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BenQ W 5000 little Test - Page 166

post #4951 of 5146
By default, the lamp wave form is set to white boost. This one is much easier to dial in for greyscale. Notice improved greyscale on the left side of the illustration.
post #4952 of 5146
Hello guys. I wonder if i can get noticable better picture then i have today. I play my movies on cinema mode. Dont get me wrong the picture is awesome but are there any settings i can change to get even better picture?

Thanks
post #4953 of 5146
I would reccommend an ISF calibration, to get the best possible image out of this projector. I did, and it made a big difference!
post #4954 of 5146
how do i get into the ISF menu and what are the most important parameters should i change there?
post #4955 of 5146
I paid to have mine done by a pro. To many variables for me without the proper equipment to do it. There are many posts here that can help you adjust the image, but I prefer someone else to do it that knows what their doing, I do not.
post #4956 of 5146
Quote:
Originally Posted by evgtun View Post

how do i get into the ISF menu and what are the most important parameters should i change there?

You should not be in the ISF menu if you have to ask what to change when you get there. I don't mean that as a nasty remark. It is very tricky business with lots of interactive changes (change one thing and it affects something else). It requires calibration equipment that costs from hundreds to thousands of dollars. There is a forum thread on http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/forumdisplay.php?f=139 that has a lot of information.

My advice would be the same as others. Get a professional calibration and don't worry about the ISF. There's nothing there you should change. You can control contrast, brightness, color and tint, BC on/off etc which gives you a lot of fine-tuning options. Just use those.

Another point. Once the PJ is calibrated (which you should do after 50-100 hours of burn in) you can either just enjoy it as it is or you can become a videophile and make a hobby out of tweaking it. If you want to go the latter route, you need to do a lot of reading to get up to speed. But remember, if you go that route you will never be happy with a picture.

I got my Benq calibrated and now I just turn it on and watch it.
post #4957 of 5146
The new lamp reads:
302/85 200/170 1.0
308RX73A 10250 08
6EJ1C03001

YVMW
post #4958 of 5146
Is that lamp from BenQ with the housing?
post #4959 of 5146
Quote:
Originally Posted by trgraphics View Post

Is that lamp from BenQ with the housing?

Yes, with housing.
post #4960 of 5146
Thanks for the info Steve.

Jason
post #4961 of 5146
Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveMo View Post

The new lamp reads:
302/85 200/170 1.0
308RX73A 10250 08
6EJ1C03001

YVMW

So, $300 and change direct from BenQ?
post #4962 of 5146
Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveMo View Post

The new lamp reads:
302/85 200/170 1.0
308RX73A 10250 08
6EJ1C03001

YVMW

It sound like the original bulb might be Philips TOP 302 (200/170W).

Many dealers selling bare bulbs seem to be offering type TOP 272 which is 200/150W. I guess that works too in case you only use high lamp mode. There are also many dealers selling bare bulbs with just using BenQ's code and not telling what type the bulb is. Who knows, maybe those are TOP 302's.

Quick googling brought up at least one company listing this model: http://www.lampy-projektorow.beamerl...Nr-TOP302.html
post #4963 of 5146
i got a new lamp here with housing. it says 200/170 on it. bought in norway.
post #4964 of 5146
Hello there,

First of all I'm French, so excuse my unorthodox english.

I just bought a used W5000 with only 180hours. Some values where strange in the menu and the cinema/warm combination was giving weird things, so I made a factory Reset via SM and everything went better.
After viewing some 24p HD materials from my Tvix 6500 I can say I am satisfied excepted may be that I noticed some video noise particularly on clear backgrounds on some movies. Some others where very clean. The PJ is in Rev 1.02, so I sent it to BenQ some days ago for an upgrade to 2.01 firmware wich can partly address the noise problem an permit CCA calibration. So I have now a 45-60 days wait period before the return of the PJ

So here I am with some questions about calibration. I read a good part of this thread and I found very interesting things in it, may be too much in a short while so I'm a little confused. I still have some interrogations and I think I could answer some of them if I had the projector on hand but it's gone for Portugal!

1. Is it possible to make a CCA calibration without using ISF day/night as I would prefer to rename user1,2,3 to Tvix, Blu-Ray and DBS as these are the 3 sources for the PJ (via an HDMI swither)? I understand that I loose the possibility to lock values (ISF password) but it is not an issue for me. The further idea is to leave the neutral values on the sources and to have an individual calibration for each source. It wil not be so easy for DBS except if they accept to broadcast the AVS disc for me . I think to use an eye comparison when there will be a broadcast of a Blu-Ray that I own.

2. About the measured values that must be made from SM, wouldn't it be better to use Native lamp mode for the measurements as we have here a raw measurement without any correction of the couple bulb/color wheel. If I'm wrong (I'm certainly) can you explain me why. It will help me to better understand the way the things work on this PJ.

3. Does the presence of the SM menu during these measurements has a bad influence, especially while measuring low IRE ? May be not as I have read anything about that. If yes, why not to leave a black tissue on the screen on the part where the menu stands ?

3. I read that the memory blocks for modes like warm cool are shared so that if I modify say warm in SM and that it is used by user 1 2 and 3, they will all 3 be affected. Is it correct ?

4. So If yes, it means that if I want to calibrate with 3 different sources I will have to use different banks for each of them (say warm for user1, normal for user2 and cool for user 3. Will it be a problem to use cool, to modify value and to have a 6500K picture from that preset ?

5.Another question on this subject which is linked: If I enter the same values on these 3 modes, will it give the same picture so that warm, normal, cool doesn't mean anything or do they still differ as it could be if there are some unalterable and hidden parameters for each of them ? If it differ it means I think that cool is a bad starting point to reach a 6500K picture.

6. I read that each input of the PJ has his own tuning values. Is it still true for values in SM ? In other words: I will use HDMI 1. Are the value I will modify in SM (for example in warm mode) be still there or different if I use HDMI2. I would say I will still read my values
But if they are different this mean that the use of an HDMI splitter can double the possibilities for calibration.

Thank you in advance for your numerous answers!

selac (AKA Driggs on HCFr)
post #4965 of 5146
Quote:
Originally Posted by selac View Post

Hello there,

First of all I'm French, so excuse my unorthodox english.

I just bought a used W5000 with only 180hours. Some values where strange in the menu and the cinema/warm combination was giving weird things, so I made a factory Reset via SM and everything went better.
After viewing some 24p HD materials from my Tvix 6500 I can say I am satisfied excepted may be that I noticed some video noise particularly on clear backgrounds on some movies. Some others where very clean. The PJ is in Rev 1.02, so I sent it to BenQ some days ago for an upgrade to 2.01 firmware wich can partly address the noise problem an permit CCA calibration. So I have now a 45-60 days wait period before the return of the PJ

So here I am with some questions about calibration. I read a good part of this thread and I found very interesting things in it, may be too much in a short while so I'm a little confused. I still have some interrogations and I think I could answer some of them if I had the projector on hand but it's gone for Portugal!

1. Is it possible to make a CCA calibration without using ISF day/night as I would prefer to rename user1,2,3 to Tvix, Blu-Ray and DBS as these are the 3 sources for the PJ (via an HDMI swither)? I understand that I loose the possibility to lock values (ISF password) but it is not an issue for me. The further idea is to leave the neutral values on the sources and to have an individual calibration for each source. It wil not be so easy for DBS except if they accept to broadcast the AVS disc for me . I think to use an eye comparison when there will be a broadcast of a Blu-Ray that I own.

Hello,

Your user1 will work but after entering the ISF menu unless disabled, 2 and 3 become ISF day and night. User1 will share CMS of ISF day I think. If you have the search feature on it will sence your input and select it.

Quote:


2. About the measured values that must be made from SM, wouldn't it be better to use Native lamp mode for the measurements as we have here a raw measurement without any correction of the couple bulb/color wheel. If I'm wrong (I'm certainly) can you explain me why. It will help me to better understand the way the things work on this PJ.

Using native lamp mode is what I did yes. I waited until I was close to my target FtL, began to calibrate, then did finishing touches when I was at the FtL I wanted using native lamp mode. This was done without offset or temp adjustements (normal). After gamut, I went back and did my custom temp and gamma in normal. I then used a blue filter, lowered saturation, and switched to 2.4 gamma.

Quote:


3. Does the presence of the SM menu during these measurements has a bad influence, especially while measuring low IRE ? May be not as I have read anything about that. If yes, why not to leave a black tissue on the screen on the part where the menu stands ?

Yes, remove the menu while you measure. It may be fine for doing some early measurements while the lamp is newer, or doing some desired values, but if you intend to keep an entry that will last, I would close the menu.

Quote:


3. I read that the memory blocks for modes like warm cool are shared so that if I modify say warm in SM and that it is used by user 1 2 and 3, they will all 3 be affected. Is it correct ?

Yes

Quote:


4. So If yes, it means that if I want to calibrate with 3 different sources I will have to use different banks for each of them (say warm for user1, normal for user2 and cool for user 3. Will it be a problem to use cool, to modify value and to have a 6500K picture from that preset ?

If your calibrated to Rec 709 you should'nt need to calibrate differently for each input except for maybe brightness or contrast. Otherwise you will need a different temp for each ISF or User entry that you entend to calibrate for a input.

Quote:


5.Another question on this subject which is linked: If I enter the same values on these 3 modes, will it give the same picture so that warm, normal, cool doesn't mean anything or do they still differ as it could be if there are some unalterable and hidden parameters for each of them ? If it differ it means I think that cool is a bad starting point to reach a 6500K picture.

Yes that will give you the same result. You will only get modified results selecting one of the preset ISF temperatures, which are not custom.

Quote:


6. I read that each input of the PJ has his own tuning values. Is it still true for values in SM ? In other words: I will use HDMI 1. Are the value I will modify in SM (for example in warm mode) be still there or different if I use HDMI2. I would say I will still read my values
But if they are different this mean that the use of an HDMI splitter can double the possibilities for calibration.

These tuning values are very difficult to get wrong. I wouldn't worry. If you were to modify these in the SM (service menu) I couldn't tell you how without special equipment.

Quote:


Thank you in advance for your numerous answers!

selac (AKA Driggs on HCFr)

Your welcome
post #4966 of 5146
Hmmmm looks like my W5000 is defective - and I hadn't noticed before and damn, the 1 year is up! In my old place the screen wasn't square so I hadn't noticed the problem before.

It looks like the optics are misaligned - it cannot project a square image if the projector is perfectly aligned to the screen - I have to rotate the projector counterclockwise to get it square (table mounted). This would explain why the right side of the image is blurry and has 4 pixel ghost trails, while the right side is super sharp.

Anyone take apart their W5000 and can give me pointers on how to align the optics myself?

Thanks!
post #4967 of 5146
Thank you Stevemo for your input.

I still have some questions:


Quote:


Quote:


Quote:
2. About the measured values that must be made from SM, wouldn't it be better to use Native lamp mode for the measurements as we have here a raw measurement without any correction of the couple bulb/color wheel. If I'm wrong (I'm certainly) can you explain me why. It will help me to better understand the way the things work on this PJ.

Using native lamp mode is what I did yes. I waited until I was close to my target FtL, began to calibrate, then did finishing touches when I was at the FtL I wanted using native lamp mode. This was done without offset or temp adjustements (normal). After gamut, I went back and did my custom temp and gamma in normal. I then used a blue filter, lowered saturation, and switched to 2.4 gamma.

Did you use the "blue only" option. Can you telle me in a few words the way it works ?

Quote:


Quote:
Quote:


3. Does the presence of the SM menu during these measurements has a bad influence, especially while measuring low IRE ? May be not as I have read anything about that. If yes, why not to leave a black tissue on the screen on the part where the menu stands ?

Yes, remove the menu while you measure. It may be fine for doing some early measurements while the lamp is newer, or doing some desired values, but if you intend to keep an entry that will last, I would close the menu.

As far as I understand, when doing measurements with CCA disabled (to collect data to enter then in the measured values fields of the ISF menu), you have to keep the SM menu on screen as if it disappears, the CCA is switched on. This is my concern. Effectively while taking other measurements there is no need for any menu on the screen.

Quote:


Quote:
Quote:


4. So If yes, it means that if I want to calibrate with 3 different sources I will have to use different banks for each of them (say warm for user1, normal for user2 and cool for user 3. Will it be a problem to use cool, to modify value and to have a 6500K picture from that preset ?

If your calibrated to Rec 709 you should'nt need to calibrate differently for each input except for maybe brightness or contrast. Otherwise you will need a different temp for each ISF or User entry that you entend to calibrate for a input.

This is a big question. I have noticed some differences from my sources with all the hdmi output parameters on neutral position. For exemple, I need to raise color saturation on the PJ when watching DBS. This said, may be the advanced settings wich are related to Rec 709 would be the same for all the sources and in this case there is only one Rec709 calibration to do .
In this case, isn't it better to calibrate directly with the PC, using his DVI or HDMI output, as the measurements are done in an automatic (faster) process ?

Thank you!

Selac
post #4968 of 5146
Quote:
Originally Posted by selac View Post

Thank you Stevemo for your input.

I still have some questions:



Did you use the "blue only" option. Can you telle me in a few words the way it works ?

No I did not use blue only. My understanding is you need to tell your meter your using a blue only option somehow and this can improve results for some screens. My method was that I set my desired white x Y facing the projector (without ND filter) near 400 normal and 600 whisper hours, waited until I noticed that color looked consistent with the projector (now with ND filter and measured facing the screen) on more than 4 hours, did my measured and desired including secondaries with temperature also setting the Y value of desired white this time, waited awhile until my lamp had settled and brightness looked alright, then did luminance and measured/desired for white and primaries in native lamp mode, then did temp. I waited one day and checked my desired white again, then redid measured white and measured green. The last step I did with brightness and contrast slightly different (see previous post). Right now I'm projecting onto a wall instead of the 8ft High Power I used to calibrate which has been setup using my THX glasses at 2.4 gamma, but this is temporary.
Quote:


As far as I understand, when doing measurements with CCA disabled (to collect data to enter then in the measured values fields of the ISF menu), you have to keep the SM menu on screen as if it disappears, the CCA is switched on. This is my concern. Effectively while taking other measurements there is no need for any menu on the screen.

Actually it holds, or at least in my firmware version so there is no need to leave the menu. Do be careful when entering back into the ISF CMS because the menu might go to a different color and you might be adjusting something you think you were just adjusting, but it's something else. Also remember to apply the entry each time you input a value or they will not stay. I remove the menu for while the CCA is disabled also. Sometimes overlooked also is the lamp waveform. For some meters you may have better results at different lamp waveforms. I used "red boost" but this option gives the least value while others are relatively high.

Quote:


This is a big question. I have noticed some differences from my sources with all the hdmi output parameters on neutral position. For example, I need to raise color saturation on the PJ when watching DBS. This said, may be the advanced settings wich are related to Rec 709 would be the same for all the sources and in this case there is only one Rec709 calibration to do .
In this case, isn't it better to calibrate directly with the PC, using his DVI or HDMI output, as the measurements are done in an automatic (faster) process ?

Sometimes with DBS you get non standard levels for HDMI, which can effect greyscale. The boxes they use usually use 0IRE, which means that you loose color info bellow a certain range if calibrated to 7.5IRE. While the broadcast network may have standards for broadcast, the contributors do not necessarily have similar encoding and even sometimes are broadcast in color space that is very small which will effect the color decoder. Low number of bits in, low number of bits out. You can increase saturation, maybe try switching IRE or also lower your brightness even more. I don't have much other idea without actually seeing it.
Quote:


Thank you!

Selac

Welcome
post #4969 of 5146
Thank you very much SteveMo.

Quote:
As far as I understand, when doing measurements with CCA disabled (to collect data to enter then in the measured values fields of the ISF menu), you have to keep the SM menu on screen as if it disappears, the CCA is switched on. This is my concern. Effectively while taking other measurements there is no need for any menu on the screen.
Quote:
Actually it holds, or at least in my firmware version so there is no need to leave the menu....

So this could mean that when in the SM with CCA disabled, it stays disabled even when the menu has disappeared after the 30sec period (And in this case I suppose CCA turns on only when you hit a button on the remote).
If it is like that, it is not a bad thing for measurements accuracy and also to avoid to play with the remote every 20-25 sec.

Regards

Selac
post #4970 of 5146
Quote:
Originally Posted by selac View Post

Thank you very much SteveMo.



So this could mean that when in the SM with CCA disabled, it stays disabled even when the menu has disappeared after the 30sec period (And in this case I suppose CCA turns on only when you hit a button on the remote).
If it is like that, it is not a bad thing for measurements accuracy and also to avoid to play with the remote every 20-25 sec.

Regards

Selac

To exit out I hit menu and the menu goes away, but CCA is still disabled. It will be enabled again if you change from one temperature to a different one (normal to warm for example), or input a value and hit apply. To enable this again you must go into the SM and re-enable the CCA. Set your measurement gamma, position your meter, take more than a few measurements of green red or blue. You might also want to try adjusting temp to see how this effects your gamut at your distance. Wait around 10 minutes, then measure again. If the results are totally different, your meter may be in the wrong position and distance however, if it looks like green had drifted closer to the triangle or red has drifted closer but maybe measures further towards magenta, it could mean that the lamp could be getting to the designed operating temperature. To further improve accuracy, you can continue to try different distances and keep an idea of what you control at what times for example, green isn't right 15 minutes may mean that blue is right, or red measuring right for more than 30 minutes might mean that green is about to settle.
post #4971 of 5146
Thank you SteveMo for the clarification. I will keep all that in mind when I will begin my calibration.

Regards,

Selac
post #4972 of 5146
Does anybody KNOW FOR SURE if the lamp assemblies for the BenQ W9000/W10000 are the same lamp assemblies for the W5000?

I know the part numbers are different, but that isn't unusual to have the exact same item have different part numbers for different units.

Also, if they are not the same, do they use the same 200/170 bulb? I'm really trying to avoid buying one of those ebay 200/150 bulbs. MY W5000 is fast approaching 2,000 hours and I want to extend its life for another year or so by replacing the bulb.

Thanks,
George
post #4973 of 5146
Quote:
Originally Posted by bub View Post

Does anybody KNOW FOR SURE if the lamp assemblies for the BenQ W9000/W10000 are the same lamp assemblies for the W5000?

I know the part numbers are different, but that isn't unusual to have the exact same item have different part numbers for different units.

Also, if they are not the same, do they use the same 200/170 bulb? I'm really trying to avoid buying one of those ebay 200/150 bulbs. MY W5000 is fast approaching 2,000 hours and I want to extend its life for another year or so by replacing the bulb.

Thanks,
George

As far as I know the W9000/10000 series have 250W bulb. I _think_ it is not the same.
post #4974 of 5146
Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Lebowski View Post

As far as I know the W9000/10000 series have 250W bulb. I _think_ it is not the same.

You are absolutely correct, the W5000 shares the same bulb with the W20000. I'm checking a supplier to see if we can get the 200/170W bare bulbs. I will report back once I've received my answer.

Buy.com has the 200/170W bulb and bulb assembly, I'm assuming OEM, for $315 no tax for most and free shipping.
post #4975 of 5146
Ok Boys, and girls, success. I have found a supplier for the Top 302 200/170W bulb from Philips. It is at www.topbulb.com (I've never dealt with them other than to inquire about the Top 302 bulb). They don't carry it now, in fact if you look up the part number (5J.05Q01.001) from either BenQ or Philips, not sure which, you are actually looking at the Top 272 200/150W bulb, just like everybody else is selling. But, I've been in contact with them and their supplier and they can get the Top 302 200/170W bulb for $150 and flat $9.75 shipping to the US, no tax if outside Indiana.

I believe that Top Bulb is making a new part number for this 200/170W bulb so we will all know what to order. So, don't make an online order just yet or you will get the 200/150W Top 272 bulb, just like you would ordering from ebay or anybody else outside of being included with a bulb assembly (Buy.com has that part for $315 right now). Top Bulb is going to be getting back to me shortly to tell me the new part number for the Top 302 bulb, or how to order that bulb specifically.

George
post #4976 of 5146
Thanks for the update bub.

Jason
post #4977 of 5146
Thanks George. I know this has been a source of irritation to alot of us here with the 150w bulb. I'm at 1600+ hours on the original bulb and have been contemplating a replacement due to the 40% loss of light. My unit will be up for replacement after Cedia so I've decided to suffer it out. At $150 for a new bulb, it's worth it to get those lost lumens back. I'm not one of those that has to have 12ftls, 9-10 is fine. 5-6 I have now is pushing it. Having a standby bulb and projector which the BENQ will become is a good thing.
post #4978 of 5146
I'm surprised not to have heard back from them today. Yesterday, I was about to place an order when I was told they had to generate a part number so my order could be processed and they would contact me, I thought right away.

I guess I waited too long to call them today and they were closed. I will try again tomorrow, but certainly Monday at the latest. Sorry for the delay in information.
post #4979 of 5146
Quote:
Originally Posted by Murilo View Post

So i ended putting the part that says top uhp at the top.

It would be a huge help if anyone can help confirm this, or take a picture for me, i dont want to ruin my projector, or start a fire


It looked exactly like this picture with the connectors on the side, when I put top uhp at the top.

The one thats connected.

The one not connected in the picture is how i had the bulb originally.


http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b3...c/DSC02415.jpg

Murilo, I'm a bit confused by the differences between the pictures you posted and images from the internet showing the Top 272 bulb. Your pictures show a squarish shape with notches, but the images on the internet show a squarish shape but no notches.

Check out this image where it clearly shows the Top 272 200/150W bulb,
http://www.purelandsupply.com/UHP-20...ion-Bulbs.html.

If anybody else has experience with what this bulb is supposed to look like, could you jump in here with your comments?

It looks to me from Murilo's picture that the notches match up to the housing and there looks to me like screening of some sort on the housing that matches the notches. But, the picture on the internet shows no notches but it clearly is the Top 272 200/150W bulb.
post #4980 of 5146
Guys, I'm starting to wonder if we are making a big ado about nothing regarding the 200/170W bulbs we have installed in our W5000's by BenQ and the replacement part being a 200/150W bulb.

I'm looking at all the images of the 200/150W part and I just don't see how the bulb is controlling the wattage. I'm starting to think that the projector controls either 200W or 170W by its high or low setting. If the lamp has a bottom wattage of 150W but the BenQ sends it 170W, wouldn't that be within the range of the bulb?

I think I'm starting to believe that the bulb can accept any wattage provided it as long as it is within the range specified on the bulb. In this case, 200/150W is its range and if the BenQ sends it 170W, then that is its output. If this bulb is placed in a projector that could send 150W, then that is what it would ouput.

I'm really starting to think this is the correct bulb. However, I'm not 100% certain as I've read posts here from some users of the 200/150W bulb claiming that bulb was not as bright as their original 200/170W bulb. I just don't see how the bulb is controlling wattage here. It just looks like a standard type bulb with not controller, doesn't even look like it has a ballast or whatever you call that ceramic piece at the back of a bulb.

Anybody have any input? We must have a bulb expert around here somewhere.

And, I contacted TopBulb about the 200/170W Top 302 bulb but they are still trying to confirm their ability to get the Top 302 bulb and create a part number for it so we can order it.
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