or Connect
AVS › AVS Forum › Blu-ray & HD DVD › HDTV Software Media Discussion › If bluray wins, how will they ween users off of DVD's?
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

If bluray wins, how will they ween users off of DVD's? - Page 6  

post #151 of 275
Quote:
Originally Posted by whippersnapper View Post

Well, now that the public confusion over high definition video media is about to exit stage left, "they" won't have to do anything to "wean foks off of standard DVD.

The maxim that applies is "If you build it, they will come". Simply put good quality Blu-ray video discs out there, along with good quality Blu-ray players (available at reasonable prices) and folks will migrate themselves to high definition.

The confusion won't be over until CEMs stop producing and selling 1080p upconverting players.
post #152 of 275
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikemorel View Post

Note that the typical downloader is 29 years old and male; which IMO is someone who should be in the market for HDM.

So 25 million Americans download movies off the internet; countless others copy movies off of optical disc. That is a lot of people who really don't necessarily want to upgrade to a more DRM laden format.

IMO unless HDM players and discs costs the same as DVD players and discs, people will have little incentive to move to HDM. I thought HD DVD had the best shot at that in the shortest amount of time. We shall see how long it takes to get blu-ray to that point.

What I find interesting is these companies are not learning a thing from watching the music industry. Right now they're getting some protection from limited internet bandwidth and storage medium relative to the size of the video files, but it hasn't been very many years since the same situation existed for music. Now music is an almost trivial amount of data to download and store.
post #153 of 275
Here's one thing they can do... for a particular price range where both DVD and Blu-ray players exist, market the blu-ray player as a "DVD player that also plays blu-ray disks!" And remove the DVD-only players from the market in that price bracket.

This way, we sell players to people who are still in the quality DVD mindset, but they get blu-ray capability too.
post #154 of 275
Quote:
Originally Posted by DougPr View Post

At least with dual format discs, it was a possibility that once prices got a little lower, they could stop producing the DVD versions of movies and force people to get the dual format versions, pushing people into having HD media for an easy switch.

With that not as a possibility on bluray discs, how will the companies ween consumers over to HD? People will not want to buy a Disney Bluray disc that cannot play in their kid's room or in the car. I"m sure there are many other movies that will fall under that same criteria.

Can bluray win against DVD without any way to draw consumers away from DVD? At least dual format discs provided a possible way to do it.

First of all, Blu-ray doesn't have to "win against DVD" in order to be successful. As long as Blu-ray is profitable and worth the efforts of movie studios, software developers, and hardware developers, both Blu-ray and DVD's can coexist in the optical media market. Also, the adoption of Blu-ray is like most any other media and product. Those who are on the fence can now feel more confident in buying Blu-ray. HD enthusiasts who favored HD DVD without fanboyism will be adopting Blu-ray for the first time or will be buying more Blu-ray than when Blu-ray was their secondary HDM collection after HD DVD. Then, you have online and brick and mortar store advertising and demonstrating Blu-ray. From private demonstrations (consumers who have/soon to have Blu-ray) to store displays, this will draw the curiosity of new adopters, especially those who have already bought HDTV's. You get a combination of advertising and word of mouth along with steady price decreases of players and media from the adoption of Blu-ray. This will drive more people to adopt Blu-ray as an optical format. And as implied earlier, DVD's do not have to be "dead" for blu-ray to succeed. To think so gives the false impression that Blu-ray is destined to fail when in fact Blu-ray is geared towards the HD consumer. The purchase of HDTV's are increasing and will continue to increase which can only help the adoption of Blu-ray as the standards HD optical format.
post #155 of 275
Quote:
Originally Posted by talon95 View Post

What I find interesting is these companies are not learning a thing from watching the music industry. Right now they're getting some protection from limited internet bandwidth and storage medium relative to the size of the video files, but it hasn't been very many years since the same situation existed for music. Now music is an almost trivial amount of data to download and store.

But here's the thing. A lot of people such as myself still prefer to listen to music at it's highest quality. Therefore, I still buy CD's because it serves as my master copy of best quality to rip at any rate in whatever format I choose. And it would be wise to back up you downloaded music. Guess what? The pre-recorded CD I bought serves as that as well. Those are the reasons why the CD market is still viable. And how much hard drive space will it take for me to store 30 HD 1080p movies with all the extras? And shouldn't it be best for me to back those up as well? And what if I want to lend out a couple of copies of my movies? Therefore, the pre-recorded optical storage route is still the best option until high capacity optical media burners (like Blu-ray) and high capacity hard drives (terrabytes) are common place in homes, and the super fast internet infrastructure around the world is in place. For the foreseeable future, an optical media such as Blu-ray will do.
post #156 of 275
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jordahn View Post

But here's the thing. A lot of people such as myself still prefer to listen to music at it's highest quality. Therefore, I still buy CD's because it serves as my master copy of best quality to rip at any rate in whatever format I choose. And it would be wise to back up you downloaded music. Guess what? The pre-recorded CD I bought serves as that as well. Those are the reasons why the CD market is still viable. And how much hard drive space will it take for me to store 30 HD 1080p movies with all the extras? And shouldn't it be best for me to back those up as well? And what if I want to lend out a couple of copies of my movies? Therefore, the pre-recorded optical storage route is still the best option until high capacity optical media burners (like Blu-ray) and high capacity hard drives (terrabytes) are common place in homes, and the super fast internet infrastructure around the world is in place. For the foreseeable future, an optical media such as Blu-ray will do.

In the case of CD you can buy it and play in your high quality equipment but you can also rip it to play into your MP3 player.

If the same could be done with HDM (i.e. rip a 480p to play in legacy DVD's) I would be more likely to purchase. Would be nice too to be able to rip a 1080p to a media server to.
post #157 of 275
Quote:
Originally Posted by BritInVA View Post

In the case of CD you can buy it and play in your high quality equipment but you can also rip it to play into your MP3 player.

If the same could be done with HDM (i.e. rip a 480p to play in legacy DVD's) I would be more likely to purchase. Would be nice too to be able to rip a 1080p to a media server to.

Yes, I do know I can copy DVD files from a pre-recorded DVD on to my hard drive (as I'm sure we all knew that). Does the same apply for a Blu-ray PC drive, I do not know. But from my point of view, I see it more advantageous to rip from a CD to an mp3 player since mp3 players have already received wide adoption while the portability of a 1080p HDM and its extras still seems to be more convenient on the optical media itself for the time being.
post #158 of 275
What if studios started pricing the widescreen version of DVD movies closer the HDM price? Anybody know what the mix of Fullscreen to Widescreen DVDs are these days? Many of the people purchasing Widescreen today are ideal candidates for HDM.
post #159 of 275
Only if the studios (which also sell DVD's) force a switch will it succeed. They must have the will power to do that.

They forced CD's over LP's and cassettes, VHS over Betamax, DVD's over LD's and VHS, etc. etc.

All advertising of videos must make DVD seem like a diminished and less exciting format and put Blu-ray front and center.
post #160 of 275
The only chance HDM had against DS-DVD was combo format. Produce combo format with few extras on SD side and a rich experience with as many extras that would fit on the HD side. If the studio wanted to really go nuts with a special edition then press it in HD only with two or more discs.

Too bad Blu-Ray can't (to the best of my knowledge) do combo format.
post #161 of 275
Quote:
Originally Posted by webdev511 View Post

The only chance HDM had against DS-DVD was combo format. Produce combo format with few extras on SD side and a rich experience with as many extras that would fit on the HD side. If the studio wanted to really go nuts with a special edition then press it in HD only with two or more discs.

Too bad Blu-Ray can't (to the best of my knowledge) do combo format.

I think is this is a good idea, but I believe that you can get the same effect by pushing the extras to the Blu-ray disc. There really are a number of subtle things that studios can do to encourage Blu-ray adoption.
post #162 of 275
Does anyone here honesty thinks in their heart of hearts that in order for Blu-ray to succeed, DVD's must die to be COMPLETELY replaced by Blu-ray? Why, in what time period, and any parallels from past trends that can be drawn from?
post #163 of 275
Problem is as it continues to remain is the fact the only good Blu-ray device is the PS3.
The standalones suffer from problems that IMO will wind up killing BD!
The players are too expensive and can not be upgraded to future disc specs, as it seems to be a PS3 exclusive.
A Game system is not going to turn people away from their DVD's!

IMO Blu-Ray killed the HDM format ATM, unfortunitly we will have wait for it to be buried untill another format can play with DVD.

HD DVD was the only sure fire bet in getting people closer to HDM media, but Warners gave in too soon as I think they should have waited a bit longer to make their decision.
post #164 of 275
In my mind, the goal is not to kill DVD. The goal is to get critical mass for Blu-ray adoption. This requires getting a significant number of people to shift their investments from DVD to Blu-ray.
post #165 of 275
Quote:
Originally Posted by DougPr View Post

People were weened off of VHS because DVD offered a completely superior experience and especially in one key area: Convenience.

No longer did you have to rewind your tapes.
No longer did you have to mess with your tracking to get the picture right.
No longer did they take up a large amount of space in your movie rack.

Where does bluray offer the same convenient experience over DVD? Improved picture and sound appeals to AV guys, but I don't see it as the DVD replacement that these new Warner Bros moves are trying to usher in.

I agree, plus I also look at it like this...

Take a home CD player and, say, 100 songs (100 CD's), and compare that to an MP3 with 100 songs. Which takes up less room? Big difference.

Take a home DVD player and say, 100 movies, and compare that to a Blu-ray player and, say, 100 movies. Which takes up less room? About the same.

What ever replaces DVD, will not be yet another 5" spinning disc.
post #166 of 275
Other than lowering the price of the discs to a level comparable with DVD, good luck with that. Once there is 1200+ titles with new releases being under $20-$24 at Best Buy, there is a slight chance it could catch on, but they better hurry up.
post #167 of 275
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jordahn View Post

Does anyone here honesty thinks in their heart of hearts that in order for Blu-ray to succeed, DVD's must die to be COMPLETELY replaced by Blu-ray? Why, in what time period, and any parallels from past trends that can be drawn from?

I don't think so. BR as a disc format would have been a viable format with the PS3 and PC drives alone. However, I don't believe it will ever get to a point where it will succeed the way DVD did.
post #168 of 275
Quote:
Originally Posted by miata View Post

I think is this is a good idea, but I believe that you can get the same effect by pushing the extras to the Blu-ray disc. There really are a number of subtle things that studios can do to encourage Blu-ray adoption.

This is true. If the whole industry is pushing a single format they can promote if from a DVD. In fact I think I have already seen that on standard dvd promoting blu-ray and I think that will be effective for sure.

It would have been a lot more effective to tell consumers on the standard dvd how they can unlock and view the hd version of the movie on the disk they already have by simply picking up a low priced player, but the BD will have some success anyway from sheer force of marketing.
post #169 of 275
Quote:
Originally Posted by DougPr View Post

At least with dual format discs, it was a possibility that once prices got a little lower, they could stop producing the DVD versions of movies and force people to get the dual format versions, pushing people into having HD media for an easy switch.

With that not as a possibility on bluray discs, how will the companies ween consumers over to HD? People will not want to buy a Disney Bluray disc that cannot play in their kid's room or in the car. I"m sure there are many other movies that will fall under that same criteria.

Can bluray win against DVD without any way to draw consumers away from DVD? At least dual format discs provided a possible way to do it.

The more I talk to people, the more I find they really don't give a crap.
post #170 of 275
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Hitchman View Post

Only if the studios (which also sell DVD's) force a switch will it succeed. They must have the will power to do that.

They forced CD's over LP's and cassettes, VHS over Betamax, DVD's over LD's and VHS, etc. etc.

Studios can't "force" a format. That would be suicide. They don't have a desire to force a format either. They just want to sell their content. How that content is delivered to the consumer don't really matter.

The formats you list above were not forced. As consumer demand increased, they fazed out the other format. Had there been no demand, the format wouldn't survive. You can't sell something if there isn't demand.

This is the problem with HDM. The demand has been very low so far. Some are blaming the 2 formats as part of the problem. We'll see if one format will help.

The problem, in my opinion, is that HD DVD was "more" ready for prime time than Blu-ray. It also had an "upgrade" path (combo disc). While I believe that Blu-ray will get there, I hope that it's not to late when it does. Blu-ray's competition isn't DVD now. It's digital media.

My guess is that Blu-ray will become a niche format. A high-end format. There is a market for this and I'm OK with it. For those that want the best picture and sound for the theater room, this is way they'll get. I think the same probably would have happened with HD DVD, but combo disc was the difference. Studios could release one package and satisfy 2 markets.

Now if the BDA manufacturers would just sell a decently priced 2.0 player, I'll be able to jump in (for my non-family movies).

John
post #171 of 275
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jordahn View Post

Does anyone here honesty thinks in their heart of hearts that in order for Blu-ray to succeed, DVD's must die to be COMPLETELY replaced by Blu-ray? Why, in what time period, and any parallels from past trends that can be drawn from?

Yes. SACD.
post #172 of 275
Quote:
Originally Posted by miata View Post

In my mind, the goal is not to kill DVD. The goal is to get critical mass for Blu-ray adoption. This requires getting a significant number of people to shift their investments from DVD to Blu-ray.

Right, and this is what I feel the uphil battle will be. Like many of you, I have shown friends and family members my modest yet pretty impressive HD media setup consisting of a plasma TV, PS3, A2, and mid-tier AV PCM receiver with decent speakers. The reaction I get? "Wow, that looks and sounds really nice...cool!".

Then, the conversation quickly changes and noone seems to care *that* much. I try to explain the details and usually hit the "I dont need anything that elaborate" argument or the "Too much money" argument.

We'll see, but if my friends and family are the "norm", we are in for one helluva fight!
post #173 of 275
do you guys think that Toshiba will ever announce that they lost the format war, because they still have 3 exclusive major studios and if those studios stay with HD DVD then i believe toshiba can stay in it, dual format players can become the norm, and if dual becomes the norm studios can jump back and forth to the other format if they wanted to
post #174 of 275
i think it all boils down to what the retailers will be able to move.
post #175 of 275
Quote:
Originally Posted by talon95 View Post

Yep, same story here. I'm an engineer at a large aircraft company. A majority of the people I work with have HDTV's of some sort, but so far only one of them that I know has bought a HDM player. The rest have the attitude that is being expressed/suggested in this thread. DVD is more than good enough for them (most have sub 50" displays) and pretty much all of them have multiple DVD players (family room, bedroom, kids room, car, computer, etc...).

I think this is the real problem with Blu-Ray. Good business moves may have gotten it ahead of HD DVD, but it cannot and will not replace DVD without combo discs. If Warner was able to put HD DVD and Blu-Ray on one disc, there must be a way to put DVD and Blu-Ray on a disc.
post #176 of 275
DVD won't go out for quite a while. I used to work at Blockbuster for the past two years and I can't tell you how many people 1) got pissed because we discontinued VHS tapes and 2) JUST bought their first DVD player. Also when we got our first line of HD-DVDs and BRs, people were pretty upset that a new standard was already coming out. "But we just got DVD!!!!".

Our government and cable/satellite companies need to start PUSHING and FORCING HDTVs and HD programming. But that's just my opinion.
post #177 of 275
Quote:
Originally Posted by sixstorm View Post

Our government and cable/satellite companies need to start PUSHING and FORCING HDTVs and HD programming. But that's just my opinion.

A valid opinion, but do you think that'll ever happen, especially after seeing all the delays and hoops everyone had to jump through just to set a mandatory switch date from NTSC to ATSC?
post #178 of 275
Quote:
Originally Posted by JAC6 View Post

How about doing more of the same: offer a better product and watch volumes increase and prices decrease. As people buy more HDTVs and replace DVD players, they will buy Blu-Ray. It is a better product and it will soon cost only marginally more than DVD. That's how DVD replaced VHS, CD replaced tapes, etc. There is no hurry now that there is one format. Holiday 2008 will likely be the sweet spot for significant adoption.

This is yet another thread premised on the false assumption that Blu-Ray has to completely replace DVD next week or HDM dies. That is false, as is every argument constructed on that erroneous foundation.

After reading pages of posts, I hold to my initial postion. There's no hurry at all and there's little perspective in the days after the Warner announcement but before HD-DVD throws in the towel. Once that happens (and I think it will happen, but we need not discuss it here), and we see a few months of consumer behavior, then we can address this issue with some actual insight.
post #179 of 275
Quote:
Originally Posted by interpol View Post

A valid opinion, but do you think that'll ever happen, especially after seeing all the delays and hoops everyone had to jump through just to set a mandatory switch date from NTSC to ATSC?


Yeah, I know. The government could care less about our entertainment lol.

I'm sorry but HDTVs are CHEAP now, the prices have just dropped like crazy since I was shopping for one back in 2006. I don't understand why anyone could NOT afford one. What's funny is that most people think that the digital switch next year means that people will have to buy a HDTV . . . maybe everybody should be scared into thinking that lol.
post #180 of 275
Quote:
Originally Posted by sixstorm View Post

Yeah, I know. The government could care less about our entertainment lol.

I'm sorry but HDTVs are CHEAP now, the prices have just dropped like crazy since I was shopping for one back in 2006. I don't understand why anyone could NOT afford one. What's funny is that most people think that the digital switch next year means that people will have to buy a HDTV . . . maybe everybody should be scared into thinking that lol.

one could only hope it would be good for the economy.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: HDTV Software Media Discussion
This thread is locked  
AVS › AVS Forum › Blu-ray & HD DVD › HDTV Software Media Discussion › If bluray wins, how will they ween users off of DVD's?