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Scrambled Locals via Cable. Is this legal?

post #1 of 20
1/10/08 at 9:53am
Thread Starter 
I subscribe to basic cable (no set top box, the cable goes straight into my HDTV) to access to the HD locals that Dish doesn't provide in my area. They have started to scramble these channels, first ABC, now NBC. Is this legal? Can anyone direct me to the specific FCC reg so I can set them straight?
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post #2 of 20
1/10/08 at 10:52am
Even if you had something in writing the cable co could still ignore you. You need to go to the local gov't authority that regulates\\franchises them - they might listen to them.
Are you sure they are scrambled and not just moved or temporarily off?
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post #3 of 20
1/10/08 at 11:06am
There are some cable companies that have not followed the FCC guidence or that have reduced the number of Zip codes that they provide unencrypted locals for based on the ability of those zip codes to easily receive the channels with an antenna. Also some cable companies require to subscribe to digital service in order for you to receive any QAM channels.
I suggest that you go to the AVS subfourm for HD service for your location to see what other users in your area are experiencing.
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post #4 of 20
1/10/08 at 11:10am
Thread Starter 
I called and asked if they had moved and they said they hadn't, and that no one else had complained. Then they looked up my account and told me I shouldn't be receiving HDTV without being a "digital subscriber" and asked me if I had any descrambling equipment in the house. I am waiting for a call back from the local engineer.
Quote:
Originally Posted by walford View Post

There are some cable companies that have not followed the FCC guidence or that have reduced the number of Zip codes that they provide unencrypted locals for based on the ability of those zip codes to easily receive the channels with an antenna. Also some cable companies require to subscribe to digital service in order for you to receive any QAM channels.
I suggest that you go to the AVS subfourm for HD service for your location to see what other users in your area are experiencing.

I'm right in the center of town, I just don't want to put up an antenna. As a matter of fact, I'm in the same Zip Code as the cable company. The channels were there until recently, and several remain, just no ABC and NBC now. As to my AVS subforum, there are only two or three active posters, and the thing goes dead for months at a time. We're DMA #158.
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post #5 of 20
1/10/08 at 11:21am
AFAIK... the cableco is only required to provide local channels. As long as they are provided in analog, there is no FCC mandate they also must provide as unencrypted digital.
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post #6 of 20
1/10/08 at 1:19pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ratman View Post

AFAIK... the cableco is only required to provide local channels. As long as they are provided in analog, there is no FCC mandate they also must provide as unencrypted digital.

That is unfortunate. It must have been something (scrambling local HD) they just hadn't gotten around to until now. No biggie, I'll just cancel and go back to my antenna for HD locals. What about when ana
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post #7 of 20
1/10/08 at 3:04pm
What cable company is this? A little one?

My understanding is that broadcast channels must be carried on the basic tier, and the basic tier must be unencrypted (unless a waiver is granted due to theft of service problems).

I looked it up once, but I don't have a link handy.
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post #8 of 20
1/10/08 at 3:07pm
Did you try doing a rescan? Comcast shuffles the unencrypted QAM channels around sometimes here. They've never moved the HD locals AFAIK though.
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post #9 of 20
1/10/08 at 4:56pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Luke M View Post

My understanding is that broadcast channels must be carried on the basic tier, and the basic tier must be unencrypted.

Correct... but not specific to digital or analog. If they provide locals in analog, they do not have to carry the digital counterpart in digital unencrypted. AFAIK
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post #10 of 20
1/11/08 at 7:07am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ratman View Post

Correct... but not specific to digital or analog. If they provide locals in analog, they do not have to carry the digital counterpart in digital unencrypted. AFAIK

I don't remember the exact reg, but I know that due to recent changes, cable providers that carry locals in digital cable are in fact required to provide them unencrypted. Unfortunately, as the thread starter has noticed, many don't bother. My suggestion - go to the FCC's web site and file a complaint. Seriously, just do it.
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post #11 of 20
1/11/08 at 7:56am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eagles Dare View Post

Did you try doing a rescan? Comcast shuffles the unencrypted QAM channels around sometimes here. They've never moved the HD locals AFAIK though.

I did a rescan last night and NBC-HD is indeed, gone.

Quote:
Originally Posted by demonfoo View Post

I don't remember the exact reg, but I know that due to recent changes, cable providers that carry locals in digital cable are in fact required to provide them unencrypted. Unfortunately, as the thread starter has noticed, many don't bother. My suggestion - go to the FCC's web site and file a complaint. Seriously, just do it.

The cable company is Bresnan, HQed in Billings,MT and they do not allow calls to the local facility, so I'm still waiting for a call back. I've spent some time searching the FCC site, but I haven't found anything yet. I have the ear of the technical supervisor in Billings, so I'll let her know I'm going to file a complaint if I don't hear from the local facility today. A link to the new reg would be GREATLY appreciated.
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post #12 of 20
1/11/08 at 8:06am
If you are located in the same Zip code as networks antennas I sould think a small piece of coathanger or miniture rabbit ears would be all you would need for an antenna.
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post #13 of 20
1/11/08 at 8:32am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by walford View Post

If you are located in the same Zip code as networks antennas I sould think a small piece of coathanger or miniture rabbit ears would be all you would need for an antenna.

Unfortunately, we are in a valley and the towers for the locals are mounted on two different mesas above the valley. Half of the locals are easy to pick up, the other half are in a completely different direction about 17 miles away (and thousands of feet above) the town. It takes a rotor system to get all of the locals without breakup.
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post #14 of 20
1/11/08 at 9:32am
Are the stations you are no longer getting unencrypted the same ones that are harder to recieve without a good antenna from your location?
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post #15 of 20
1/11/08 at 9:33am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by walford View Post

Are the stations you are no longer getting unencrypted the same ones that are harder to recieve without a good antenna from your location?

One is , one isn't.
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post #16 of 20
1/11/08 at 3:53pm
From what I understand, someone correct me if I'm wrong, is that the FCC requires must-carry local HD channels to be unscrambled. The FCC also requires retransmission consentr local HD channels to be unscrambled UNLESS the cable company has explicit permission to scramble the signal in the retransmission consent agreement. Some stations are granting this permission in exchange for a lot more money from the cable system for retransmission consent. Also, I think that any imported out-of market HD channels can be scrambled unless the retransmission consent agreement expressly prohibits it.
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post #17 of 20
1/12/08 at 2:38pm
The following are from some notes that I had made in November:

Part 76.56 of the FCC regulations state:
Quote:
(d) Availability of signals. (1) Local commercial television stations carried in fulfillment of the requirements of this section shall be provided to every subscriber of a cable system. Such signals shall be viewable via cable on all television receivers of a subscriber which are connected to a cable system by a cable operator or for which a cable operator provides a connection

While those rules were written before the advent of commercial digital TV, the FCC Report & Order Regarding Carriage of Digital Television Broadcast Signals (FCC Document 01-22) clarifies this:
Quote:
102. In the context of analog must carry, it has been the Commission's view that the Act contemplates there be
one basic service tier.308 We believe that in the context of the new digital carriage requirements, it is consistent with the
statutory language to require that a broadcaster's digital signal must be available on a basic tier such that all broadcast
signals are available to all cable subscribers at the lowest priced tier of service, as Congress envisioned. The basic service
tier, including any broadcast signals carried, will continue to be under the jurisdiction of the local franchising authority, and
as such, will be rate regulated if the local franchising authority has been certified under Section 623 of the Act. 309

Now there a couple of "gotchas" here that might apply.
  • Many of these cable regulations do not apply to smaller cable systems (that might be the case here).
  • It could be that they are not scrambling these channels, but that there is a filter in place that effectively keeps them from your home. The QAM channels used are frequently at higher frequencies and the filters installed to restrict access to "expanded basic" may be blocking them (TW in my area has recently been changing these filters to pass the QAM channels).
A final comment: Cable systems (particularly small ones) may not have really come to grips with these requirements. Their mentality has been that this is "digital cable" and their people tend to deal with it that way - not really knowing what is required.
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post #18 of 20
1/12/08 at 8:09pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by audiomagnate View Post

I called and asked if they had moved and they said they hadn't, and that no one else had complained. Then they looked up my account and told me I shouldn't be receiving HDTV without being a "digital subscriber" and asked me if I had any descrambling equipment in the house. I am waiting for a call back from the local engineer.

Rest assured, the phone rep you spoke to was clueless as to what QAM is and even though you may have mentioned it, it went in one ear and out the other. Do this: Call and ask them what the QAM channel assignment is for your local NBC, CBS, and so on. They'll tell you the standard channel assignment that you see when using their set-top.

You won't be getting a call from any engineers either.... They know what you're doing or trying to do and know that there's nothing "wrong" or illegal going on.
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post #19 of 20
1/12/08 at 9:27pm
You may want to try to amp your signal a little see if the hd channel comes back with a re-program of your tv. Hd signal strength needs to be there, or you can lose channels.
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post #20 of 20
1/13/08 at 8:17am
Digital TV tuners can suffer from too little signal strength and nothing will be received, and they can also suffer from too strong a signal overloading the tuner and again nothing is received.
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