OFFICIAL "HELP ME CHOOSE A PLAYER" THREAD: Can't decide? Start HERE. - Page 69

Mine is. I have the Monoprice 4x1. I got for $35 off of ebay. It comes with a remote as well that you can program into your Harmony or similar device.

My HDX-301 is not automatic and I include in my Harmony activity setups. I've read that some people have trouble with the automatic ones because HDMI activity is not consistent across all devices.

Hello all!

I was hoping to seek a little advice. I currently own 2 PS3's, which I use strictly as BD players. While I love them, I am wondering if there is something better out there. I would replace only one, since the other one is in the bedroom, and having the best in there isn't exactly a priority to me, atleast not at the moment. I do have a budget, and would like to keep it under $1000.00.

That being said, what do you guys think?

Well, now it is time for me to go back to SQUARE ONE, back to the drawing board and rethink my priorities on what I want.

Originally, I wanted a BD player that could bitstream and do great DVD upscalling. I tried these:

Sony S300/S500 - horribly sloooooow, and as so long ago, can't remember if they could bitstream DTS HDMA or not, but they were slooooooow! Returned both.

Panasonic BD30 - nice, liked it a lot. As it would bitstream everything (yipeeee), I didn't have the LFE problem, the BD looked great, had a good info screen (sort of important to me, got spoiled by the PS3 one), but DVD was not so good. Returned it also because the BD50 was coming with BD LIVE.

Samsung 2550 - was ok with BD and could bitstream, poor info screen though, very good DVD upscale, but sort of clunky, and had weird problems with Resident Evil Apocolypse with screen corruption. As I also had the Sony S350 (see next), which I liked much better, was cheaper, did not care for the quality of the Samsung unit (it feels cheap, even the remote!!!), and honestly could not tell the DVD PQ being all that much different between the two, I returrned it.

Sony S350 - I liked this one a lot, and thought it was going to be a keeper. But when I heard about the price drop, decided to return it and get it later (maybe). Had good BD PQ, excellent (near PS3 ammount) info screen, could bitstream, pretty fast loading (though the 2550 was a touch faster, but perhaps why it had screen corruption - on how it was pre-loading?), and seemed to have a pretty good DVD PQ. But I have heard others say it is soft, and the new S550 will have a different chip in it (S350 is NEC, S550 is Sigma). So I returned it to maybe get it later after the price drop, or get the S550 which *should* be even better (???) with DVD PQ.

Then I went a WEIRD route . . . . started to try out dual format players:

LG BH200 - I had heard this was a quality player, and being a dual format, just this one player could do EVERYTHING, so I could remove 3 players off my rack for just this one (and sell the others - PS3, Tosh A35, and old Pio 59AVi). Well, I DID fall in love with this player. Everything about it says it was very good quality (cost $1000 when they first came out). Great looking box, not very heavy, not loud, never got hot, EXCELLENT eye candy and nifty bells & whistles, awesome PQ in HD, BD, and WOW PQ in DVD (I think the QDEO in the BH200 was supperior to the Reon in the Samsung!). It could bitstream, load times were quite fast (BUT AFTER the initial internal loading time it would take to determine what disc it was - HD or BD or DVD or CD), everything was GREAT about this player, except!!! When I was using my Onkyo 805 everything would be ok through bitstream, though would get an occasional HDMI audio handshaking problem with some HD DVD DD+ movies during pause/play/chapter changes (805 would show it was getting a stereo signal instead of DD+ and play loud modulating static from all my speakers). But when I bought a new Pioneer SC-05 AVR, all movies (BD & HD) except for normal DVD's had the "stereo" signal problem Replies back from both LG and Pioneer made it feel like this problem would not be looked into. From further research, it is NOT the Pio's problem, but LG's as it appears the HDMI audio handshaking may have been broken in their last FW update. Also, there was no 100% positive feedback whether this would ever get a BD Live capable FW update. So I returned it, SADLY. This was one very high quality player!!!!!

Samsung 5000 - after going back to the PS3 again, I did more research, and wanted to go back and find another BH200 to try it again, and this time REALLY try to make it work. But, the only 2 available now in my local area BB were two totally TRASHED open box ones. So I ended up finding a good deal on this Samsung dual format 5000 with HQV in it. In one word - RETURN! This may have been Samsung's direct competition to the LG BH200, but it loses hands down to the LG in every checklist and quality of build. It is clunky, it is slow (menu in HD DVD Transformers takes near 45 seconds to jerkily slide up - on the Tosh A35 it smoothly glides up!), cheap remote (near same as my old Samsung DVD/VCR combo recorder), DVD menu is slow though the PQ is very good (but still the LG QDEO is better I think!!!), same poor info screen as the 2550, has slow DVD layer changes (watching LOTR2), and no one also knows if it will ever get BD Live support. So back it goes shortly.

***** Also of note!!!!!!! Both Samsung 5000 and 2550 have NO settings to get 4:3 DVD to play right. They come stretched out on the screen. The LG BH200 also does the same, but there is still hope that might get fixed, as the new LG BD300 appears to share some common elements that would make a new FW update for the BH200 a posibility

So that brings me to now. What to do? Well, if I can never find another BH200 to try and get it to work right with my new SC-05 AVR again, then I have to re-think my priorities. For HD DVD I will now go back to using the Tosh A35 which workd great anyway for HD DVD, and it does a pretty good job at DVD upscalling (and plays the 4:3 perfectly without needing to change any settings!). So what to do with choosing the next BD player??? My choices are:

LG BD300 - can't argue with getting NetFlix streaming movies, as I am already a subscriber! Should have just as excellent BD PQ and AQ as the BH200, but as there has been no mention of QDEO in it, not sure how DVD upscaling would be with it. But can always fall back to the A35 for that, and enjoy the added feature of the NetFlix online with this!!!! The BH200 had a fair info screen, hope this one would have a better one though?

Sony S550 - WILL the new "Cinema" chip in this really be different, better than the S350? Will it upscale DVD better? Should have similar, if not better info screen to the S350, which is near as good as the PS3 one.

Panasonic BD35 - no need for the more expensice BD55 for me, as I have HDMI 1.3a AVR and don't need analog. But will the UniPhier chip really be THAT improved over the BD30/50 for DVD upscalling? The older one was considered too soft for many. The BD30 had a decent info screen, should be the same or better on this one.

So, which one will it be? And NO! The PS3 is not an option. I will be selling it as soon as I find which one of the three up above will be on my rack. I have a 360 for consule games, but prefer playing most games on my computer. So the PS3 was only used for BD movies. And though the new Pioneer SC-05 breathed new life into the sound quality of LPCM coming out of the PS3, it still sounds better to me hearing the actual bitstreamed out DTS HDMA soundtrack!!!!!! Testing the movie Rambo (the latest one) with the PS3 (LPCM), Samsung 5000 and LG BH200 (bitstream), there was just a touch more "surround" feel to the bitstream signal, and it was also a touch crisper in detail, and the PS3 LPCM seems just a wee bit muffled *TO MY EARS*.

Under $1000...take your pick I was actually thinking of buying another PS3 for the bedroom just so I could stream movies and shows (divx) from my computer in the living room. It's just a convenience factor.

If you really want a standalone, I would try a Panasonic BD30 or 50. If you don't like it, you could always return it.

Why are you here asking for device when you've already bought and returned numerous BD players to see what it is that you are after? I highly doubt that regardless of reviews, etc, it's going to stop you from buying and returning yet more BD players in some attempt to find the perfect machine.

If I sound a bit ticked off it's because people that abuse return policies drive the prices up for the rest of us and make it harder for us to do a legitimate return should the need arise.

for you lucky b&k owners--the denon 3800 is the only one that will output dts maHD (but NOT dts HD HR) over analog as well as true HD. also has realta video procesing, great redbook cd playback). since you guys went with a quality unit when you got your B&K you might consider this fantastic but pricey unit now.

I am VERY VERY concerned about the increasing number of blu laser failures on several different units I have read about on this forum (and my own sammy 5000 (nice pictue but audio dropouts, blu laser failure, firmware NIGHTMARE--avoid at all cost!!!). Maybe we should start a registry...of note the 5000 still plays hddvd's perfectly--i still think hddvd was the better and more reliable format...

Thanks for the valuable info WRX_Rocky. In response to criticism that followed your post, I understand that some people abuse return policies, but stores that have liberal return policies do so to please their customers. If we were considering a new Blu ray player and could not return it, we might not buy at all.

Liberal return policies help all of us build components that are compatible and work together properly. There is no way to know in advance if this is true, especially if a purchase is made immediately after release of new equipment. I posted about returning my Sony 350 and was criticized in another thread here and had my morals questioned, even though it is the first time I returned an av component in memory. FWIW, the store put it back out as an open box item for the same price they had sold it to me ( I had used one of their coupons). I hope that we will not all face judgment from our peers here for returning an item that doesn't quite satisfy our expectations.

Likewise, I hope that nobody will try to get a free new unit every year from a retailer, as I heard of others doing. That really is abusing a return policy, and I believe Costco changed theirs, in part, due to such abuses. The economy may also play a part in future changes of return policies.

I am still reading for information that will help my next purchase, hopefully, be my last. It really is hard to know what new Blu ray to buy with new units being released in quick succession. Your experience may prevent others from buying and returning unsatisfactory units. Thanks.

Thank you for understanding. I am not out to abuse the return policies! But, I also do not want to get stuck with a player that I will not enjoy, or as with the Samsung 5000 or LG BH200 - have a player that has bugs and does not work right, AND the company is showing signs of abandoning support and no longer releasing FW updates to fix their units. I just now found out that the Samsung 5000 has problems with all HD DVD menus being slow (they did NOT implement Microsoft's HDi, but their own, and no fix for that!!!), and The Kingdom in HD locks up the player hard. Also, both the 5000 and BH200 do not play 4:3 DVD movies correctly - they stretch the pic out to the entire screen. So everyone looks squat shaped, and everything it out of whack. Also, your TV screen adjustment does not fix this either. And of course, not to mention the BH200 having HDMI audio handshake problems.

So, how would anyone be made aware of these, if someone didn't try them out first? Every purchase I made, had been with the intent of KEEPING the unit. I TRULY wanted the LG BH200 the most too! But if I could not get the correct audio signal to my Pio AVR, I would not be able to use it!

Also make note - as I inteded to keep these players when I bought them, I took EXTREME CARE with them, even cleaning off fingerprints or any dust! And when I have returned them, they are not only in perfect shape, but are even better than when I first bought them - because now they are also updated with the very latest FW and drivers (in the case of the BH200 for the actual disk drive), and if they did not have manufacturer's problems (like the 5000 and BH200), they ARE basically like new, or better than new. And think about this - how many had problems getting their networks to work so to update their players? No problem with these, already done

Hello,

I am looking into purchasing a Blue Ray Player.

Am wondering if all models support Double Layer disks.
Disks such as Verbatim 95357's.

Also would like to know if any writer can work or do I have to look for a specific writer to record on these disks?

Most appreciated,

Mr.Panda

Scott,
Why do you have to bump up the LFE setting 10 or 15? Is this something inherit with the new formats or the player? Thanks.
Matt

Not sure why this was moved but seems fine to me.
No reply as to yet.

Once again Verbatim has given me wrong information.
The disks I was asking about are not DL disks at all.

What I am asking about is their 95531 30GB DL disks.

Can someone please reply to my questions?

Thank you,

Mr.Panda

hey just so you know. Since you already have a 360. Netflix will be able to stream on the Xbox 360 just like the LG BD300. Right now movies will be streamed in DVD quaulity, but rumor is they will stream HD content at some point.... I would think the 360 would be able to be upgraded to HD... LG BD300 I'm not so sure about.

I've never bought a Blu-Ray but am looking for one. My short list is
LG BD300
Sony BDP-S550
Panisonic BD55
I do need my player to Decode all sound and output analog as my receiver is a 6.1 w/ no HDMI.

Thanks for telling us your past experience.

It's inherent in multichannel analog transmission and is not related to the new audio formats or to a specific player.

LFE is recorded 10db lower than the other channels so that the audio won't clip under peak loads for things like loud explosions. With digital, the software in most AVRs knows to add the required 10db boost. With analog, the user has to do the boost. Many receivers have an option to increase the SW output by 10db when using the analog inputs.

LFE on disc is deliberately record 10dB low to allow extra headroom for stuff like explosions. This is not new. It's done that way in traditional DD5.1 and DTS tracks as well.

This means that the LFE track read off the disc has to be boosted by 10dB before being sent to the subwoofer so as to be in balance with the other speaker channels.

The details on all of this can be found in the first post of this sticky thread in the Audio Theory forum here:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=748147

That thread will also explain why sometimes the proper boost is actually 15dB.
--Bob

I doubt anyone here knows if "all models" will support those discs. You might get more responses if you can narrow down your interest to a few specific players and ask the question in the player specific thread for each of those players.

There are lots of folks here interested in writing their own discs, so you ought to get some responses, but most folks here haven't explored this territory beyond one or two players.
--Bob

If you had spent half the time you've spent with all these players on figuring out exactly what's not set right on your receiver that's changing the PS3's sound, you'd already be happy.

Glad some of my sweat went towards helping some folks

And yes, I just started to read up on the 360 and NetFlix - and why tonight I traded my first edition non-HDMI 360 for a new one with HDMI. And it seems the newer ones have some improvements to them as well. Besides, my older one was starting to be a pain anyway, every so often the game would stop and tell me it was a dirty disk, yet the disk was clean. So guess now I am all set for that. Thanks


Ahhh, yet another fanatic PS3 "fan" boy (LOL - seeing as the fan noise is such a big deal to most ha ha). Yeah, the same old line too - BLAME the RECEIVER for poor sound, but oooooh NEVER blame the "golden cow" PS3, nooooooo! A sacrilidge!

Well bucko, I HAVE spent some time trying to get the PS3 to sound good, seeing as mine is one of the first batch that came out and so have had plenty of time to try. And it just is not up to snuff like YOU want to make it out to be. For FPS games and MMORPG I have my COMPUTER. For some console games, I prefer the XBox 360 - even have Rainbow 6 LV for all 3 systems, and I prefer the PC > 360 > and then the PS3 for quality. On the PS3, RB6LV looks too dark and grainy, making it difficult to play. As for Gran Turismo? I race my REAL car in SCCA, so why play a game that is not real? And so, I PREFER a dedicated BD player, and also hope that it has a better DVD upscaller than the PS3 as well. Now go preach the virtues of the PS3 to the kiddies, ok?

Oh, and for those guitar games??? Ha! I still have my 1971 Les Paul Deluxe, so I can play a real guitar anytime I want to.

WRX, i think you should go and buy them all, and do your own shoot out.

That may really help some AVS members.

I think he (WRX) should run for president. He is definitely the most experienced and educated man on earth (just ask him) and he is from Texas!

Yes, even though hundreds of reviewers have said that the PS3 produces completely accurate sound, and the PS3 has been tested and blessed by numerous persons here at AVS with sound systems costing 10's of thousands of dollars, and the PS3 is used as a reference player by Criterion.

Even despite all of that, you've found the hidden flaw in the PS3 in regards to audio.

You're a genius!!

Here's a clue. The PS3 has a lot of things it could do better, but audio is not one of them.

I am friggen lost in all of this which is not good, as I feel it is part of my profession to really understand this stuff so I think its best I get it involved in BR ASAP.

Heres what I currently have:
Denon AVR-3806 Receiver, which has analog inputs but I doubt is over HDMI 1.1
Denon DVD-2910 DVD Player
Sony KDE-37XS955 Plasma

Within the year I will likely be moving to the Sony 46" Z series, XBR6, or 52"W series. I have not decided yet.

I have a 5.1 Focal cobalt set of tower speakers, bookshelf rears, and the center.

I have no interest is switching to 7.1...ever

Will a sony BDP-S350 be all I need?
Would the Panasonic be fine where I can let my higher end denon play normal DVDs?

Any suggestions are very welcome even on the TV.
I assume I would be going around my receiver for the new TV as my system is not HDMI 1.3?
Would it be better to use the analog outs or the digital on optical?

With your current AVR, you need a player that decodes both TrueHD and dts-MA (assuming that lossless audio is important to you). The S350 does TrueHD, but not dts-MA. The Panasonic BD50 (discontinued) is the only moderately priced "decoding all" BD player. The new BD35 and BD55 will also decode all formats and would work with your receiver.

As for connectivity (leaving the new TV out of the equation for the moment), you can use either HDMI or analog with your receiver. The player will do the decoding and send PCM to the Denon 3806 over HDMI or it can do the digital-analog conversion and send six analog outputs to your Denon. Do not use optical if you want lossless because the S/PDIF protocol does not support multichannel PCM. It maxes out at two channels.

As for your new TV, others may know whether there's any advantage to some of the newer video features that require HDMI 1.3. If not, you can use HDMI from the player to the AVR to the TV. But, if you can improve the video by going directly from your player to your display with HDMI 1.3, then you'd need to use analog to get multichannel lossless audio. That would eliminate the BD35 from consideration because it lacks analog outputs.

By the way, the PS3 would also work for you if you use an HDMI connection to your receiver. The PS3 decodes all formats. But, like the BD35, it only has stereo analog outputs.

Thank you BIslander and Bob Pariseau for your input. I appreciate your expertise and links to helpful posts. I have a number of SACD and DVD Audio discs that I play using the 5.1 analog inputs on my Outlaw 950 but I have never had to bump up the LFE when playing these kinds of discs. I hear plenty of bass as it is. The 950 preamp does have analog bass management where the crossover gets set at 80Hz. Thanks again for the information and sorry about the spelling on inherent.

So there is no discernable difference in that price range? That being said, would anything in that price range be considered an upgrade from the PS3?

There are two normal possibilities here. Either your Outlaw already does the LFE boost by default for its analog inputs, or you are playing some of those unusual audio discs which are recorded so as to *NOT* need the LFE boost -- which is the real reason receivers offer the feature to disable the boost.

That thread I linked you to in the prior post gives some details on that last bit.

One last possibility is that your player is one of the unusual ones that allows you to do the boost in the player before you send the analog LFE to the Outlaw, and you have turned that on.

As I recall there are some Chesky calibration discs for those formats that will allow you to measure your actual audio output with your trusty Radio Shack SPL meter and confirm that LFE is really being handled properly for those audio disc formats all the way through to your subwoofer.
--Bob

Thanks Bob for the additional input. I will certainly check out the suggested link.

Do some players have better sound quality than others?
I ask this question because I know standard DVD players can
sound better than others due to various DACs and processor chips.
If I am going to buy my first BR player and my main concern
is sound quality, what players should I be considering?

Is the new model Panasonic BD35 available anywhere yet?
I see its listed at Circuit City for a good price, but says "coming soon"
Is this new model equivalent/superior to the older BD30 in all respects?

Not yet. In fact, there's no announced date. The best guess is October or early November.

There's a dedicated thread for the BD35 and BD55 that may answer your questions. In general, the BD35 appears to be an improvement in most ways. But, there haven't been many reviews yet. Here's an early one.