
post #3879 of 4219
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by DouglasCleary View Post
Did I read that correctly that post cal you had a max 4.5fl and under 200 lumnes?

I am worried now. I was hoping for 10-14fl on a 110in 16:9 SMX at an 11-12ft throw.
Yeah, that was what was on his report. I see good shadow detail in everything, but I really don't have a lot to compare it to. It's been a while since I've had a chance to see any of the newer projectors out there. I have asked Jeff to take a moment and comment here.

Chris
post #3880 of 4219
Quote:
Originally Posted by DouglasCleary View Post

Calman and a Colormunki are definitely in my future.

What screen are you using? (Make, Size, Gain) and what is your throw?

The only thing about calibrating yourself is the learning curve. BUT with with great guys here and at Spectracal, I figured out how to get pretty darn good (I think). Some of my efforts are posted somewhere here.

I have a 119" Da-Lite 1.1 screen that works for me. 13'2" back and when it works, it works.

JVC just said there looking at my projector as I type this.
post #3881 of 4219
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hagar View Post

The only thing about calibrating yourself is the learning curve. BUT with with great guys here and at Spectracal, I figured out how to get pretty darn good (I think). Some of my efforts are posted somewhere here.

I have a 119" Da-Lite 1.1 screen that works for me. 13'2" back and when it works, it works.

JVC just said there looking at my projector as I type this.

I am guessing that a 110in SMX at 1.16 at 11-12 should be OK then.

I took SpectraCal's class last summer and it was great. I'd have the software/equipment now but I first need to get the hardware up to having something to calibrate
post #3882 of 4219
Quote:
Originally Posted by DouglasCleary View Post


I am guessing that a 110in SMX at 1.16 at 11-12 should be OK then.

I took SpectraCal's class last summer and it was great. I'd have the software/equipment now but I first need to get the hardware up to having something to calibrate

My experience with SMX is it is not a 1.1 gain material. It is closer to 0.8.
post #3883 of 4219
Quote:
Originally Posted by CCLAY View Post

Yeah, that was what was on his report. I see good shadow detail in everything, but I really don't have a lot to compare it to. It's been a while since I've had a chance to see any of the newer projectors out there. I have asked Jeff to take a moment and comment here.

Chris

The light output observed is not unexpected for this machine at that throw ratio with that many hours on the lamp. The RS2 was never very bright.

The SMX material is also a low gain weave which does not help. Bigger screens work better with brighter projectors like some single chip DLP units.
post #3884 of 4219
Quote:
Originally Posted by umr View Post

The light output observed is not unexpected for this machine at that throw ratio with that many hours on the lamp. The RS2 was never very bright.

The SMX material is also a low gain weave which does not help. Bigger screens work better with brighter projectors like some single chip DLP units.

So do you think that an RS2 at 11-12ft on a 110in SMX will work for me? The room will have brown walls and ceiling.
post #3885 of 4219
Quote:
Originally Posted by umr View Post

The light output observed is not unexpected for this machine at that throw ratio with that many hours on the lamp. The RS2 was never very bright.

The SMX material is also a low gain weave which does not help. Bigger screens work better with brighter projectors like some single chip DLP units.

What is the expectations of a lamp brightness?

Most manufacturers rate their lamp life, not to failure, but to the point where the lamp is half as bright as it was when new.http://www.projectorreviews.com/advi...Brightness.php

I have never seen or read a review where you should expect to loose that much brightness in that short of amount of hours.

As for how bright is bright enough, Art at Projector Central throws a wrench in this by saying "the RS2 delivers over 300 ANSI lumens. This is still plenty of light to fill a 120" screen with great contrast and snap, again due to the latent strength of its contrast and color saturation." And this was the longest throw (farthest back) from the screen and in low lamp mode.

300 ANSI is 7.9 FL, that capital "Y" thing. And I suspect in a mancave. But 7.9! Thats acceptable? and presumably on a bulb with less then 100 hours.

Okay.

The RS2 is rated at 600 ANSI, 10.4 FL. I wonder where I might begin to see a difference between 10.4 and 7.9, I don't think I would, but I expect those Lumens to be 10.9 to 7.9 at least till the half way mark.

As for SMX screens. I thought about getting one also but was talked out of it because of the light loss going through the material. Talk about being dim then.
post #3886 of 4219
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hagar View Post


What is the expectations of a lamp brightness?

Most manufacturers rate their lamp life, not to failure, but to the point where the lamp is half as bright as it was when new.http://www.projectorreviews.com/advi...Brightness.php

I have never seen or read a review where you should expect to loose that much brightness in that short of amount of hours.

As for how bright is bright enough, Art at Projector Central throws a wrench in this by saying "the RS2 delivers over 300 ANSI lumens. This is still plenty of light to fill a 120" screen with great contrast and snap, again due to the latent strength of its contrast and color saturation." And this was the longest throw (farthest back) from the screen and in low lamp mode.

300 ANSI is 7.9 FL, that capital "Y" thing. And I suspect in a mancave. But 7.9! Thats acceptable? and presumably on a bulb with less then 100 hours.

Okay.

The RS2 is rated at 600 ANSI, 10.4 FL. I wonder where I might begin to see a difference between 10.4 and 7.9, I don't think I would, but I expect those Lumens to be 10.9 to 7.9 at least till the half way mark.

As for SMX screens. I thought about getting one also but was talked out of it because of the light loss going through the material. Talk about being dim then.

Around 300 lumens is what I would expect with a new lamp in a RS2. Many who effectively use these lower output machines on a 120" screen are using a StudioTek 130 or Da-Lite HP.

Lamp life is highly variable. My last one was over 50% down at 600 hours. My current lamp at 1100 hours is down about 40% in my RS20. I suspect it will last about 1500 hours. I use a unity gain 86" screen so I do not need to swap lamps too frequently to maintain 12 fL minimum.

The one thing I find to be true about lamp based projectors is they are highly variable in light output. Most projectors are much dimmer than their specification and 50% less is common at the beginning of lamp life.

The only machines I run into that can consistently output 1000 lumens or more at D65 are DLP.

I could demo different light levels in my rig if you can get to LOTO in MO.
post #3887 of 4219
Hey,

A bit of Topic of Light output, however I have discovered something that is worth telling. I don't know if many have noticed the light leakage around the screen on a RS2. I have. It doesn't bother me much because I have Matt black walls. However I discovered a way (by accident) to eliminate about half that light.

I was inserting a black foam around my Lens to stop the dreaded Lens shake (I have 3 powerful subs). I had always had a bit of foam but decided to try it all the way around the Lens. It stopped my Shake and I noticed I couldn't spot the light leakage. I put on a black image and I could only just make it out after my eyes adjusted. Even then it took 30 seconds to see it. Something that wouldn't really happen in a normal movie.

So for what it's worth. If the light leakage bothers you. Try inserting thick foam around your Lens.

Ta Dono
post #3888 of 4219
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by umr View Post

My experience with SMX is it is not a 1.1 gain material. It is closer to 0.8.

I am looking at the Seymore material. It is definitely brighter and I will most likely replace my SMX with it. Thanks Jeff.
post #3889 of 4219
Quote:
Originally Posted by CCLAY View Post

I am looking at the Seymore material. It is definitely brighter and I will most likely replace my SMX with it. Thanks Jeff.

Sure thing.
post #3890 of 4219
Quote:
Originally Posted by CCLAY View Post

I am looking at the Seymore material. It is definitely brighter and I will most likely replace my SMX with it. Thanks Jeff.

You are very fortunate to A/B test SMX and SeymourAV material..............I've given up on trying to get samples of SMX material ie. synonymous to finding Osama Bin Ladin........

On the other hand, Seymour XD material was mailed within four day of my request.......kudo's to Chris at Seymour.
post #3891 of 4219
The JVC tech called to inform me of the status of my RS2 repair status. It's going to get ANOTHER $2400 eng block (3rd one). Then my 279 hr bulb, he claims is dim and needs to be replaced and thats just the way the cookie crumbles.

No chance he might swap it out, they just don't do that he said

Now do I sell it? He claims it will be right and working when I get it back which has been over a week now.

Would a 950 or RS40 suit my size screen better I wonder?
post #3892 of 4219
It was recommended to me that I run Cat5 to the pj for control. I have a URC MRF-350 (RF remote connects to basestation which relays IR) and I am not clear how the commands would go from the basestation to the RS2. Does anyone have experience with this?
post #3893 of 4219
Thread Starter 
Why not just run a blaster to the RS2. It works great.
LL
post #3894 of 4219
JVC did call me back to tell me they were replacing the optical engine (again at $2400) and giving me a new bulb and all is well

Only this optical block is new and not a rebuilt like the last one, hmmmm.

Now he says it pushes 489 lumens in low and the HDMI issue was gone.

I get it back tomorrow with JVC's seal of approval.

He added he's not getting ANY RS40's/50's or 60/s back because of low lumens. How many are having this issue?
And he thinks I'd really be impressed over my RS2 if I got one?

Rayjr did find JVC put out a bulletin on the dimming issues and recommended cleaning the block on the RS1/RS2/RS20/

When I find it, I'll post it here.
post #3895 of 4219
[quote=Hagar;20486411


Rayjr did find JVC put out a bulletin on the dimming issues and recommended cleaning the block on the RS1/RS2/RS20/

When I find it, I'll post it here.[/QUOTE]



Very interested in this service bulletin, please post or pm when you find it!
post #3896 of 4219
Here ya go.

Had a dickens of a time getting i to the 500mb limit.
LL
post #3897 of 4219
If I keep my RS2, its moot. If I don't and was to get one or the other, what you think you might do.

I'm just as concerned when I hear RS40/X3 owners complaining of 40% loss in the first 250 hrs.

And its curious when you can still get a HD950 new but for $5000, thats a lot. When you can get a new RS40/X3 for $2000 less.

Not interested in 3d AT ALL.
post #3898 of 4219
Hey,

Does anyone know if the lamp from the JVC RS20 will fit a RS2?
Part No. for RS20 is BHL5010-S.
Part No. for RS2 is BHL5009-S.

I need another in NZ. They only have them for the RS20 now.

Ta Dono
post #3899 of 4219
Quote:
Originally Posted by CCLAY View Post

Ok, here we go.

Initial light level 3.0 fl in 2.35 mode. Final light output 3.3 fl and 4.5 fl in 16:9 mode. 170 lumens at 638 hours.

Pre on/off contrast ratio 5078, post cr 13052.

Pre gamma 2.02, post gamma 2.21

Color temp, gamma curve and gray scale RGB ratios were reasonably close pre cal and spot on post cal.

I happen to have had the new Panamorph lens, the DC1 in my possession during the cal as well as my regular lens, the UH480. We did a light loss comparison with both in and out of the light path.

Light loss for the DC1 was 0.6% and 1.7% for the 480. Not bad at all. Those numbers were much lower than I expected and definitely not noticable between the two.

That's about it. I haven't had much time to do any serious viewing yet but initially the image looked pretty darn good after the calibration. I'm considering going to a Seymore screen material to replace my SMX material to pick up a little more brightness. I have a sample of it and it's a bit whiter than the SMX material.

Chris


CLAY, Whatever happened to your Lumens update and what screen did you choose.

And what about those lumens?
post #3900 of 4219
Thread Starter 
No update really. I haven't done anything yet. I'm prolly going to the Seymore screen and maybe a new bulb to increase brightness. Beyond that, I think the only way I'm going to get anymore light off the screen is to get a new pj. It'll be a JVC, just don't know which one. I haven't read hardly anything of which of the newer RS units is the hot ticket.

That said, I'll reiterate what I've said many times before. I have no problem with the image brightness in my theater. Having total light control and being somewhat sensitive to bright light makes for a pleasing experience to me. I've had a ton of parties in my theater and never have had a complaint about the picture being too dim. To each his own though, right?

Chris
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