or Connect
AVS › AVS Forum › HDTV › HDTV Recorders › Official AVS Motorola DCX series HD DVR Topic!
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Official AVS Motorola DCX series HD DVR Topic! - Page 146

post #4351 of 4769
We didn't have to do any configuration with our 3400. Just plugged in the component cables to run to an older Oanny Plasma that didn't have HDMI. Of course we have no way of knowing if both are active at the same time. We just got the newer 3501 for our 2nd home - no set up there and we are using HDMI. Just plugged in the HDMI cable.
post #4352 of 4769
Kevin, I haven't looked lately, but the only setting in the setup menu that could affect that is that you can choose DVI or HDMI. If you choose DVI, and use HDMI, you get no audio on the HDMI. At least, that's the way it used to be.
post #4353 of 4769
Hey guys,

I just got two dcx3501-m boxes from Charter in St. Louis -- but don't have the desire to read through 146 pages of threads...(sorry).


One is dead, I have to call about that...it's giving the S0900 code regardless of how long it's plugged in or how many times it's reset.

The other won't retain my settings. I WANT the 4:3 Override setting to 480P because I can't stand watching SD channels in a tiny box. It retains the settings until the unit is powered off. Is there any way to make this permanent?


Thanks in advance!


Phil
post #4354 of 4769
Quote:
Originally Posted by pmgodfrey View Post

Hey guys,
I just got two dcx3501-m boxes from Charter in St. Louis -- but don't have the desire to read through 146 pages of threads...(sorry).
One is dead, I have to call about that...it's giving the S0900 code regardless of how long it's plugged in or how many times it's reset.
The other won't retain my settings. I WANT the 4:3 Override setting to 480P because I can't stand watching SD channels in a tiny box. It retains the settings until the unit is powered off. Is there any way to make this permanent?
Thanks in advance!
Phil
There is no reason to ever turn off the box. Unfortunately, Motorola designed all their boxes to be energy hogs. On or off they still burn virtually the same amount of electricity - 30 to 35 watts as I recall. For years, very few users have stated they bother turning them off.

mike
post #4355 of 4769
Quote:
Originally Posted by pmgodfrey View Post

Hey guys,

I just got two dcx3501-m boxes from Charter in St. Louis -- but don't have the desire to read through 146 pages of threads...(sorry).


One is dead, I have to call about that...it's giving the S0900 code regardless of how long it's plugged in or how many times it's reset.

The other won't retain my settings. I WANT the 4:3 Override setting to 480P because I can't stand watching SD channels in a tiny box. It retains the settings until the unit is powered off. Is there any way to make this permanent?


Thanks in advance!


Phil

My DCX-3400m loses the resolution setting each time I turn my TV on when it tries to handshake through my AVR. Several users here have reported that bypassing the AVR (HDMI connects directly to the TV and an optical digital audio connection feeds the receiver) resolves this handshaking issue.
post #4356 of 4769
The DCX3501 uses 25 watts on and 17 watts off and it is energy star qualified.

http://www.energystar.gov/ia/products/prod_lists/set_top_boxes_prod_list.pdf
post #4357 of 4769
Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulGo View Post

The DCX3501 uses 25 watts on and 17 watts off and it is energy star qualified.
http://www.energystar.gov/ia/products/prod_lists/set_top_boxes_prod_list.pdf

That's good to see. For years the Moto boxes burned well over 30 watts (forget the exact number) and there was only 1 watt diff. between "on" and "off". I don't know about the DCX3400M. At 35 watts on the older models that are still in common use for most new customers - that's 25 KWH/mo.
17 watts when "off" still sounds like a lot. I would think it would take a lot less to simply retain basic settings. They should be designed for a "deep sleep" mode you can set when you are going to be away for any length of time. At least there is now a reason to turn off the box - unless you are one of the few that loses important settings when you do that.
post #4358 of 4769
Here is a response I got from Motorola a year ago about their (outrageous) electrical usage on the DCT 6412 and, I think the 3416?
===
Motorola Technical Support motorola-chs@mailwc.custhelp.com
6/29/11
Reply
to mike
Response
We have not heard from you concerning your request for support in the 48 hours since we sent you a response.
Please contact us if you continue to have problems.

Motorola Technical Support
Discussion Thread
Response Via Email(Motorola Technical Support) - 06/27/2011 04:48 PM
Valued Motorola Mobility Customer,

Thank you for contacting Motorola Mobility Technical Support. I apologize for the inconvenience you are having with your Set Top boxes. I am happy to assist you with this.

They both use about 45 Watts I hope this helps.

You can also visit our web site at http://motorola.com/mygateway to access your user's guide and frequently asked questions about your product.

Sincerely,



Scott
Motorola Mobility Technical Support
post #4359 of 4769
Does anybody know if the DCX3501-M (Motorola RNG200N) uses the same remote code as the old DCT's? I believe 01376 is the code (with working 30 second skip) that I was using on my DCT6412 that just died. I've seen confirmation that the DCX3400's use it, but nothing on the newer 3501 model. Waiting for my 3501 to arrive and trying to do any advance remote setup that needs to be done to my universal remote (I'm not using Comcast's supplied remote and don't plan to). I did some research on the JP1 remote forums and cannot find anything about this "new" STB... I am hoping that is simply because in regard to remote codes there is nothing new and the tried and true 01376 works fine with it. Thanks all,
post #4360 of 4769
We use the remotes from the old DCT boxes we had (still have one) and the DCX3400 and the 3501 (we have one of each). We have service in 2 locations. All remotes we have, new and old, work all boxes.
There is a slight diff. between the silver colored remote and the almost similar looking grey remote. The key layout is identical There is a slite diff. when it comes to programming the 30 sec. skip. Thw programming instructions for both are on the wiki article for the Moto boxes.
post #4361 of 4769
I can't remember what STB I had before I was able to score a 3501 but I can tell you that I had the 30 second skip programed into my universal remote and I did not have to change anything on the remote when I put the 3501 into service. Unfortunately, I am now waiting for the 3501 to be replaced by a 3400-M. Fortunately it appears that I won't have to mess with my remote with this change in STB's either. Good! Thanks for that info.
post #4362 of 4769
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikemelinda2000 View Post

I can't remember what STB I had before I was able to score a 3501 but I can tell you that I had the 30 second skip programed into my universal remote and I did not have to change anything on the remote when I put the 3501 into service. Unfortunately, I am now waiting for the 3501 to be replaced by a 3400-M. Fortunately it appears that I won't have to mess with my remote with this change in STB's either. Good! Thanks for that info.

Why are you replacing the (newer model I think) 3501 with the 3400M?
post #4363 of 4769
Quote:
Originally Posted by snidely View Post

Why are you replacing the (newer model I think) 3501 with the 3400M?

I am asking my self the same question. I worked really hard to get the 3501. However, I've ordered Any Room DVR and mine is not a 3501-M. I would think that it might not be that difficult to make it a 3501-M (perhaps change the M card?) but I fear that getting Comcast to do that would take an act of Congress. I broached the subject with the CSR when I placed the order but it seemed he didn't know what I was talking about so I just dropped it.
post #4364 of 4769
I confirm my universal remote did not need any changing. The DCT codes programmed into the remote work the DCX models just fine. Unfortunately the DCX models simultaneously accept the XMP code signals that are used by the pace "digital tuning adapter" I am also using in my fam room which is irritating. I've read people buying an IR emitter cable to plug into back of box and just hide the box inside a cabinet but that will not work for my setup since I'm already using an IR emitter as part of an RF remote setup and my RF base station is not addressable.

In addition, a much more annoying issue occurs with this DCX box. I have it set to output 1080i which is the signal that Comcast in my area uses. I have HDMI connected to my AVR upstairs and simultaneously using the component video outputs to run a feed into my basement HDTV. I never power off the cable box yet at seemingly random intervals the box restores default video output settings which were somehow set to 1080p/60. The problem with this is the 1080p output over HDMI causes a 480i signal to be output over the component video to the basement. I want the stupid box to just stay outputting 1080i all the time but no matter how many times I change it (whether in the setup menu accessed via power / menu OR by using the format button on front panel of cable box) it randomly changes back to 1080p.

Does anybody know a solution for this; ie to have your chosen video output mode stick without sporadically resetting itself to default settings? I have no idea what triggers the reset thus it seems random.
post #4365 of 4769
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerbo View Post

Does anybody know a solution for this; ie to have your chosen video output mode stick without sporadically resetting itself to default settings? I have no idea what triggers the reset thus it seems random.

These boxes have a lot of handshaking issues. The resolution change is most likely happening when you start up your system. I'm assuming you have your cable plugged into an HDMI receiver, in which case plugging the cable box directly into your TV and outputting the audio to your receiver via optical or coaxial should resolve the issue.

Some users here have also reported that incorporating certain HDMI switches into the chain can resolve the issue.
post #4366 of 4769
Thanks for reply. Yes, I have the box connected to the Denon 3311ci AVR. I will try your suggestion of HDMI direct to TV although I'm not happy with this workaround.

Here is a thought: does anybody know how to effectively reset the DCX's default settings? I recall reading in the user manual that the defaults are created at the time when the box is first booted up and connected to the system. I'm wondering if I can somehow "start over" (I don't have anything on my DVR yet so even a reformat would be ok). If I could start over, I would do so by having the DCX direct connected to the TV (Sony Bravia XBR). Perhaps my default settings would re-populate based on the different config and I would get a default of 1080i. This is what happened with my HD TiVo premiere, anyway.

So then, after this I theoretically could reconnect the HDMI out of the DCX back to my AVR. if powering on the system resets the DCX back to default, no prob; 1080i is what I want anyway. Just a thought. (btw, I never turn the DCX box on/off. I keep it always on but I do obviously turn the TV and AVR off).

My problem and that of others is definitely related to the AVR. I know this bc my older gen Bravia doesn't even support 1080p/60 which is what the DCX keeps defaulting to every time the AVR is powered up from a standby state. Thus I know it's getting that from the AVR even tho I've set the AVR video mode to "pass thru" and not do any of it's own video processing.
post #4367 of 4769
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerbo View Post

Thanks for reply. Yes, I have the box connected to the Denon 3311ci AVR. I will try your suggestion of HDMI direct to TV although I'm not happy with this workaround.
HDTV programs are either 720p or 1080i. And HDTV audio is no better than DD5.1, which is carried perfectly well by an optical connection from the DCX to your AVR.

Assuming the Sony Bravia XBR will do a superb job of displaying any "native" source HDTV video you feed it (i.e. 720p or 1080i, just as broadcast) for optimal results you might as well (a) set the DCX to "native", feeding its 720p/1080i HDMI output direct to one of the XBR's HDMI input for video only, (b) feed the optical output of the DCX to the Denon for audio which will always be "native" program audio, e.g. DD5.1. With this single HDMi cable from DCX to HDTV and no AVR in the middle, the "native" setting on the DCX will never be lost no matter whether you leave the DCX on 24/7 and/or power the HDTV on/off.

There is no advantage or purpose in having the DCX up-convert 720p/1080i to 1080p for delivery to the AVR->HDTV. You're better off feeding "native" 720p/1080i to the XBR and letting it handle the display optimizations designed by Sony's engineers.

Note that "HDMI pass-through" enabled on an AVR normally relates to audio received from a source device via HDMI. And if "HDMI pass-through" is enabled, that means the source device can see the HDTV which typically is a device that cannot accept multi-channel audio but can only handle 2-channel stereo. So the HDMI handshake (for audio) that occurs when these devices get powered on when "HDMI pass-through" is enabled would typically force 2-channel audio to be delivered via HDMI from DCX to the AVR (and theoretically get passed through to the downstream device, i.e. the HDTV). And if it's really your AVR that's handling sound to your multi-channel speaker system, you would actually only be receiving 2-channel stereo from DCX to the AVR. You would not be getting DD5.1

In other words, you avoid this by either (a) disabling HDMI pass-through on your AVR, or (b) forcing multi-channel audio out of the DCX via HDMI in its "additional HDMI settings" for audio to disregard what the downstream device says it can accept and just deliver the program audio, or (c) use an optical connection from DCX to the AVR for audio since the DCX will ALWAYS deliver the program audio over optical. Again, program audio for HDTV is no better than DD5.1 which optical->AVR handles perfectly anyway.

Quote:
does anybody know how to effectively reset the DCX's default settings? I recall reading in the user manual that the defaults are created at the time when the box is first booted up and connected to the system.
The HDMI handshake, for audio and video, occurs when the components are powered on. It is the results of that HDMI handshake which tells the DCX what the device at the other end of the HDMI cable can accept for audio and video.

If you have "HDMI pass-through" (which is an audio setting, not a video setting) ENABLED on your AVR, then it is the downstream HDTV (at the end of the second HDMI cable running from AVR to HDTV) which answers the audio-ability question for the DCX, hence 2-channel stereo only. If you have "HDMI pass-through" DISABLED on the AVR, then it is the AVR which answers the audio-ability question for the DCX and you get multi-channel audio from DCX to the AVR... which of course will be identical to what you'd also get from the optical audio connection.


Note that the "HDMI relay" from DCX through AVR and on to HDTV has been problematic for the Motorola DVR's for the past 9 years, ever since HDMI connections were available. The "loss of native" setting is the typical result, if you power the DCX, AVR and HDTV on/off in the "wrong sequence", where the DCX then reverts back to its original default settings (whatever they turn out to be based on the re-performed HDMI handshake). There is no way for you to change those default settings, and they will vary from user to user and are also a function of AVR brand/model and HDTV brand/model.

The most common workaround to avoid the "loss of native" (i.e. your request to have the DCX send out 720p and 1080i as-is) while still relaying HDMI from DCX through AVR, is the "AVR on last, AVR off first" power on/off sequence method. This requires that all three devices get powered off when not in use but with the AVR powered off first, and then get powered on when you want to use them but with the AVR powered on last. This makes the HDTV (relayed via HDMI from the AVR) "invisible" to the DCX so that the HDMI handshake is between DCX and AVR, and multi-channel audio is delivered and "native" video setting is retained. If you leave the DCX powered on all the time, but turn the AVR and HDTV off, you have now interfered with the "workaround" trick (which is really just to try and overcome the HDMI design issue with the DCX). Note that this method frequently works but it really depends on the AVR brand/model. Also, if you have "HDMI pass-through" enabled, and especially if you have "standby HDMI pass-through" enabled (e.g. on the Denon), then even if the AVR is powered off and in standby mode the HDMI relay is 100% active and the HDTV is "visible"... which really is counter-productive.

Alternatively, most people simply accept the "direct HDMI connection from DCX to HDTV" coupled with an optical audio connection from DCX to AVR as the guaranteed 100% foolproof "solution".

It's complicated.
post #4368 of 4769
Well put! It irks me that I can’t use my equipment in the manner intended; but I spent countless frustrating hours over many days before I found previous posts on the subject here. It was such a relief finding out that there were others. That it wasn’t me – it was the DCX. That made it much easier to accept the fact that I was not losing any video or audio quality, realize that I couldn’t control it and move on.
post #4369 of 4769
Mike2000 - I agree with your post.

DSperber - thanks very much for your input. You clearly know what you're talking about and I appreciate the suggestions. I will first try the last on, first off method for my AVR and don't mind turning off the DCX box. I've been in the habit of keeping it on (to keep my remote macros in sync given lack of discrete ON and Off) but I'll figure something out. I'll also experiment with my Denon pass thru settings as I definitely have the standby HDMI pass thru enabled but I never use it so I'll turn off).

If the power sequencing work around does not work (I read in another post that this works well for Yamaha AVRs but not for Denons), then I'll try the optical cable for audio. While I concede all your points about HDMI dd 5.1 being equivalent to optical dd 5.1 with no handshake issues, it would require me to reconfigure my system somewhat and that seems more cumbersome than changing my remote macros for the power sequencing including adding time delays if need be.

If I may, a couple of final questions:
1. Is my assumption correct that there are no discrete On / off commands for the DCX? I haven't researched it.
2. I assume the DCX even when off will wake up to record my scheduled programs. But assuming the box will NOT self power-off after the recording process completes, will this cause any handshake issues or new complications?
3. As I'm typing all this, I can foresee the remote control macro programming process being quite cumbersome (assuming no discrete on / off for the DCX). Maybe I should just suck it up and run the damn optical audio out to AVR and HDMI direct to TV. Am I the only one who "feels like" the audio from the HDMI connection sounds better than that via digital optical? (yes, it is not LPCM coming thru optical, I've verified it is dd 5.1). I have no reason to question DSperber's contention that the two connection methods for audio are identical. I also would not think I have any reason to question the integrity of my Denon 3311ci AVR's ability to process Dolby digital equivalently whether receiving the signal via HDMI vs optical. Perhaps like what Mike2000 was indicating, it's just a control issue with me and I'm just irritated that all this stuff doesn't "play nice" with each other in the way we think they should, so I "imagine" ways to believe that not using all HDMI connections for both audio and video creates a subpar end result...

Thanks again
post #4370 of 4769
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerbo View Post

If the power sequencing work around does not work (I read in another post that this works well for Yamaha AVRs but not for Denons)
I suspect the reason for this may be your mention that you have your "standby HDMI pass-through" enabled, even though you have no reason to. I suspect that setting may be the Denon default and you actually have to disable it if you don't want to make use of it.

If this "standby HDM pass-through" is enabled, then it doesn't make any difference whether the Denon is off or on... the HDMI pass-through will effectively defeat the intended result of "AVR on last, AVR off first". Essentially the AVR is always on, no matter whether you think it's being turned on/off first or last or whatever.

It's certainly worth a try here, to disable "standby HDMI pass-through" and then see if "AVR on last, AVR off first" will preserve your "native" sttings on the DCX. I know that trick worked fine with my Yamaha RX-V863 when I actually had a DCX box, in that "native" WAS preserved. Never needed to reset it (except if I accidentally forgot the power sequence when turning things on or off). I needed to go through the AVR and didn't really have the other option available (of HDMI from DCX to HDTV and optical from DCX to AVR) because my Sony 34XBR960 HDTV only has one HDMI input, so it naturally had to come from the Yamaha in order for me to handle all of my HDMI source devices with my single-HDMI-input XBR960 .

Quote:
then I'll try the optical cable for audio. While I concede all your points about HDMI dd 5.1 being equivalent to optical dd 5.1 with no handshake issues, it would require me to reconfigure my system somewhat
The Yamaha AVR's are very easily configurable using the "manual input" menu. You can configure any input (i.e. a source button on the remote) to specify whether its input uses which of the available HDMI, component, optical, or coax inputs. You can mix and match any way you want and pushing that source device input button on the remote then automatically makes use of whatever inputs you've specified. It's invisible that you're using optical delivery for DD5.1 instead of receiving DD5.1 via HDMI, and the audio results are 100% identical.

Quote:
If I may, a couple of final questions:
1. Is my assumption correct that there are no discrete On / off commands for the DCX? I haven't researched it.
Correct. The Motorola boxes have a simple "power on/off toggle" when you push the power button on either the remote or the face of the unit.

Quote:
2. I assume the DCX even when off will wake up to record my scheduled programs.
Absolutely. If it's off when the scheduled recording time arrives it will power on automatically (with audio in MUTE mode, just in case your sound system happens to be on) and the recording will be performed. The unit will then go back to sleep when the scheduled recording(s) are completed.

Note that if you walk up to the unit when such a timer-initiated wake-up/record is going on and audio is in MUTE, if you push any button on the remote the audio will be un-muted. The box now knows a human is in the vicinity and you may want to watch some other program (live or recorded) while the timer recording is going on. If the foreground tuner happens to have been acquired for the recording you can just push the SWAP button on the remote to flip the background/foreground tuners, which will push the scheduled recording tuner into the background (where it will continue to record) while the other DCX tuner is now available for you in the foreground to do whatever you want. Or, you can simply play a previous recording in the foreground (which doesn't actually use a tuner) while the scheduled recording tuner continues to work unattended in the background.

Also note that in addition to un-muting the audio when you push any button, you've also just deactivated the "automatically go back to sleep" function when that scheduled timer recording completes. Again, the unit knows a human is in the vicinity and watching TV or something, and turning the unit off when the background recording completes would be very annoying.

Quote:
But assuming the box will NOT self power-off after the recording process completes
This is not true, as long as you don't interfere with the automatic process of wake-up for scheduled recording by pushing a remote button during the unattended operation (say a recording scheduled for the middle of the night when you are not in the room using the DVR). It actually WILL self power-off and go back to sleep in this case.

Only if you push a button will (a) audio un-mute, and (b) self power-off at the end of the scheduled recording is disabled.

Quote:
will this cause any handshake issues or new complications?
You mean from the unfortunate HDMI handshake going through the AVR? Again, that's why you should turn off the AVR when not in use, and you should not have "standby HDMI pass-through" enabled on the AVR, just to guarantee no unexpected HDMI handshake complications. Or... just connect the DCX directly to your HDTV (which should also be powered off when not in use) via HDMI and use optical for audio.

Quote:
3. As I'm typing all this, I can foresee the remote control macro programming process being quite cumbersome (assuming no discrete on / off for the DCX).
Well, for some the "toggle power on/off" is a convenience and a discrete on/off (as there is for the Yamaha RX-V963 which actually has two separate buttons on the remote) would be a nuisance (as it is for me). Most ordinary multi-device remotes have a simple device-select collection of buttons, and one POWER button. The theory is that all devices have a power on/off toggle, so I can only program my multi-device remote to be able to power OFF the Yamaha, not to also be able to power it ON (which I thus have to do myself).

Quote:
Maybe I should just suck it up and run the damn optical audio out to AVR and HDMI direct to TV.
I rest my case on this one.

Quote:
Am I the only one who "feels like" the audio from the HDMI connection sounds better than that via digital optical? (yes, it is not LPCM coming thru optical, I've verified it is dd 5.1). I have no reason to question DSperber's contention that the two connection methods for audio are identical.
It is the bitstream-identical DD5.1 (from the TV program) which is being delivered from DCX to the AVR, no matter whether it's going over HDMI or optical.

Note that the "LPCM" audio setting on the DCX (additional HDMI options) is not true multi-channel discrete LPCM (as it IS implemented say on the Oppo BluRay players) sent out over HDMI. In fact, if you choose "LPCM" on the DCX you're forcing 2-channel stereo audio out over HDMI. This isn't what you want, obviously. Just let it send DD5.1 to your Denon and let the decoding occur in the AVR. There is no difference in audio result where this DD decoding occurs, and this is the right way to deliver HDTV multi-channel audio to your sound system... by letting the AVR do the decoding.

And as I mentioned earlier, the "additional HDMI options" only affect HDMI connections. In contrast, digital audio going out over optical is ALWAYS THE ACTUAL DIGITAL AUDIO BITSTREAM IN THE HDTV PROGRAM... whatever it is, DD5.1 or DD2.0. The optical audio path is completely unaffected by the "additional HDMI options" for audio. That's another reason why this is advantageous, since the HDMI-visibility of your HDTV to the DCX can thus never cause the DCX to drop down and deliver only 2-channel stereo over optical (as it can over HDMI).

While your video may definitely look different (i.e. better) on your display when digital HDTV video is delivered via HDMI (which is digital) vs. component video (which is analog, and thus involves probably two conversions when going from the the original digital program content to your HDTV screen first via analog component video and then back to digital for display by your pixel-based HDTV), I can assure you that there is ZERO DIFFERENCE in sound for digital audio from the two different cable delivery methods.

Quote:
I also would not think I have any reason to question the integrity of my Denon 3311ci AVR's ability to process Dolby digital equivalently whether receiving the signal via HDMI vs optical.
This is a fact.
Edited by DSperber - 9/9/12 at 8:22pm
post #4371 of 4769

SO, with the DCX connected to AVR , and it to a projector, all via HDMI, what setting DO you recommend in 'Additional HDMI Settings' of the DCX:   AUTO, LPCM, or PASS THROUGH?     I've been using AUTO, and I think I get 5.1 from it, for I hear sound coming from my surround speakers.

post #4372 of 4769
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerbo View Post

Perhaps like what Mike2000 was indicating, it's just a control issue with me and I'm just irritated that all this stuff doesn't "play nice" with each other in the way we think they should

Jerbo: I feel your pain but Dsperber is so correct it is mind-boggling. Suck it up and finally get a good nights sleep! LOL
post #4373 of 4769
Pardon me for being too lazy to follow all the posts above, but if you are trying to get around the Native bug and not worry about power sequencing, and don't want to run a separate audio cable to the AVR, this is the way I solved the problem about a year ago. Just skip step 4 in the setup (which is unnecessary unless you want to display AVR menus over video on your TV). i.e. you only need to run an HDMI cable from the DX to the TV and another HDMI cable from the TV to the AVR.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gregr View Post

Here's the family room solution I decided on that maximally simplifies operation for my wife (who uses the family room TV more than I do - conversely, I never let her touch the remotes in our home theater ) and is still only minimally annoying to me. I'll document it here for that one other person in the world that has similar concerns.


THE SETUP


1) Connect the DCX HDMI output directly to the TV (in this case a Sony XBR LCD). This ensures that the DCX can be set to Native output mode and NOT lose its setting.


2) Connect an AVR (in this case a Yamaha RX-A1000) HDMI ARC (Audio Return Channel) Output to the TV ARC HDMI input.


3) Enable the ARC in the AVR. This allows HDMI audio from the DCX to be routed back from the TV to the AVR and be automatically selected in the AVR without another cable or using another AVR input. (Set the DCX HDMI audio mode to PASS THROUGH to ensure that Dolby Digital audio is sent from the DCX to the TV to be returned to the AVR via the ARC. AUTO mode also works in my Sony TV - since the TV tells the DCX it wants the Dolby Digital signal, but it might not in other TVs.)


4) Connect the YPbPr and Digital Audio output (I used the coax digital audio output) from the DCX to the AVR. The YPbPr output will carry 1080i and 720p video to the AVR, while the coax Digital Audio output mirrors the digital audio in the HDMI output. (Too bad the DCX doesn't have 2 HDMI outputs, but this will do for this special purpose.)


5) Enable HDMI CEC Control in both the TV and the AVR. This allows the TV remote control to control the AVR (the AVR remote also still works).


BENEFITS


1) The TV remote control Power Button will now turn on and off both the TV and the AVR with one push of the button. (Because of HDMI CEC control)


2) The TV remote control Volume and Mute buttons will now control the AVR volume and mute functions AND automatically turn off the built-in TV speakers. (Because of HDMI CEC control)


1) and 2) make TV operation with the AVR audio system surround sound easy to use for the wife (who never has to touch the complicated-looking AVR remote control).


3) Any time I want to use the AVR on-screen menus and adjustments for the sound fields, etc. I simply select the YPbPr/coax digital audio input in the AVR, which thanks to the HDMI CEC function AUTOMATICALLY switches to the AVR HDMI input on the TV. I can now do audio adjustments using the AVR on-screen menus, while still viewing a slightly degraded analog HD version of the DCX video at the same time (which can be very helpful for context while adjusting audio for movies, sports, etc).


Most of the complex adjustments that require the OSD menus (changes to the definition of a soundfield, or the setup of the parametric equalizer) are independent of the selected input, or are assigned to a Macro (called a scene in the Yamaha AVRs). Therefore it doesn't matter if the changes are made while listening to the coax digital audio or the HDMI digital audio from the DCX.


4) When the soundfield adjustments are done I switch back to the DCX HDMI input on the TV, which automatically switches the AVR input back to the DCX HDMI audio using the ARC from the TV. If I changed the selected sound field or a Macro in 3) while using the coax digital audio, that change (usually just one button) has to be made for the HDMI ARC audio, but that should usually be very quick and simple. It's a small price to pay to keep the things simple for the wife and to not let the DCX lose its Native output setting.


That's about it unless I forgot something. This setup isn't for everyone, just for someone that wants to avoid the Native problem but still wants to use their AVR OSD menus, and still keep TV operation simple for another non-technical user.
post #4374 of 4769
Quote:
Originally Posted by millerwill View Post

SO, with the DCX connected to AVR , and it to a projector, all via HDMI, what setting DO you recommend in 'Additional HDMI Settings' of the DCX:   AUTO, LPCM, or PASS THROUGH?     I've been using AUTO, and I think I get 5.1 from it, for I hear sound coming from my surround speakers.

hdmiaudio.jpg

(a) You don't want "LPCM", because that forces 2-channel stereo to be delivered from the DCX.

(b) If you choose "pass-through", then whatever the program you're tuned to contains that's what will be delivered from DCX out its HDMI connection, to whatever is at the other end of that cable... regardless of whether or not that connected device is capable of handling the program's audio format which will be delivered. If it's a DD5.1 program, and your AVR is at the end of that HDMI cable, that's fine. But if it's your HDTV that's at the end of that HDMI cable, that's not fine since your TV almost certainly requires strictly 2-channel stereo.

(c) If you choose "AUTO" that means the downstream device (AVR or HDTV) will tell the DCX (via HDMI handshake) what kind of audio format it is capable of receiving. This guarantees the DCX will never deliver audio in the wrong format for that downstream device, but will always deliver a format that is compatible with that downstream device, since that is precisely what was agreed to in the HDMI handshake. So if you have your AVR's "HDMI pass-through" DISABLED (so that the HDTV only gets HDMI video and does not participate in the HDMI handshake regarding acceptable audio format), it will be the AVR that answers the question in the HDMI handshake. And since an AVR can obviously accept multi-channel, that's what the DCX will give to the AVR via that HDMI connection. But if you have your AVR's "HDMI pass-through" ENABLED, well now the HDTV is visible for the audio format question and will tell the DCX to deliver 2-channel stereo. So that's what the DCX will deliver, through the AVR and on to the HDTV, only 2-channel stereo... which is obviously NOT what you want arriving at your AVR for your multi-channel multi-speaker sound system.

So, "AUTO" is fine as long as you don't have "HDMI pass-through" enabled on your AVR. Multi-channel (i.e. the program audio, whatever it is) will be delivered from DCX to your AVR since your AVR says "I can accept multi-channel".

Otherwise, "pass-through" will force the program audio to be sent out HDMI, regardless of whether or not any/all downstream devices can accept it. This is actually what always comes out the optical output... the program audio, whatever it is.
post #4375 of 4769
Quote:
Originally Posted by DSperber View Post

Just some additional information...
Actually, I believe that the RNG200N (aka DCX3501) is no longer actually manufactured by Motorola. It's been outsourced to Cisco and Pace, but conceptually it's still a DCX35* unit.
As Maggiefan explained, the real issue here is that the "device" code (needed for the remote in order to know what available set of functional coded IR flashes are recognized by the receiving device, and therefore have to be blasted out for each of the buttons on the remote) for the old DCT/DCH/DCX units (from Motorola) was 01376.
The instructions shown in that post do just that, converting the default "new" device code (which theoretically does not support the 30-second skip function, although we all know it does) implicit in your new remote back to being 01376 (like with your old silver remote, as well as a large number of remotes from Universal Electronics, etc.) so that all of the old programmable EFC function codes can also be installed... including the sought after 00173, which is the 30-second skip.
In other words, all remotes supporting device 01376 blast out the same set of IR flash codes designed for 01376 devices. The 30-second skip EFC 00173 is part of this set of supported codes for 01376 devices. The complete Motorola (or outsourced) family of cable boxes will respond to the 01376 set of IR codes even if the new RNG200N and matching remote is delivered with a different device code set by default. It's just a matter of programming your remote using the instructions above, to make it talk properly to a 01376-compatible device.

Actually no Motorola still makes the DCX3501 just that Comcast puts their branding the box. Similar to how Directv has multiple vendors for their DVRs but are under the HR name. So no Pace and Cisco do not Make any motorola boxes. The RNG stands for Residential Networking Gateway and that is a code word for Comcast's tru2way cable boxes. The DCX3200 and DCX3400 qualify for the RNG name but now are no longer made.
post #4376 of 4769
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikemelinda2000 View Post

..., I've ordered Any Room DVR and mine is not a 3501-M. I would think that it might not be that difficult to make it a 3501-M (perhaps change the M card?)....

Does anyone know if Comcast can make a 3501 into a 3501-M or does it have to be manufactured as a 3501-M?
post #4377 of 4769
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikemelinda2000 View Post

Does anyone know if Comcast can make a 3501 into a 3501-M or does it have to be manufactured as a 3501-M?
Doubtful to impossible, would be my guesses.

The difference in the boxes is not the cablecard (which is what "M-Card" describes). All multi-tuner cable-ready boxes (including Tivo, Ceton TV tuners for PC, HD Homerun Prime boxes from Silicon Dust) have an M-Card in them which supports "multi-tuner", as opposed to an S-Card which supports "single-tuner" (e.g. as you might put into a cablecard-enabled HDTV which only has one tuner).

The difference is that the M-boxes have a MOCA interface on their coax adapters, to support "ethernet over coax" or something like it, over your home's coaxial cable network. In other words box A talks to box B in the "whole home" DVR setup, probably via TCPIP-protocol the same way one PC talks to another PC on your home Ethernet LAN (so that you can share files between PC's, etc.). But since that Ethernet LAN (i.e. CAT5/6 cables) isn't available to the DVR family of boxes but rather only coax cables are run to each box, technology to implement "ethernet over coax" exists.

I have several of these ethernet-over-coax "gizmos" in my own home to deliver Ethernet LAN capability to locations where I could not run an Ethernet cable but already did have an old cable TV coax running to that room. By attaching a pair of these adapters at each end of the coax run you actually convert that coax run to effectively be an Ethernet run. In one case, I have a pair of Gefen adapters (no longer manufactured, but still available) that has a "source" box and a "target" box, delivering up to four 100Mbps Ethernet ports at the "target" location over this particular coax run. And I actually had a second coax leg running from that first "target" location to a second room, where again I required Ethernet capability. This time I bought a similar pair of ethernet-over-coax adapters from Netsys, with either adapter being usable as source or target and both adapters providing two Ethernet jacks. Interestingly, one of the four Ethernet ports on the Gefen "target" device feeds the input of the Netsys adapter that starts the second coax run, kind of like a multi-protocol relay. So it's really gigabit-router -> CAT6 -> Gefen1 -> coax -> Gefen2 -> CAT5 -> Netsys1 -> coax -> Netsys2 -> CAT5 -> PC device.

So I have two pairs of ethernet-over-coax adapters in my own home, providing full 100Mbps Ethernet capability at (a) the end of one 75ohm coax cable run and then (b) at then end of a second "relayed" coax run, both of which would normally have been provided through Ethernet CAT5/6 cable. These boxes can provide Ethernet capability potentially over great distances (e.g. 1000 feet up to 4000 feet, like to another building on the property), and also over RG6/RG59 coax cable.

That's the kind of adapter which is built into these "M" boxes, so that the devices can communicate with each other (like computers) over the coax cable system in your house. The non-M boxes do not have these MOCA adapters on their coax connections, I would guess.
Edited by DSperber - 9/10/12 at 11:28am
post #4378 of 4769
Quote:
Originally Posted by gregr View Post

Pardon me for being too lazy to follow all the posts above, but if you are trying to get around the Native bug and not worry about power sequencing, and don't want to run a separate audio cable to the AVR, this is the way I solved the problem about a year ago. Just skip step 4 in the setup (which is unnecessary unless you want to display AVR menus over video on your TV). i.e. you only need to run an HDMI cable from the DX to the TV and another HDMI cable from the TV to the AVR.

gregr -- interesting post and worth consideration, except -- I am not sure my Bravia XBR3 supports ARC? I bought mine in late 2006 and while I know my Denon AVR DOES support it, I don't recall seeing this feature in my TV manual. I'll do some more research (I'm not home right now), but in the meantime, a quick question: how does this ARC work in terms of the inputs & outputs of the AVR and TV? You obviously run an HDMI connection from cable box to TV, let's say it is HDMI input #6 on the TV. Now my AVR has an HDMI output that I also am running into the TV (HDMI input #7 on the TV -- this is used for my Tivo and BluRay which are both connected via HDMI into my AVR and was formerly used to also carry my cable box HDMI signal prior to this "native bug" issue). So how is the ARC accomplished (if available for my TV)? I need to run ANOTHER HDMI wire between the TV and AVR? How? Would these be additional / separate connections to my TV and AVR (i.e. TV input #8, for example)? Or is the ARC feature already "present" in my HDMI connection going to TV input #7 as described above and I simply need to "enable" the feature from the AVR menu? I am just confused how you would physically wire it. Am I looking for some kind of HDMI OUTPUT jack on the back of my TV (which I'm fairly certain does not exist), or is it simply an HDMI INPUT that is used? Sorry if this seems like a stupid quiestion, I'm just completely unfamiliar with this feature.
post #4379 of 4769
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerbo View Post

gregr -- interesting post and worth consideration, except -- I am not sure my Bravia XBR3 supports ARC? I bought mine in late 2006 and while I know my Denon AVR DOES support it, I don't recall seeing this feature in my TV manual. I'll do some more research (I'm not home right now), but in the meantime, a quick question: how does this ARC work in terms of the inputs & outputs of the AVR and TV? You obviously run an HDMI connection from cable box to TV, let's say it is HDMI input #6 on the TV. Now my AVR has an HDMI output that I also am running into the TV (HDMI input #7 on the TV -- this is used for my Tivo and BluRay which are both connected via HDMI into my AVR and was formerly used to also carry my cable box HDMI signal prior to this "native bug" issue). So how is the ARC accomplished (if available for my TV)? I need to run ANOTHER HDMI wire between the TV and AVR? How? Would these be additional / separate connections to my TV and AVR (i.e. TV input #8, for example)? Or is the ARC feature already "present" in my HDMI connection going to TV input #7 as described above and I simply need to "enable" the feature from the AVR menu? I am just confused how you would physically wire it. Am I looking for some kind of HDMI OUTPUT jack on the back of my TV (which I'm fairly certain does not exist), or is it simply an HDMI INPUT that is used? Sorry if this seems like a stupid quiestion, I'm just completely unfamiliar with this feature.

If your TV supports ARC (2006 XBR I'm not sure, it would be marked ARC on one of the HDMI inputs) you don't need any separate cables. Just one HDMI cable from the AVR HDMI ARC output to the TV's HMDI ARC input, and another HDMI cable from the DVR to any other TV HDMI input. That is it. No separate audio cables, no worrying about which component you turn on or off first or last. You simply enable ARC on the AVR, and enable CEC (Sony calls it Bravia Sync or something like that) on the TV.

Then you use the TV remote on/off switch to turn on/off both the AVR and TV at the same time. The TV AVR HDMI input returns the digital audio coming from the DVR (or any other HDMI source connected directly to the TV) back to the AVR automatically whenever you select the TV input that is connected to the DVR (or other HDMI source other than the AVR).

It sounds a little complicated I guess, but it couldn't be simpler. Just hook up 2 HDMI cables and set the ARC/CEC modes and everything will just work when you select the TV input connected to the DVR. Or select the TV input connected to the AVR when you want to watch Blu-ray or whatever else you connect directly to the AVR.

Native problem solved. And I like it because my wife simply uses the TV remote control to turn everything (TV and AVR) on or off, control the AVR volume, mute, etc. She never has to touch the much more complicated AVR remote control (and almost certainly mess some surround sound settings up).
post #4380 of 4769
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerbo View Post

in the meantime, a quick question: how does this ARC work in terms of the inputs & outputs of the AVR and TV?

Jerbo: As I understand it the ARC simply allows one HDMI to accomplish two things - carry a video signal from the AVR to the TV and an audio signal from the TV to the AVR.

Both solutions to the problem require an HDMI cable between the DCX and the HDTV that we wouldn’t have to run if we were able to use our equipment as it is designed. One solution uses a digital optical cable to deliver audio to the AVR from the DCX and the other solution gets audio from the DCX to the AVR via one HDMI cable from the DCX to the HDTV and then another HDMI cable from the HDTV to the AVR. Your TV has to support ARC to do it though and my guess is that you are the type of guy that would have noticed if one of the TV’s HDMI inputs is so labeled. Assuming it doesn’t, if you have your audio out connection on the TV connected to your AVR, that would work too I think.

GIVE UP! LOL
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: HDTV Recorders
AVS › AVS Forum › HDTV › HDTV Recorders › Official AVS Motorola DCX series HD DVR Topic!