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Official AVS Motorola DCX series HD DVR Topic! - Page 157

post #4681 of 4769
DSperber, thanks for all the great info! smile.gif
post #4682 of 4769
Comcast DCX3501 (RNG200N) HDMI dysfunctional w/ Kuro Pro-101FD

Hello all—

I replaced my DCH3416 for this DCX3501 because I wanted its greater capacity and a generally faster unit. I have the cable box connected to the display with an HDMI cable. My TV is not receiving a signal from the box—at least a picture signal, because an optical cable connects to my receiver. However, conversely, I believe the DVR recognizes the TV because the DVR's display flashes DVI when the TV is turned on.

The component connection gives a signal to the TV. I contacted Comcast and after troubleshooting with me he concluded the box is faulty and should be swapped.

However, I'm concerned that it's some incompatibility with my set, or that there's a particular way I need to configure the two which I haven't figured out.

Is this a known issue with this box? Do y'all have any suggestions before I swap (And I hope to get another DCX3501. I understand they're hard to come by!)?

Thank you
post #4683 of 4769
Can't address your issue directly. We picked up a 3501 6-8 months ago. About 3 months ago it started acting up and wouldn't connect properly to the Comcast system. Connected directly to our Panny plasma w. no problem. They sent out a tech and swapped it out with a diff. box. I'm not there so can't tell you the model we now have.
Bottom line - we had a problem unit. I picked it up myself at there service center, and it appeared to be new.
post #4684 of 4769
Comcast Motorola DCX3400M HD DVR - No User Settings Menu access.

Comcast just installed this HD DVR box, along with three other non-DVR HD boxes (DCH3200's). The 3400 is working except for one thing: I can't access the User Settings Menu to tell the box what input signals my TV will accept and the box is not automatically changing output signals, except for 1080i and 480i. As a result, for example, the box outputs 1080i on all channels, making 720p channels look a bit less crisp. If I manually change the output signal to 720p using the front panel buttons I can see an improvement in the picture on, for example, Fox programming.

I have followed the manual's directions on how to access the User Settings Menu, so that I can make sure the box is set to Native and can tell it that my TV will accept 1080p24, 720p and 480p in addition to the 1080i and 480i the box already will display. I press Standby and then press Menu within the specified two seconds. Nothing happens. I repeated this while simultaneously cycling manually through each output Format, but still can't see the User Settings Menu.

TV is a Panny 65VT30. The box is being fed into a Yamaha RXA1010 through HDMI and then to the Panny also through HDMI.

Anyone else have this problem and been able to resolve it without getting a Comcast tech to come out? Does Comcast have the User Menu access function disabled on this box? That menu is accessible on the other Moto boxes just installed.

Thanks in advance.
post #4685 of 4769
I have the 3400M and a Panny 60PST60 - which is almost as good as your VT series panel.

I can't find any way to set the output to Native, 1080i, 720p, or any other mode. I just plugged in an HDMI cable and ran it to the plasma panel. I use a soundbar for sound as this is located in a small (2nd) home condo. The same 3400M was hooked up to a 8+ y.o. Panny plasma via component because that old panel didn't have HDMI. Seems to me i recall seeing and being able to set these things on our old DVRs. Have had 3400 for a year or so.
post #4686 of 4769
Thanks for your reply Snidely.

If you can get into the 3400's User Settings menu, which I can't seem to do, there are settings in there with which you can allegedly set the box to Native and then tell it all the input signals your TV will accept. Then the box should automatically keep changing its output signal to match the type of signal being sent, including 1080p, 1080i, 720p, etc.

The User Settings Menu screens are shown in the Owner's Manual for the 3400, which Comcast does not give you, but is available on line here:
http://media2.comcast.net/anon.comcastonline2/support/help/faqs/settopboxes/DCX3400_User_Guide.pdf

My problem is that the procedure in the manual for getting into the User Settings Menu is not working on my box. With TV and DVR both turned on and receiving a picture, press the Power Off button on the 3400's front panel and then, within two seconds, press the Menu button on the front panel. Menu should then appear on the TV screen. When I do that, nothing happens.

Maybe Comcast disabled that function on the 3400. But the other three non-DVR HD boxes (3200's) they gave me have working User Settings menus, so it doesn't make sense. Actually, the tech should have insured that the box was outputting all the appropriate signals when he installed the 3400, but he was in a gigantic hurry to get all the work done and get out.

At least you can manually select the 720p Format output on the front panel of the 3400, but it's a pain and shouldn't be necessary.

To be continued.
post #4687 of 4769
Quote:
Originally Posted by BuTal63 View Post

Thanks for your reply Snidely.

If you can get into the 3400's User Settings menu, which I can't seem to do, there are settings in there with which you can allegedly set the box to Native and then tell it all the input signals your TV will accept. Then the box should automatically keep changing its output signal to match the type of signal being sent, including 1080p, 1080i, 720p, etc.

The User Settings Menu screens are shown in the Owner's Manual for the 3400, which Comcast does not give you, but is available on line here:
http://media2.comcast.net/anon.comcastonline2/support/help/faqs/settopboxes/DCX3400_User_Guide.pdf

My problem is that the procedure in the manual for getting into the User Settings Menu is not working on my box. With TV and DVR both turned on and receiving a picture, press the Power Off button on the 3400's front panel and then, within two seconds, press the Menu button on the front panel. Menu should then appear on the TV screen. When I do that, nothing happens.

Maybe Comcast disabled that function on the 3400. But the other three non-DVR HD boxes (3200's) they gave me have working User Settings menus, so it doesn't make sense. Actually, the tech should have insured that the box was outputting all the appropriate signals when he installed the 3400, but he was in a gigantic hurry to get all the work done and get out.

At least you can manually select the 720p Format output on the front panel of the 3400, but it's a pain and shouldn't be necessary.

To be continued.

I had forgotten about access to that internal menu. Comcast has updated one part - it now has usable CC that can be accessed from the main menu.
I'll get back to you tomorrow w. my take. Breaking Bad starts in 20 min.
post #4688 of 4769
The test on the 3400M was made on Comcast in Oakland.

Brought up the menu. Unlike older boxes which gave you several pages of readings and info. As I recall, you had to press buttons on the box, not the remote to get the menu to appear on the older boxes. With this, even the remote worked to do that.
Anyway - was able to scroll thru diff. settings: 480i, 480p, 720P, 1080i, and NATIVE. Can't recall if 1080p was an option. When it first came on. it read 1080i. I had never changed anything on this box. (This was my 3rd 3400M. Previous ones all had the famous Black Screen Recording syndrome. This one did, also, until the OS upgrade a few months ago. The main obvious feature was adding usability of being able to set Closed Captioning via the main menu.
I changed the setting from 1080i to Native. Turned screen on and off. While on tuned to ABC and ESPN - which I believe both operate at 720P. Then did menu - and setting was still "Native". To change choices you use the left/right arrow buttons on the remote.
Let me know if you want me to check anything further.

I assume "Native" simple passes thru whatever is coming in - be it 480, 1080i, or 720p.
post #4689 of 4769
Quote:
Originally Posted by BuTal63 View Post

Comcast Motorola DCX3400M HD DVR - No User Settings Menu access.

I press Standby and then press Menu within the specified two seconds. Nothing happens.

I'm curious. Have you tried it using the remote rather than the front panel? That is how I have always done it, although I don't think it should make a difference. Make sure you are giving the menu enough time to display. Sometimes there is a little delay before it appears.

Once you get to the menu, since you have the 3400 connected to your receiver it will be interesting to see if the 3400 will hold the native setting. If not there are a lot of posts on here about that.
post #4690 of 4769
Quote:
Originally Posted by snidely View Post

I had forgotten about access to that internal menu. Comcast has updated one part - it now has usable CC that can be accessed from the main menu.
I'll get back to you tomorrow w. my take. Breaking Bad starts in 20 min.

Hope you enjoyed the last episode. I was busy watching the Eagles/Denver game on the DCX3400, my first HD TV recording ever. Beautful picture but, unfortunately, as many times as I played the game back, the final score was the same - ugh! biggrin.gif

As for my menu access and Format issues above SUCCESS!

A Comcast rep. told me that after hitting the Power button you had to quickly press the Menu button several times, not just once. It worked and the User Settings menu became available. I saw on the Main Menu that my box was set to HDMI/1080i and knew that line had to changed to HDMI/Native. But when I selected that line and clicked on it the first time, it resulted in no picture. After a couple of seconds I panicked of course and prayed I could blindly click back out of it - which worked. Later I went back in and gave it more time. After about 15 seconds of blank screen the options appeared and I selected Native. That allowed me to select another line in the Main Menu where I could check off all the Inputs my TV accepts.

After doing this, the DCX3400 now automatically cycles to the proper Output Format for the signal being sent, for example 1080i, 720p etc.

I did see several CC options in the User Settings Menu, but didn't play with them.

EDIT: Sorry guys, in the time it took me between phone calls to write this and post it you posted yours and I didn't see them first. Will read them now.
Edited by BuTal63 - 10/1/13 at 10:42am
post #4691 of 4769
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikemelinda2000 View Post

I'm curious. Have you tried it using the remote rather than the front panel? That is how I have always done it, although I don't think it should make a difference. Make sure you are giving the menu enough time to display. Sometimes there is a little delay before it appears.

Once you get to the menu, since you have the 3400 connected to your receiver it will be interesting to see if the 3400 will hold the native setting. If not there are a lot of posts on here about that.

Unlike the older boxes where you had to use the buttons on the box, not the remote, this seems to be opposite - you have to use the remote.
I should have mentioned in my post, above, that the connection between my 3400M and the Panny Plasma model ST60 is by HDMI. The panel is connected to a JBL soundbar via optical.
post #4692 of 4769
Thanks for the replies and the help guys.

I agree with all you said. For example, the remote buttons do work to access the menu and navigate in it, and it sure does take a long time for the blank screen to become an options screen. Plenty of time to panic.
post #4693 of 4769
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikemelinda2000 View Post

I'm curious. Have you tried it using the remote rather than the front panel? That is how I have always done it, although I don't think it should make a difference. Make sure you are giving the menu enough time to display. Sometimes there is a little delay before it appears.

Once you get to the menu, since you have the 3400 connected to your receiver it will be interesting to see if the 3400 will hold the native setting. If not there are a lot of posts on here about that.

Will check on whether it saved the settings later tonight. Thanks.
post #4694 of 4769
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikemelinda2000 View Post

I'm curious. Have you tried it using the remote rather than the front panel? That is how I have always done it, although I don't think it should make a difference. Make sure you are giving the menu enough time to display. Sometimes there is a little delay before it appears.

Once you get to the menu, since you have the 3400 connected to your receiver it will be interesting to see if the 3400 will hold the native setting. If not there are a lot of posts on here about that.

Checked last night and again today and the settings have been saved, so far. Will post later if they don't.

One more thing I forgot to mention. Some have said they couldn't adjust the panel brightness - no settings for it in some versions of the User Menu. This one, thank goodness, has the brightness settings option and I reduced the brightness to the minimum. Before that, it was so bright it was very distracting.

Thanks again.
post #4695 of 4769
If it were going to revert to the default settings rather than your settings it would do it when you were powering your system off and/or on so it looks like you will be OK.
post #4696 of 4769
I've turned the 3400 box off (which I rarely do) and on a couple times over past couple days. Setting to "Native" has stuck for me. I'm annoyed with myself that I didn't set the 3400 to Native long ago. I'm not sure how the default 1080i setting affected pic quality on ABC ESPN (others?) that operate at 720p. Maybe I'll play with the setting this weekend and see.
post #4697 of 4769
Quote:
Originally Posted by snidely View Post

I've turned the 3400 box off (which I rarely do) and on a couple times over past couple days. Setting to "Native" has stuck for me. I'm annoyed with myself that I didn't set the 3400 to Native long ago. I'm not sure how the default 1080i setting affected pic quality on ABC ESPN (others?) that operate at 720p. Maybe I'll play with the setting this weekend and see.
If your HDTV is a 1080p model, then you're actually seeing the original 720p source program upconverted AND INTERLACED to 1080i by the DCX box, and then delivered to your HDTV as this faux-1080i which must then be processed/de-interlaced for display at your HDTV's native 1080p.

This truly can look awful,with "ragged" jumpy un-smoothe motion, especially if you are watching a tennis match or other fast moving ball-based sporting event or hockey.

Best is always "native", and let the downstream display device or AVR/processor handle all upconverts... JUST ONE TIME. And 720p->1080p also avoids the unnecessary and extremely detrimental two interlace->de-interlace conversions.

Now for a WONDERFUL result, send "native" 720p/1080i HDMI output from your DVR to the HDMI input of an Oppo BDP-103/105, with the Oppo then "cleaning up" and upconverting to 1080p. The Oppo's HDMI 1080p output then goes either (a) directly to your HDTV as 1080p source, or (b) through your AVR and then on to your HDTV as 1080p source. The Oppo does a SUPERB job of upconverting anything to 1080p, while also "cleaning up" lesser quality source content. And delivering this excellent 1080p content to your HDTV will look startlingly good.
post #4698 of 4769
Quote:
Originally Posted by snidely View Post

I've turned the 3400 box off (which I rarely do) and on a couple times over past couple days. Setting to "Native" has stuck for me. I'm annoyed with myself that I didn't set the 3400 to Native long ago. I'm not sure how the default 1080i setting affected pic quality on ABC ESPN (others?) that operate at 720p. Maybe I'll play with the setting this weekend and see.

It is not turning the 3400 on and off that messes things up, it is powering the TV and AV receiver on and off that messed up the 3400 user settings. Supposed this glitch was fixed in the newest software but ti didn't work for me.
post #4699 of 4769
Quote:
Originally Posted by DSperber View Post

If your HDTV is a 1080p model, then you're actually seeing the original 720p source program upconverted AND INTERLACED to 1080i by the DCX box, and then delivered to your HDTV as this faux-1080i which must then be processed/de-interlaced for display at your HDTV's native 1080p.

This truly can look awful,with "ragged" jumpy un-smoothe motion, especially if you are watching a tennis match or other fast moving ball-based sporting event or hockey.

Best is always "native", and let the downstream display device or AVR/processor handle all upconverts... JUST ONE TIME. And 720p->1080p also avoids the unnecessary and extremely detrimental two interlace->de-interlace conversions.


Now for a WONDERFUL result, send "native" 720p/1080i HDMI output from your DVR to the HDMI input of an Oppo BDP-103/105, with the Oppo then "cleaning up" and upconverting to 1080p. The Oppo's HDMI 1080p output then goes either (a) directly to your HDTV as 1080p source, or (b) through your AVR and then on to your HDTV as 1080p source. The Oppo does a SUPERB job of upconverting anything to 1080p, while also "cleaning up" lesser quality source content. And delivering this excellent 1080p content to your HDTV will look startlingly good.


Exactly. Very well stated.

I first noticed the 3400 was not changing output formats automatically when I was on a 720p Fox football game and the box was sending 1080i. Up til now I didn't know much about these matters and the picture looked very good on the 65VT30, through the Yammy 1010 - no artifacts, motion problems, etc. But it just was not quite the same as another game on a 1080i station. The picture was not as vibrant, sharp, as colorfully rich, or however you want to describe it.

When I manually switched the output to 720p the picture popped - or at least it popped as much as a picture will pop on a plasma panel. Now that the 3400 is set to Native, all the channels with decent signals and source material look equally "vibrant."
post #4700 of 4769
Quote:
Originally Posted by DSperber View Post

If your HDTV is a 1080p model, then you're actually seeing the original 720p source program upconverted AND INTERLACED to 1080i by the DCX box, and then delivered to your HDTV as this faux-1080i which must then be processed/de-interlaced for display at your HDTV's native 1080p.

This truly can look awful,with "ragged" jumpy un-smoothe motion, especially if you are watching a tennis match or other fast moving ball-based sporting event or hockey.

Best is always "native", and let the downstream display device or AVR/processor handle all upconverts... JUST ONE TIME. And 720p->1080p also avoids the unnecessary and extremely detrimental two interlace->de-interlace conversions.

Now for a WONDERFUL result, send "native" 720p/1080i HDMI output from your DVR to the HDMI input of an Oppo BDP-103/105, with the Oppo then "cleaning up" and upconverting to 1080p. The Oppo's HDMI 1080p output then goes either (a) directly to your HDTV as 1080p source, or (b) through your AVR and then on to your HDTV as 1080p source. The Oppo does a SUPERB job of upconverting anything to 1080p, while also "cleaning up" lesser quality source content. And delivering this excellent 1080p content to your HDTV will look startlingly good.

DSperber,

I just got an Oppo 105 and am trying to do exactly what you describe with my Comcast DCX 3501...but when in native mode, whenever I change channels to a channel with a different resolution, I get either a gray, black, green, or an oddly vertical striped screen and the Oppo locks up until I reboot it. If I fix the DCX to 1080i, it's hit-or-miss should I change to a SD channel. I get a flash of odd video noise and then either one of the screens I've described, or sometimes the channel will appear normally. If I switch between 1080i and 720p channels all works fine. I've done resets, changed cables, tried the second HDMI-In, got the most recent Oppo firmware, and nothing helps. If I'm watching in fixed 1080i mode and press the "Format" button, I usually get a screen that is a series of vertical narrow green and black alternating stripes and the Oppo locks up. Looks like any change of resolution, whether via the "Format" button, or changing channels, is somehow not being accepted by the Oppo. I've posted about this in the Oppo owners thread, but no solutions. I'll be calling Oppo tomorrow. I'm concerned it's NOT an HDMI problem, but an issue with my Oppo hardware. I don't have another box to try with the Oppo. I can still exchange or return it if necessary. Any ideas? (Native mode works fine with the DCX directly connected to my TV.)

Thanks!
Edited by paul54 - 10/17/13 at 8:30pm
post #4701 of 4769
Well, I'm certainly sorry to hear about your experience. Certainly sounds unusual and definitely unexpected. I'm certainly interested in what your call to Oppo resulted in.

If you've upgraded to the latest firmware in your 105, I think you've clearly done whatever you yourself can do. Aside from this report from you, nobody else has made any remarks (in the Oppos 103 owner's thread anyway) about any similar experience as yours.

I would certainly expect there to be some type of brief blackout onscreen when the DCX box changes its output resolution, while the connected devices participate in a new HDMI handshake. But in 1-3 seconds that should all be over and the picture should clearly return to the screen in perfect condition at the new resolution. This is of course how it SHOULD behave.

So... I don't know what to say about your particular issue. I'm sure Oppo will be equally surprised.

In the meantime, going from the automatic "native" approach to the alternative "manual" approach (using the FORMAT button the panel of the DCX) as you've described seems to mitigate the problem may be your only solution/workaround. Again, if best-possible image on your HDTV is the goal, you absolutely want to feed 720p programs to the 103 as 720p, and 1080i programs to the 103 as 1080i (and even 480i SD programs as 480i SD). However you make that happen that will give you the best image possible on your screen.
post #4702 of 4769
Quote:
Originally Posted by DSperber View Post

Well, I'm certainly sorry to hear about your experience. Certainly sounds unusual and definitely unexpected. I'm certainly interested in what your call to Oppo resulted in.

If you've upgraded to the latest firmware in your 105, I think you've clearly done whatever you yourself can do. Aside from this report from you, nobody else has made any remarks (in the Oppos 103 owner's thread anyway) about any similar experience as yours.

I would certainly expect there to be some type of brief blackout onscreen when the DCX box changes its output resolution, while the connected devices participate in a new HDMI handshake. But in 1-3 seconds that should all be over and the picture should clearly return to the screen in perfect condition at the new resolution. This is of course how it SHOULD behave.

So... I don't know what to say about your particular issue. I'm sure Oppo will be equally surprised.

In the meantime, going from the automatic "native" approach to the alternative "manual" approach (using the FORMAT button the panel of the DCX) as you've described seems to mitigate the problem may be your only solution/workaround. Again, if best-possible image on your HDTV is the goal, you absolutely want to feed 720p programs to the 103 as 720p, and 1080i programs to the 103 as 1080i (and even 480i SD programs as 480i SD). However you make that happen that will give you the best image possible on your screen.

Thanks for the response. Maybe I wasn't clear, but using the "Format" button causes the same problems as changing resolutions by changing channels.

In any case, Oppo said they HAD heard of or seen this problem and had been working on it for a while. I tried a different cable box (an older Motorola--DCH3416) just for grins, and the handshake on resolution changes was better, but it has no native mode, and frankly, the image didn't look nearly as good as the DCX doing all its own upscaling to a 1080p output. Forsaking the Oppo doing upscaling, and having the DCX do it, gives me (and the family, since this is family-room, and not man-cave equipment) ease of use and no audio sync issues, and the additional Oppo image processing, which I like. I guess I'll just hold on in that mode until a firmware fix or a new STB comes out. I don't exactly have a high-end TV, so I'm good for now.
post #4703 of 4769
Quote:
Originally Posted by paul54 View Post

Thanks for the response. Maybe I wasn't clear, but using the "Format" button causes the same problems as changing resolutions by changing channels.
Sorry for my confusion. I saw your remark about changing between 720p and 1080i was "working fine" and misinterpreted. Apparently that was your using either the720p or 1080i "fixed resolution output", while I thought you were saying if you manually changed the output resolution with FORMAT that it was "working fine".

Anyway, you've now clarified things fo rme.

Quote:
In any case, Oppo said they HAD heard of or seen this problem and had been working on it for a while. I tried a different cable box (an older Motorola--DCH3416) just for grins, and the handshake on resolution changes was better, but it has no native mode, and frankly, the image didn't look nearly as good as the DCX doing all its own upscaling to a 1080p output. Forsaking the Oppo doing upscaling, and having the DCX do it, gives me (and the family, since this is family-room, and not man-cave equipment) ease of use and no audio sync issues, and the additional Oppo image processing, which I like. I guess I'll just hold on in that mode until a firmware fix or a new STB comes out. I don't exactly have a high-end TV, so I'm good for now.
Are you going directly from 105 to your HDTV, with no AVR in the middle? What is your brand/model HDTV? Given that you have the same image anomalies (from HDMI handshake due to resolution changes) no matter DCX or DCH, and no matter "native" or FORMAT, it seems like a compatibility issue between the105 and your HDTV might be the issue.

I've seen HDMI compatibility issues between my 103 and an external headphone processor fed with decoded-to-LPCM via HDMI. The headphone processor has an HDMI-passthrough to send on video to a connected HDTV, but no video was making it to the HDTV connected on the output side of the headphone processor. Eventually I tried a different BluRay player from Samsung, and now sure enough the video from the player/HDMI got successfully passed through to the HDTV on the output side of the headphone processor.

Bottom line: though better than it once was, HDMI handshakes (and resulting performance) involving three or more devices and HDMI-relay is certainly not as "stable" as a 1-cable direct HDMI connection between just two devices.

I understand your current decision to just let the DCX to the upconvert to 1080p and then let the 105 do "cleanup", if that produces an excellent picture result and also avoids all the nuisances you've described. Family approvals are very important.
post #4704 of 4769
Quote:
Originally Posted by DSperber View Post

Sorry for my confusion. I saw your remark about changing between 720p and 1080i was "working fine" and misinterpreted. Apparently that was your using either the720p or 1080i "fixed resolution output", while I thought you were saying if you manually changed the output resolution with FORMAT that it was "working fine".

Anyway, you've now clarified things fo rme.
Are you going directly from 105 to your HDTV, with no AVR in the middle? What is your brand/model HDTV? Given that you have the same image anomalies (from HDMI handshake due to resolution changes) no matter DCX or DCH, and no matter "native" or FORMAT, it seems like a compatibility issue between the105 and your HDTV might be the issue.

I've seen HDMI compatibility issues between my 103 and an external headphone processor fed with decoded-to-LPCM via HDMI. The headphone processor has an HDMI-passthrough to send on video to a connected HDTV, but no video was making it to the HDTV connected on the output side of the headphone processor. Eventually I tried a different BluRay player from Samsung, and now sure enough the video from the player/HDMI got successfully passed through to the HDTV on the output side of the headphone processor.

Bottom line: though better than it once was, HDMI handshakes (and resulting performance) involving three or more devices and HDMI-relay is certainly not as "stable" as a 1-cable direct HDMI connection between just two devices.

I understand your current decision to just let the DCX to the upconvert to 1080p and then let the 105 do "cleanup", if that produces an excellent picture result and also avoids all the nuisances you've described. Family approvals are very important.

My set-up is DCX HDMI to 105 to nearly brand new Vizio M601d via HDMI using the Vizio's ARC-compatible HDMI input (there are others, but I want to use ARC for Vizio's internal streaming applications). I would not have thought that the "other end of the chain" (the TV) would impact the handshaking between the first and middle devices. To enable the ARC, I have CEC enabled on the TV and Oppo. I'm an old analog guy, so the Oppo itself is the closest thing I have to an AVR. The Oppo's dedicated stereo outs go to my plain old stereo pre-amp and amp…

But, and again I probably wasn't clear on this, the DCH-Oppo combo was handshaking much better, and I could change resolutions on it without the screen anomalies; the odd thing was there were problems accessing the menu on the DCH. Strange. Could definitely see a difference in PQ with that box though (for the worse).

Any suggestions on how to determine whether the TV-to-105 connection is the culprit? Disconnect the HDMI cable going to the TV then change DCX channel/resolution, and reconnect and see what's happened? Or same, but turn off the TV instead of disconnecting the HDMI connection to the 105? I'll also try to kill the ARC/CEC and se if that changes anything.

Thanks for your input (no pun)!


EDIT: Looks like you were right. It's the TV! If I unplug the 105 to TV HDMI cable from the TV, and then change the resolution on the DCX, then reconnect the cable to the TV, the picture is fine. Tried several times and appears repeatable. Tried killing CEC but no change. VERY interesting. I'll call Oppo Monday and provide this "clue." Doesn't really help me much, but it's nice to know what's going on. Thanks again for pointing me in that direction!
Edited by paul54 - 10/18/13 at 8:04pm
post #4705 of 4769
Well, every time you add another device back into the HDMI relay chain, there is a brand new handshake through all devices all over again. With the DCX now set at some fixed resolution, and the 105 seeing that, there is no "change of resolutions" at that moment with the TV in a 3-device relay. There is simply a fixed resolution, and a third device now added. The resolution change occurred back without the TV connected, so we don't actually see what happened during that change (other than when the TV is connected we know we see the video anomalies when it all settles down).

So after you complete the DCX resolution change without the TV connected and then re-connect the TV, the new HDMI handshake with all 3 devices alive is simply a fixed resolution handshake for a display device being activated. There is no resolution being changed with the 3 devices now active. And that appears to be going fine (as it also really should have when doing the resolution change with all 3 devices connected).

So even though the 105->Vizio resolution is always 1080p, and you'd think the only re-negotiation is between the DCX and 105 when you change resolutions on the DCX, somehow the presence of the Vizio seems to be bothering the 105 during an actual DCX-provided input resolution change when the Vizio is connected. Interesting.

Regarding using the ARC-capable input, I believe the 105 requires an HDMI 1.4 cable is required (which the included HDMI cable is). Also, does the Vizio have streaming apps different from the streaming apps on the 105? Why not just use the 105 for streaming and avoid the need for ARC if the same apps are on the 105?

Have you tried other non-ARC HDMI ports on the Vizio in your matrix of connection permutations to see if any of them solves the DCX-resolution-change problem?
post #4706 of 4769
Quote:
Originally Posted by DSperber View Post

Well, every time you add another device back into the HDMI relay chain, there is a brand new handshake through all devices all over again. With the DCX now set at some fixed resolution, and the 105 seeing that, there is no "change of resolutions" at that moment with the TV in a 3-device relay. There is simply a fixed resolution, and a third device now added. The resolution change occurred back without the TV connected, so we don't actually see what happened during that change (other than when the TV is connected we know we see the video anomalies when it all settles down).

So after you complete the DCX resolution change without the TV connected and then re-connect the TV, the new HDMI handshake with all 3 devices alive is simply a fixed resolution handshake for a display device being activated. There is no resolution being changed with the 3 devices now active. And that appears to be going fine (as it also really should have when doing the resolution change with all 3 devices connected).

So even though the 105->Vizio resolution is always 1080p, and you'd think the only re-negotiation is between the DCX and 105 when you change resolutions on the DCX, somehow the presence of the Vizio seems to be bothering the 105 during an actual DCX-provided input resolution change when the Vizio is connected. Interesting.

Regarding using the ARC-capable input, I believe the 105 requires an HDMI 1.4 cable is required (which the included HDMI cable is). Also, does the Vizio have streaming apps different from the streaming apps on the 105? Why not just use the 105 for streaming and avoid the need for ARC if the same apps are on the 105?

Have you tried other non-ARC HDMI ports on the Vizio in your matrix of connection permutations to see if any of them solves the DCX-resolution-change problem?

Yes, I tried other HDMI ports on the Vizio as well as turning of ARC/CEC to no avail. Going to experiment with cables next. I'm fairly sure all I have are 1.4, but I'm going move some around and see what happens. The main source that I would use from the Vizio is Amazon Prime. My kids watch some programming that's available there. Netflix is the main thing, and that's on both. But It doesn't look like ARC is the culprit anyway.

I'll continue my experimenting. Thanks again for all your help!

MORE EXPERIMENTATION: In "Source Direct" mode on the Oppo, the handshaking is slow and there's a lot of video noise on screen, but it works and I could leave the DCX in native mode. BUT in source direct, I have no video processing at all available in the 105. Oh well.

UPDATE: everything works fine (DCX native mode) if I use the Oppo's second HDMI output. But then I can't use its QDEO video processing which is only on the main HDMI out.

FINALLY, a solution: "Dr. HDMI" inserted between DCX and Oppo. Able to use native mode and any feature or setting of the Oppo I want without ill-effects!
Edited by paul54 - 10/22/13 at 2:55pm
post #4707 of 4769
I have been living in a house without my own DVR but 2 members have the Motorola 6412 (I believe). One of them no longer needed theirs so I inherited it and before I installed it I went down to the Comcast office to exchange it for the latest and greatest DVR. They gave me DCX3501/E385/012/500 and I went home and set it up without any hassle and was greeted with the typical motorola UI which I was used to from owning a Motorola DVR years ago. My question and or complaint is this:

Are you telling me comcast and Motorola still aren't using a UI that utilizes the whole 16x9 screen? Is there any chance they will in the near future? I mean they can spend the money to develop caller ID and allow you to purchase from the HSN through the DVR but they can't be bothered to have HD menus? I'm afraid they're going to use the extra space on the sides of a 16x9 screen for ads, that would suck.

ZZ
post #4708 of 4769
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZeggyZon View Post

I have been living in a house without my own DVR but 2 members have the Motorola 6412 (I believe). One of them no longer needed theirs so I inherited it and before I installed it I went down to the Comcast office to exchange it for the latest and greatest DVR. They gave me DCX3501/E385/012/500 and I went home and set it up without any hassle and was greeted with the typical motorola UI which I was used to from owning a Motorola DVR years ago. My question and or complaint is this:Are you telling me comcast and Motorola still aren't using a UI that utilizes the whole 16x9 screen? Is there any chance they will in the near future? I mean they can spend the money to develop caller ID and allow you to purchase from the HSN through the DVR but they can't be bothered to have HD menus? I'm afraid they're going to use the extra space on the sides of a 16x9 screen for ads, that would suck.ZZ

The next generation 'X1' systems appear to use the whole screen based on the screenshots, but I think they 're only available in select markets now (they have them in my area, but I have not upgraded).
post #4709 of 4769
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vampidemic View Post

The next generation 'X1' systems appear to use the whole screen based on the screenshots, but I think they 're only available in select markets now (they have them in my area, but I have not upgraded).

I did a little research into this X1 platform and its pretty clear that is where their main focus is so getting any upgrades to any DVR that isn't X1 is very unlikely to happen

ZZ
post #4710 of 4769
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZeggyZon View Post

I did a little research into this X1 platform and its pretty clear that is where their main focus is so getting any upgrades to any DVR that isn't X1 is very unlikely to happen

ZZ
And, if you look at the X1 thread on this forum, you'll see that people are having many, many problems with this unit. I'm all for a better UI, but I'm waiting until the X1 can record and play back reliably.
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