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Making transition from CRT to LCOS - A little starter help needed

post #1 of 25
Thread Starter 
I have three TV's in my home, all Pioneer Elites. They are eight years old now. All have burn in and uneven phosphor wear on them. If I could just replace the CRT guns themselves, I would, but that would cost more than getting new sets. I'm pretty scared about the current DLP situation, which looks like they will all be dropped like CRT's were years ago, so I've decided that now is the time to be replacing them.

I've already located a Sony KDS-R70XBR2 to replace my Pioneer Pro 710 to start.

I calibrate all my sets myself. I am an engineer by trade and learned and honed by calibration abilities over the years. I have my own equipment (I recently got a Sencore OTC1000... it rocks . I do a screen, lens (all nine surfaces), and mirror clean every year, as well as convergence, focus (manual & electrostatic), greyscale, color, etc.

Of course I'm very well familiar with the service menus on these sets.

Can anyone advise me on the service menu on the KDS-R70XBR2? How "ISF" friendly is it? I will be getting the service manual for this set, but it would be nice if someone could point me to a site that details the SM functions we are most interested in for calibrating.

The other thing I'm worried about is dust. Dust cleaning the mirrors and lenses on the CRT's was pretty straightforward. Can any ISF calibrators advise me on how and what gets cleaned on the KDS-R70XBR2? I've heard some people say that the light engine can't be cleaned and the only thing you can do to fix dust in the light engine is to replace it. I'd like to know what you normally do.

I'm not an idiot DIYer trying to save money, I can afford to pay to have it done, but I have a genuine love for doing it myself and I enjoy learning all I can. I think I have a good aptitude for this and I did excellent work with my CRT's. If I could be a professional ISF calibrator, I would, but I don't really enjoy traveling, plus from what I've heard it's not really a steady income.
post #2 of 25
I'm in the same boat as you... Pioneers with me as well, and was planning on JVC HD-ILA but the more I hear about that Sony the more I think I will go with it (providing I can find it).

Manualsparadise.com or servicemanuals.net should have the service manual.

As to the internal cleaning procedures, that is something I too have a great interest in learning about. However, people who do ISF calibrations don't like to discuss such things, as this is a service for which they typically charge. But I'm hopeful someone will reply with some useful info!
post #3 of 25
Greetings

Bear in mind that while the OTC might work well for your CRT sets, its accuracy for LCOS and DLP is currently more limited/questionable. (Hopefully to be addressed shortly)

To get at the lens on most of the digital units usually requires taking the front screen assembly off. There are so many permutations out there. Get a service manual and figure that part out for yourself. Rarely that hard ... just takes a lot of time and you likely need two people to do it on a 70 inch unit.

Beware of green blob issues on the Sony sets though ...

Regards
post #4 of 25
Thread Starter 
What is "green blob?"

I've seen it mentioned here and there, but I've yet to read an explanation of what it is, what causes it, how likely it is to occur, and how to fix it.

Can someone please elaborate?
post #5 of 25
Greetings

Fix ... replace the projector engine ... ie replace the projector in the TV.

Cause ... overheating causing degradation of typically the blue panel (RGB). As blue degrades, the image becomes more and more green ... seen as a green blobby appearance ... against black backgrounds.

Temp Fix ... set all color temps to be much more blue than before to mask the problem from the consumer. (Problem was ... if you calibrated the TV ... you were more likely to see the problem when it occurred.)

Frequency ... YMMV ... but enough that many have heard about it.

Regards
post #6 of 25
That's useful to know... thanks!
post #7 of 25
Do you know if the "green blob" problem is due to a manufacturing defect?

In other words, if it happens, and you get the projector engine replaced, can it happen again?
post #8 of 25
If it's due to overheating it's probably a design issue, which means that it can happen again.
post #9 of 25
Where did you find a 70" XBR? I thought these couldn't be found.
post #10 of 25
Greetings

Yeah ... pumping up the blue in the color temp settings to mask the problem is hardly a "fix" for the problem.

We'll just cover up that cancer blemish on your arm with more make up ... so you can't see the problem anymore. There ... all better. NOT.

Regards
post #11 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael TLV View Post


Temp Fix ... set all color temps to be much more blue than before to mask the problem from the consumer. (Problem was ... if you calibrated the TV ... you were more likely to see the problem when it occurred.)

Mike - Glad you posted this. I was reducing the green to combat the problem (while I work with Sony) and that only helped a bit. I pumped up the blue quite a bit, and still had to back off the green a little and now it looks like a minor problem, like it did a few months back.

Do you have any insight as to where the temp problem is from? Is it from an inadequate fan for the bulb? Or is a fan or bigger heat sink needed in the circuit board?

Maybe I should keep the heat in my house down to about 50 degrees when I get my new OB.
post #12 of 25
If it's such a big problem, I wonder why this set is touted by many people as the "best of the best?"
post #13 of 25
Probably because they don't have the problem or haven't seen it.
post #14 of 25
It appears for other AVSForum threads that the "green blob" problem has diminished with later sets. Perhaps, they are getting the manufacturing process under better control.

You do know that Sony is dumping RPTVs, don't you? These sets may be getting hard to find.

I'd like to suggest the 60A3000 instead of the 70XBR2. The A3000 has a new chassis and has lots of new features (120Hz, 24fps display, HDMI 1.3, Deep Color, etc.). Besides the sets have been very close to HD colorimetry specs. The downside is that they have a narrower viewing angle than the older SXRD sets - owing to a new optical design with a thinner box.

Oh yeh, I purchased a 55A3000 about a month ago, and LOVE it!
post #15 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by davehancock View Post

I'd like to suggest the 60A3000 instead of the 70XBR2.

But it's only 60 inches.
post #16 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grendell View Post

But it's only 60 inches.

Yes, but..........
post #17 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael TLV View Post

Bear in mind that while the OTC might work well for your CRT sets, its accuracy for LCOS and DLP is currently more limited/questionable.

That's pretty bad for people who purchased this $7,000 device.

Where did you get this information? Can you elaborate more? What are its problems specifically with DLP/LCoS? Will a fix be provided by Sencore free of charge? What will the fix be? Will it be user installed in the field, or will it require sending the unit back in? Who should one contact at Sencore about it?
post #18 of 25
Greetings

The hope is that it will be handled through software. Think Offset files.

Regards
post #19 of 25
Argh... I wonder how bad the problem is... that was supposed to be in development for years...

Offset files doesn't sound like a good solution to me... there will need to be a separate offset file for each make and model of television... not something you want to have to deal with for a $7000 piece of equipment (when a $1000 piece of equipment - the GTM - does it better).

I really wanted the OTC1000 to be my meter of choice, I had heard so many good things about it.
post #20 of 25
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael TLV View Post

Greetings

The hope is that it will be handled through software. Think Offset files.

Regards

Wow, to me, that is horrible news. Offset files? For The Hubble? That's a MAJOR foul-up. I feel like I've been ripped off.

I'll be calling Sencore on Monday about this.
post #21 of 25
Please post the results of that call if you would...
post #22 of 25
Thread Starter 
I talked with Sencore earlier this week.

They said that they are aware of the situation of what Michael has reported from his work with the THX people. They say that before it was released, the OTC1000 was tested extensively by them, X-Rite, and various beta testers, and no one had reported any problems with measurements on DLP/LCOS displays, and in fact the unit was calibrated for use with such displays before any of them were shipped. At this point, the only information they have that there is a problem is coming from Michael. So they are first going to try to determine if this is indeed a widespread problem, and IF they find that it is, then they will probably look at taking units back from customers for recalibration. However, that step is something that they are NOT planning on doing until they determine 1) if there IS a problem and 2) how widespread the problem is.
post #23 of 25
Greetings

Seems reasonable enough. Will see them at the THX Video training in LA at month end when I do the set up for the course.

Regards
post #24 of 25
Just wanted to respond to this thread to state with certainty that we have not had nay formal reports of problems with measurements on DLP/LCOS displays from customers at this point. Given that the OTC-1000/Hubble is relatively new to the market, I am certain it is gong to get a thorough working out/over as customers put the product through its paces. If any unanticipated issues come to light (and please share your experiences if they do!) we will work to address them with Sencore immediately.

Regards,

Matt
post #25 of 25
Thread Starter 
Today in the mail I received version 1.02 of the OTC1000 software from Sencore. (They sent it to me automatically for no charge.) It would appear that these measuring issues as reported by Michael to THX were the result of one or more software bugs, and those bugs should be fixed in this new software version.

I have not had time to install and try it out yet.
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