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OFFICIAL "HELP ME CHOOSE A PLAYER" THREAD: Can't decide? Start HERE. - Page 486

post #14551 of 16475
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vampidemic View Post

ARC is for use with HDMI receivers. For instance, if you purchased a new AVR, ARC could allow you to use a single HDMI cable to connect the receiver to the TV. In addition to that HDMI sending video from the various input sources from AVR to the display, the ARC could send audio from the TV sources (tuner, SmartTV apps, etc.) back to the AVR to output the audio using the same cable using to feed video to the display from other HDMI sources.
In your case, you have no need for ARC. You simply need to connect the analog RCA outputs from your TV to an input on your receiver, then any source plugged into the TV should pass audio through to the receiver. Then configure the TV not to use the built in speakers.
The Blu-ray player will automatically downmix the audio to stereo when it sends the audio to the TV over HDMI.

Thanks for the quick reply Vampidemic. Sadly, the new Panasonic hdtvs do not include analog outputs only digital (HDMI and optical). The original plan was to use a simple DAC until I learned they do not decode dobly digital signals. I was hoping I could use a BDP to act as a simple receiver.

I took a closer look at the S590 manual, and you're absolutely right - it does not indicate that the HDMI output is ARC enabled. Overly optimistic on my part..

Are there any DV players that have ARC enabled HDMI?
post #14552 of 16475
Quote:
Originally Posted by dpilot83 View Post

Hi all. New here. Our DVD player just went bad on us so I figured I might as well get a Blu-ray player.
Our TV is just a regular TV. I don't know how big it is but I would guess maybe 27". I totally understand that the TV will never be able to keep up with any Blu-ray player we might buy, but I'm sure we'll upgrade the TV someday.
As far as inputs, the TV has component inputs (Y, Cb, Cr, L, R) and then regular input (Video, L, R) and then an old style antenna input. My main concern is buying a Blu-Ray player that will force us to switch TV's. I don't want to have to do that until the TV gives up.
My normal method in life is to buy good to high quality stuff and keep it forever. I absolutely do not like things that break or otherwise cause problems. That being said, I don't need every gadget out there. I'm not terribly concerned about whether I'll be able to watch in 3D 5 years from now when we have a better TV. I am absolutely not willing to spend more than $500 but if I can get something that won't cause me grief for 1/5 of that, I'll be a happy man. After briefly looking things over I was thinking maybe the Panasonic DMP-BDT220 might fit the bill. Does that sound like a decent choice or is there anything else I should be considering? Thanks.


You didn't provide any specifics about your TV. Is this just a 4:3 aspect ratio standard definition CRT TV set, or a widescreen HDTV set of some sort with only analog inputs?

If you have a standard definition TV, you could use the composite output of most any Blu-ray player to connect to your TV, but the only benefits you're going to get out of upgrading to Blu-ray is compatibility with Blu-ray media and any other features not typically included on DVD players (network based content, for example). This kind of makes sense to me if you invest a significant amount of money in media or if you want the network services such as Netflix, but you should keep a few things in mind:

1) Most disc players are designed to be mass manufactured as cheaply as possible. They're not really designed to last, and they're certainly not designed to be repaired cost effectively. This helps to ensure a future market for their successors. I understand the desire to buy things that last, I miss those days, but that's generally not the way things are made anymore. The Oppo players seem to be an exception to that, but unless you really have a desire for the high end features of the Oppo players, in my mind it would seem silly to drop $500 on a Blu-ray player when you could easily buy yourself a 32" LCD and a decent Blu-ray player for that price.

2) Most BD players, especially in the sub $200 price range, are not designed for high performance over analog audio and video outputs. Most consumers use BD players with HDMI equipped TVs and they work great that way, but the newer players are increasingly not intended to be used any other way. I have not actually used a BD player with an older standard definition TV set via composite connection, but I would not be surprised if it performed worse than the DVD player you are replacing, especially when playing BD discs, which the player will have to downscale to a lower resolution in real time to output to your TV.

Overall, just understand that you're going against the grain if you decide to use a new BD player with an older standard definition TV set. I would tend to recommend either picking up a cheap DVD player to keep you going until you're ready to buy your next TV set, or think about making the jump to an HDTV sooner than later. Otherwise, just understand that your old CRT set is likely to outlast your new BD player. In particular, the optical disc drives tend to wear out after a few years (sometimes sooner), and when that happens it is typically less expensive to replace the entire player than to fix it.

If you have an HDTV with 720i or greater resolution, that changes things. In that case, you will see a benefit to upgrading to Blu-ray, but only if you get an older player that has Component outputs. This is due to "Analog Sunset" (do a search for it) as 2012 and beyond players do not support component outputs. You'll want a 2010 or earlier player or to otherwise ensure that the player you get does not downscale HD content over the HD component outputs.
post #14553 of 16475
Quote:
Originally Posted by snidely View Post

I think the current Sony model (S590?) is available for under $100. It seems to be a toss up here between the Panny you mention and the Sony. Fry's does have good prices - however - they don't always clearly disclose whether the object they are selling is new or used. (The use euphemisms like "reconditioned"," remanufactured", "factory inspected"/)

I ended up going with the Panasonic 220 from Amazon. It was $20 more, but was in stock and I trust Amazon more than Fry's. I also get free 2-day shipping as a prime member. The deciding factor for me was that the disc loading times and Amazon Instant Video interface are better on the Panasonic. My wife also likes the look of the Panasonic better, and I am kind of leary of the Sony after the "cannot operate this disc" messages I have been getting.
post #14554 of 16475
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vampidemic View Post

You didn't provide any specifics about your TV. Is this just a 4:3 aspect ratio standard definition CRT TV set, or a widescreen HDTV set of some sort with only analog inputs?
If you have a standard definition TV, you could use the composite output of most any Blu-ray player to connect to your TV, but the only benefits you're going to get out of upgrading to Blu-ray is compatibility with Blu-ray media and any other features not typically included on DVD players (network based content, for example). This kind of makes sense to me if you invest a significant amount of money in media or if you want the network services such as Netflix, but you should keep a few things in mind:
1) Most disc players are designed to be mass manufactured as cheaply as possible. They're not really designed to last, and they're certainly not designed to be repaired cost effectively. This helps to ensure a future market for their successors. I understand the desire to buy things that last, I miss those days, but that's generally not the way things are made anymore. The Oppo players seem to be an exception to that, but unless you really have a desire for the high end features of the Oppo players, in my mind it would seem silly to drop $500 on a Blu-ray player when you could easily buy yourself a 32" LCD and a decent Blu-ray player for that price.
2) Most BD players, especially in the sub $200 price range, are not designed for high performance over analog audio and video outputs. Most consumers use BD players with HDMI equipped TVs and they work great that way, but the newer players are increasingly not intended to be used any other way. I have not actually used a BD player with an older standard definition TV set via composite connection, but I would not be surprised if it performed worse than the DVD player you are replacing, especially when playing BD discs, which the player will have to downscale to a lower resolution in real time to output to your TV.
Overall, just understand that you're going against the grain if you decide to use a new BD player with an older standard definition TV set. I would tend to recommend either picking up a cheap DVD player to keep you going until you're ready to buy your next TV set, or think about making the jump to an HDTV sooner than later. Otherwise, just understand that your old CRT set is likely to outlast your new BD player. In particular, the optical disc drives tend to wear out after a few years (sometimes sooner), and when that happens it is typically less expensive to replace the entire player than to fix it.
If you have an HDTV with 720i or greater resolution, that changes things. In that case, you will see a benefit to upgrading to Blu-ray, but only if you get an older player that has Component outputs. This is due to "Analog Sunset" (do a search for it) as 2012 and beyond players do not support component outputs. You'll want a 2010 or earlier player or to otherwise ensure that the player you get does not downscale HD content over the HD component outputs.

That was an amazing reply. Thanks. Our TV is a normal CRT. It was given to us so that's why I don't know much about it. Sounds like I have a decision to make then. Either buy both now or go with a DVD player. I really do appreciate your insight. Thanks.
post #14555 of 16475
Quote:
Originally Posted by ad720 View Post

Good questions. I really don't know what I want to do with it so I should do some research. Thanks for the info.

Following up - I ended up with the LG BP220 and the load time is faster and it's more featured so I am happy.
post #14556 of 16475
Quote:
Originally Posted by spec1alk View Post

I ended up going with the Panasonic 220 from Amazon. It was $20 more, but was in stock and I trust Amazon more than Fry's. I also get free 2-day shipping as a prime member. The deciding factor for me was that the disc loading times and Amazon Instant Video interface are better on the Panasonic. My wife also likes the look of the Panasonic better, and I am kind of leary of the Sony after the "cannot operate this disc" messages I have been getting.

The interface may be better in terms of artwork support and eye candy but the fact the Sony supports wishlists and more importantly dolby digital 5.1 bitstream output for amazon makes it a better overal amazon player.
post #14557 of 16475
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vampidemic View Post

I don't have a direct answer to your question, but most manufacturers release new models earlier in the year and the new Oppo's don't seem to have dual band Wi-Fi, so I'm guessing no.
Some manufactures that previously offered dual band Wi-Fi have removed it from newer models, presumably to lower cost. I believe both Sony and LG have done this.
Since this feature seems to be uncommon, have you considered using a dual band wireless bridge to feed the Ethernet jack on your player? This may yield better performance than the cheap wireless components built into most players regardless of whether dual band or not. If you go that route you can pick a player based on other features that can't be easily worked around and possibly use the bridge to feed other devices in the same location as well.

I like your thinking. I might have to go that route of getting the bridge along with a good BR player that has everything else that I want.
Thank you
post #14558 of 16475
Hi ! (First post !)

What do people think of the

Panasonic - 3D Wi-Fi Built-In Blu-ray Player - DMP-BDT220 ?

It is currently $99 at Best Buy. I just ordered a Panasonic p50ut50 for my basement with a Denon AVR-1613 for 5.1 surround, and I wanted a decent 3d blu ray player to go with it...
Edited by ProfD - 12/31/12 at 6:37am
post #14559 of 16475
Quote:
Originally Posted by ProfD View Post

Hi ! (First post !)
What do people think of the
Panasonic - 3D Wi-Fi Built-In Blu-ray Player - DMP-BDT220 ?
It is currently $99 at Best Buy. I just ordered a Panasonic p50ut50 for my basement with a Denon AVR-1613 for 5.1 surround, and I wanted a decent 3d blu ray player to go with it...
The Panny 220 and Sony 590 are the 2 most popular 3D players (a coin flip), unless you want to go higher end with the Oppo 103.
post #14560 of 16475
Quote:
Originally Posted by BillP View Post

The Panny 220 and Sony 590 are the 2 most popular 3D players (a coin flip), unless you want to go higher end with the Oppo 103.

Thanks.

I'd rather buy a cheaper one (so that I don't feel as bad about replacing it later if I choose to do so). It is also hard for me to imagine my family taking advantage of (or appreciating) the higher end functionalities.

I just looked around and ordered the 220 from Frys.com for $79.99 with free shipping. It says "backordered" but hopefully it will come after not too long. I am not in immediate need of it anyways...

EDIT: I just read some posters saying that Frys.com sometimes sells "refurbs" without adequately informing the customer. How I can determine if Frys.com is planning to send me a refurb (I couldn't see any indication on the Fry page personally). If that were going to be the case I'd rather buy it new from BB.com for the extra $20.
post #14561 of 16475
Quote:
Originally Posted by ProfD View Post

EDIT: I just read some posters saying that Frys.com sometimes sells "refurbs" without adequately informing the customer. How I can determine if Frys.com is planning to send me a refurb (I couldn't see any indication on the Fry page personally). If that were going to be the case I'd rather buy it new from BB.com for the extra $20.
I believe that's illegal. I would print out the price from Frys website and bring it to Best Buy. They are really good at matching even online prices lately (probably because they are not doing so well). They definitely match Amazon prices! However, you need to wait until Frys has it available (they won't match it if Backordered).
post #14562 of 16475
Happy holidays, everyone! I posted this on the Official S790 thread but thought it wouldn't hurt to also post it here.

I'm trying to replace my fat 40GB PS3 and have narrowed down my choice to either the S790 or BDT-500.
Upscaling is not too important, since I really don't use/watch DVD. I understand the BDT-500 may have slightly better audio than the S790, but that too is not terribly important in my particular 7.1 system/set-up.

Just looking for a reliable player that runs cool, is quiet, has the quickest load time and best possible 2D video quality. I know... why bother with a 3D player? Seems like manufactures pack the best performance (faster processors) into their 3D line of players.
Has anyone owned both of the above mentioned players? If so, which is faster in terms of load times? I realize load times are highly dependent on the disk content (java, etc...). Thanks!
post #14563 of 16475
Quote:
Originally Posted by PeteST View Post

Happy holidays, everyone! I posted this on the Official S790 thread but thought it wouldn't hurt to also post it here.
I'm trying to replace my fat 40GB PS3 and have narrowed down my choice to either the S790 or BDT-500.
Upscaling is not too important, since I really don't use/watch DVD. I understand the BDT-500 may have slightly better audio than the S790, but that too is not terribly important in my particular 7.1 system/set-up.
Just looking for a reliable player that runs cool, is quiet, has the quickest load time and best possible 2D video quality. I know... why bother with a 3D player? Seems like manufactures pack the best performance (faster processors) into their 3D line of players.
Has anyone owned both of the above mentioned players? If so, which is faster in terms of load times? I realize load times are highly dependent on the disk content (java, etc...). Thanks!
Several of us. The Panasonics are slightly faster loading. Remember, we're only talking seconds here and not minutes. Not sure you really need the 500 or 790 if you're not running 3D. What 's your setup? There is no difference in the Panasonic models AQ/PQ between players. The biggest thing for the 500 is it offers a less expensive analog solution than the Oppo. The 790 only adds more processing because it scales to 4K.

S~
post #14564 of 16475
Quote:
Originally Posted by teachsac View Post

Several of us. The Panasonics are slightly faster loading. Remember, we're only talking seconds here and not minutes. Not sure you really need the 500 or 790 if you're not running 3D. What 's your setup? There is no difference in the Panasonic models AQ/PQ between players. The biggest thing for the 500 is it offers a less expensive analog solution than the Oppo. The 790 only adds more processing because it scales to 4K.
S~

Thanks for the reply/feedback. My equipment consists of the following. It's a bit outdated, so please don't laugh.
Monitor: Elite Pro-141FD
Receiver: Elite VSX-84TXSi
Speakers: Revel Concerta line
Blu-ray player: PS3 (fat)
Everything is connected via HDMI.

If there are other (non-3D) players on the market that have blazingly fast load times, then I'd surely get one of those instead. However, it is my impression that manufacturers simply don't put the better (faster) chips/processors into their "regular" 2D players. Therefore, if you want faster load times and perhaps better 2D performance, you need to step up to their 3D players, which in general are packed with the better hardware & software.

Thoughts?

Pete
post #14565 of 16475
Quote:
Originally Posted by PeteST View Post

Thanks for the reply/feedback. My equipment consists of the following. It's a bit outdated, so please don't laugh.
Monitor: Elite Pro-141FD
Receiver: Elite VSX-84TXSi
Speakers: Revel Concerta line
Blu-ray player: PS3 (fat)
Everything is connected via HDMI.
If there are other (non-3D) players on the market that have blazingly fast load times, then I'd surely get one of those instead. However, it is my impression that manufacturers simply don't put the better (faster) chips/processors into their "regular" 2D players. Therefore, if you want faster load times and perhaps better 2D performance, you need to step up to their 3D players, which in general are packed with the better hardware & software.
Thoughts?
Pete
Panasonic uses the same proprietary chipset in all of their players. Features really distinguish their players. If you are running everything through your receiver, you can get by with the Panasonic 220. The non 3D Panasonics lose out in streaming features and such. You should be able to run one HDMI cable through your receiver to the TV and set the player to PCM for decoding. No real need for two HDMIs if you aren't using 3D.

S~
post #14566 of 16475
Quote:
Originally Posted by teachsac View Post

Panasonic uses the same proprietary chipset in all of their players. Features really distinguish their players. If you are running everything through your receiver, you can get by with the Panasonic 220. The non 3D Panasonics lose out in streaming features and such. You should be able to run one HDMI cable through your receiver to the TV and set the player to PCM for decoding. No real need for two HDMIs if you aren't using 3D.
S~

Hmmm... I thought I read somewhere that the 220 is slower (longer load times) than the 500. Yeah, not really interested in the ability to stream since the resulting PQ is still inferior to Blu-ray. Wish the local B&M's around here carried all three players (Bdt220, bdt500 and S790), so I could try/test for myself. If load times are the same between the 220 and 500 (and PQ is also the same of course), then I'm all over the 220.
post #14567 of 16475
Quote:
Originally Posted by PeteST View Post

Hmmm... I thought I read somewhere that the 220 is slower (longer load times) than the 500. Yeah, not really interested in the ability to stream since the resulting PQ is still inferior to Blu-ray. Wish the local B&M's around here carried all three players (Bdt220, bdt500 and S790), so I could try/test for myself. If load times are the same between the 220 and 500 (and PQ is also the same of course), then I'm all over the 220.
Not so sure about that. Anyways. Either Panasonic or Sony are great choices. Each has its own advantages and disadvantages. Some objective, some subjective. Good luck with whichever you decide on.

S~
post #14568 of 16475
Quote:
Originally Posted by PeteST View Post

...not really interested in the ability to stream since the resulting PQ is still inferior to Blu-ray.
Kind of an odd position to take. You're missing out on a lot of really good stuff. I assume you refuse to watch terrestrial TV, cable, satellite, FIOS and DVD as well. 1080p Netflix is excellent. 1080p Vudu is even better. Not BD quality of course, but quite close. I doubt you could tell the difference unless you closely examined both side by side.
post #14569 of 16475
Quote:
Originally Posted by PeteST View Post

Hmmm... I thought I read somewhere that the 220 is slower (longer load times) than the 500. Yeah, not really interested in the ability to stream since the resulting PQ is still inferior to Blu-ray. Wish the local B&M's around here carried all three players (Bdt220, bdt500 and S790), so I could try/test for myself. If load times are the same between the 220 and 500 (and PQ is also the same of course), then I'm all over the 220.

you might want to check out vudu. the PQ is closer to blu ray then say netflix.

Jacob
post #14570 of 16475
Thanks for all the great feedback/suggestions. It helps. I'll probably start out with the BDT-220 and then see if I want/need to go up from there. I have/use FIOS and Blu-ray for high def content but greatly prefer Blu-ray for all movies. Never been interested in Netflix, Vudu, etc... simply because I always thought they were significantly inferior to Blu-ray. Yeah, I'm sort of a PQ snob. However, if Vudu is really that close to Blu-ray, then I'll have to give it a try. Thanks again & Happy New Year!
post #14571 of 16475
VUDU gives you a free movie when signing up and registering your player. Give it a shot.

S~
post #14572 of 16475
Quote:
Originally Posted by teachsac View Post

VUDU gives you a free movie when signing up and registering your player. Give it a shot.
S~

Will do. Thanks again.
Of course, we all know where this will lead.
- buy the bdt220 & try/stream a Vudu 1080p movie
- discover I really like the convenience & surprisingly great PQ compared to Blu-ray
- want a player that has a greater feature set & faster streaming capabilities than the bdt220
- return the bdt220 and get the bdt500, s790 or one of the Oppo's
- ....

Oh well. January is my birthday month, after all!
post #14573 of 16475
Still won't see a difference between the 220/500. The Oppo on the other hand is a different story. Down side of the Oppo is the amount of streaming apps. There's the ROKU for that, though.

S~
post #14574 of 16475
Quote:
Originally Posted by PeteST View Post

Will do. Thanks again.
Of course, we all know where this will lead.
- buy the bdt220 & try/stream a Vudu 1080p movie
- discover I really like the convenience & surprisingly great PQ compared to Blu-ray
- want a player that has a greater feature set & faster streaming capabilities than the bdt220
- return the bdt220 and get the bdt500, s790 or one of the Oppo's
- ....
Oh well. January is my birthday month, after all!

you cannt go wrong with getting an oppo. there are also 2 minute previews on vudu and free trailers as well.

Jacob
post #14575 of 16475
Quote:
Originally Posted by crystalfinger View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vampidemic View Post

ARC is for use with HDMI receivers. For instance, if you purchased a new AVR, ARC could allow you to use a single HDMI cable to connect the receiver to the TV. In addition to that HDMI sending video from the various input sources from AVR to the display, the ARC could send audio from the TV sources (tuner, SmartTV apps, etc.) back to the AVR to output the audio using the same cable using to feed video to the display from other HDMI sources.
In your case, you have no need for ARC. You simply need to connect the analog RCA outputs from your TV to an input on your receiver, then any source plugged into the TV should pass audio through to the receiver. Then configure the TV not to use the built in speakers.
The Blu-ray player will automatically downmix the audio to stereo when it sends the audio to the TV over HDMI.

Thanks for the quick reply Vampidemic. Sadly, the new Panasonic hdtvs do not include analog outputs only digital (HDMI and optical). The original plan was to use a simple DAC until I learned they do not decode dobly digital signals. I was hoping I could use a BDP to act as a simple receiver.

I took a closer look at the S590 manual, and you're absolutely right - it does not indicate that the HDMI output is ARC enabled. Overly optimistic on my part..

Are there any DV players that have ARC enabled HDMI?

I don't know of any BD players that can do this. However, you might look into something like this:

http://www.gefen.com/kvm/dproduct.jsp?prod_id=5980
post #14576 of 16475
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vampidemic View Post

I don't know of any BD players that can do this. However, you might look into something like this:
http://www.gefen.com/kvm/dproduct.jsp?prod_id=5980

the new oppo 103/105 can do it.

Jacob
post #14577 of 16475
Hi, all. I'm looking into purchasing my first BD player, but am finding some difficulty in figuring out some of the details. I'm specifically looking for a region-free / multi-region (hackable) player. Important features for me include: HD component output (possibly with converter box), coax digital audio output, future-proofing regarding copy protection and updated keys, and low cost. Unimportant features to me would include BD live, wifi/ethernet connectivity, 3D and load time. My current candidate is the Toshiba BDX1200 with a converter box. Am I off the mark here?

The vexxing thing seems to be HDMI output and HDCP converter boxes. The newer HDCP versions don't look like they work with older HDMI to component converter boxes. It is unclear to me what versions are required on either end. Can anyone make any recommendations? Is any information available about what version of HDCP the BDX1200 uses?

Thanks much and happy new year.
post #14578 of 16475
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vampidemic View Post

I don't know of any BD players that can do this. However, you might look into something like this:
http://www.gefen.com/kvm/dproduct.jsp?prod_id=5980

Awesome, been looking around for something like that. About the same price as buying Blu Ray with streaming, but if I decide to avoid a disc player that's an option (EDIT) - after reading reviews of this on Amazon Im sensing it's not entirely reliable, and there's some documented issues with sync due to the decoding. I think Im gonna look into a streaming blu ray player like the 220 or the s590 and listen to broadcast signals on the tv's speakers.

Jacob - I was reading up on the 103/105 back in November they're probably the units that gave me the idea in the first place.. wishlist.
Edited by crystalfinger - 1/1/13 at 11:57am
post #14579 of 16475
Quote:
Originally Posted by ProfD

EDIT: I just read some posters saying that Frys.com sometimes sells "refurbs" without adequately informing the customer. How I can determine if Frys.com is planning to send me a refurb (I couldn't see any indication on the Fry page personally). If that were going to be the case I'd rather buy it new from BB.com for the extra $20.

I believe that's illegal. I would print out the price from Frys website and bring it to Best Buy. They are really good at matching even online prices lately (probably because they are not doing so well). They definitely match Amazon prices! However, you need to wait until Frys has it available (they won't match it if Backordered).

======
I may have exaggerated (just a little) about Fry's not always making it as clear as they should in their ads if a product is really new. They do seem to label "used" items as such and not new in the stores.
We are "bi-coastal" (Oakland/Miami) and often go to Compusa in Miami (a regional chain like Fry's but their stores are a fraction of the size of the massive Fry's stores). A lot of items, like GPS items, they sell are "used". It seemed like half of the 10-12 units on display last month were not "new".

mike
post #14580 of 16475
Hi all.
I'm from Argentina.
My brother is currently in NYC, so I'm thinking about asking him to bring me a budget 3D BD player.
These are the ones I found: Sony BDP-S590, Panasonic DMP-BDT220, Samsung BD-E5900 and LG BP62 (all $149.99 list price)
Besides picture quality, I'm interested that the player plays nice with all kinds of video and audio formats.
Also, I know all of them will be Region A, but what about DVD Regions? (I have lots of region 1 and region 4 discs)
So, what do you think? Which one do you recommend?
Thanks in advance.

PS: Any of those brands offer international warranty?
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