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Avr Faq - Page 8

post #211 of 408
I've started looking at an AVR upgrade for multiple HDMI inputs, and haven't yet seen any mention of automatic sensing and switching across active inputs? I ask because I'm also looking at the OPPO HM-31 HDMI switcher which can sense an "always on" input (for example, cable/sat receiver) and then automatically switch to another input if it is switched on (for instance, a BD player). I've only begun looking at these very helpful comparison threads, and haven't dug into any specific owner threads. Do some AVRs have this automatic switching capability?
post #212 of 408
Thread Starter 
Not that I have heard of. You can always buy a Harmony or similar remote to simplify switching.
post #213 of 408
So in reading this, I get the impression that blue ray 5.1 dolby digital is processed at a higher bit rate than standard dvd, thereby giving me better audio without having to use the lpcm track? I don't know what the difference between the 5.1 lpcm compared to 5.1 dolby digital is as my receiver stopped playing multichannel pcm. I am trying to console myself, so I would like to believe there is not much difference between blue ray lpcm and blue ray dolby digital!
post #214 of 408
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brewery View Post

So in reading this, I get the impression that blue ray 5.1 dolby digital is processed at a higher bit rate than standard dvd, thereby giving me better audio without having to use the lpcm track? I don't know what the difference between the 5.1 lpcm compared to 5.1 dolby digital is as my receiver stopped playing multichannel pcm. I am trying to console myself, so I would like to believe there is not much difference between blue ray lpcm and blue ray dolby digital!

There certainly is a difference, DD is lossy and HD audio is lossless.
Now whether your ears can hear the difference and/or your equipment can reveal the difference, only you can say.
post #215 of 408
Thread Starter 
High rate DD (640 kbs) from Blu-ray is excellent according to the article I provided a link to. Did you see the link ?
post #216 of 408
Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelJHuman View Post

High rate DD (640 kbs) from Blu-ray is excellent according to the article I provided a link to. Did you see the link ?

K, now I saw the link and want to thank you! Forget that I feel like a dumbass. I don't know why I didn't realize dd had upgraded as well, but I did, my ears told me, I just didn't listen. On the back of Blueray movies it just says dolby digital 5.1, like any dvd, I guess this is what threw me. So, once again thank you, a great fountain of information!
post #217 of 408
Thread Starter 
You are welcome.
post #218 of 408
I was just reviewing the FAQ, and this caught my eye.
Quote:


What are technologies like YPAO, Audyssey and MCACC? (auto setup and room calibration technologies) ?

The other purpose is to set the AVR's equalization settings. These are supposed to help compensate for uneven frequency response in rooms.

If you are not into making manual adjustments, it's suggested you run the setup as specified in the manual. If you are happy with the results, you are good to go.

These technologies hold a lot of promise, but they are not perfect by any means. They do offer a good starting point, though. You can make adjustments as needed. You may be able to turn off the equalization settings as needed.

I'm not sure how YPAO compares to Audyssey and MCACC, so I will only comment on Audyssey & MCACC. I don't want to get into any subjective opinions about which is better for auto-calibration of the speakers & environement. Both go beyond simple room EQ using up to hundreds of filters that operate in the time domain to address environmental audio reflections, whereas a simple parametric EQ cannot do this. This is a good thing. But unfortunately, you can NOT use Audyssey as a starting point and tweak the EQ on the receiver from there. You actually have to turn off Audyssey (which loses its hundreds of FIR filters) and switch to a manual mode to tweak the EQ, which is just a basic 5 band (up to 9 band on some systems) equalizer to manually tweak it, which is a very rough likeness of the Audyssey curve at best, and provides no correction in the time domain. This is a far cry from what Audyssey provides in Audyssey mode using its FIR filters (which doesn't allow manual EQ tweaks.) MCACC on the other hand lets you make EQ tweaks without disabling your MCACC functionality. And you can save up to 6 MCACC presets. Manual tweaks simply work in conjunction with MCACC rather than replacing it, as is the consequence on the Audyssey based systems. I detailed the difference regarding the consequences of trying to use a custom EQ with Audyssey vs MCACC:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...9#post15252779

I think this is important and worth pointing out this factual operational difference, as once I found this out, I realized MCACC was a better choice for me. I want my cake and eat it, too.
post #219 of 408
Thread Starter 
I remember reading something about how Audyssey could not be manually tweaked. I will have to look at revising that section, thanks.
post #220 of 408
Quote:
Originally Posted by RexCarson View Post

I was just reviewing the FAQ, and this caught my eye.
I'm not sure how YPAO compares to Audyssey and MCACC.........
I think this is important and worth pointing out this factual operational difference, as once I found this out, I realized MCACC was a better choice for me. I want my cake and eat it, too.

YPAO can also be tweaked and EQ'd after the fact, like MCACC.
But from what I've read YPAO is the weakest of the three for audio correction. Being a Yamaha AVR owner myself I can attest to YPAO's inaccuracies and false settings.
post #221 of 408
hello! new here and looking for help assembling my home theater system. i have a panasonic 2000 projector and intend using only my ps3 and dish network dvr for hdmi inputs. am looking for an avr at around $1000 which will let me use all the latest audio formats without interfering with the video performance. also, since i have recently updated the firmware on my ps3 (version 2.53), does the avr need to upconvert my audio at all or does the ps3 still not adequately decode all the new audio formats and i'll need the avr to decode for me? please help, if only by pointing me out the appropriate threads on such discussions.
thanks!
post #222 of 408
Thread Starter 
This is best asked outside this thread whose main purpose is to host the FAQ and questions on it. You will get more answers by posting a new thread with your questions.
post #223 of 408
thanks, will try another thread!
post #224 of 408
Hopefully this is relevant here as it's a general question.

I'm putting together--actually upgrading-a HT system and have just sort of automatically followed the track to AV receivers. But now I'm asking myself why?

I understand it's great to be able to use HDMI and reduce cable clutter--that has X value depending on your system--how many devices, how complicated, etc.

But assuming you have a relatively 'state of the art' upscaling TV, and relatively state of the art upscaling HD player, and a universal remote of some sort, what's that advantage of an AV receiver over a 'regular' audio-only one?

Right now I run video from the blu-ray and cable box directly to the TV via HDMI, and their respective audios to my receiver via coax and optical. Do I 'gain' anything by running the video through an AV reciever--or even worse, could I actually 'lose' something if it's a lower end one that tries to do some inferior upscaling? How much would I 'gain' in audio by running it via HDMI vs optical/coax?

If the answer is there's no real advantage to do so, am I 'paying' for all that video technology in an AV receiver that I don't really need, and could instead be getting cleaner, purer, more powerful sound with an audio only receiver for the same price?

With my Harmony (and most of us have something like that) I get one-button 'event' tuning anyhow, so that utility is essentially worthless, I can't imagine a low/midrange AV receiver like the 606 would do upscaling any better than a good TV or blu-ray, so that really just leaves the 'neatness' of reducing cable clutter--I think, but I'm not smart enough to know.

But the bottom line is, what's the 'value' in buying an AV receiver if you can handle video just as well other ways--by running it directly, for example? What's the 'point' of an AV receiver in a case like mine? Are you paying for features you don't need, at the possible expense of just plain audio power and processing?

Is there even such a thing as a non-AV receiver anymore?
post #225 of 408
Basically, yes. The fewer links in the chain the better and less to go wrong. The only thing you would not have in your setup is HD audio.
Whether you want or need HD audio is your choice.

The big advantages to going with an AVR, especially with HDMI input/output, is HD audio and using the AVR as a "hub" for multiple devices. If you have more devices than inputs on the TV, or you don't want to run multiple cable sets to your tv, then the "hub" aspect of an AVR is quite handy.

But certainly not necessary, as with your setup and preferences.
post #226 of 408
Quote:
Originally Posted by toby10 View Post

Basically, yes. The fewer links in the chain the better and less to go wrong. The only thing you would not have in your setup is HD audio.
Whether you want or need HD audio is your choice.

The big advantages to going with an AVR, especially with HDMI input/output, is HD audio and using the AVR as a "hub" for multiple devices. If you have more devices than inputs on the TV, or you don't want to run multiple cable sets to your tv, then the "hub" aspect of an AVR is quite handy.

But certainly not necessary, as with your setup and preferences.

I am kind of in the same boat as Wigan. I plan to upgrade to a 50" or so plasma or lcd and a blue ray player. I just have a 32" crt now. But I do have a HK AVR 230 with 5.1 surround but it has no HDMI in/out. Instead of buying a new AVR (the 230 still works great) I am considering the same hook up as Wigan has. Would I have HD audio? Any help from anyone would be helpful. I'm a newbe just registered. Thanks in advance.
post #227 of 408
Quote:
Originally Posted by Loren08 View Post

I am kind of in the same boat as Wigan. I plan to upgrade to a 50" or so plasma or lcd and a blue ray player. I just have a 32" crt now. But I do have a HK AVR 230 with 5.1 surround but it has no HDMI in/out. Instead of buying a new AVR (the 230 still works great) I am considering the same hook up as Wigan has. Would I have HD audio? Any help from anyone would be helpful. I'm a newbe just registered. Thanks in advance.

There are only two types of connections that can do HD audio:
- HDMI (via bitstreamed or via MPCM)
- Analog (assuming your player AND receiver have discrete analog connections)

Analog means your BD player must have a minimum of 6 (for 5.1 setup) or 8 (for 7.1 setup) analog out ports on the back. Obviously your receiver would require an equal number of analog inputs on it's back panel. Here is where HDMI becomes the convenient favorite of a single cable for ALL audio and video.

Optical or digital coax are not capable of HD bandwidth requirements.
post #228 of 408
Thanks much. I might have HD audio confused with say Dolby Digital etc. that I receive over my satellite box. If I understand HD audio has to do with streaming audio over the INTERNET. I do understand that a new AVR with up to date technology would be better. I am kinda trying to stay within somewhat of a budget. Your help is great in helping me make informed decisions on how to spend my budget.
post #229 of 408
Ok, I'm learning some things now. I'm not really sure what HD audio is, but I assume it must be what I want if I'm trying to get the best sound possible in an HT setup. And the most likely way to get it is with HDMI since I doubt my cable box has all those analog outputs, although I haven't looked.

Which now brings me to the question, is there such a thing as an 'audio only' sort of receiver with HDMI inputs?

It's not that I"m opposed to an AV receiver, it just occurred to me that if I"m paying $350 for an Onkyo 606 (which I'd sort of settled on), and for that money I'm getting $250 'worth' of audio capability and $100 worth of video capability (or whatever the split is), wouldn't I be better off scrapping the V part and getting a full $350 worth of audio?

But is there a way to do that or are any receivers with HDMI always going to include video processing, etc? I sort of assume they probably do.
post #230 of 408
Quote:
Originally Posted by Loren08 View Post

Thanks much. I might have HD audio confused with say Dolby Digital etc. that I receive over my satellite box. If I understand HD audio has to do with streaming audio over the INTERNET. I do understand that a new AVR with up to date technology would be better. I am kinda trying to stay within somewhat of a budget. Your help is great in helping me make informed decisions on how to spend my budget.

No, HD audio is uncompressed, higher bitrate, lossless audio on Blu-ray and HD-DVD sources. Dolby Digital is compressed, lower bitrate, lossy audio.

Look at it this way (loose comparison): HD audio (Dolby TrueHD and DTS-MA) is CD quality, as standard Dolby Digital and standard DTS is a compressed mp3. Not that the latter sounds bad, it's just not as good.

Your older non-HD audio capable receivers will work with all HD source movies, whether Blu-ray or HD-DVD, as all contain "core" soundtracks of either DD or DTS for backwards compatibility (the same DD and DTS you get now on your regular DVD players).
post #231 of 408
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wigan4 View Post

Ok, I'm learning some things now. I'm not really sure what HD audio is, but I assume it must be what I want if I'm trying to get the best sound possible in an HT setup. And the most likely way to get it is with HDMI since I doubt my cable box has all those analog outputs, although I haven't looked.

Which now brings me to the question, is there such a thing as an 'audio only' sort of receiver with HDMI inputs?

It's not that I"m opposed to an AV receiver, it just occurred to me that if I"m paying $350 for an Onkyo 606 (which I'd sort of settled on), and for that money I'm getting $250 'worth' of audio capability and $100 worth of video capability (or whatever the split is), wouldn't I be better off scrapping the V part and getting a full $350 worth of audio?

But is there a way to do that or are any receivers with HDMI always going to include video processing, etc? I sort of assume they probably do.


- There is no HD audio from a cable box, only HD-DVD or Blu-ray sources.
- Yes, some receivers only did HDMI audio, some did just HDMI video, most today do only both
- AVR's can be video processing (upscaling, deinterlacing) or pass through, or both.
post #232 of 408
Quote:
Originally Posted by toby10 View Post

No, HD audio is uncompressed, higher bitrate, lossless audio on Blu-ray and HD-DVD sources. Dolby Digital is compressed, lower bitrate, lossy audio.

Look at it this way (loose comparison): HD audio (Dolby TrueHD and DTS-MA) is CD quality, as standard Dolby Digital and standard DTS is a compressed mp3. Not that the latter sounds bad, it's just not as good.

Your older non-HD audio capable receivers will work with all HD source movies, whether Blu-ray or HD-DVD, as all contain "core" soundtracks of either DD or DTS for backwards compatibility (the same DD and DTS you get now on your regular DVD players).

O.K. Great that they will work. I could get by for now and upgrade the receiver at a later date. But if I understand I will not get HD audio??
post #233 of 408
Quote:
Originally Posted by Loren08 View Post

O.K. Great that they will work. I could get by for now and upgrade the receiver at a later date. But if I understand I will not get HD audio??

Correct. Unless your non-HDMI HK receiver has 6 analog inputs and your future Blu-ray player has 6 analog outputs, then no HD audio.

How much (if any) difference you will hear between DD and Dolby TrueHD depends on your system, your speakers and your ears.
post #234 of 408
Quote:
Originally Posted by toby10 View Post

Correct. Unless your non-HDMI HK receiver has 6 analog inputs and your future Blu-ray player has 6 analog outputs, then no HUD audio.

How much (if any) difference you will hear between DD and Dolby TrueHD depends on your system, your speakers and your ears.

Looks like I'm good Togo!! I probably wouldn't be able to tell much difference. I have had the speakers quit a while. Thanks allot now I can focus on the display and BR player. I am leaning pretty heavy toward the Pioneer KURO PDP 5020 FD. The player I haven't researched much yet. Any input would be appreciated. Thanks again.
post #235 of 408
Well, in my particular case I have the Sony S550 so in fact I do have all those analog outputs, and since I can't get HD sound from cable anyhow all I need is a receiver with the analog inputs and I'm good to go, too.

My sense is there are scads of good older receivers around I can pick up on the cheap that would give me more power than, say, a 606, and I'd still have the HD sound for blu-ray and optical for cable, so this has helped me too.
post #236 of 408
Quote:
Originally Posted by Loren08 View Post

Looks like I'm good Togo!! I probably wouldn't be able to tell much difference. I have had the speakers quit a while. Thanks allot now I can focus on the display and BR player. I am leaning pretty heavy toward the Pioneer KURO PDP 5020 FD. The player I haven't researched much yet. Any input would be appreciated. Thanks again.

I'd ask that in the Blu-ray forums.
post #237 of 408
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wigan4 View Post

Well, in my particular case I have the Sony S550 so in fact I do have all those analog outputs, and since I can't get HD sound from cable anyhow all I need is a receiver with the analog inputs and I'm good to go, too.

My sense is there are scads of good older receivers around I can pick up on the cheap that would give me more power than, say, a 606, and I'd still have the HD sound for blu-ray and optical for cable, so this has helped me too.

Yup. Newer isn't always better.
post #238 of 408
I've got an older Onkyo sr-502 that I'm looking to upgrade.Couple of days ago it stopped responding to the remote but otherwise works OK.This X-mas bought a Sony S350 BR player.Have it hooked up optical to receiver and hdmi to dvi to a 3-4yr old Mitsu RPTV with no "handshake" issues.My question is if I buy a newer receiver with hdmi jacks,will I be able to use hdmi from BR player to receiver and hdmi to DVI to Mitsu without any problems?And is one brand better than others as far as handshake issues.
post #239 of 408
Just saw this FAQ. I was looking for the amp gain or sensitivity explanation all over the web and finally here it was well explained. Thanks
post #240 of 408
Thread Starter 
I am glad it was helpful.
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