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Cozy Room in Room Theater Build - Page 2

post #31 of 187
i also have a question

is it overdoing it for soundproofing to place rsic clips with dd and gg?

also, why is it that the soffit is framed after placing all the drywall. cant soundproofing still work if the frame of the soffit is connected to the studs and then rsic with dd and gg is placed on the walls and soffits?. i would think that the soffit would have a stronger foundation.
post #32 of 187
The soffit's structural integrity is just as sound.

1. It is easier to seal and isolate a rectange than a polygon;
2. With the soffit internal to the room, it can be used as a wire chase without affecting the integrity of the isolation;
3. You must bring HVAC into the room. This requires very large holes through the barrier. With an internal soffit, you bring the supply/return ducts into the room behind the internal soffit using the soffit itself as a duct chase. This allows multiple 90 degree turns in the duct and between the opening in the barrier and the opening in the soffit for the return/supply (the soffit should be lined with an appropriate fiberglass liner).

Clips plus GG and DD ... nope not excessive and GAP for this kind of application.
post #33 of 187
but if i am placing clips with dd and gg on the wall, how am i connecting the soffit frame to be strong enough to support its weight and without compromising the soundproofing?

plus the soffit i am making is just for cosmetics and lighting. i am going to have an 8" space above the soffit with the soffit being 4" thick. i will be placing rope lighting or recessed lighting above the soffit and recessed spot lighting inside the soffit.
post #34 of 187
are you going to finish the soffit with drywall or fabric? if fabric, then you can make it out of mdf (drill holes in the center of it to make it lighter). or you can secure a 2x2 on the main wall and ceiling first, and then attach the mdf strips to it. i realize what your saying about being securely fastened, but i really don't know how it can be it you have to attach the soffit to the hat channel, which imo propbably won't be strong enough to support the whole soffit.
post #35 of 187
any updates on this thread. looking forward to see your new floating ceiling completed.
post #36 of 187
Thread Starter 
After a brief delay... framing is almost finished. The ceiling isn't up yet, but everything else is framed. I'm also finishing the rest of the basement at the same time so even with help, it's going to go a little slower than if I was just doing the theater. That said, everything seems to be moving along!

Pictures, with descriptions below each...


This is from the back left corner (left of the seating area) showing the outside wall with rough opening for a 5' exterior solid wood door. That wall is a double stud wall.



View from the seating area looking forward to the front of the room. There will be a stage built up from the floor to go over the sump pump plumbing. Also, the HVAC duct will be bulkheaded outside of the room in room construction, placing it behind DD+GG. Partway under the bulkhead and 1-2' off the front wall will be a screen wall to hold an audio transparent screen.



Looking into the theater from the outside. Two details in this picture: I used a load bearing framing header (2x10s sandwiching 1/2" plywood) across the door on the inside of the theater. My thinking there was that the 5' solid wood doors will be heavy, and I may add 3/4" MDF+GG to them on the inside, so I want that wall/opening to be sturdy. Other thing you can see from this view is the nook on the opposite side of the room. That will hold the equipment. I haven't decided if it will have a door yet. If it does, it will have a HVAC supply going into the bottom of it and a return from the top to help airflow.



Detail of the double stud wall. Approx 1" gap, no connections.



Another view of the double stud wall. The "ladder" you see is built on the outside wall from the perspective of the theater and just provides a tie point to a tall that becomes the front of that closet that borders the theater. I think that closet will be a good place to put some 90 degree turns in my HVAC supply and return lines.



Neutraphone (like Acoustik Mat) placed under the HVAC air handler, at DE's recommendation. The Mat is about 9/16" thick. The bottom of the HVAC air handler seemed to have a solid treatment of sheet metal and I didn't have height in the duct above to raise it enough to put plywood on top of the mat so it's sitting directly on the mat. I had to have the plumber disconnect the gas supply to the furnace to lift it. Luckily he was already scheduled to be in for some other work. Lifting the furnace and sliding the mat under took no more than 10 minutes.



The sump pipes don't touch the wood of the framing. I think we will drywall around them and do the best we can to make it air tight. The guy who's helping me has done drywall for many years and tells me it's no problem, he's done similar work around pipes in hospitals where they can't have any gap between the wall and the pipe. If anyone has better suggestions for handling this penetration, let me know!
post #37 of 187
Thread Starter 

This is a detail looking up at the HVAC trunk in the front of the room. I removed a supply that used to be tapped into it and sheet metal and taped the edges. Also, you can see a drain pipe up in the ceiling at the height of the HVAC duct. There's too much going on up there to keep any usable space from it in the theater. Also, it will be behind the screen wall. That's what led me to bulkhead that entire area outside of the room in room. The other thing you can see is pencil marks for the ceiling joists. even though there are still a few obstructions in the ceiling, I was able to work out 16" oc and a couple 19.2" oc spacings for the joists that will work. I used a span calculator to make sure the ceiling will be plenty strong.



Trickiest part of the ceiling wrt joist spacing. Believe it or not, there is room to put the joists up without contacting any existing framing or plumbing. In one or two cases, the clearance is about 3/8" on each side of the joist, so I will have to use the straightest members in those cases. I also have metal joist hangers to secure them in place so they don't move before/during drywalling the ceiling. You can also see I made the front and back walls with a double top plate. I considered those walls to be load bearing because they will hold up the ceiling joists.



Another look at the equipment closet. You can also see the DC-04 clips in a few places around the top plates. They are every 2' and 6" from every corner.



I probably have 1 or 2 extra DC-04's above the 5' door. I didn't want to over do it but again, with the mass of the doors, I don't want that drywall cracking if someone slams the heavy door.



There was one supply that filled a ceiling joist bay that I absolutely needed. It also was the 3rd supply in the family room upstairs which is always the coldest (in the summer) and hottest (in the winter) room in the house. We didn't need it so I took that like out and covered the opening with 3/4" MDF.



The I-Beam will be bulkheaded around. It's at the rear of the theater, above the seating area. It will be bulkheaded outside of the room but the DD+GG and framing will be kept close to the beam, about 1/2". The space in the ceiling between the beam bulkhead and back wall will hold a soffit/bulkhead after the room in room is constructed. That will be the area we run supply, return, electric, and possibly some can lights.
post #38 of 187
looking good, im really curious how your going to do your floating ceiling as im in the same boat and gathering ideas.
post #39 of 187
okay cmon, wheres the rest... im dying to see the ceiling!!!
post #40 of 187
Thread Starter 
Me too!

Moving slowly this week. I just finished putting double studs in the corners yesterday to make drywalling easier.

I need to put insulation up in the ceiling first, then I will put the joists up. I will probably have my helper back next week, that should be when we get the joists up and I'll post pictures for sure!
post #41 of 187
Thread Starter 
For double 5/8" drywall, does it make a different if it is fire code / fire brand or not?

Seems like it wouldn't hurt to use fire code (which apparently has some different fibers and is harder to cut/snap) if it has not detrimental affect on sound isolation / proofing.
post #42 of 187
I'm not sure that 5/8 NON-fire code is even available on a normal basis. But no matter. Either would work fine. It's just a mass thing. More is better
post #43 of 187
I noted the construction method used for the double stud walls with the inner and outer studs aligned with each other. Those of you doing this in the future...you should offset the inner/outer studs by 8". For insulation you use an R13 on each side. Not a big enough deal for a do over...just a better way to do double wall construction.
post #44 of 187
What is the best way to fire stop this area and keep it decoupled from the foundation?

post #45 of 187
Doesn't the original framing incorporate firestop? You don't need 2 sets of firestop
post #46 of 187
If you drywall the interior the back is left open and fire could go out the back wall and up to the room above. That is what my framing guy said last week. He said you need minumim 1/2 " drywall from the top of the new wall over to the foundation sill, which would couple the two together. Just wanted to see if this has been a code issue, when I get to this point.
post #47 of 187
This is news to me. My understanding is that you need blocking between levels. No chane from the basement to the second floor. Given that you have a subfloor above that is the fireblock. He's suggesting to put a fireblock under the joists in addition to the fireblock on top of the joists.

Perhaps this is a local code.
post #48 of 187
Quote:
Originally Posted by bmcent1 View Post


After talking to Bryan, what we came to was 2x4 framed stud walls 1" away from all the concrete walls, with DD and GG on both sides.


Quote:
Originally Posted by bmcent1 View Post

After a brief delay... framing is almost finished.
Pictures, with descriptions below each...


I was wondering how you were going to build walls with DD & GG on the side facing the foundation... Did you find this too difficult to bother with or was it something simply left out for some other design?

...edit: Sorry the link to your pics of the walls located beside the foundation showed up in the preview I did... I must be missing something.
post #49 of 187
Quote:
Originally Posted by KERMIE View Post

What is the best way to fire stop this area and keep it decoupled from the foundation?



In my area, fiberglass insulation is acceptable as a "fire blocking", which would maintain your decoupling. My county has a pretty nice guide to finished basement building codes located here.

http://www.fairfaxcounty.gov/dpwes/p...ts/details.pdf

May or may not be applicable to your area.
post #50 of 187
Quote:
Originally Posted by smokinghot View Post

I was wondering how you were going to build walls with DD & GG on the side facing the foundation

Let's hope that was the plan for the non-foundation walls. That would not at all be the advised move up against a foundation.
post #51 of 187
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ted White View Post

Let's hope that was the plan for the non-foundation walls. That would not at all be the advised move up against a foundation.

Whew.. That's good. I'm about to do the same type of frame work and this threw me for a loop.
post #52 of 187
Yes, it would be a shame to divide up that air cavity and raise resonance point. Much better to have all on theater side
post #53 of 187
Thread Starter 
Hey all... need your help/ideas on ceiling joists.
(And before anyone calls me out, yes, I may be the slowest DIY builder yet )

I have an i-Beam running the width of the room. It holds up the 1st floor joists. I'm going to use stud isolators I bought from bpape so I can rest one end of the new joists on the beam and yet it will still be isolated. The other end of the new joist will sit on top of the new walls which are 1/2" below the old ceiling and attached by DC-04s.

Here's a rough CAD drawing (isolator not drawn to scale, it fits snugly on a 2x8 and is about 3/8" thick) -



The problem/question is this:
The length of the room is about 18' long, also there is a deck outside, so there's no easy way to get one piece joists up into the ceiling if I could get them that long.

So... I'm going to use a 16' joist from front wall to the beam, then another separate joist from the beam to the back wall.

For ease of putting up drywall, and keeping them from moving (which should never happen in the mid-atlantic) do I need to lash the two joists together somehow? How would you do it?

There's a thickness to the rubber isolater so I cannot easily but the two joists directly together. I think the beam is about 5" long and the isolators are about 2" long each which would only leave about 1" of overlap.

Should I use a third short piece of 5" long 2x8 and long screws to lash it all together?

Any other ideas?
post #54 of 187
Using those isolators on top of a beam won't isolate. Rubber is far too rigid, and additional weight from drywall will simply compress further.

This may still be the option of choice for other reasons, however.
post #55 of 187
Thread Starter 
Hmmm... if you've got other suggestions, I'm all ears, but please speak up quickly or forever hold your peace We might start putting these up today. Definately by tomorrow unless I change plans.

The other walls are connected to the old joists by DC-04s, so also a rubber wood connection.

I don't have an isolated floor. So this is a room within room, but not the extreme version.

I'm thinking/hoping that the rubber boots will still be a change in medium, which will damp vibrations. Also, something like a heavy footfall upstairs would have to first transmit through the old joist to the beam (easy), down the beam (I guess harder, it's an ibeam), and then up through the rubber boot, then up to the new joist. It seems like it will loose a lot of energy along that path.
post #56 of 187
The DC-04 isolator and the rubber u-shaped piece are not the same at all. Different durometer of rubber. The DC-04 is being stretched under stress, while the U-shaped rubber is enormously compressed.

The U-shaped isolators will conduct vibration quite well in this instance.

Without opening a whole can of worms, some hang new wood beams off the steel I beam with DC-04s, some go over the beam, etc. That steel beam is the most conductive material in your room, and it is attached to every joist in your house.
post #57 of 187
Thread Starter 
Can the DC-04's work structurally like that (ie, not just a sheering force holding up a wall, but as devices to hold up joists which support DD?
post #58 of 187
Not perpendicularly. So that was a bad example on my part.
post #59 of 187
Great idea on the sump pump. I have the same problem with my HT build. Now, that I see what you are doing, I'm going to redo the wall around my sump pump and make it a bench since mine is in the rear of the HT.

Question - Do you (or anyone else here) think there are any code issues with the power plug for the sump pump behind the drywall? What are your plans for accessing the power?

You're not too far from me - I live in Clarksburg.

Good luck.
post #60 of 187
Thread Starter 
Regarding the drawing above, we decided not to lash the joists together. Instead, we kept spaces between them. Not that they need securing, because they rest on the I-beam, but they got ladders which give them lateral support for good measure. Reason was, we needed to bulkhead/soffit around the I-beam anyway.

We built the ladders, held the insulation in place and then nailed the ladders to the new ceiling joists, keeping the whole soffit connected to the new room in room construction. We used 1/2" plywood on the bottom of the soffit, giving it good strength and not taking up much additional headrooms.

The room is now completely stuffed with insulation, there are no voids in the ceiling or walls. Also, I put insulation up in the ceiling before the new joists went in, then more after the new joists went in, making extra sure there were no empty cavities.

I'll post pictures late tonight or tomorrow. Drywall and GG goes up Thursday and Friday!
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