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Fluid change on Philips TV... anyone wanna help? :) - Page 3

post #61 of 93
Many thanks. Reads like that might work. I'll see if a pair of tweezers will compress the retaining clips on both sides. The guts shot of your set shows the HV transformer in the same location as mine: that grayish device in the lower right with the thick leads. On mine, and I suspect yours, a wire output of this transformer goes to another small "tripler box" that has one HV wire to each CRT. Need to remove two HV wires from the tripler so the blue and green CRT/lens assemblies can be pulled free.

BTW, was really stunned by the amount of clouding in my blue-CRT coolant. Yet most lighter images still look fairly good. But they also have a hazy look, like the contrast is too high. I listed a bunch of image faults recently in Mr. Bob's don't-scrap-your-CRT-RPTV thread. My green coolant isn't as bad, and the image peering into the red lens are very clear and actually show long-missing crisp scan lines (dicussed back in post #51). So, with fresh coolant it looks like I'll see scan lines again (within inches of the screen) as well as restoring some of the degraded horizontal resolution that's grown worse recently. -- John

P.S.: Did you do the whole denatured alcohol/distilled water thing to clean the chambers/lenses/CRTs, or just plain water, then dry? All three tubes?
post #62 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by DanRC30 View Post

Ok, I think I remember now... those wires went into some plastic round retainer clip things. If I remember correctly, you need to grab them as close to the clip as possible and kinda pull up on the wire and push against the clip at the same time with a pinching action. They should pop out, but it's not easy. Just keep applying steady and increasing pressure. Don't yank. Just keep pulling till it comes out. Your fingernails should be putting pressure on the retaining clip while you pull on the wire.

Found I had to slip a screw driver between the white plastic tube and black retainer encircling the red HV wire. Twisting the screw driver several times slowly worked the wire retainer (and wire) from the white cylinder. Removal was gradual and don't see how it stressed the connection any more than steady continuous pulling.

Looking closer at a similar connection on the HV transformer itself, I noticed there's no metal clips. The small slots in the white cylinder tube just show the black retainer enclosing the red HV wires. You can see how the mysterious special tool some mention could compress the plastic retainer through the slots and aid wire removal.

But the two wires I removed (one in front hindering removal of the other) now just show a red lead with a short bare wire. (Looks like the wires in the page 2 photo here ,about 1/3 down). This differs from the shot on page 1 of that thread, where there's a metallic cylinder attached to the end of the red HV wire.

So, don't know; when I finally reinsert the wires in the white cylinders--as (successfully) described by the guy who shot the photo in the page 2 link above--and the blue (and green) CRTs don't work, that'll say I broke something. Someone else on page 2 of the link (about 1/3 down) just above describes having to hacksaw the white cylinder and resolder (or just solder) something. -- John
post #63 of 93
What you see is what you should see. The bare wire fits into a similar sized hole in the transformer and the clip just makes a tight fit so the wire will not come out. THe tricky part is to get the clip in the right place to leave the wire solidly in the bottom. Just look at the anode wire and place the clip at the indent that it made in the insulation and make sure that the wire is not bent. Snap it back in and you should have no problem.
post #64 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by lcaillo View Post

What you see is what you should see. The bare wire fits into a similar sized hole in the transformer and the clip just makes a tight fit so the wire will not come out. THe tricky part is to get the clip in the right place to leave the wire solidly in the bottom. Just look at the anode wire and place the clip at the indent that it made in the insulation and make sure that the wire is not bent. Snap it back in and you should have no problem.

Thanks! That's reassuring. Appreciate your expertise from fixing many of these and taking the time to answer here. -- John
post #65 of 93
Well after weeks of researching and ordering materials, I decided to tackle my sons 60pp9363h/17 Phillips with a terrible blue hue in the picture. I was sure the Blue coolant was bad after looking into the lens assembly and the green also looked a little cloudy. The red was clear except for a few tiny bubbles. I was afraid to remove the tubes individually so I removed the entire rack that holds all three tubes. I drained the blue tube and it was a brownish orange and the lens needed major cleaning. It went back together without a hitch. I also did the green tube, not as bad as the blue, but still needed to be done. I left the red alone. After reinstalling everything and turning the set back on all that needed to be done was to adjust the convergence main and multipoint. My son bought this TV used after graduating from College and getting his first job and place to live. He didn't notice how bad the picture was until we completed the repair. Now that the picture is so good you can tell the text on the TV is a little burry. I was wondering if anybody can suggest a procedure on how to make focus adjustments to the tubes.
post #66 of 93
^^^Only partway through exchanging the blue coolant here. Should have acquired the odd-ball inverted-type torx socket needed to remove the main lens assembly from the coolant chamber. Moderately yellow blue coolant here. Cleaned the blue CRT face with vinegar-based Windex, but now have to chase down denatured alcohol and distilled water to clean the chamber, fisheye lens, grommets, etc. and avoid regrowth of contaminants. Guess I'll take the green apart, too, while rounding up the liquids mentioned and leave the red (not clouded) for a screen-grid reference.

This site has many of the focusing, etc. tips similar/identical to those in my CDROM service disc (model 64PH9905). The service menu procedure for full-screen convergence is under convergence/geometry. This procedure can erase your current settings, which importently should be jotted down first, if the wrong procedure is followed. Suspect exact-model manuals/discs are available online (or other manual sites).

The site's (1st link above) CRT replacement section outlines fluid change and what they call "required" adjustments as well. [Reads like you've already done user and service (multipoint?) convergence, though, although there's a limited +-points user multipoint adjustment besides the full-screen service convergence with many more + marks.] The RGB focus pots handle electrical focus (don't touch the adjacent RGB screen potentiometers, they'll screwup grayscale), and loosening the lens wingnuts is for mechanical focus. The OP's 'guts shot' linked above shows the focus block with the six closely clustered RGB focus/screen pots. Mr. Bob's home page (see don't-dump-your-CRT-RPTV thread) reportedly has a section on so-called cantilever focusing. -- John

EDIT: Icaillo (see just above), in Mr. Bob's thread I mentioned just above, recently wrote doing things like keeping the red coolant and using a slightly different type for the blue/green CRTs may alter the focus/sizes slightly; different refractive indexes I guess. His coolant-change outline here may mention this too.
post #67 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Mason View Post

Mr. Bob's home page (see don't-dump-your-CRT-RPTV thread) reportedly has a section on so-called cantilever focusing. -- John

Actually no, my home page www.imageperfection.com does not have any section on the CT, tho it exists out there somewhere I am sure, as I have written about it many times over the years. Doesn't have the before and after shots of the optics cleaning process either, have spent so much time here on these threads that I have not doctored my website as much as I should...

But do visit the Don't Dump... thread. It's been going on for more than 2 years now, we celebrated our 150th page recently...

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...95922&page=158

Thanks John. Hope to be seeing you soon -


b
post #68 of 93
My year-2000 Philips 64PH9905 apparently has 9" CRTs differing in the coolant expansion chamber outlined for, presumably, 7"-CRT RPTVs at this tips site (under picture tube replacement, about 7/8 down).

Just refilled my green-CRT coolant chamber, but can't figure the following extract from the site above; maybe because I didn't remove the front-lens assembly from the coolant chamber, so can't really see the fill hole through all the lenses:
Quote:


Note: Prior to replacing the PTV coupling fluid, ensure the expansion chamber bladder (O) is fully collapsed [diagram? missing]. This can easily be inspected by viewing the bladder through the small hole on the expansion chamber assembly. If the rubber of the bladder is not easily visible through the small hole, then the bladder may be considered collapsed and fluid can be added. If the rubber of the expansion chamber bladder is visible at the hole of the expansion chamber, then replacement of the expansion chamber bladder is required.

.
My CRTs have a little cup-like overflow cylinder, with a hole in the bottom for filling/emptying, offset but part of the main rectangular coolant chamber. Seem to recall a week ago before draining the chamber that the rubber cup-like bladder fit into plastic offset section--like a smaller cup slipped into a larger cup. [EDIT: Might be I'm just mis-remembering this and the cup-like rubber bladder actually was inside the a plastic hold-down cap.] This plastic cap, with a small hole in its top, covers the rubber bladder within the offset overflow section. This plastic cap doesn't screw on but has a bolted-on metal clip holding it in place.

So, how does this work? Temporarily, before reinstallation, I've put the rubber cup-like bladder into the offset section, so the bottom of the bladder covers the drain hole. But seems to me if there's an overflow, or even if the CRT is tipped on its side. coolant from the main chamber can flow out the drain hole, around the bladder, and out through the hole in the plastic covering cap.

But if I install the rubber bladder the other way, so the expansion chamber is effectively sealed off even before clip-bolting the plastic cap into place, any leakage shouldn't be possible. Should I just reverse the rubber bladder so it projects into the plastic cap--like putting two cups opening-to-opening? Thanks for any advice. Sorry, no digital camera for a shot. -- John
post #69 of 93
I don't understand the problem. The bladder only goes in one way and it seems obvious to me. What do you mean by "didn't remove the front-lens assembly from the coolant chamber, so can't really see the fill hole through all the lenses?" How can you clean the chamber without removing the lens and did you remove the tube from the set? IMO, not removing the lens is a BIG mistake. You have to clean it thoroughly, and there is no way to do so without removing the lens.
post #70 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by lcaillo View Post

I don't understand the problem. The bladder only goes in one way and it seems obvious to me.

Thanks for the reply. You might have missed my edited addition, where I mentioned I might be mis-remembereing and that when the plastic cap was unclipped the rubber cup-like bladder was fit inside the cap, not the expansion chamber. Is the obvious part that re-assembled the wrong way the coolant can leak out? Having disassembled these only once, about a week back, mis-remembering the bladder fitting into the cap when it was removed, or inside the expansion chamber, is the key point--and likely a duh.
Quote:
What do you mean by "didn't remove the front-lens assembly from the coolant chamber, so can't really see the fill hole through all the lenses?" How can you clean the chamber without removing the lens and did you remove the tube from the set? IMO, not removing the lens is a BIG mistake. You have to clean it thoroughly, and there is no way to do so without removing the lens.

Well, I may be revisting the job in XX months , but I kept the front lens assembly attached to the fluid chamber throughout. CRTs (2) were out of the set. Cleaned the chamber and fisheye lens, with its rubber seal separating it from the other lenses with soap/water, per your outline in the other forum, then the fisheye with vinegar-based Windex). Figured the contamination stopped at the fisheye lens rubber seal. -- John
post #71 of 93
I am sorry but I am having a hard time following you. What "rubber seal separating it from the other lenses?" Did you have the colant chamber open to be able to access it through the large opening for the lens? Did you not remove the main lens assy from the "fisheye" lens?

As for the bladder, it has to go in so that it does not leak.
post #72 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by lcaillo View Post

I am sorry but I am having a hard time following you. What "rubber seal separating it from the other lenses?" Did you have the colant chamber open to be able to access it through the large opening for the lens? Did you not remove the main lens assy from the "fisheye" lens?

With this 9"-gun Philips, when 8 spring-loaded bolts are loosened to lift off the CRT, the metal fluid chamber with all the other lenses still attached are available. The fisheye is a the bottom of the chamber with a rubber seal separating it--and the fluid-filled chamber--from the other lenses. Never removed the fisheye and other lenses, assuming the seal, if it could handle hot coolant, could handle soap/water.

Quote:
As for the bladder, it has to go in so that it does not leak.

So, to put it another way, I should put the rubber bladder into the plastic cap, not put the bladder into a expansion chamber, before clipping/bolting the cap down? The bladder looks like a tiny brimmed bowler hat. Both are easily possible and appear logical, although as I outlined earlier it seems the latter could leak. Sorry, might seem like a duh, but looks like it could get messy done the wrong way.
post #73 of 93
I see. You did it the hard way, IMO. I usually remove the first lens from the main lens assy and soak it to loosen the crust from the contaminants. The main lens assy is not sealed and you need to clean the front of the "fisheye" and the back of the first lens on the main lens assy. When you remove it the way that you did you also risk damaging the rear gasket and it is harder to get a good seal on. I just remove the front and keep the spring loaded seal intact. Also, if you do not remove the main lens assy, you risk getting coolant or cleaner in it and it is not sealed.

The bladder fits over the rim of the expansion chamber and only goes one way. I just do not understand how you could put it in wrong. If it leaks it is wrong.
post #74 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by lcaillo View Post

I see. You did it the hard way, IMO. I usually remove the first lens from the main lens assy and soak it to loosen the crust from the contaminants. The main lens assy is not sealed and you need to clean the front of the "fisheye" and the back of the first lens on the main lens assy. When you remove it the way that you did you also risk damaging the rear gasket and it is harder to get a good seal on. I just remove the front and keep the spring loaded seal intact. Also, if you do not remove the main lens assy, you risk getting coolant or cleaner in it and it is not sealed.

Yes, I may have gotten off track by using the all-in-one instruction I linked above, apparently originally from Philips, that outlines CRT replacement as well as replacing contaminated fluid. Sure agree about the CRT gasket; concerned about whether the sealant etc. was applied correctly. Assumed coolant only touched the inside surface of the fisheye and the seal wasn't leaking.

Quote:
The bladder fits over the rim of the expansion chamber and only goes one way. I just do not understand how you could put it in wrong. If it leaks it is wrong.

Okay, as I mentioned, the bladder looks like a tiny flat-topped bowler hat with a rim. You can drop the bladder, top down, into the expansion chamber, It fits nicely and looks fine. Then the plastic cap, with a hole on its top, could be clipped/bolted down sealing the bladder rim.

Or,,,you could put the bladder into the plastic cap, top up, and clip/bolt the plastic cap/bladder together to the expansion chamber. In the first case, the bladder is pressing against the fill hole. In the second case, the empty bladder is inside the plastic cap, like one hat atop another, and the expansion chamber is completely empty--although tipping the CRT slightly would allow fluid to slosh into the empty expansion chamber, although it would be trapped by the bladder. It's that excerpt quote I showed above from the Philips tips, about having to replace the bladder under certain conditions, and seeing/not-seeing it through the fill hole that's complicating things in part. -- John
post #75 of 93
The fill hole has nothing to do with the bladder and expansion chamber. It is on the other side of the coolant chamber. The bladder goes in so that the curved rim fits over the edge of the expansion chamber and so that the bladder can expand away from the coolant chamber. The bulletin you refer to probably refers to the hole in the top of the cap that lets air out as the bladder expands. Think about it...if the bladder is popped out under the cap, or if it is reversed, there is little room for expansion.
post #76 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by lcaillo View Post

The fill hole has nothing to do with the bladder and expansion chamber. It is on the other side of the coolant chamber. The bladder goes in so that the curved rim fits over the edge of the expansion chamber and so that the bladder can expand away from the coolant chamber.

Must be a different design, then. Here, the fluid-chamber fill hole is at the bottom (and side) of the expansion chamber. There are no other holes in the coolant chamber--aside from the large opening when I lifted off both CRTs (blue/green). The bladder, when installed, covers the fill hole. The rim of the bladder covers the top edge of the expansion chamber. Then a plastic cap with a small hole presses this rubber bladder rim down with a bolted clip, sealing off the bladder. (Earlier above I mistakingly wrote that expanding fluid could leak out this cap hole.)
Quote:


The bulletin you refer to probably refers to the hole in the top of the cap that lets air out as the bladder expands. Think about it...if the bladder is popped out under the cap, or if it is reversed, there is little room for expansion.

Yes, read the extract again (above) and they must be describing the hole atop the expansion-chamber cap. Seems to me, though, if the bladder had previously expanded so it was visible through the air-escape hole, the expansion chamber would be completely empty, able to accept overflow coolant from the bottom fill/drain hole. Not clear, if this were the case, why those Philips'? instructions call for the "replacement of the expansion chamber bladder." Thanks again for all your comments. -- John
post #77 of 93
Not a different design, we are just on different planets.

Regardless, there is one way to put the bladder in. Do it that way and there is plenty of room for expansion and it will not leak.
post #78 of 93
It's nice to see this thread is still active.I have a 7P6031 C101 that's 12 years old.I just got a new television for the living room and moved this one to the den.It worked just fine before I moved it.I did have to tilt it and move it down 2 steps,but I was gentle with it.I wasn't aware these things had coolant in them until I started reading online.I never saw any signs of spillage inside or outside,so I think I'm okay on that.Once I had it back up and running I decided to readjust the color,tint,etc.The picture isn't very good now.It has a reddish yellow tint to it.I've tried all the onscreen adjustments to no avail.Once I started learning about the stuff growing inside the lenses,I opened the tv and took a look inside them.I'm pretty sure that's what has happened.But does it seem possible that this would develop this fast?The tv was only off for a day or two if that much.The viewing distance is about half as much now as before,so maybe that's why I didn't notice it before.It appears that there is some growth inside the green lense but not that much.The blue is another matter altogether.The photo looks like a picture of the moon,it's so nasty.Also,when trying to adjust the convergence,the red shows up,but not the blue.No line and no blue wording.Anyway,I'd appreciate it if you guys could check the photos and tell me if you think it's fluid changing time.And sorry if some photos are poor quality.A photographer I am clearly not.Thanks.
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post #79 of 93
The red is your only clear gun, which is typical. Both your green and blue have huge amounts of contaminants in them, definitely needing the changeout of the coolant. That "shot of the moon" was really well taken, for a non-photo bug!



Good thing you found this thread -


b
post #80 of 93
Thanks for the reply.Yeah,the blue lense was pretty easy to see.The green lense is actually worse than the picture would indicate,but not in the same league as that awful blue one.I guess when I moved the tv I must have stirred up the goop growing in there.Now that I have confirmation on it,I'll order the replacement fluid online,then come back and read the instructions I bookmarked.I'll post some pics after I'm done.Thanks again.I don't know what I would have done if not for this forum.Probably hired someone to charge an arm,leg,and anything else I have two of to fix it.
post #81 of 93
Wouldn't surprise me!




b
post #82 of 93
Well,I got my fluid delivered last week,but I'm only now ready to do the changeout.I've seen some reference to using a marker on the tubes.Perhaps you guys could tell me where exactly on them I need to mark.I know it has to do with the rings that affect convergence.I want to make sure I have the existing positions marked before I move anything.
post #83 of 93
I got the fluid changed last night.Pretty nasty stuff.I then reassembled the tv and placed paper towels inside,letting it sit overnight to check for leaks.No leaks this morning,so I hooked my gear up to the tv and tested it.I decided to do the first time setup again to use as a baseline comparison.Did the convergence through the menu and adjusted color,brightness,etc.Oh yeah!That's more like it.Looks really good for a non-HD tv that only has a composite connection.It really wasn't as hard as I thought it would be.Trust me,if I can do it,anyone else needing to do it can.Just make sure you pick up that e6 torx socket,you'll need it.I'll do periodic checks for leaks,but I don't anticipate seeing any.My thanks to those who contributed to this thread.You saved me alot of money.

P.S.:If you decide to do this,do yourself a favor and remove the tubes from the tv to change the fluid.Don't even think about leaving them in and changing it.I can't even imagine having tried it with the tubes still inside.
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post #84 of 93
Jeez, that first picture looks REALLY nasty! Yuk!

Philips should be paying YOU...



Good move, placing paper towels below the CRTs for signs of any leakage after the job...


b
post #85 of 93
Yeah,that was from the blue tube.Pretty raunchy stuff.The green wasn't nearly as bad,but it needed changing as well.Red,as expected,was fine.I used about 1 1/2 bottles between the two.I have enough to do another change if the need ever arises,perish the thought.I could probably do it in about half the time if I had to again.I'm really pleased with the results.Now,back to the living room to watch my Mits 73".
post #86 of 93
I received my kit for changing the fluid in my tv but what I wat to know is how long do I need to keep my tv unplugged before I start to change the fluid. Someone told me that I need to unplug it for 3 days before I do it. any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

P. S I don't want to get shocked while I'm doing this
post #87 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by sl168 View Post

Yeah,that was from the blue tube.Pretty raunchy stuff.The green wasn't nearly as bad,but it needed changing as well.Red,as expected,was fine.I used about 1 1/2 bottles between the two.I have enough to do another change if the need ever arises,perish the thought.I could probably do it in about half the time if I had to again.I'm really pleased with the results.Now,back to the living room to watch my Mits 73".

Don't keep that fluid for too long. Remember, it degrades over time...


b
post #88 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by strait8 View Post

I received my kit for changing the fluid in my tv but what I wat to know is how long do I need to keep my tv unplugged before I start to change the fluid. Someone told me that I need to unplug it for 3 days before I do it. any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

P. S I don't want to get shocked while I'm doing this

A few hours should do it, or overnight. You should not be touching anything in there even remotely close to the HV anode wires, which are shielded themselves very tightly.

Just don't touch the undersides of any of the circuit boards and you should be OK.


b
post #89 of 93
just finished installing new fluid in tv and i cant believe how much better it looks and it was easy thank you for helping
post #90 of 93


Now if your regular optics need cleaning - mirror and lens tops - get that done to complete the optics cleaning process.

Just be VERY careful - most lenses at these price ranges are made of plastic, are very easily scratched, and any damage done to them is instantly permanent.

The mirror is a front surface mirror, meaning you are not cleaning glass in there.

Special practices have to be observed when cleaning ANY CRT RPTV's optics.


b
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