or Connect
AVS › AVS Forum › Video Components › DVD Recorders (Standard Def) › CES 2008 - SDTV DVD Recorders
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

CES 2008 - SDTV DVD Recorders - Page 2

post #31 of 130
I just picked up a brand new Panasonic 80GB EH75V HDD Recorder at circut city(not sure how they still had one in stock I thought it was a EZ47 combo DVR... but ended up with a EH75V instead. I may end up selling it because it is silver in color and all my other equipment is black.

What is the advantage of the EH75V over a Comcast DVR HDD TIVO Cable Box?

And can both be used together... example... recording from the cable dvr box to the EH75V DVR? (from recordings saved on the Cable DVR, etc....)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rammitinski View Post

If it looks like there really won't be anymore HDD models coming out, I'd grab as many of those things as possible. They'll most likely end up being worth a small fortune, like some of the last couple of year's models are now.
post #32 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rammitinski View Post

If it looks like there really won't be anymore HDD models coming out, I'd grab as many of those things as possible. They'll most likely end up being worth a small fortune, like some of the last couple of year's models are now.

I am trying to think of one home video technology item whose increase in value due to shortages lasted more than two years. The only one I can think of is the Daewoo 5800 DVD player, which sold for about $60 at Sam's Club three years ago and now goes for $150 on one website, for a unit with the firmware modified to eliminate region coding and Macrovision.

HDD DVD recorders use relatively old technology to record video. If a company comes out with the computer hardware to transcode an incoming video signal to XviD format for storage on a hard or flash drive, then HDD DVD recorders will be yesterday's technology. That hasn't happened yet, but the handwriting is already on the wall. As their price goes down, flash memory drives of ever increasing sizes are the wave of the future for data storage. The XviD format is already in wide use for TV episode and video downloads.

So buying HDD DVD recorders as if they were fine art may be a bad investment. As a way to record video, HDD DVD recorders are still the best thing available. For now.
post #33 of 130
I wasn't really suggesting holding onto them for more than 2 years. I just figured that once the realization sets in that there won't be more coming out (if that's truly the case), then they should be pretty hot items, and you should make a profit.

Maybe "small fortune" was a little strong of a term.
post #34 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by CapeAV View Post

I just picked up a brand new Panasonic 80GB EH75V HDD Recorder at circut city(not sure how they still had one in stock I thought it was a EZ47 combo DVR... but ended up with a EH75V instead. I may end up selling it because it is silver in color and all my other equipment is black.

What is the advantage of the EH75V over a Comcast DVR HDD TIVO Cable Box?

And can both be used together... example... recording from the cable dvr box to the EH75V DVR? (from recordings saved on the Cable DVR, etc....)

Well, as long as all you want to record in is SD, the Panasonic has a program guide to record through that is free to use, and it's definitely a better made unit than the 3 US HDD/DVD models available out there now. I've never had the Polaroid, which is supposed to be complete junk anyway, but I've had the other two supposedly "good" models, and I also own the EH75V, and I can tell you firsthand that the other two don't even compare in many ways. They're no better than adequate. It's the last, good Japanese-made model sold here (although I think some were also made in Taiwan later).

The EH75V's TV Guide on Screen feature is compatible with analog OTA, digital and analog cable, and also Dish and DirecTV satellite, and it uses an IR blaster to control an external box, which is non-existent these days (except maybe for some LG models). It will control at least one of my OTA HD tuners, and the guide picks up the info for the digital OTA channels and subchannels, so it can be configured to work with digital OTA in some cases, also. If your external tuner lets you schedule timers, it can be synched with that without using the IR blaster.

Unless you really need that built-in, digital SD tuner, you'd be way better off keeping the EH75V. All new units, from Panasonic and others, are nothing but problems.

The main difference, though, is the hard drive. Once you use that, you'll never want a model without one. You can record in LP mode on the HDD and still hardly notice any loss in quality.
post #35 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by gerrytwo View Post

HDD DVD recorders use relatively old technology to record video. If a company comes out with the computer hardware to transcode an incoming video signal to XviD format for storage on a hard or flash drive, then HDD DVD recorders will be yesterday's technology. That hasn't happened yet, but the handwriting is already on the wall. As their price goes down, flash memory drives of ever increasing sizes are the wave of the future for data storage. The XviD format is already in wide use for TV episode and video downloads.

So buying HDD DVD recorders as if they were fine art may be a bad investment. As a way to record video, HDD DVD recorders are still the best thing available. For now.

How about the Archos 605 wifi? It records in MPEG-4 and has up to a 160GB HDD. I have the 80GB model. It's portable and has an optional DVR docking station that includes a 7 day electronic program guide. You can view content on any TV using the DVR docking station.

You can hook the Archos up to a PC via USB to transfer content back and forth. It is also designed to work with the Dish 622/722 DVRs (with a free plugin) meaning you can transfer content from the Dish DVRs via USB to the Archos 605.

With the Cinema plugin you can play MPEG-2, VOB, PS and other files and codecs. For example with the Cinema plugin I can stream mpegs via wifi from a PC in my house to the Archos 605 when the 605 is hooked up to my widescreen LCD HDTV. You can stream avi files without the plugin just fine.

You can download all that "free" video on the web and play it on your television using the Archos 605 with its DVR docking station. Stream it via wifi to your TV if you choose.

From the Archos site:

Play all your digital entertainment: movies, TV shows, photos and music

Record your favorite TV shows

Stream and watch videos from your PC

Download movies and music directly on your PMP using the ARCHOS Content Portal

Enjoy the new high resolution 4.3'' touch screen (800x480 pixels)

Internet enabled to surf the Web, share content, and access Web video sites (eg DailyMotion)

Customize your ARCHOS with great accessories and plug-ins

View, zoom photos and make slide shows with music and transition effects, for viewing on the PMP or TV

Listen to all your favorite music in more formats than any other player

As mentioned I have the 80GB model and it works great. I picked it up becuse it works for transfering recordings off of my Dish DVR (via USB).

If I want to rip my store bought DVDs there is an Archos setting in DVDFab Platinum. For real time recordings using the DVR docking station the bit rate settings are 500/1000/1500/2000/2500 kbs so there are enough options for having decent PQ on the Archos mobile unit itself (small file) or when using it as a player with a television (larger file).

There is an Opera plugin for web browsing via wifi. You can use the docking station to browse the web using your television as the monitor if you choose.

It does more than what can be listed here. It is where things are headed. I paid less for mine than what the "leading" 2007 HDD DVD recorder costs.

Archos Web Site:

Here

And the new Archos TV+ which is similiar in concept to what I posted above without the portability:

TV+

More TV+
post #36 of 130
Quote:


How about the Archos 605 wifi?

It would be great option if it was a reliable, standardized solution, but it isn't. Based on user reports, 50% of them are defective out of the box, 30% of the remaining ones blow up within 30 days and the remaining 20% seem to work for their owners but not nearly with the functionality promised.

Don't be too quick to dismiss DVD as "old technology". We are still far FAR away from a 25-cent, 4.7 GB (more for hidef) capacity disposable flash drive. DVD playback is a cheap, widespread media display standard worldwide and will remain so for awhile. There are a great many countries without rentable cable-subsidized closed-system DVRs: those countries are full of people who like to trade and pass DVDs to each other. And for all the market penetration of the "TiVO"-like cable dvrs in the US, half the time people don't watch their banked recordings and the box continually records new over old. Many is the time I hand friends or relatives a stack of burned discs of things they missed that I *know* they TiVO'd, and they are *so* grateful.

There absolutely IS a market here in the US for the DVD/HDD recorder: it may be relatively small compared to Europe or Asia, it may be too price sensitive for mfr comfort, but it IS there! Given a choice of NO consumer HiDef removable media recording (which seems the most likely future) or simple, standard-def DVD/HDD, there are quite a few of us who are still happy to use standard def: it may not be BluRay quality but it beats VHS by a mile. I'm tired of stockpiling 3 year old replacement parts for my Pioneers: I want the option of buying a new recorder, even if it costs $400-500.

(Talk of PC-based solutions doesn't mean squat to those of us used to the comparatively easier DVD/HDD units. For folks like me, who have been avid VHS tapers for 25 years, the PC-based paradigm is unwieldy and annoying: it is SO much nicer to use a simple, dedicated, integrated with the TV, remote-controllable DVD/HDD recorder. Not to mention, bug-free computer-based home theater is a contradiction in terms.)
post #37 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by CitiBear View Post

It would be great option if it was a reliable, standardized solution, but it isn't. Based on user reports, 50% of them are defective out of the box, 30% of the remaining ones blow up within 30 days and the remaining 20% seem to work for their owners but not nearly with the functionality promised.

Based on this I guess the 0% remaining are over at the Archose 605 wifi forum.

Here:

Archos 605 forum

I wonder if they know they represent the remaining 0%? I'd hate to have to break the news to them.
post #38 of 130
Thread Starter 
A good, short CNET article on Panny's DVD recorders for 2008.

Here's the table from that CNET article:
post #39 of 130
Thanks Wabjxo, even if you're the bearer of bad news. I see the eliminated the EZ-17, and replaced it with one of the tunerless jobs, and it doesn't even look like it's got a IR blaster, like one of the LG's. And no HD throughput either! What's the sense in the HDMI, without that! I guess they wouldn't want to make it too useful! Ahhhg, nothing to look forward to in Panny land.
post #40 of 130
Just came back from my Christmas trip to Europe, and saw an HDD DVD recorder from pretty much every big name and at fairly reasonable prices. They were all sitting nice next to the hundreds of boxes of Wiis, for which there were no endless lines of waiting people.

Why do companies subsidize the hardware for anything? Because they make their money back from software. Why would they make it easier for us to make perfectly good copies of an entire Ugly Betty season, so that we won't have to buy it once the season is over?

I think it's just asking too much to have a cheap solution that will make it easier to not spend even more money later.
post #41 of 130
Quote:


Originally Posted by CitiBear
It would be great option if it was a reliable, standardized solution, but it isn't. Based on user reports, 50% of them are defective out of the box, 30% of the remaining ones blow up within 30 days and the remaining 20% seem to work for their owners but not nearly with the functionality promised.

Quote:


Originally Posted by nextoo
Based on this I guess the 0% remaining are over at the Archose 605 wifi forum.

Here: Archos 605 forum

I wonder if they know they represent the remaining 0%? I'd hate to have to break the news to them.

Of course there is a thriving forum of folks living large with their Archos units and loving em: forums are unique in their ability to draw together unusually large numbers of people who amazingly claim to have zero problems with media devices that drive the typical consumer out of their skulls. We forum members are not the general population: we are so enthralled with these toys that we overlook flaws that cause Joe Smith to return to the store within 24 hours. Please. We all filter what we read on web forums (including this one) if we know what's good for us.

My job is half admin/half tech, I constantly have people bringing me their toys and saying "please fix it" (which I avoid like the plague). A "name" store near my office promotes the Archos units in ads nearly every week in two local papers. In this past year, I have had 9 of them presented to me with any number of issues. All but one of those people returned or resold them, the last struggles with plugins and whatnot trying to make it work for him as advertised. On the New York City subway, it is not unusual to see people hitting them and cursing them for not working. On the whole, reliability reports on the Archos gadgets is about on par with reports for the poorly re-engineered Apple iPod Classic: they both stink. So I am not singling out the Archos to condemn it: its a great idea, it just doesn't work the way a lot of people would like it to (including me- I'd buy one tomorrow if they did). As is true of almost all portable media devices that record these days, an Archos cannot substitute for a good DVD/HDD recorder which burns a standard disc that can be played anywhere.
post #42 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by wabjxo View Post

CES 2008 DVD Recorder Update, Day 2

Samsung = 3 . . .all tunerless, 2 DVD/VHS combos
Toshiba = 4 . . . .1 tunerless, 2 DVD/VHS combos
Panasonic = 4 . . 2 tunerless, 2 DVD/VHS combos
With HDD = 0

I interpreted the Toshiba announcement as 2 tunerless models. As such the Panasonic and Toshiba lines are mirror images of each other -- DVDR-only, DVDR/VCR, both with and without tuners. All in all, seems like no advancement from either company. I wonder if they even make the units themselves or are they the same chinese unit in different packaging. Truely disappointing.

I had thought the tunerless DVDR was on the way out, but apparently they see a market in them for cable. Since cable's encryption tactics force the need for one of their STBs to get more than just basic channels, they figure it makes sense to offer tunerless models at reduced pricepoints. Interesting that cable-cards seem dead, otherwise why not offer a tunerless model with a cablecard slot.

Has anyone seen in the anouncements whether or not the tuner models still include QAM tuners?
post #43 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by nextoo View Post

Here's somthing new -

EchoStar TR-50: HD DVR for the antenna crowd



Not a DVD recorder but it looks like it may offer HD and SD recording and HD and SD passthrough (maybe?).

From here:

EchoStar HD DVR

edit - another link here:

Press Release

Thank you for that info, Nextoo. As an exclusive OTA'er I was getting depressed at what the future did not seem to hold in the way of HDD/DVDR's. I was seriously contemplating purchase of the Phillips before they get yanked off the market so I would not be caught short in 2/09 waiting for the "next" model.

This would be a perfect solution for me. An HD-OTA DVR with expandable storage. I can still use my E-85 with the line-in's from the Echostar for archival burning. With no subscription and EPG, I would pay $350-400 for this easily.
post #44 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by nextoo View Post

Here's somthing new -


Separately, EchoStar also announced the TR-40. That model is merely a digital set-top box (no DVR). It will let analog TV owners (or those with HD monitors that lack a tuner) receive digital and high-def signals over the air--a necessity after the scheduled February 2009 analog TV shutdown.

From here:

EchoStar HD DVR

edit - another link here:

Press Release

This is also very nice. From the link you provided, the TR-40 is a Gov't approved converter box, eligible for voucher purchase and a retail price of $39.99. It includes an EPG and timer settings which will make it useful for older DVDR's.

Quote:


EchoStar's TR-40 over-the-air, digital-to-analog converter allows analog TVs to
receive digital over-the-air broadcasts and comes with an onscreen setup wizard
for easy installation. Other features include up to a seven-day electronic
programming guide (EPG), program search, parental locks and VCR auto-tune
timers. The box will be sold under both the EchoStar and Sling Media, Inc. brand
names for $39.99 at retail, and can be purchased via the National
Telecommunications and Information Administration's Digital-to-Analog Converter
Box Coupon Program.

You have put a smile on my face.

thanks . . .
post #45 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelson View Post

.

........This would be a perfect solution for me. An HD-OTA DVR with expandable storage. I can still use my E-85 with the line-in's from the Echostar for archival burning. With no subscription and EPG, I would pay $350-400 for this easily.

It is also a perfect addition for anybody with cable or satellite. If the TR-50 does come to market I think it has great potential.

I moved to Dish two months ago after becoming unhappy with the 160GB TWC DVR. 160GB is just not enough space when considering recording and time shifting high definition content. My current DVR from Dish is the VIP722 - 500GB HDD. An absolutely outstanding DVR. Top rated. Top notch. Some claim it is better than Tivo. If the TR-50 utilizes the Dish EPG (and all indications are that it will) there will be a lot of happy campers.

The VIP722 offers unlimited archiving via USB to external HDDs. You can move content from the internal VIP722 hard drive via USB to an external HDD and play it back from the external HDD. Outstanding feature. There's no requirement to move content back to the STB for playback.

I chose to use external HDDs for archiving. There is an advantage over burning to DVD. It is two fold. First you retain the full high definition resolution. The is no downrez to 480i that happens when burning a DVD. You also retain the 5.1 audio. Personally, if I am looking for portability I will burn to a DVD but I find myself retaining the original high definition recording on the external HDDs for archiving purposes as well.

If these features are incorporated in the EchoStar TR-50 it will be a home run.
post #46 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by wabjxo View Post

New 2008 DVDR scorecard to date:

Samsung = 3
Toshiba = 4
Panasonic = 4
With HDD = 0

Any word on Philips or Sony? Follow up on 3575?
post #47 of 130
Thread Starter 
Philips has a whole web site for their CES 2008 stuff and not a recorder in sight.

Sony = nada, zilch, no comprende "DVD recorder"? 16 camcorders, tho.
post #48 of 130
Quote:


Originally Posted by nextoo:

I chose to use external HDDs for archiving. There is an advantage over burning to DVD. It is two fold. First you retain the full high definition resolution. The is no downrez to 480i that happens when burning a DVD. You also retain the 5.1 audio. Personally, if I am looking for portability I will burn to a DVD but I find myself retaining the original high definition recording on the external HDDs for archiving purposes as well.

If these features are incorporated in the EchoStar TR-50 it will be a home run.

Now THIS thing sounds more like it- very useful features, and as you say, swappable external drives are the best way to preserve HD content right now. Given the current price of Blu-Ray blanks, a 500GB usb drive is a reasonable alternative for storage. My only concern would be the file format Echostar uses- since their box(es) are apparently required to play back the recordings, I hope its not in a "closed" format exclusive to them. Or if it is, I'm crossing my fingers its similar enough to an "open" standard that it could be reverse-engineered and decoded somehow? Much as I hate involving my Windows or Mac PCs in my video hobby, I would do so if it allowed editing the recordings from such a DVR. (For me, the main attraction of current sd DVD/HDD units is their editing feature, but so far it doesn't look like that will be included in any of the upcoming video solutions.) If I can edit the recordings and have the option of downrezzing them for transfer to SD-DVD, fantastic: I'd tolerate the hassle of moving back and forth from DVR to PC.
post #49 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by CitiBear View Post

It would be great option if it was a reliable, standardized solution, but it isn't. Based on user reports, 50% of them are defective out of the box, 30% of the remaining ones blow up within 30 days and the remaining 20% seem to work for their owners but not nearly with the functionality promised.

Don't be too quick to dismiss DVD as "old technology". We are still far FAR away from a 25-cent, 4.7 GB (more for hidef) capacity disposable flash drive. DVD playback is a cheap, widespread media display standard worldwide and will remain so for awhile. There are a great many countries without rentable cable-subsidized closed-system DVRs: those countries are full of people who like to trade and pass DVDs to each other. And for all the market penetration of the "TiVO"-like cable dvrs in the US, half the time people don't watch their banked recordings and the box continually records new over old. Many is the time I hand friends or relatives a stack of burned discs of things they missed that I *know* they TiVO'd, and they are *so* grateful.

There absolutely IS a market here in the US for the DVD/HDD recorder: it may be relatively small compared to Europe or Asia, it may be too price sensitive for mfr comfort, but it IS there! Given a choice of NO consumer HiDef removable media recording (which seems the most likely future) or simple, standard-def DVD/HDD, there are quite a few of us who are still happy to use standard def: it may not be BluRay quality but it beats VHS by a mile. I'm tired of stockpiling 3 year old replacement parts for my Pioneers: I want the option of buying a new recorder, even if it costs $400-500.

(Talk of PC-based solutions doesn't mean squat to those of us used to the comparatively easier DVD/HDD units. For folks like me, who have been avid VHS tapers for 25 years, the PC-based paradigm is unwieldy and annoying: it is SO much nicer to use a simple, dedicated, integrated with the TV, remote-controllable DVD/HDD recorder. Not to mention, bug-free computer-based home theater is a contradiction in terms.)

Great fricking post.
post #50 of 130
Well I guess it's time then to go hunting in the basement for my Sony Walkman. Not sure if I'll find the cassette or CD version - either way I'll have to send in for repair. If I can't find the CD version I think I saw a Durabrand knock off for sale at Walmart for $7.99. Right next to the $5.99 clock radios. While I'm at it I might as well dig out the whale oil lamps too. Dust them off. And look for the saddle soap so I can get the buggy whips back in service.....

By the way. Does anybody have a recommendation as it relates to the new 2008 DVD recorder lineup?
post #51 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by CapeAV View Post

What is the advantage of the EH75V over a Comcast DVR HDD TIVO Cable Box?

You can burn DVDs with it. And you can edit the material on the HDD (e.g. to remove commercials) before burning it to DVD.

Quote:


And can both be used together... example... recording from the cable dvr box to the EH75V DVR? (from recordings saved on the Cable DVR, etc....)

Yes, so long as your DVR has an extra S-video (preferably) or composite-video output that you can connect to one of the line inputs on the EH75V. I have two Sony HD DVRs that I use extensively for recording off-air digital broadcasts (I don't use cable or satellite), and often dub recordings to my EH75V. On its HDD I delete the commercials, then burn to DVD.
post #52 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtbell View Post

You can burn DVDs with it. And you can edit the material on the HDD (e.g. to remove commercials) before burning it to DVD.

The only "DVR" I have found that allows you to edit content is the Archos I mentioned above. You can edit out commercial etc right on the DVR. No DVD burner but you can edit on the DVR and then use a DVD recorder sans HDD to archive the content commercial free. I'm not sure if the new Archos TV+ offers this but my 605 wifi does.

I use Dish and the Archos has an IR blaster that talks to my Dish STB. As well as having a channel guide that includes the Dish channel lineup. And USB connectivity to the Dish STB for high speed transfers.

edit - I should add that the Archos I have also allows for external HDDs via USB or you can hook it up to a PC and the Archos becomes a USB drive on the PC. Meaning for archiving you really don't have to burn to a DVD. You can edit out commercials on the Archos and then transfer the edited material to an external USB HDD, to a PC via USB, or to another PC on your home network via wifi.
post #53 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by nextoo View Post

I chose to use external HDDs for archiving. There is an advantage over burning to DVD. It is two fold. First you retain the full high definition resolution. The is no downrez to 480i that happens when burning a DVD. You also retain the 5.1 audio. Personally, if I am looking for portability I will burn to a DVD but I find myself retaining the original high definition recording on the external HDDs for archiving purposes as well.

If these features are incorporated in the EchoStar TR-50 it will be a home run.

Absolutely, nextoo. The price of huge external HDD's is coming down rapidly, coupled with the fact that video recording doesn't need the pricey upper end drives the PC world does. I can get 500GB externals on line now for ~$100. I typically burn not to archive but to collect -- I'll collect a whole seasons worth of a program and wait until rerun season (or writer's strike) to watch. Using an external HDD as the collector is just fine with me, especially since it will keep the original HD format.

How many hours of HD programming can you fit on your 500GB in your DVR?
post #54 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelson View Post

How many hours of HD programming can you fit on your 500GB in your DVR?

If I remember correctly it is 60 hrs. on the 500GB drive that's in my ViP722. I think it is noted on the Dish site.

After I got the ViP722 I immediately hooked up an external USB 750GB. A Seagate bare drive I found cheap that I installed into one of the removable drive trays I have setup with my system. I currently have 99 HD movies "collected" on this drive with 57GB of storage remaining. All HD - no burning SD DVDs to manage to my previous cableco HD DVR with an internal 160GB drive.

Now if the drive craps out I'll be out 99 movies but the drive mostly sits powered down and is only used for playback or transfering of content. I think it will have a long life. And unlike cableco external SATA drives that are "married" to a particular STB with Dish the external drives are "married" to the Dish account. Meaning if the STB explodes the external USB drive can be used with a replacement STB.

Dish seems to be getting things right. I hope the TR-50 offers the sme flexibility.
post #55 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by nextoo View Post

Dish seems to be getting things right. I hope the TR-50 offers the sme flexibility.

Thanks again, I'll be watching very closely.
post #56 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by wabjxo View Post

First SONY DVD recorder I've seen from CES 2008!
  • RDR-HX715
  • DVD/hard disk recorder
  • 160GB hard drive
  • HDMI output
  • TV Guide EPG

MSRP = $700

For a single-tuner box with no HD recording?

So how much does the HD version cost? $2000?
post #57 of 130

This is from CES 2005. This model is almost three years old.
post #58 of 130
Thread Starter 
Thanks, got too excited! Deleted now.
post #59 of 130
"The DMR-EZ48V DVD/VHS combo and DMR-EZ28 DVD recorder step things up a bit further with ASTC Accutune digital tuners"

I'm confused here because I just bougth and returned the EZ47 model and it says it has this in it????
post #60 of 130
I think what they mean by "step things up" is that NOW they make models w/o a tuner. Last year they ALL had digital tuners. Just like marketing, take something away, and then add it to a more expensive model, then they say there "stepping things up"
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: DVD Recorders (Standard Def)
AVS › AVS Forum › Video Components › DVD Recorders (Standard Def) › CES 2008 - SDTV DVD Recorders