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Warner Blu Ray Only--End of Combo Players? - Page 2

post #31 of 123
Quote:


Combo players are going to plummet, too, probably landing somewhere slightly above the cheapest BD-only players.

Go down, yes. But in the short run actual price will depend on a given dual player's features versus a Blu-Ray only. If the dual has better Blu-Ray features than a Blu-Ray player, it will sell for more, if not, for less. I should think that is obvious.

Having said that, there will eventually be no reason to have HD-DVD playback so the obvious course is to eventually drop production of any machine that plays them once HD-DVD discs go away.

In that sense, combo players will be cheap on clearance but this will likely take a year or more (how much more is anyone's guess). In the meantime, I will be able to watch HD-DVD only releases on my Sammy 5000...
post #32 of 123
I actually think the WB announcement helps the 5000. If the audio and video issues are worked out it's a perfect way for current A2/A3/A30/A35/ETC owners to go blu. They will be able to play their HD-DVD collection and BR on a single player. In addition the 5000 has everything needed to be profile 2.0 except the 1GB local storage. With the ethernet connection there are ways around this. I also feel the internet connectivity ability is going to be more important for future advanced content.

I was prepared to return my 5000 and pick up an A35/BD30. Now for sure I won't get an A35 and the BD30 lacks an ethernet port, so it's very likely I stand pat with my 5000.
post #33 of 123
I feel it should help also.... Companies could rub it in even more and advertise it as 'backwards compatible with DVD and HD-DVD'

I currently own a A2 and a PS3 and should the war completely end I would be interested in having one stand alone unit. Further to this, if I wanted to add more players throughout the house, a company that offered a combo player would receive my business over those who don't.
post #34 of 123
Quote:
Originally Posted by enormus View Post

The only market now for dual format players will be existing HD DVD owners. Since hi def players as a whole are such a niche market, I don't see that as a very big market -- certainly not big enough to lure top tier companies. I can see low budget players similar to the HD-A1/A2/A3 or Venturer that offer limited features and cheaper specs. Of course, that is essentially what we have now in the LH-200 and UP500 unless LG and Samsung are able to give us more features via firmware updates that are less likely to come now. Either that, or dual players might become seriously more expensive.

Exactly!! The glimmer of hope I see here would be an Oppo type offering equivalent to their universal DVD-A/SACD capable units that had excellent price/performance even though the market was slim........
post #35 of 123
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Originally Posted by nick_rh View Post

Oh, at long last. I can finally think about taking the padlock off the wallet and buying a Blu-Ray player. It wasn't easy to sit out the format war up to now, but I'm really glad I did.

Market prediction: Toshiba will fire-sale their HD-DVD players as early as possible to cut their losses. Meanwhile, dedicated Blu-Ray players (and the PS3) may well go up in price -- although that phenomenon could be offset somewhat with the inevitable advent of off-brand Chinese BD players. Combo players are going to plummet, too, probably landing somewhere slightly above the cheapest BD-only players.

Don't forget the computer side of this, either: Apple announced their exclusive hardware support for BD today as well. Now it's time for Toshiba to to get with the program or risk becoming an irrelevant laughingstock in the tech world. Sony, once they got over their disappointment of losing the videotape war, managed to produce some of the most popular and best-performing VHS players. No reason Toshiba can't do the same with BD.

BR going up in price??? The major "war" is still with SD DVD, so prices going up no chance in heck.
post #36 of 123
How tough would it be to make the HD DVD drive in my Toshiba laptop computer play blu-ray? Just a software program, or would it just not work because of the hardware.
post #37 of 123
Quote:
Originally Posted by narcopolo View Post

How tough would it be to make the HD DVD drive in my Toshiba laptop computer play blu-ray? Just a software program, or would it just not work because of the hardware.

HD-DVD and BluRay use different wavelength lasers, so it would be near impossible.
post #38 of 123
Quote:
Originally Posted by dkwong View Post

HD-DVD and BluRay use different wavelength lasers, so it would be near impossible.

Ok, thanks.

By the way, how do those dual players do it? 2 different lasers?
post #39 of 123
Quote:
Originally Posted by hellgrammite View Post

It has not taken off, and if it does not gain some much larger sales, downloading HD media will become more popular (which it is doing well now).

Downloads, while holding the "potential" for future success, are still a negligible blip on the radar compared to "disc" sales. I think that the "hard" media market will continue to dominate for quite some time.

Larry
post #40 of 123
Quote:
Originally Posted by dkwong View Post

HD-DVD and BluRay use different wavelength lasers, so it would be near impossible.

Both HD DVD and Blu-ray use the same blue-violet laser with a wavelength of 405nm.

It's the Numeric Aperture of their optics that are different and allows BD to carry more data.
post #41 of 123
HDDVD is going to take a hit from this, but depending what comes from CES 2008, HDDVD could have solid support until at least 2009.

Which two major studies still HD-DVD exclusive, Blu-ray is still going to continue to have problems (HD-Discs in general arent doing that well overral (dvds still are way too powerful)).

2010 could be the year that Blu-ray has a solid victory, and HD-DVD is no longer supported by major studios. But by this point microsoft and Toshiba will realize this, and licence to make blu-ray players by Sony...who will be more than happy to oblige them (even at low values). Toshiba then makes a dirt cheap dual player to compete (the way it should be, now everything is a blu-ray player, but toshiba gives you same value with HD-dvd playback also)

This is not betamax. These are DVD-Roms people. The better blu-ray does in the next two years...the more likely cheaper dual players appear. Since both sides have slow, but solid sales so far...there is too much opportunity to have your player outsell the rest of them by having HD-DVD support.

Do you know what these companies make from dvd players.....not much. Any advantage would help. I can guarantee you that unless universal and paramount go BLU RAY EXCLUSIVE IN THE SPRING OF 08. CHEAP DUAL PLAYERS WILL BECOME MUCH MORE AVAILABE (AND REASONABLY PRICED) STARTING SOMETIME IN 08/09.
post #42 of 123
Well, since I backed HD DVD for the past few months (purely because of price--player manufacturers/media companies, you got that?), it was inevitable that BluRay would pull farther ahead. That said, I'm not horribly upset at the whole thing. Sure, I have about 20 discs, half of which are Universal HD DVD-exclusives. I know there will always be a way to play them via computer drives, but I'm hopeful that there will be a decent market for dual-format standalone players, too. Since much of the hardware is the same between the different players, I think the best bet would be for the HD DVD consortium to drop their licensing fees by the end of the year. This would give the hardware manufacturers little reason not to include HD DVD playback abilities in their players since the additional costs to do so would be negligible.
post #43 of 123
Its not he players that are the problem..They are cheap enough that regular consumers will buy them..The players now range from $199 - $249.. Only a real tightwad or someone who doesn't watch a lot of movies isn't going to buy one.Its the expensive media that's the problem..I can't justify spending $30 for a movie..You can't get them all off Amazon for $20.. You also can't rent every one on HD or Blu Ray,or its also an ungodly wait..until you can go into a blockbuster and rent hd or blu ray like regular dvd's most people won't need an hd player.Most won't appreciate what we do..Especially women..They aren't into tech stuff,some are ,most aren't..
post #44 of 123
Since after May 2008 Warner is going BLU-RAY exclusive all the major studios have picked a side and there is no more major neutral studios. The demand for combo players is now bigger since no major studios are neutral. When and if Universal Studios and Paramount Pictures starts releasing movies in BLU-RAY that will be when there is no need to make dual format players anymore. For when and if such an event occurs BLU-RAY would have 100% studio support. The only reason there is a market for dual format players now is the fact that nether the BLU-RAY or HD-DVD camps have 100% studio support yet.
post #45 of 123
Quote:
Originally Posted by nick_rh View Post

Meanwhile, dedicated Blu-Ray players (and the PS3) may well go up in price

I don't see that happening. Sony needs to stay relevant in the game console wars, and raising the price would seriously jeopardize that. I don't see the standalone players going up either, although this may slow the reduction in prices.
post #46 of 123
Quote:
Originally Posted by enormus View Post

The only market now for dual format players will be existing HD DVD owners.

The only way that statement is true is if Universal and Paramount/DW agree to support Blu-Ray.

Not sure why everyone is talking like this has already happened.


*EDIT* - Regardless of what happens, my one wish would be for the dual-format player concept to last long enough so we can get a combo player that is 2.0 compliant so I'm not sitting there knowing my Blu-Ray player is gimped.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SirDrexl View Post

I don't see that happening. Sony needs to stay relevant in the game console wars, and raising the price would seriously jeopardize that.

Indeed. While it's all roses for fans of Blu-Ray as a movie format right now, the PS3 is still bringing up the distant rear in the console race. They've got what they wanted as far as using the PS3 to infiltrate enough homes to give their movie format a strong advantage, but that's only step one.
post #47 of 123
Quote:
Originally Posted by LowTech1 View Post

I can't justify spending $30 for a movie.

So I am guessing you don't watch movies at movie theaters then? Ever total up what it costs? $10 for a ticket. $9.50 for a soda and popcorn. Oh, you brought a date? Well there went that $30...

I am waiting until there's a clear winner, and that looks to be in the works.
post #48 of 123
Quote:
Originally Posted by TV Casualty View Post

The only way that statement is true is if Universal and Paramount/DW agree to support Blu-Ray.

Not sure why everyone is talking like this has already happened.

I think it only needs Universal to go neutral, Paramount can be easy bought.
post #49 of 123
Quote:
Originally Posted by CCDAstro View Post

The folks I really feel sorry for are the poor suckers that bought HD-DVD players and discs. In a couple of years their players will be good for playing the HD-DVD discs they bought and for holding the door open while they carry their new Blu-Ray player into the house.

And then in 6 months, when the Blu-ray spec changes again, that BD player they just bought will be used to hold the door open, and so on and so forth in an infinite loop.

No, I don't feel bad or upset that I bought 2 HD DVD players and (so far) 77 discs.

I feel bad for the suckers that bought a 1.0 spec BD player and need to buy another one for 1.1 features and then a third for 2.0 features. Meanwhile, my HD DVD players support the spec fully because it was final before launch.

BD = Beta-testing Dummies

post #50 of 123
It was interesting that just last month in the New York Times, they featured an article which quoted one of the Sony Executives that the Blur ray and HD/dvd format wars were going to be around a long time. Now they have an article this month saying that Hd/dvd is about ready to go under because of the Warner's Brothers' commitment to Blue Ray.

I hope there right because one format will be better for everybody. The problem for the videophile is not one format or the other but the fact that because of this War most consumers are playing a wait and see game and very few movies are being released in either Format.

I still own a laser Disk player.
post #51 of 123
Quote:
Originally Posted by superklye View Post

And then in 6 months, when the Blu-ray spec changes again, that BD player they just bought will be used to hold the door open, and so on and so forth in an infinite loop.

No, I don't feel bad or upset that I bought 2 HD DVD players and (so far) 77 discs.

I feel bad for the suckers that bought a 1.0 spec BD player and need to buy another one for 1.1 features and then a third for 2.0 features. Meanwhile, my HD DVD players support the spec fully because it was final before launch.

BD = Beta-testing Dummies


The cost of 2 HD-DVD Players and 77 HD-DVD coasters far outweighs the cost of 2 BD Players. I think you are the sucker not a BD Player owner!
post #52 of 123
There might still be a market for combo players, however I see it as a shrinking market.

The question really is this:

Will you continue to buy Uni/Para HD DVDs in light of the Warner news?

I suspect the answer is no. I'll be thinking twice about buying anymore HD DVDs, regardless of which studio is releasing them.

Still, I'm not overly upset about picking up my BH100. I'll still be able to play my current HD DVDs, which means my money was not totally wasted. But even us "neutral" folks have to think twice about buying any new HD DVDs.
post #53 of 123
I'm going to stick with my dual HD player, and continue to buy HD DVD. In fact, I'll stock up if the price is right. There are many HD DVD exclusives that I'd love to have.
post #54 of 123
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Regan View Post

Now that Warner has gone Blu Ray only, the demise of HD DVD has begun.
Does this mean we won't be seeing new combo players going forward?

Yes - that's exactly what it means because there will be only one format. Who would go to the trouble to develop and market a machine that is more expensive and has essentially no market. DF only made sense in a stalemate scenario.
post #55 of 123
I just can't see many people buying dual format players from this point on.

1) If you are starting from scratch you will now get a BD player and completely ignore HD DVD.

2) If you have a BD player but not HD DVD you are done

3) If you have an HD DVD player but not not Blu-ray, you can keep you HD DVD player for HD DVD and DVD playback. You will eventually need to get a Blu-ray player if you want HDM.

4) If you have both already, you are done -- unless you need to upgrade for audio -- then the next logical upgrade would be a newer, better Blu-ray player.

The one special group that dual players would make sense for are those that already have sizable investments in HD DVD media. For those people it would be much cheaper to pay more for a dual player than to replace a bunch of HD DVD discs with Blu-ray.

I have around 25 HD DVD titles and was planning on getting the 5000, but with the Warner announcement that player would need to be a no compromise player with internal DTS HDMA decoding. I suppose I might be willing to pay a $200 more than the equivalent Blu-ray player just for the convenience of a single player that plays my legacy HD DVD titles. Otherwise, I would just buy the must have titles over again in Blu-ray.
post #56 of 123
I doubt it I am going to get me one as soon as the prices go down.
post #57 of 123
Quote:
Originally Posted by alexortega View Post

The cost of 2 HD-DVD Players and 77 HD-DVD coasters far outweighs the cost of 2 BD Players. I think you are the sucker not a BD Player owner!

Really so those 77 HD-DVDs, many probably exclusive, are going to self destruct now that WB went blu?
post #58 of 123
Quote:


And then in 6 months, when the Blu-ray spec changes again, that BD player they just bought will be used to hold the door open, and so on and so forth in an infinite loop.

Total utter nonsense. The older players might not support the newer interactive features but will still play the movies.
post #59 of 123
Quote:
Originally Posted by CCDAstro View Post

Go down, yes. But in the short run actual price will depend on a given dual player's features versus a Blu-Ray only. If the dual has better Blu-Ray features than a Blu-Ray player, it will sell for more, if not, for less. I should think that is obvious.

Having said that, there will eventually be no reason to have HD-DVD playback so the obvious course is to eventually drop production of any machine that plays them once HD-DVD discs go away.

But by the time there's no reason to have HD DVD compatibility, the cost of doing so will be nil. In fact the cost of taking HD DVD compatibility OUT will be prohibitive as every chipset and software module expects the two modes. And probably by then, both BD and HD will be a subset of something else.
post #60 of 123
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChicagoTC View Post

Really so those 77 HD-DVDs, many probably exclusive, are going to self destruct now that WB went blu?

Give it a year and a half and you will see everyone doing blu!....You even have Michael Bay the director of the exclusive Transformers saying that HD-DVD will die a slow death and that Transformers will come out in Blu-Ray....

People have to just face the inevitable....if you are suggesting that HD-DVD can still win this then please state your case....otherwise those HD-DVDs will end up as coasters in a couple of years time.
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