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Has anyone had any personal experiance with Onsia Speakers? - Page 2

post #31 of 104
Kal, that's funny!
post #32 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by Veda View Post

You may want to listen to those Bose again. Are you sure they are THAT bad?

My comment was aimed at the fact that when I went to the store to see these, and to listen to them, no matter where I stood, I could hear complete stereo seperation. Very distinct sounds coming from both speakers. I brought one of my cd's so that they couldn't use something they had, which would make them sound better than they were. I checked consumer reports on them as well as read hundreds of OWNER reviews before going to Bose to check them out. Perhaps you may remember the first time you hear a Beatles song in STEREO.

That's how it felt to listen to the 701's in the store. After installing them in our place {apartment} I thought perhaps it was because of the size of the room they were in. Now we have a very large house and they are in a room twice the size of the room they were in at the apartment and this room is dedicated just to MUSIC, and still I can't get past the fact they don't impress me like the first time I heard them. They sound awesome but I expect more. Sorry that's just me I guess.
post #33 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal Rubinson View Post

Oh. Sorry I asked.

That's fine. All I am trying to do is see what your experience level is. Bose speakers and Sony receiver tells me.

I'm assuming that my choice in speakers and receiver doesn't stack up to your level of professionalism? My brother in law is the person that goes out and spends $2900 on a cd player and $5000 on a receiver. Are they better than what I have? Most definitely, do they sound superior? Maybe a little. His choice in speakers, BOSE 901!!!

No argument with your choice as long as the priorities are clear. No surprise, either.

All I was attempting to do was to answer anyone's question/fear about buying these speakers. Do you expect $1000/speaker sound from these? NO. Do you want something that performs well and offers a viable solution to a problem? I did and these meet or exceeded my expectations and that's all I was trying to say. Sorry if I can't give you a comparable frequency to distortion comparison to EVERY $150 speaker on the market or some statistic that will sway you one way or another. I live in a pretty well to do neighborhood and have seen and listened to MOST of my neighbor's "surround sound" setups. I think ours sounds every bit as good as anything that they have and unless you're some sort of robot with sound measuring, calibrating and disciphering devices built into your head, neither will you.
post #34 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by remodeler View Post

Wow talk about getting defensive. If anything, that makes more suspicious than ever.



Of course no one will tell you if they think they suck. That'd be like saying "congratulations on having that ugly baby".

Allow me to clarify the "anybody". My brother in law HAS to have the top of the line EVERYTHING. He researches everything he buys for weeks if not months before he will buy it. He paid more for his receiver, cd player and speakers than most people pay for a car!!! He in fact helped me with these and he's not the type of person to pull punches. I told him we'd pull them back out of the wall and return them if he thought they didn't sound as good as they did on display. He returned his speakers 5 times because he said he could hear a defect or they didn't sound right to him before he settled on the ones he has now. When I say returned, I mean he returned the same model over and over again until he got the ones that sounded "perfect" to him.
post #35 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by armaraas View Post


So since you came back for a follow up, just by your description of the 'rumbling noise', I would think that would be a bit worrisome, I wouldn't expect that to be normal. Is it just out of one speaker, or both of them? Could one be loose in the wall and vibrating against something? If it's just one you may want to see about exchanging or replacing it under warranty before you get the nice paint job done.

The sound is more like it is coming from both. It only occurred when the speakers were at their limit {50 watts} and when there was a deep bass sound during the movie. Turning off the "bass boost" stopped it immediately, or turning the volume down to about 40 watts also stopped the sound. We took a good hard look at these before they went in to see how they were built. There is nothing that can come loose and its design is to get its sound from using the wall surface to disperse the sound. According Onsia, these can not be over powered. There is a "cut off" device to prevent damage to them. It appears that it may just be a limit to their ability to reproduce that particular frequency. Imagine the sound of a kazoo, it is sort of like that.
post #36 of 104
He returned the same model speaker 5 times?! What a nut. What did he buy?
post #37 of 104
Chu,

I believe he told us in post #33. His Bro-in-Law has to have only the BEST...Bose 901's. Went through 5 pairs of 'em to get it right.

You don't know whether to laugh or cry.

But seriously Boo...aside from wondering how Jem and Scout are doing now, you should know that neither Bose nor Sony has much of a rep around here. Isolated products may have a deserved following but........no, I've gone too far.
post #38 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post

All I was attempting to do was to answer anyone's question/fear about buying these speakers. Do you expect $1000/speaker sound from these? NO. Do you want something that performs well and offers a viable solution to a problem? I did and these meet or exceeded my expectations and that's all I was trying to say. Sorry if I can't give you a comparable frequency to distortion comparison to EVERY $150 speaker on the market or some statistic that will sway you one way or another. I live in a pretty well to do neighborhood and have seen and listened to MOST of my neighbor's "surround sound" setups.

That's great. It wonderful that someone likes what he has and is proud of it. That, after all, is our common goal, even if we have different needs. From all these posts, it appears to me that your audio requirements are quite modest and have been met.

Quote:


I think ours sounds every bit as good as anything that they have and unless you're some sort of robot with sound measuring, calibrating and disciphering devices built into your head, neither will you.

I was with you until the last phrase. I have heard these (or similar) at electronics shows and strongly disagree.
post #39 of 104
C'mon guys. Boo seems like a sincere guy who is trying to contribute to the forum here, and you're all coming off a bit pious IMO. Just because his point of reference is Bose and Sony does not mean logically that these speakers are bad. It just means that Boo thinks that they are at least as good (if not better) than Bose and Sony stuff. You might think that too if you heard them.

You discounting his opinion just because he isn't an audio hardware geek like most of us here is not very welcoming. Quite insulting, actually.

I know this is new technology. I haven't heard it myself, nor do I pretend to know anything about it. I am very skeptical because I know that variances in wall construction, mud thickness, and any number of weird variables could disrupt the intended design of these things. But that doesn't mean they sound like crap. Heck, maybe they sound pretty good! To me, it's interesting to read Boo's positive report. It has encouraged me to listen to these installed if I get the chance.

Boo: On your Bose speakers, have you tried pulling them away from the wall a bit or experimenting with placement? Sometimes pushing them in or pulling them out, raising them a couple inches, etc, can make a great difference in imaging.

John
post #40 of 104
I'm an internet Reverend. I can come off pious. It is my right.
post #41 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnG316 View Post

C'mon guys. Boo seems like a sincere guy who is trying to contribute to the forum here, and you're all coming off a bit pious IMO. Just because his point of reference is Bose and Sony does not mean logically that these speakers are bad. It just means that Boo thinks that they are at least as good (if not better) than Bose and Sony stuff. You might think that too if you heard them.

You discounting his opinion just because he isn't an audio hardware geek like most of us here is not very welcoming. Quite insulting, actually.

We are not blowing him off but are taking him seriously. His references determine the context of his comments and seem an appropriate match.
post #42 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal Rubinson View Post

Probably not if you compare it with a speaker behind a wall surface.

The Onsia speakers came up for discussion in our Research Lab (USG Acoustical Products) related to building systems. We look at all aspects of the systems, including sound masking and sound reproduction.

Being the resident audiophile I was asked my opinion regarding these "speakers". Onsia does not publish specifications, I believe they should not be called Hi-Fi.

My first reaction was to go to basic physics regarding sound directivity, frequency response and panel size. Since the transducer is about 12" across (wall size too?), horizontal dispersion is minimal at higher frequncies causing beaming.

Please look at this link http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loudspeaker for a definition of "directivity". The equation for calculating dispersion angle is there too.

Sincerely,
Leg One
post #43 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by the rick View Post

This thread just stinks of troll accounts

+1

Every positive post is from a new member. People actually believe this type of marketing will work???
post #44 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal Rubinson View Post

We are not blowing him off but are taking him seriously. His references determine the context of his comments and seem an appropriate match.

I understand, Kal. Again, I am not defending the speakers, just a bit perplexed by the logic of some of the attacks.

If Boo heard your setup and was impressed by it, surely we would not (or could not) conclude that your gear must suck because he owns and likes Sony receivers and Bose speakers. It's just plain silly to leap to that conclusion on that data alone.

I'm encouraged though that others have chimed in, and a truer picture might be forming. I need to get out and listen to these myself. I'm not in the market, just curious. Interesting concept, but as I stated before, I remain skeptical just because of placement limits (you can't really hear them as intended until they are fully installed, and by then it makes it inconvenient to move them), and the variables of construction. I find myself wondering if there could be interesting tweaks or different install methods that could improve performance.
post #45 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leg One View Post

The Onsia speakers came up for discussion in our Research Lab (USG Acoustical Products) related to building systems. We look at all aspects of the systems, including sound masking and sound reproduction.

Being the resident audiophile I was asked my opinion regarding these "speakers". Onsia does not publish specifications, I believe they should not be called Hi-Fi.

My first reaction was to go to basic physics regarding sound directivity, frequency response and panel size. Since the transducer is about 12" across (wall size too?), horizontal dispersion is minimal at higher frequncies causing beaming.

Please look at this link http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loudspeaker for a definition of "directivity". The equation for calculating dispersion angle is there too.

Sincerely,
Leg One

NXT speakers use a bending wave technology: the vibration moves across the radiating surface rather than moving it back and forth like a piston. When using a typical piston-type speaker, then yes, a large diaphragm would have very narrow dispersion.

These might not be the best execution of NXT technology, but NXT speakers actually tend to exhibit extremely wide dispersion.
post #46 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by lne937s View Post

These might not be the best execution of NXT technology, but NXT speakers actually tend to exhibit extremely wide dispersion.

Hi Ine937s,
Is there an NXT audiophile quality loudspeaker currently on the market with a large customer support base? Dealers in Chicago area?

Sincerely,
Leg One
post #47 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnG316 View Post

I understand, Kal. Again, I am not defending the speakers, just a bit perplexed by the logic of some of the attacks.

If Boo heard your setup and was impressed by it, surely we would not (or could not) conclude that your gear must suck because he owns and likes Sony receivers and Bose speakers. It's just plain silly to leap to that conclusion on that data alone.

True, it might be WAY better than Bose.

However, given the theoretical issues of mounting a driver behind a wall treatment, the lack of specifications at the manufacturer's site and my brief, depressing exposure to something very similar at CES or CEDIA (it might have been Onsia or something else; I have repressed the name.), I wanted to put his praise in context.
post #48 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal Rubinson View Post

True, it might be WAY better than Bose.

However, given the theoretical issues of mounting a driver behind a wall treatment, the lack of specifications at the manufacturer's site and my brief, depressing exposure to something very similar at CES or CEDIA (it might have been Onsia or something else; I have repressed the name.), I wanted to put his praise in context.

Fair enough!
post #49 of 104
Quote:


I live in a pretty well to do neighborhood and have seen and listened to MOST of my neighbor's "surround sound" setups. I think ours sounds every bit as good as anything that they have and unless you're some sort of robot with sound measuring, calibrating and disciphering devices built into your head, neither will you.

This is where you lose me. All it takes to discern differences between one set and another is listening and actually hearing what is there. No cyborg devices built into your head or anything like that. I'll admit it does take a little to pick up but it's an ability that is there in anyone who can hear.
post #50 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leg One View Post

Hi Ine937s,
Is there an NXT audiophile quality loudspeaker currently on the market with a large customer support base? Dealers in Chicago area?

Sincerely,
Leg One

I looked on their website:
http://www.nxtsound.com/
http://www.nxtsound.com/index.php?id=436

What Hi-Fi? has given them positive press, but some of the products are only available in the UK.
http://www.nxtsound.com/index.php?id=335&tx_ttnews[pS]=1212531965&tx_ttnews[tt_news]=437&tx_ttnews[backPid]=314&cHash=14808e5798

I think Audiophile might be a stretch...but

I've heard the Mission M-Cube, which was pretty impressive for a micro sub/sat system. Speakers this size generally are severely compromised, but the M-Cube system sounded good for what it was.
http://www.mission.co.uk/ranges.php?...=2&sector_id=1

KEF uses NXT in their 2 speaker systems that simulates surround sound and I think also some of their inwalls. I saw some at Harvey's in New York a while ago, but they weren't hooked up.
http://www.kefinstanttheatre.com/pro...t.default.aspx
http://www.kef.com/products/fivetwo/...s/default.aspx
It looks like there are a few KEF retailers in Chicago:
http://www.kef.com/kefamerica/dealer...p?pageNumber=0

Toyota uses it in the FJ cruiser- (which, given the application wouldn't be audiophile)

The Altec Lansing all-in-1 speakers
http://www.alteclansing.com/index.ph..._id=home_audio

I don't work for or with NXT and personally don't own any. However, it is an interesting concept and I'm sure it has applications where it will work well. BTW, the first time I saw a bending wave transducer was at an Ames Labs display at the Iowa State Fair about 25 years ago- they would put it up against different surfaces and turn them into speakers- thought it was pretty amazing at the time...
post #51 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by lne937s View Post

I looked on their website:
http://www.nxtsound.com/
http://www.nxtsound.com/index.php?id=436

What Hi-Fi? has given them positive press, but some of the products are only available in the UK.
http://www.nxtsound.com/index.php?id=335&tx_ttnews[pS]=1212531965&tx_ttnews[tt_news]=437&tx_ttnews[backPid]=314&cHash=14808e5798

I think Audiophile might be a stretch...but

I've heard the Mission M-Cube, which was pretty impressive for a micro sub/sat system. Speakers this size generally are severely compromised, but the M-Cube system sounded good for what it was.
http://www.mission.co.uk/ranges.php?...=2&sector_id=1

KEF uses NXT in their 2 speaker systems that simulates surround sound and I think also some of their inwalls. I saw some at Harvey's in New York a while ago, but they weren't hooked up.
http://www.kefinstanttheatre.com/pro...t.default.aspx
http://www.kef.com/products/fivetwo/...s/default.aspx
It looks like there are a few KEF retailers in Chicago:
http://www.kef.com/kefamerica/dealer...p?pageNumber=0

Toyota uses it in the FJ cruiser- (which, given the application wouldn't be audiophile)

The Altec Lansing all-in-1 speakers
http://www.alteclansing.com/index.ph..._id=home_audio

I don't work for or with NXT and personally don't own any. However, it is an interesting concept and I'm sure it has applications where it will work well. BTW, the first time I saw a bending wave transducer was at an Ames Labs display at the Iowa State Fair about 25 years ago- they would put it up against different surfaces and turn them into speakers- thought it was pretty amazing at the time...

I stopped going to their CES demos because they always promised something "high-end" and never showed anything but "life-style" products.
post #52 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal Rubinson View Post

I have repressed the name.

LOL. But do they pop up in your dreams?

Ya'll play nice.
post #53 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal Rubinson View Post

I stopped going to their CES demos because they always promised something "high-end" and never showed anything but "life-style" products.

Which have their place in the market. But unfortunately I think for the original poster, he's talking in a completely different realm. I for one don't settle for anything less than a non axis frequency graph... at least!
post #54 of 104
that should be an on-axis graph...
post #55 of 104
The Bose people tell me that the bass sounds have to be aimed at a wall and gave me the distance from the wall that they should be. In the store, they were not near a wall and unless they had other speakers contributing to the sound, these sounded pretty good.

Now that I have been grilled by some and welcomed by others like yourself, perhaps I should ask how it is that some of you go about selecting audio equipment? How do you base your opinions on what is good and what is not? My brother in law seems to think the MOST expensive MUST be the best, and is quite uptight about getting the "perfect" sound.

Also, minus one problem with my Sony receiver which involved trying to drown out the neighbors in the apartment next to us and cause the wall to come down so I could pound them for their music volume. I lost the left amplifier in our receiver as the speakers were able to handle more than the receiver could deliver, I do not understand the "bad reputation" that Sony and Bose has, perhaps someone would please elaborate.

When we bought our flat screen, again we went to the specialty stores, installation companies, electronic stores and department stores and almost every one of them spoke highly of the Sony model we were interested in. My wife thinks Sony makes the best of everything. Perhaps because everything we've owned made by Sony outlasts and everything our friends and family buy. I may not be an audio geek, but my job involves calibration of test and measurement equipment so I understand all the test data supplied by manufacturers as they compare their products to others.

One last thing, Onsia does NOT try and sell their product as the TOP of the line or the BEST speaker on the market. Instead they offer home owners a solution to a problem with a VERY good product. If you have to have $1,000,000 speakers to provide you with ambiance noise {my brother in law} while watching a movie, then more power to you, have fun hiding the wires or trying to blend the speakers in without having them in the way. To answer your next question, yes he is considering buying two of these speakers himself to provide the background sounds to his surround sound.
post #56 of 104
Hello Boo,

Well, welcome to the hobby then. Like any hobby, there are evangelists for every angle and strong opinions fly. Don't let that daunt you though. Take some time and lurk around here for a while.

As far as gear is concerned, I'd say that most people in the hobby are fans for A-B comparisons. Take some music that you're very familiar with, something that has lots of detail, dynamic range, imagining content, and is generally well-recorded to a store and start listening to speakers in side-by-side comparison. As you tune in your ears, you'll start to discover that some speakers sound "smooth" and others sound "harsh." You'll see that some give you good stereo imaging, but only if you stand in a precise place, and others give good imaging over a wider area. You'll hear detail in some that is muddied up in others.

Start with speakers, because it's there that differences are fairly pronounced. You'll discover your likes and preferences the more you listen critically. Once you have a good handle on that, you'll start to notice sound differences in amps and other components.

And that brings me to Bose... If you do a search here, you'll find plenty of information. My main issue with that company is they don't easily allow you to A-B compare. Have you ever been in a store that sells Bose and noticed that they are in a different part of the store? This is by design so you can't A-B compare! There are frequency holes in the Lifestyle speakers that become very apparent when you compare directly to something full-range. Bose knows this, so they make their retailers display them in their own section of the store. There is more, but you get the idea. Most of us around here feels they are being deceptive to lure in folks who could get a lot more for their money elsewhere.

If you're ever in Indiana, shoot me a PM, and you can come over and hear my gear if you like.

PS. The most expensive is almost never the best in this hobby, IMO. Part of the fun is finding the inexpensive item that looks and sounds expensive! It's an ongoing treasure hunt.

John
post #57 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by Veda View Post

that should be an on-axis graph...

We know. It was funnier the other way, though.
post #58 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post

Now that I have been grilled by some and welcomed by others like yourself, perhaps I should ask how it is that some of you go about selecting audio equipment? How do you base your opinions on what is good and what is not?

The most important way is to listen to lots of stuff for a long time. In the old days, we used to speaker of "starter systems." That's the first thing you buy and, often, it is the beginning of serious listening. It also becomes your standard against which you compare the other stuff you hear. Today, with multichannel and HT, that is more of a problem since so many people insist on built-in or hidden equipment and that makes it harder to choose and/or change. OTOH, that may be the primary criterion for some people.

Quote:
My brother in law seems to think the MOST expensive MUST be the best, and is quite uptight about getting the "perfect" sound.

Uptight is bad. This is a hobby that is often transformed into an obsession. It should remain fun and, speaking only for myself, I get great enjoyment from the office system that I am listening to right now despite preferring my other systems which cost 100x+ more!

Quote:
When we bought our flat screen, again we went to the specialty stores, installation companies, electronic stores and department stores and almost every one of them spoke highly of the Sony model we were interested in. My wife thinks Sony makes the best of everything. Perhaps because everything we've owned made by Sony outlasts and everything our friends and family buy. I may not be an audio geek, but my job involves calibration of test and measurement equipment so I understand all the test data supplied by manufacturers as they compare their products to others.

I have nothing against Sony (I have several Sony components) but the uniformity of the recommendations tells me that you were not really exposed to a wide range of opinions or options. That, of course, depends on what is available in your town.

Quote:
One last thing, Onsia does NOT try and sell their product as the TOP of the line or the BEST speaker on the market. Instead they offer home owners a solution to a problem with a VERY good product.

OK but their website implies more.

Quote:
If you have to have $1,000,000 speakers to provide you with ambiance noise {my brother in law} while watching a movie, then more power to you, have fun hiding the wires or trying to blend the speakers in without having them in the way.

Red herring. The issue is not spending money, per se, but having a desire for a particular level of performance. Then, the other issues are secondary. OTOH, if your particular requirement is invisibility, then sound quality must become secondary.

Quote:
To answer your next question, yes he is considering buying two of these speakers himself to provide the background sounds to his surround sound.

By this, can we assume you mean surround channels? If so, OK but there will be significant tonal differences with his front speakers.
post #59 of 104
New technology is almost always met with skeptics. Until you here the sound from a speaker, how can you judge it or compare it.

I believe that Onsia has a solution for several applications. It solves the problem of a wife that does not want to see speakers and wires.

I had the chance to see these guys at this years Home Builder Show and at KBIS. They had a room setup that you could go in and listen to the Onsia speakers. It blew me away that you could get this kind of sound out of speakers like this. There was no sign of a speaker anywhere in this room, yet sound filled the room.

I'm not going to blow smoke and tell you that these were the best I have ever heard, but they are worth a listen and for the price they do have a place in the world of sound. For me I am going to give them a go. If I don,t like them, well they are not visible, so I just hook up something else.

Just My 2 Cents
post #60 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post

My brother in law seems to think the MOST expensive MUST be the best, and is quite uptight about getting the "perfect" sound.

If this is true then you've been hanging around with the wrong guy, or someone who just entered this hobby and know nothing about true measured performance. Let us brainwash you a bit...
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