Authoring Blue-Ray on regular DVD-R DL - Page 3

Originally Posted by benes

Wrong. BDMV only requires AACS when it is on a *PRESSED* BD-ROM that is replicated at a factory. It is NOT required for BDMV on a home burned BD-R/E. This is the default format for Ulead which is probably the best authoring solution right now short of Scenarist. This is the format I burn all of my BD-RE with. They will work in any player*.

Originally Posted by paidgeek

Blu-ray players were never supposed to support BDMV authored content using ordinary data type BD-R or BD-RE media. An exemption was made for a number of months so that available blank discs could be used for testing and other promotional activities; this exemption expired recently.

Consumers will be able to record their own authored movies using recordable media designed for this purpose (as specified by AACS). This media is designed to stop copies of copies of copyrighted material, something we can't prevent right now with the current media and drives.

Originally Posted by benes

Correct. But AVCHD also supports menus.

Originally Posted by Neo1965

My two main complaint with AVCHD are ...(2) Current camcorders are really using 540 line CCDs and all video is interlaced, true 1080P camcorders are priced at ridiculously high numbers it's beyond reach of the hobbyists.

Originally Posted by benes

You have not even done any blu-ray authoring so I don't know why you are trying to pass yourself off as some kind of expert.

I've been doing this for almost 2 years now before the format was even launched. I have a little basis for my knowledge. And I was actually involved in that discussion with paidgeek and talkstr8t which is why I know that he later corrected his response in this post here:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...2#post11335652

First of all, for those who have been waiting for my follow-up post on this topic, thanks for your patience...

After doing some research, here is what I have been able to clarify.

Blu-ray players first manufactured after Spring of this year are required to support BD-RE v3.0 media (AACS enabled) for playback of recordings where copyright has been asserted (e.g. digital broadcast, managed copy from a Blu-ray movie and similar).
These same players may playback authored content from other sources (e.g. home movies) where copyright is not asserted from either BD-RE V3.0 or v2.1 (currently available) media.

An exception was made for players produced before Spring this year such that they may playback authored BD movie content from BD-RE V2.1 media, even though they may not support V3.0 media. The PS3 is already fully compliant with the latest requirements. Other players may or may not be depending on current firmware revisions.

The simple summary is that a consumer can author their own content as they wish using currently available media and play it back on any player that was released prior to Spring 07' as well as any player released since that time, provided that the player can support BD-RE V3.0 media. If a newer player cannot yet support that media type, then BD-RE 2.1 support can be enabled as soon as firmware allows the player to do so.

The specifications are designed not to inconvenience any customer who wants to author content they own.

Incidentally all of my BD-RE are v2.1 and I've tested them in multiple players.

You keep saying this without anything to back it up. BDMV and AVCHD are *exactly* the same thing. The only difference is that AVCHD is ostensibly limited to 1440x1080 AVC. But TSRemux allows you to get around this limitation.

Originally Posted by Evangelo2

While not a true BD disc, I can burn a AVC-HD disc and my Pio 95HD BD player recognizes it as a AVC-HD disc and plays it.
-Evangelo2

Originally Posted by benes

BDMV and AVCHD are *exactly* the same thing. The only difference is that AVCHD is ostensibly limited to 1440x1080 AVC. But TSRemux allows you to get around this limitation.

Originally Posted by benes

Use AVCHD for DVD-R and it will work on everything.

Originally Posted by BuGsArEtAsTy

AFAIK, some Samsung BD players didn't support AVCHD playback. I don't know if that's changed recently or not.

Originally Posted by benes

Wrong. BDMV only requires AACS when it is on a *PRESSED* BD-ROM that is replicated at a factory. It is NOT required for BDMV on a home burned BD-R/E. This is the default format for Ulead which is probably the best authoring solution right now short of Scenarist. This is the format I burn all of my BD-RE with. They will work in any player*.

*The only thing to keep in mind is that some players do not support burned media at all due to hardware or firmware limitations. Not unlike early dvd players.

Originally Posted by benes

Good find. We had to go to Vietnam just to get this info.

It could be that those players just don't support DVD-R media at all. Someone should test that.

Originally Posted by Everdog

The Sony S300 supports some burned media but not BD-REs. I think there are a number of players that do not support BD-REs.
http://www.sonystyle.com/webapp/wcs/...52921665088000
It supports ONLY, DVD+R/+RW, DVD-R/-RW4

Originally Posted by MozartMan

Sony updated firmware and S300 plays BDMV on BD-RE.

Originally Posted by jmpage2

There is a BD9 spec, but I'm not sure if it's mandatory that all players can do it. BD9 would be similar to how HD DVD does it, where a lower bitrate HD signal can be played with red laser from regular DVD9 media.

Originally Posted by benes

BD-9 was added at the last minute to the Blu-ray standard. I assume it is optional since some players do not support it (most notably the PS3).

Originally Posted by benes

Well obviously we at home are making DVD-R/W and not pressed discs. That is the topic of this thread. And unfortunately PS3 will not recognize these as Blu-ray format discs. I believe it used to work in an older firmware but they removed it.

Originally Posted by Neo1965

Current camcorders are really using 540 line CCDs and all video is interlaced, true 1080P camcorders are priced at ridiculously high numbers it's beyond reach of the hobbyists.

Originally Posted by Talkstr8t

BD-9 is a mandatory feature of Blu-ray, and all players should support it. Note that BD-9 only applies to pressed discs, not DVD-R or -RW.

Originally Posted by Talkstr8t

I agree it's not possible to burn DVD-R/RW other than as AVCHD (or some derivative thereof). BD-9 is targeted at a different market, however (short form commercial content, independent movies, etc.).

Originally Posted by Jim5506

I am totally new to this subject.

I use PVRExplorer Pro to extract HD programs directly off the hard drive of my Dish Network ViP 622. They are saved as MPEG2 files and I edit them (remove commercials, etc) with Video Redo plus (ver 2.5.6 512 June 15 2007) and copy the file directly to a DVD+R with my DVD burner. Video Redo reports them as 1080X1440.

Is there a Blu-Ray or HD-DVD player that will play these DVD's as they are? I can play them on any PC with either Windows Media player or Intervideo Win-DVD but I'd like to have a stand-alone HD player with component and/or HDMI output that would play them also.

If not, what can I do to the files to make them readable on Bluy-Ray or HD-DVD?

Originally Posted by Neo1965

Current camcorders are really using 540 line CCDs and all video is interlaced, true 1080P camcorders are priced at ridiculously high numbers it's beyond reach of the hobbyists.

Originally Posted by MovieSwede

Thats not so bad as it sounds.

Since CCDs are analouge devices they behave a little different from devices like cmos.

There is a tech called pixelshift that extract extra data from the spatial offset of the 3ccd system.

So in best case scenario you can extract 1,5x extra resolution from the scan of the cdds.

So if you use 16:9 shaped progressive CCDs of 960*540 (60P) and utilise this tech you could in theory get as much as 1440*810 in luma. So while this isnt 1080 lines. You should remember that interlace recordings cant give you 1080 lines because of the interlace flicker that would occur.

So if you have a storage format of 1440*1080 (as is supported by AVCHD) and record in 60i you would have about 1296*756 as the highest practical resolution.

So in theory a camcorder scan system that gives 1440*810 60P and record it on a 1440*1080 60i stream would do alright.

But how each camcorder works in real life conditions is another question.


The handheld camera they used in Cloverfield also only has 3ccds of 960*540.

Originally Posted by Everdog

What about cmos? I have 1440*1080 60i cmos (3MP) camcorder and after I purchased it, several people told me that cmos should look better...of course they had no idea why.

Originally Posted by BuGsArEtAsTy

Anyone know how Roxio Toast 9 Titanium is dealing with Blu-ray on DVD?

Toast 9 Titanium: http://www.roxio.com/enu/products/to.../overview.html

Toast's HD/BD plugin: http://www.roxio.com/enu/products/to.../overview.html

If you're a TiVo HD or Eye TV owner you know that it's a great way to record and watch high-def TV. With Toast 9 and the HD/BD plug-in you can archive all the high-def shows you want by burning them to Blu-ray or standard DVD discs for playback on any Blu-ray compatible set top box.

Originally Posted by MovieSwede

Well the sensor is just one part of a chain of devices.

But an advantage of CMOS is that it gets an individual pixel readout and get a better performance from a single CCD device. Its easier for the in camera processing to interpolate the different pixeldata from a bayer pattern as an example.

But on the other hand, CMOS isnt as lightsensitive as CCD wich is very crucial for homecamcorders.

It also has issues with rolling shutters instead of global shutters. This can make strobing lights such as lightning harder to film.

But as I wrote, the CMOS stongest advantage is that it can with one chip rival 3 CCDs. And that makes cameras cheaper and smaller.

So a camera like RED uses one chip and an even more expensive camera like the Sony F950 uses 3CCD.

Originally Posted by latreche34

I have a lot of HD movies that I've recorded from Dish Network in HD MPEG2 TS using my Dish 6000 with R5000-HD mod, was wondering if I can make Blue-Ray format on regular DVD-R DL even if it takes 2 or 3 discs as long as I keep the high quality of the video and AC-3 audio so I will be able to play them on my playstation 3, I know I can play them as Data Disc if converted them to MPEG2 PS using videoredo, But I just want to go for this option for fun purposes, I have roxio 9 it does author in blue ray but it won't let you save disc image it copy stright to blu-ray disc.

Originally Posted by eapleitez

As far as I know, you can't do that with blu-ray. Another reason why HD DVD is more consumer friendly and the better format.

Originally Posted by aka_dnv

hd dvd's passed on! This format is no more! It has ceased to be! hddvd's expired and gone to meet its maker! hddvd's a stiff! Bereft of life, it rests in peace! If you hadn't nailed im to the perch it'd be pushing up the daisies! Its metabolic processes are now history! its off the twig! kicked the bucket, shuffled off its mortal coil, run down the curtain and joined the bleedin' choir invisibile! HD DVD IS AN EX-FORMAT!!

Originally Posted by aka_dnv

hd dvd's passed on! This format is no more! It has ceased to be! hddvd's expired and gone to meet its maker!