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OFFICIAL "HELP ME CHOOSE A PLAYER" THREAD: Can't decide? Start HERE. - Page 11

post #301 of 16490
Quote:
Originally Posted by NCSNAKE View Post

OK I'm convinced it's the Panny BD30 now where do I find it?

Amazon.com?
post #302 of 16490
Like many, I am looking to make my first BD player purchase. Likewise, the Panny BD30 looks to be my first choice.

I will eventually be getting a processor that will decode all of the codecs so I am not concerned with in-player decoding. However, for the time being I'll be using the digitial coax audio output - can I get the legacy (lossy) codecs via coax from all BD discs?? Do all BD's have a legacy/core track or does the player convert on the fly to a legacy codec? Particularly, what would I get out via coax when playing a BD with only LPCM??

Thanks for any info!
post #303 of 16490
I'm new to the whole Blu Ray format and wanted to know what is the best highend Blu Ray player to buy for both picture and sound quality? I'm looking at getting one that can do everything such as 1080p/24, decoding lossless, sending out lossless content as well as being able to upconvert SD DVD's to near HD quality. I thought upconverting is where BD players didn't do as well as HD DVD players but not positive on this point. Maybe someone has compared them all.

What's the one to get??? Pioneer Elite?
post #304 of 16490
Well it looks like they moved my post here. I guess the Panasonic 30 is the one mostly being recommended along with the PS3. I have the XA2 which is considered about the best at upconverting. I don't know why the Blu Ray players can't upconvert as good and only get described on this thread as "adequate". After hearing the WB's went to BD only recently, I was thinking seriously about returning my XA2 even though I got it for $600......still a lot of money. I own the Toshiba HD-A3 as well that was a killer deal on Black Friday since I needed a DVD anyway. I was thinking about keeping the A3 to play HD and SD DVD's since I only own about 10 HD titles right now and using the money from returning the XA2 to buy a highend BD player but keep reading that the Panasonic 30 doesn't do as well as the XA2 with upconverting. I guess maybe I should just keep the XA2 and wait for the latest generation of BD players to hit. I'm the kind of person that will be annoyed if SD performance isn't towards the top end especially with the number of SD DVD's I own and rent through Net Flix.

Good Grief..........why does this have to be so freaking difficult. Fine...there has to be a format war that possibly could be over soon especially if Universal decides to go over to Blu Ray only. I just don't understand why the upper end BD players can't do SD as well as the XA2 or even the A3. You're talking about a chunk of change when looking at the upper end BD players. I'm surprised the Pioneer Elite isn't the absolute best since the Elite line usually is extremely good, usually around the best.
post #305 of 16490
I had been in the sidelines with the high def format for a while now. I must say the forums here at AVForum have been very helpful. Now that BD had "won" the format war, I decided to take the plunge. Went to a sonystyle B&M, had credit card application approved in a matter of minutes and took home the PS3 40G for 399+tax. I am anticipating the $100 credit which should decrease the total cost to 299+tax+ which I would say is the best price anyone can get a PS3 at present.

Also, not a gamer myself but decided on this because of the good deal, "future-proofness", and potentially good resale value. Considerring that soon to be released players with profile 1.2 (or 2.0) i would think will not retail below $400.

Oh, and this is my first post :-)
post #306 of 16490
Quote:
Originally Posted by robertrobert View Post

I'm looking at getting one that can do everything such as 1080p/24, decoding lossless, sending out lossless content as well as being able to upconvert SD DVD's to near HD quality.

Robert:

Currently there isn't a player on the market that supports everything you're requesting there.

The boldest request you listed is internal decoding of lossless content. Both Panasonic's DMP-BD30 and Pioneer's BDP-95FD bitstream those formats.

As far as upconversion goes, as you said, the BD30 seems to be "adequate" at best. I haven't heard much regarding 95FD's performance here.

I currently own Samsung's BD-UP5000 dual format player. While it has a laundry list of problems, it uses the HQV Reon processor to upconvert which I find to look truly amazing considering the source.

But all is not lost.

Panasonic debuted the DMP-BD50 at CES this year which proudly boast internal decoding of all the latest audio formats as well as being Bluray 2.0 compliant. More information about that here. As far as it's upconverting capabilities, that has yet to be seen.

Hope this was helpful.

Mia
post #307 of 16490
Quote:
Originally Posted by wyliec2 View Post

Like many, I am looking to make my first BD player purchase. Likewise, the Panny BD30 looks to be my first choice.

I will eventually be getting a processor that will decode all of the codecs so I am not concerned with in-player decoding. However, for the time being I'll be using the digitial coax audio output - can I get the legacy (lossy) codecs via coax from all BD discs?? Do all BD's have a legacy/core track or does the player convert on the fly to a legacy codec? Particularly, what would I get out via coax when playing a BD with only LPCM??

Thanks for any info!

OK, I'm talking to myself here...

Anyway....bad news/good news. After downloading the manual, it appears that a disc that has only multi-channel PCM tracks will get downmixed to 2 channel PCM when output over non-HDMI digital output (ie. SPDIF or coax). This would be a no-go except that it looks like most movies have at least a lossy encode in addition to the PCM which is all I can get anyway.

There is an Elton John 60 BD that does appear to only have PCM multi-channel and PCM 2-channel encodes so that rules out any surround output from that disc if I were to get it.

That said, I went ahead and ordered the BD30!
post #308 of 16490
Quote:
Originally Posted by robertrobert View Post

I don't know why the Blu Ray players can't upconvert as good and only get described on this thread as "adequate".

Upconverting is VERY important to me and for a short while I had both, a Samsung BD-P1200 (which has the REON chip like your XA2) and a PS3. I did the comparison with some of my favorite SD DVDs (Baraka, Fosse, Moulin Rouge), but not with test DVDs and I would give the Samsung a slight edge. But I cannot describe the difference in words and it might have existed only in my imagination. I could not do a side to side comparison, I just looked at the same scenes switching between the players. The PS3 was excellent, not just adequate. I returned the Samsung and kept the PS3.

Some other concerns I had about the PS3 were the remote and the noise:

I actually like the PS3 game console as a remote. I have a Harmony, but without glasses in a room with no ambient light it is sometimes hard to use. The PS3 game console I can operate without even looking at it.

With my RS1 projector humming over my head the PS3 - which is on the floor right next to where I sit - is inaudible.
post #309 of 16490
Quote:
Originally Posted by nagyg View Post

Upconverting is VERY important to me and for a short while I had both, a Samsung BD-P1200 (which has the REON chip like your XA2) and a PS3. I did the comparison with some of my favorite SD DVDs (Baraka, Fosse, Moulin Rouge), but not with test DVDs and I would give the Samsung a slight edge. But I cannot describe the difference in words and it might have existed only in my imagination. I could not do a side to side comparison, I just looked at the same scenes switching between the players. The PS3 was excellent, not just adequate. I returned the Samsung and kept the PS3.

Some other concerns I had about the PS3 were the remote and the noise:

I actually like the PS3 game console as a remote. I have a Harmony, but without glasses in a room with no ambient light it is sometimes hard to use. The PS3 game console I can operate without even looking at it.

With my RS1 projector humming over my head the PS3 - which is on the floor right next to where I sit - is inaudible.


You mention comparing two Blu-Ray players but not with the XA2 besides referring to the chip. The XA2 was reviewed by Secrets of Home Theater as being so good that someone could easily pay several thousand dollars more for a separate upconverting unit. It just seems that BD players do HD great but only average or slightly above average for upconverting. Some just want the absolute best at doing both. It will be a very long time before HD in stores and rental chains (in store and on-line) will be stocked more than SD. For the amount of money that BD players are charging, they should be producing a stellar picture in both SD and HD content to really get the average Joe to buy one versus just an upconverting DVD. Everyone on this forum doesn't have to be convinced but the average consumer is another story. For example, I know someone at work that just bought a 1080p HDTV and an upconverting DVD player in place of a HD player because he only lives close to Blockbuster that only rents Blu-Ray and he has no intention of doing Net Flix or stopping at Hollywood Video that is out of his way.

The bottom line is that I'll be keeping my XA2 which has been reviewed multiple times as being about the best at both HD and SD DVD's. I'll get a Blu-Ray player maybe at the end of the year once the future formats are figured out a little more. Now they are talking about Blu-Ray 2.0 and whatever the "live" format offers to confuse folks even more.
post #310 of 16490
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mia_Garcia View Post

Robert:

Currently there isn't a player on the market that supports everything you're requesting there.

The boldest request you listed is internal decoding of lossless content. Both Panasonic's DMP-BD30 and Pioneer's BDP-95FD bitstream those formats.

As far as upconversion goes, as you said, the BD30 seems to be "adequate" at best. I haven't heard much regarding 95FD's performance here.

I currently own Samsung's BD-UP5000 dual format player. While it has a laundry list of problems, it uses the HQV Reon processor to upconvert which I find to look truly amazing considering the source.

But all is not lost.

Panasonic debuted the DMP-BD50 at CES this year which proudly boast internal decoding of all the latest audio formats as well as being Bluray 2.0 compliant. More information about that here. As far as it's upconverting capabilities, that has yet to be seen.

Hope this was helpful.

Mia



Hello Mia,

Yeah, I guess I'll need to wait and see how the new Blu-Ray players work out such as the ones from Panasonic while keeping my XA2 which has been discontinued and will, I believe, be recognized as a reference SD and HD DVD player even if HD DVD dies. As far as the Pioneer model you mention, even though some here on this link say it is pretty good at upconverting SD DVD's, the Secrets of Home Theater reviewed it saying the opposite. Even though very good with Blu-Ray, they felt it should have performed much better on SD DVD's especially for the amount of money. I don't always put faith in reviews but Secrets of Home Theater has always been one that I have respected a great deal since they do a lot of signal testing besides using their eyes which can simply miss a lot. I agree that passing or failing a video test may not always show up on the movie but at least you know if definitely won't if it does pass every test. The XA2 was the only HD player they could recommend for PQ and SQ along with the boot up speeds, etc. finally being acceptable for the average consumer to keep without dragging it back to the store.
post #311 of 16490
Hi Robert,

I agree that there is no all-in-one player that will be perfect for PQ, AQ, Upconversion, and BD-Live/Profile 2.0, but depending on what your priorities are there are players out there.

The Panny BD30 is probably the best bang for the buck for those requiring lossless audio.

The PS3 offers the best chance for a BD-Live upgrade.

So far I haven't heard that too many comments about the upconversion being all that poor and having watched plenty of dvd's on my ps3, I'm not sure that the detail from upconversion is all that dramatic from what I've seen on my friends XA2. If upconversion is a huge deal, I would recommend getting a Lumagen HDQ video processor which will help all your players instead of just the XA2 and help future proof all your DVD upconversions.

Here's another list that may be helpful to compare features in one chart: http://www.idoblu.co.uk/page2%20Blu-ray%20Players.html

I also looked up for a review of the Panny BD30 on the Secrets of Home Theater site, but I couldn't find a review, would you be able to provide a link about the review?

-Splints
post #312 of 16490
Quote:
Originally Posted by splinters View Post

Hi Robert,

I agree that there is no all-in-one player that will be perfect for PQ, AQ, Upconversion, and BD-Live/Profile 2.0, but depending on what your priorities are there are players out there.

The Panny BD30 is probably the best bang for the buck for those requiring lossless audio.

The PS3 offers the best chance for a BD-Live upgrade.

So far I haven't heard that too many comments about the upconversion being all that poor and having watched plenty of dvd's on my ps3, I'm not sure that the detail from upconversion is all that dramatic from what I've seen on my friends XA2. If upconversion is a huge deal, I would recommend getting a Lumagen HDQ video processor which will help all your players instead of just the XA2 and help future proof all your DVD upconversions.

Here's another list that may be helpful to compare features in one chart: http://www.idoblu.co.uk/page2%20Blu-ray%20Players.html

I also looked up for a review of the Panny BD30 on the Secrets of Home Theater site, but I couldn't find a review, would you be able to provide a link about the review?

-Splints



Here's the link for the latest Pioneer Elite 95FD Blu-Ray Review. If you click on the review archive on the same page, you'll be able to look up reviews on all DVD players. They did one on the Panasonic BD10. They actually listed it as a benchmark BD player with SD performance in a different league as the Samsung player but not quite as good as Panasonic stand alone upconverting DVD players.

I know I'm asking for a lot but figure folks should for the kind of money they are asking for the highend BD players. The XA2 retailed for around $1,200 I believe when first introduced but I waited until Fry's dropped it to $600 from $800. I heard Marantz along with another name (can't remember) coming out with one over $2K......wow, that's a lot of cash for a DVD player. I'm not one that is afraid to spend cash on electronics but I never pay full retail and it has to be around the absolute best.

Robert


http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/cd-dv...d-dvd-players/
post #313 of 16490
I'm about ready to purchase the Panasonic BD30 player but understand from some of the forum comments that its upscaling capabilities are just ok. Currently I have my Yamaha RXV1800 AVR hooked up to an old sony dvd player (10+ yrs) and the upscaling features of the AVR are really good. My question is, can I still use the AVR's upscaling features with the Panasonic BD30, or will its own upscaling features take precedence when connected to my AVR via hdmi?

Any suggestions/comments are appreciated!
post #314 of 16490
I have the Onkyo 905, with the Reon chip in it, would that give me the equivalant quality of upconverting as the XA2 with the Reon that everyone raves about? I'm trying to go format neutral here as well and the Bd30 looks like an attractive choice except for the complaints about upconversion of SD material.
post #315 of 16490
Quote:
Originally Posted by wyliec2 View Post

That said, I went ahead and ordered the BD30!

....and upon further reading about the apprent PCM LFE issue have cancelled my order....
post #316 of 16490
Quote:
Originally Posted by wyliec2 View Post

....and upon further reading about the apprent PCM LFE issue have cancelled my order....

Any other options for you?
post #317 of 16490
So going by this thread there isn't a single acceptable stand-alone Blu-ray player on the market? I am returning my Samsung BD-UP5000 and am now in the market for single format *stand alone* player. To be honest I am pretty shocked that the winning format is still so freakin' buggy.

I just want excellent video playback of BD discs and decent, stable audio. What would you suggest?
post #318 of 16490
Quote:
Originally Posted by pantherquest View Post

To be honest I am pretty shocked that the winning format is still so freakin' buggy.

line forms to the left
post #319 of 16490
Quote:
Originally Posted by Donnie Eldridge View Post

Any other options for you?

Watch to see if Panasonic can fix the PCM LFE issue with a firmware update.

See what Denon and Marantz are coming out with...higher prices though...
post #320 of 16490
Quote:
Originally Posted by pantherquest View Post

To be honest I am pretty shocked that the winning format is still so freakin' buggy.

I just want excellent video playback of BD discs and decent, stable audio.

Hmmmm...just as difficult to pick the right HD player as the right presidential candidate...
post #321 of 16490
Like most of us, the BD player I really want is the Panasonic BD50. Since that won't be out for a while, I'm looking for a way to just get into the format for now. A local store has open-box deals on both the Samsung BD1000 and the Panasonic BD-10. There is only a $50 price difference between them, and either player can be had for under $250. Which one would you choose? One key thing that concerns me is how well the latest firmware updates for each player bring it up to speed with the latest disk versions/profiles.

The idea here is to buy a "low-cost" player that I can use today, then relegate to non-home theater use when the BD50 is available.
post #322 of 16490
Quote:
Originally Posted by rmbracalente View Post

Like most of us, the BD player I really want is the Panasonic BD50. Since that won't be out for a while, I'm looking for a way to just get into the format for now. A local store has open-box deals on both the Samsung BD1000 and the Panasonic BD-10. There is only a $50 price difference between them, and either player can be had for under $250. Which one would you choose? One key thing that concerns me is how well the latest firmware updates for each player bring it up to speed with the latest disk versions/profiles.

The idea here is to buy a "low-cost" player that I can use today, then relegate to non-home theater use when the BD50 is available.

Get the BD10.
post #323 of 16490
Quote:
Originally Posted by robertrobert View Post

Here's the link for the latest Pioneer Elite 95FD Blu-Ray Review. If you click on the review archive on the same page, you'll be able to look up reviews on all DVD players. They did one on the Panasonic BD10. They actually listed it as a benchmark BD player with SD performance in a different league as the Samsung player but not quite as good as Panasonic stand alone upconverting DVD players.

I know I'm asking for a lot but figure folks should for the kind of money they are asking for the highend BD players. The XA2 retailed for around $1,200 I believe when first introduced but I waited until Fry's dropped it to $600 from $800. I heard Marantz along with another name (can't remember) coming out with one over $2K......wow, that's a lot of cash for a DVD player. I'm not one that is afraid to spend cash on electronics but I never pay full retail and it has to be around the absolute best.

Robert


http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/cd-dv...d-dvd-players/

Hi Robert,

I would recommend not associating the BD10 to the BD30 or BD50 since they use different video processors. Check the link I sent earlier on the players and you will see the different video chips for the BD10 vs. the BD30 or BD50: http://www.idoblu.co.uk/page2%20Blu-ray%20Players.html

I would say for those who are looking for the perfect standalone player, wait 6 months and see where we are at, otherwise it probably isn't worth the cost or frustration if these features are required.

-Splints
post #324 of 16490
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mia_Garcia View Post

As far as it's upconverting capabilities, that has yet to be seen.

The BD50's upconverting capabilities are expected to be identical to the BD30s. They use the same video chipset.
post #325 of 16490
Quote:
Originally Posted by splinters View Post

Hi Robert,

I would recommend not associating the BD10 to the BD30 or BD50 since they use different video processors. Check the link I sent earlier on the players and you will see the different video chips for the BD10 vs. the BD30 or BD50: http://www.idoblu.co.uk/page2%20Blu-ray%20Players.html

I would say for those who are looking for the perfect standalone player, wait 6 months and see where we are at, otherwise it probably isn't worth the cost or frustration if these features are required.

-Splints

Yes, I potentially made one mistake jumping on the $98 A2. I should have the restraint to wait. I'm sure Panasonic and Sony hope I don't.
post #326 of 16490
Quote:
Originally Posted by robertrobert View Post

Hello Mia,

Yeah, I guess I'll need to wait and see how the new Blu-Ray players work out such as the ones from Panasonic while keeping my XA2 which has been discontinued and will, I believe, be recognized as a reference SD and HD DVD player even if HD DVD dies. As far as the Pioneer model you mention, even though some here on this link say it is pretty good at upconverting SD DVD's, the Secrets of Home Theater reviewed it saying the opposite. Even though very good with Blu-Ray, they felt it should have performed much better on SD DVD's especially for the amount of money. I don't always put faith in reviews but Secrets of Home Theater has always been one that I have respected a great deal since they do a lot of signal testing besides using their eyes which can simply miss a lot. I agree that passing or failing a video test may not always show up on the movie but at least you know if definitely won't if it does pass every test. The XA2 was the only HD player they could recommend for PQ and SQ along with the boot up speeds, etc. finally being acceptable for the average consumer to keep without dragging it back to the store.

The Samsung BDP-1200 has the same Reon chip as the XA2 and SD-DVD performance is very similar. I compared a BDP-1200 with a PS3 playing SD DVDs and the BDP-1200 was perhaps slightly better so I bought the PS3.

BTW The "Secrets of Home Theater" review of the PS3 is no longer relevant because they have not updated it to reflect the current firmware.
post #327 of 16490
Quote:
Originally Posted by ADGrant View Post

The Samsung BDP-1200 has the same Reon chip as the XA2 and SD-DVD performance is very similar. I compared a BDP-1200 with a PS3 playing SD DVDs and the BDP-1200 was perhaps slightly better so I bought the PS3.

I came to exactely the same conclusion ....
post #328 of 16490
I've been out of the loop, but I really want a Blu-Ray player. I'm partial to Denon, and like the looks of the 3800, but trying to keep my budget under 2k. I want a serious rack component that will hold me for five years or more, and not toys like the playstation.

Looks like I might want to wait a while on the Denon until the major reviews come out.
post #329 of 16490
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnFR View Post

I've been out of the loop, but I really want a Blu-Ray player. I'm partial to Denon, and like the looks of the 3800, but trying to keep my budget under 2k. I want a serious rack component that will hold me for five years or more, and not toys like the playstation.

Looks like I might want to wait a while on the Denon until the major reviews come out.

The 3800/2500 from Denon are Profile 1.1. Keep this in mind.
post #330 of 16490
Quote:
Originally Posted by Donnie Eldridge View Post

The 3800/2500 from Denon are Profile 1.1. Keep this in mind.

All BD players released since November 1, 2007 are required to be profile 1.1 according to the Blu-ray mandate.
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