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How to use analog audio with hdmi video

post #1 of 25
1/12/08 at 1:13am
Thread Starter 
I have a couple Sony KDF 50" projection LCD's with an HDMI input with optional analog L/R inputs on INPUT 6

I am trying to use hdmi but use the analog L/R input jacks for audio.
There does not seem to be a way to switch to the analog inputs, that I can find. So I assume that the tv automatically uses the hdmi audio.

If I convert the hdmi to dvi, then back to hmdi, will this effectively strip out the audio? and trick the tv to then accept the analog audio inputs?

If you're curious why I want to do this, I have a SA8300HD STB box that I want to run DD to the AVR, and run analog audio to the tv. The tv does not have a DD decoder on it.

I'm surprised this isn't a more prevalent issue? I searched all over and couldn't find any threads on this.
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post #2 of 25
1/12/08 at 8:45am
Does the set top box have an audio setting for the HDMI output? If you can output 2 channels over HDMI to the TV, that might take care of your problem.
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post #3 of 25
1/12/08 at 9:33am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BIslander View Post

Does the set top box have an audio setting for the HDMI output? If you can output 2 channels over HDMI to the TV, that might take care of your problem.

These are the choices I have on STB audio: hdmi, DD, or 2 channel
I tried 2 channel but tv has no sound. tv will only play sound when hdmi cable is used when set to hdmi.
The STB does have analog outputs L/R. but I can't figure out how to get the Sony tv to use the analog inputs.
It seems like such an easy problem but I just can't get it to work.
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post #4 of 25
1/12/08 at 2:11pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3Gps View Post

These are the choices I have on STB audio: hdmi, DD, or 2 channel
I tried 2 channel but tv has no sound. tv will only play sound when hdmi cable is used when set to hdmi.
The STB does have analog outputs L/R. but I can't figure out how to get the Sony tv to use the analog inputs.
It seems like such an easy problem but I just can't get it to work.

For most TVs, the audio follows the video, meaning if you select the HDMI input, your set will only look there for audio. The set will probably only use the analog audio inputs if you are feeding it composite or component video, a source without audio. And, from what you say about your set top box, it sounds like it doesn't offer you the choice of what audio to send over HDMI - DD or 2 channel - which is unfortunate.

You may want to check with the manufacturer of your STB or look it up on Wikipedia. Sorry, but I can't help beyond that.
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post #5 of 25
1/12/08 at 3:35pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BIslander View Post

For most TVs, the audio follows the video, meaning if you select the HDMI input, your set will only look there for audio. The set will probably only use the analog audio inputs if you are feeding it composite or component video, a source without audio. And, from what you say about your set top box, it sounds like it doesn't offer you the choice of what audio to send over HDMI - DD or 2 channel - which is unfortunate.

You may want to check with the manufacturer of your STB or look it up on Wikipedia. Sorry, but I can't help beyond that.

Please see the picture below. Input 7 has both hdmi and a pair of L/R audio inputs. The question really becomes, how do I get the tv to select the L/R inputs vs. using the hdmi audio.
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post #6 of 25
1/12/08 at 3:57pm
Just a guess. Maybe if you use a DVI cable or an HDMI/DVI cable from the STB to the TV, the set will look for audio on the R/L inputs because it's not on the HDMI path. If the information is not in the manual, a call to your set's tech support would seem to be in order.
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post #7 of 25
1/12/08 at 5:07pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3Gps View Post

If you're curious why I want to do this, I have a SA8300HD STB box that I want to run DD to the AVR, and run analog audio to the tv. The tv does not have a DD decoder on it.

I'm surprised this isn't a more prevalent issue? I searched all over and couldn't find any threads on this.

It's not obvious why you need to do this. I had an SA8300HD hooked up to my TV with HDMI and also by optical cable to my AVR. No problem. The TV sound worked (for both analog and digital channels) and the sound through my AVR also worked. I guess HDMI carries analog as well as digital audio. Now I've got a D* satellite receiver, and it works the same way.
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post #8 of 25
1/12/08 at 7:37pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by GregLee View Post

It's not obvious why you need to do this. I had an SA8300HD hooked up to my TV with HDMI and also by optical cable to my AVR. No problem. The TV sound worked (for both analog and digital channels) and the sound through my AVR also worked. I guess HDMI carries analog as well as digital audio. Now I've got a D* satellite receiver, and it works the same way.

Interesting. Are you sure that you have a Dolby Digital stream being sent to your AVR? Does it indicate Dolby Digital, PCM, or ProLogic. Unless the display turns to Dolby Digital or DTS, you may be just getting 2 channel PCM.

In which case is not 5.1 or 7.1.

Now if you are actually getting DD or DTS to your AVR from the SA8300HD, than your tv must also have Dolby decoding on it.

Please advise,
thanks
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post #9 of 25
1/12/08 at 8:06pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3Gps View Post

Now if you are actually getting DD or DTS to your AVR from the SA8300HD, than your tv must also have Dolby decoding on it.

I'm quite sure I'm getting DD 5.1 (sometimes DD 2.0) to my receiver. I don't follow your reasoning here. For a cable channel with DD 5.1 sound, the 8300 sends DD 5.1 over the optical digital connection to my AVR, and it sends downconverted analog stereo over HDMI to my TV. My TV is not in the signal chain for the DD 5.1 that the 8300 is sending to my AVR, so there is no reason to think it has a DD decoder (and I'm sure it doesn't). (For this to work, the 8300 menu option for digital sound has to be set to DD.)
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post #10 of 25
1/12/08 at 8:23pm
3Gps - EDIT: Take a look at p7 on this link to the Scientific Atlanta user guide for 8300HD boxes:

http://www.scientificatlanta.com/pro...fs/4004007.pdf

It explains that if your TV doesn't support DD 5.1, then you have to use optical to your AVR and you cannot use the TV speakers. If you want to re-enable the TV speakers, you can do so by going into the audio settings menu on the STB and switching the HDMI ouitput to 2 channel PCM. Don't bother with the R/L connections at all. It's not ideal, but it's a way to get 5.1 through your AVR and 2 channel sound through your TV.
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post #11 of 25
1/12/08 at 9:23pm
Oh, ok, now I'm with you. The link you gave refers back to its own posting, but now I recall this restriction in the SA8300. Well, I must be remembering the earlier situation when I had the 8300 connected to my TV with component cables, rather than HDMI. Sorry about that. I don't actually have an 8300 any longer, and my satellite receiver doesn't have a restriction like that of the 8300.

Getting back to your problem, maybe your AVR has L/R stereo monitor outputs that you could feed into (possible) external audio inputs on your TV?

By the way, why do you want your TV to play sound, anyway? I leave my AVR on all the time and never use the TV speakers.
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post #12 of 25
1/12/08 at 9:48pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by GregLee View Post

The link you gave refers back to its own posting,

Oops. I fixed the link.
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post #13 of 25
1/13/08 at 1:50am
Thread Starter 
Thanks for the feedback. I did see this before but it really comes down to:
- I want the tv to play sound because I only power up the AVR for movies and DVD's. Also, there are many users of the tv and I want to keep it simple.
- I know I can reconfigure the STB each time, but that's painful.

If I could somehow get both 2 channel pcm and DD from the STB, that would be ideal.

So I just ordered some various DVI to hdmi adapters from monoprice to see if I can somehow get the tv to switch over to the analog inputs even when the hdmi cable is active for video.

The only other option is to find an in-line DD decoder to place between STB and tv.

I spoke to an installer today of home theater systems. He said that in our area served by Time Warner and SA8300 STB's, 75% of households running AVR's are not setup correctly. They don't even realize they are not running 5.1 They are all running 2 channel stereo.
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post #14 of 25
1/13/08 at 9:17am
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3Gps View Post

Thanks for the feedback. I did see this before but it really comes down to:
- I want the tv to play sound because I only power up the AVR for movies and DVD's. Also, there are many users of the tv and I want to keep it simple.
- I know I can reconfigure the STB each time, but that's painful.

I don't mean to be rude. But, if you knew all of this, why didn't you mention it in your posts? You are really asking whether anyone has figured out a work-around for a specific, known operating quirk of the SA8300HD STB. I wouldn't have gotten involved in the discussion since I don't own any of your equipment and can be of no assistance. In the future, please be mindful about wasting the time of other users on this forum.
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post #15 of 25
1/13/08 at 9:53am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BIslander View Post

I don't mean to be rude. But, if you knew all of this, why didn't you mention it in your posts? You are really asking whether anyone has figured out a work-around for a specific, known operating quirk of the SA8300HD STB. I wouldn't have gotten involved in the discussion since I don't own any of your equipment and can be of no assistance. In the future, please be mindful about wasting the time of other users on this forum.

Sorry but, the question was not what the SA8300HD can output, the question is how to get the tv to use the analog audio inputs instead of the hdmi audio inputs. This is stated over and over again.
Sorry to waste your time but this still as not been answered.
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post #16 of 25
1/13/08 at 10:32am
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3Gps View Post

Sorry but, the question was not what the SA8300HD can output, the question is how to get the tv to use the analog audio inputs instead of the hdmi audio inputs. This is stated over and over again.
Sorry to waste your time but this still as not been answered.

What does the manual say? What answer did you get from Sony tech support?
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post #17 of 25
1/13/08 at 11:35am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BIslander View Post

What does the manual say? What answer did you get from Sony tech support?

Called and they had no idea what I was talking about. The CSR asked me what hdmi meant. Then I emailed twice. Nothing. That's why I posted here.
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post #18 of 25
1/13/08 at 11:49am
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3Gps View Post

Called and they had no idea what I was talking about. The CSR asked me what hdmi meant. Then I emailed twice. Nothing. That's why I posted here.

The manual says?

First, you have to determine whether you even get a proper 2 channel output over the L/R jacks on the SA8300HD when it is set to DD. You can check that by running a two channel output to your AVR and seeing what the receiver reports.

If that works, then it's back to the TV. From my experience, an HDMI connector with an associated L/R audio pair is designed for use with DVI sources, which don't carry audio. You can try a DVI-HDMI cable from the STB to the TV, although it's questionable whether the Scientific Atlanta HDMI port will work with a DVI cable.

You will probably need to look for a box that converts HDMI to DVI. Then, run an HDMI cable into the box from the SA8300HD and a DVI-HDMI cable from the box to the set. That will strip off the audio. (I have no idea whether such a box exists.)

Or, maybe you can use a DVI switch. Run HDMI-DVI into the switch and DVI-HDMI back out of it to the TV. That should also get rid of the audio so that the TV looks to the stereo pair instead.
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post #19 of 25
1/13/08 at 1:33pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BIslander View Post

The manual says?

First, you have to determine whether you even get a proper 2 channel output over the L/R jacks on the SA8300HD when it is set to DD. You can check that by running a two channel output to your AVR and seeing what the receiver reports.

If that works, then it's back to the TV. From my experience, an HDMI connector with an associated L/R audio pair is designed for use with DVI sources, which don't carry audio. You can try a DVI-HDMI cable from the STB to the TV, although it's questionable whether the Scientific Atlanta HDMI port will work with a DVI cable.

You will probably need to look for a box that converts HDMI to DVI. Then, run an HDMI cable into the box from the SA8300HD and a DVI-HDMI cable from the box to the set. That will strip off the audio. (I have no idea whether such a box exists.)

Or, maybe you can use a DVI switch. Run HDMI-DVI into the switch and DVI-HDMI back out of it to the TV. That should also get rid of the audio so that the TV looks to the stereo pair instead.

Thanks for sticking with me BIslander, I will do exactly this and see what happens.
I'm hoping by going through DVI connectors, the audio gets stripped off and the tv will switch to analog for audio.

The Sony TV manual mentions only that if you are running from a dvi source, you will need separate audio cables. So the dvi experiment will be my last try. I'll report back on if this works.
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post #20 of 25
1/14/08 at 1:13pm
Thread Starter 
I finally spoke to someone at Sony in more detail. Sony inputs are "plug and play". If the TV detects hdmi and hdcp source, it automatically uses the hdmi input ONLY for both video and audio. (Which makes sense) But the analog inputs are disabled.
So the only way I'll be able to use the analog audio inputs AND the hdmi for video is to somehow trick the tv into thinking the source is DVI, so the analog audio inputs become active.
But then the problem is will hdcp encoded video still work?

hmmm.....
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post #21 of 25
1/14/08 at 5:24pm
You may have another choice here, I think. Why not try component video and analog audio when you want to use the TV speakers?
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post #22 of 25
1/14/08 at 5:58pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BIslander View Post

You may have another choice here, I think. Why not try component video and analog audio when you want to use the TV speakers?

I was trying to stick to hdmi for video quality reasons, but you actually have a good point that I missed. I'll hook up the component cables and see if I can see any differences.
My other option I'm also pursuing now is to see if I can find a Dolby Digital decoder box that has hdmi (video and DD) input, and outputs hdmi video with 2 channel PCM audio.
I never imagined this to be this difficult. I thought there would be a lot of people who also wanted to be able to run a cable or DirecTV box to both a TV and AVR. If Sony TV's had built in Dolby Digital decoders, that would be nice.
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post #23 of 25
1/14/08 at 6:55pm
I think you have a uniquely awful pairing of TV and STB.

I have a Motorola STB and send HDMI out to a Panasonic TV and optical to my AVR. The Panasonic downmixes the digital audio to two channels or allows me to select the analog inputs instead. And, the Motorola STB doesn't change the optical out based on the HDMI handshake. That's the way it ought to work.
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post #24 of 25
1/14/08 at 7:46pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BIslander View Post

I think you have a uniquely awful pairing of TV and STB.

I have a Motorola STB and send HDMI out to a Panasonic TV and optical to my AVR. The Panasonic downmixes the digital audio to two channels or allows me to select the analog inputs instead. And, the Motorola STB doesn't change the optical out based on the HDMI handshake. That's the way it ought to work.

My main problem is the Sony tv disables the analog inputs as soon as it does the hdcp handshake. so the STB then goes to all analog and pcm output on audio. I tried with optical, digital coax, and composite connects. They all stick to the same format. I wish/hope Scientific Atlanta sees this issue and changes something. firmware? Oh well, I guess I'll just have to keep manually switching the STB.
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post #25 of 25
1/16/08 at 10:01am
Not sure if this belongs in this thread, but setting up a new system with hdmi from Motorola STB to Pioneer Kuro TV and Optical audio from STB to Pioneer Receiver - Trying to listen to Receiver/Speakers simultaneous to TV/speakers they are slightly out of sync - not sure if there's a way to do this. (I'm still running only 2 speakers, still recovering from new tv/receiver before getting new multi-speakers).
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