Dish DTVPal DVR (ex-Echostar TR-50) Official Speculation and Order Info Thread - Page 2

Can anyone verify that the TR-50 is a Two-ATSC-Tuner machine? I keep seeing descriptions like "ATSC/NTSC tuner," and "Watch one show while recording another, or record two shows while watching a previously-recorded show." Nowhere have I seen that you can watch/record two digital channels simultaneously. Can someone at CES ask this question?

Brad

I agree it looks more akin to the newly announced ViP612. So looking at the ViP612 may offer what the tr-50 may or may not be able to do.

As far as ATSC/NTSC tuners my guess is that both are ATSC/NTSC. I really don't see any point to including a stand alone NTSC tuner with Feb'09 right around the corner. Just an opinion though.

Why would there be an NTSC tuner? My 622 does not have an NTSC tuner. In fact having an analog NTSC tuner then would require a MPEG2/MPEG4 encoder to convert to digital for recording.

Also since this device is intended for post 17 Feb 09 there is no need for an NTSC tuner.

Rick R

I agree. I misspoke with my reference to ATSC/NTSC tuner comment. I meant to say i saw no reason for the NTSC tuner. Meaning both should be ATSC capable.

I guess my point is that everyone talks about this unit being like a 622/722/612 without the sat tuners - Well, those receivers each have ONE ATSC tuner and NO NTSC tuner, so nothing should be assumed here.

Brad

I'm glad it will have the manual programming option. I'm not gonna pay anyone money for a guide system, or one without a lot of on screen commercials. If I wanted to pay, I'd be using Tivo, OTA.
The guide thing is what kept me from purchasing one of the Sony HD DVR's of yesterday. It didn't have the manual option, now look where there headed. Unless they find a workaround, they will be a boat anchor, after '09.
Many companies aren't happy with making money on the initial hardware purchase. They want that monthly money. I'll hold out as long as I can.

edit- Well I found out later the Sony HD DVDR does have manual scheduling. Although for now, apparently it lacks a way for the clock to be set after Feb '09. Also since it does have a digital tuner for outputting to another device, it really won't be a boat anchor. Bad choice of words.

I guess I have to correct myself once more. The press release states ATSC and NTSC capabilities.

If you're waiting for perfection, you'll be waiting forever and will not have had the chance to enjoy the plusses of these technologies.

The TVGOS ads are very unobtrusive and easy to ignore. Heck, I couldn't even tell you what's being advertised in them right now. Even still, it's a small price to pay for the free service. And guide generations older than the 8th and 9th don't even get the ads. They have the space, but it remains empty. If you'd have been using TVGOS instead of manually timing all these earlier years since it's been around, you'd probably feel the same way about it as you feel about the difference between having an HDD or not in your DVD recorder, now that you've had the HDD. It just entails a couple of button presses, and you get a totally free, generally comprehensive guide to boot. And the service has consistently worked great for most users - you only hear about the problems here - not the good experiences, which are the vast majority of them.

As far as TVGOS and the Dish guides, like was mentioned earlier, you can easily set extra time before and after recordings. And the Sony (and all other TVGOS recorders) does and always did have the manual timer recording option - at least till next Feb.

One of the main reasons none of the few 480i HDD/DVD models that are out now don't thrill me very much is that they have no TVGOS. I could even accept the inferior quality of them if they at least had that one, redeeming feature, because my main reason for owning them is the DVR capability - I only occasionally record to DVD and I hardly ever watch pre-recorded ones.

No - at this point I probably wouldn't waste the money on a unit with an analog-based guide service, just to get a year's use out of it, if that proves to be the case. But if you'd have been experiencing it starting a few years back, like myself and many of the more longtime posters in the DVD Recorders forum have, I'm pretty sure you would feel it was well worth it, as they overwhelmingly do.

Ram, Don't get me wrong, I'm not waiting for perfection, I think I might really enjoy TVGOS, (if I knew what it was). Since I never had a Panny DVDR W/HDD I've never seen TVGOS. If the Echostar has the feature to over program a event, that should work great. I think what you may have noted on my post, was the "tv guide" feature on my Vizio, while nice, is very quirky. What I mean by that is, sometimes it lists programs 3 days in advance, sometimes only 3 hrs?? It's probably not TVGOS, but since I've never seen TVGOS, I don't know.
Like I said on my previous post, if anyone knows of a good thread explaining all the various "tv guide" type systems, I'd be glad to self educate myself. Thanks

No, it's nothing like TVGOS. The digital, PSIP guides are notoriously off in time and either have "No Information" or mistakes with the info often.

TVGOS is pretty comprehensive with it's info (similar to their publication) and features, and has always plainly just worked (other than the current problems some Sony and LG users seem to be having, which might in someway be related to the digital switchover of the service).

Comparing it to the provider's guides/recording systems, I'd maybe use the analogy of Open Office compared to Microsoft Office - generally, not as good with somewhat less features - after all, it's free - but most people who have it are perfectly satisfied with it, and some actually even prefer it. If you have simpler needs, it's more than adequate.

The best place to learn about TVGOS is on their website: www.tvgos.com. They actually have a demonstration on there you can watch.

From my experience with the Pioneer DVR/DVD recorder models, the reason people like to have manual recording capability ("record channel X at time Y please") without getting entangled with TVGOS / EPG is that sometimes the EPG function goes goofy and doesn't work for a while. On my unit I have to do a "TVGOS reset" a couple times a year because it gets stuck in a waiting-for-data mode. During those times that it's screwed up, manual override is useful. But most of the time it works great.

TVGOS has actually been getting worse for me lately because now all of my local stations at up with ATSC (including PBS in HD, finally, hooray), so I've tweaked my antenna to maximize those. Alas, the "old" NTSC DVR isn't picking up the TVGOS VBI data so well these days with the new antenna pointing.

With the Pioneer DVD recorders, it never worked - it wasn't implemented or integrated right.

Other than some earlier, Sharp flat panel and Toshiba RP LCD's from a few years back, I don't think there was ever any other consistent problems with it relating to any one brand.

That's not entirely true. All analog OTA TV broadcasts are not going away after Feb 17, 2009.

Low power and translator stations are explicitly exempted from that 2009 deadline, which means that viewers relying on such stations for some or all of their reception may continue to receive analog broadcasts after the deadline. This is especially an issue for viewers in some smaller markets where one or more network affiliates are low power stations -- and in rural areas where service is via translators.

Maybe I'm not the only one thinking this ... but it has to be said.

The specs are nice and perhaps the price will be right, but this thing is UGLY!!!!

Hopefully, they'll update the aestethics before they start making them for real.

ft

I'm glad to see that the FCC screws over folks other than just the cable companies, with their careless and generally overzealous regulation.

One small drawback of the 622 using the guide to record. I set the 622 to record the ABC Saturday Night football game a week in advance. The game was listed in the guide with the teams TBD. Two days before the game they changed the guide to list Saturday Night Football, USC vs Stanford. Since they deleted the old programming and inserted the new it deleted my timer. Thus when I came home the 622 had not recorded my show (I was at the game). I solved this by setting the start and end times of the recording so it would not be deleted. Alternatively I would check the timer just before the game.

Rick R

For those "TBD" live events you could set up a manual timer. If the grid changes the manual timer remains intact.

Ugly?

http://ces.cnet.com/8301-13855_1-9840910-67.html

Not really. No worse than HDTiVo:

http://www.slipperybrick.com/2007/07/tivo-hd/

But which do you prefer:

The Women's Club - Ugley (England) chapter, or The Ugley Women's Club?

The single thing I dislike most about TVGOS (when it's working right) is that a device using it must be off for its tuner to download guide info behind the scenes.

With dual digital tuners E*'s recorder may not need to be off, but might be capable of recording only one program at times. It will be interesting to see how the TR-50 actually works and whether the EPG will look similiar to Dishnetwork's but get data ala TVGOS.

Anyone else think this looks interesting? Streams 1080p movies on demand and also provides OTA DVR functionality. Echo - here is a competitor. Hope they can get some studio's on board. If not this may morph into a high-end HD DVR for streaming OTA content!

http://ces.cnet.com/8301-13855_1-984....html?tag=more

JD

But there is something I don't like after looking at the pictures. There's nothing visible that looks like a cooling fan. The curved top could be to keep anything from being placed on top.
http://ces.cnet.com/8301-13855_1-9840910-67.html
http://mysite.verizon.net/~fiosdvr/t...rear_large.jpg

TR-50's curved top actually made me think of another breakthrough device, the Terapin recorder. (Now that might be considered ugly or at least bizarre.) Uh oh!
http://www.videoguys.com/terapin.html

re: Terapin - lol.

I agree, it's ugly as sin. The worst part, for me, is that it's not rectangular, nor a standard rack size so it'll look twice as bad in a rack. At least the TIVO is a standard rack size.

The designers still worked in thought in terms of it being a 'set top' box, which the popularity of flat panels is quickly making a misnomer.

Looks pretty good; maybe it could be nicknamed "Charlie's Revenge" .

Wonder if it will be priced low enough (~$200 or so & no recurring fee) to really get Tivo's knickers in a twist?

no chance of having a 1394 output for transfering shows to DVHS??

What are the actual dimensions?

TiVo is reliable as hell but offers more than I need from OTA for the price. I'll definitely consider the E* TR-50 if priced in the low to middle $200's but if there's no cooling fan it'll have to wait for a track record. Remember the Dishplayer or early ReplayTV's for that matter.

Hopefully TiVo will develop S2 IR support for coupon eligible converters to retain S2 subs now that E* has fired the shot 'cross its bow!

couple of questions...this dvr has atsc tuner right? i have a samsung 260 hd tuner and i use that with my twc nyc service for all the ota hd channel. can this device pick up the hd signal also similar to my samsung 260 box?

and how big is the hdd for tr-50? if is it only 250 GB...i dont think u can record much..maybe like 20 hrs of tv shows. i want to be at least 1000 GB.

http://reviews.cnet.com/EchoStar_TR_...7-6826151.html

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...7#post12724177
"Dish hasn't yet specified the internal hard drive size, but the USB 2.0 connector will ensure expandable storage"