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Oh God, how did LCD's takeover the market??? - Page 6

post #151 of 165
Pioneer Kuro plasma's have by far the deepest blacks of any other plasma at the moment, I had mine sitting next to my XBR960 and the black levels were nearly identical, even in a dark room.
post #152 of 165
LCDs are the worst plague in the history of the universe!
post #153 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by googleme7 View Post

You walk through a big box store and everyone has an LCD TV. WTF is Polaroid doing in the TV market? This is atrocious. The picture quality is terrible even on HD. I could stomach it for playing a video game, but thats about it. The black level is crap, flesh tones don't look accurate, and the colors look fluorescent. And the soft edges on everything just makes me want to puke.

I was looking at the Blu-Ray kiosk that Sony has out at all the Target stores. Man, if their goal was to get me to buy a Blu-Ray player, they failed miserably. The picture on the LCD they have up looks exactly the same as a 480 analog DVD upconverted on an LCD TV, except the colors are a little brighter.

Man, you know the TV business is in the shitter when Samsung has been the leader for 2 years running.

Your mentioning of Polaroid LCDs triggered a general question I have about the technology. Recently we rented a beach house that had four Polaroid HD TVs from WalMart. The pictures were pretty mediocre even in HD but they all had a smearing of the picture during fast movement. Is this just a function of a cheap LCD or do all LCDs exhibit this problem? I have a couple of DLPs and one direct view HD and none of them have this problem.
post #154 of 165
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sundowner8 View Post

Your mentioning of Polaroid LCDs triggered a general question I have about the technology. Recently we rented a beach house that had four Polaroid HD TVs from WalMart. The pictures were pretty mediocre even in HD but they all had a smearing of the picture during fast movement. Is this just a function of a cheap LCD or do all LCDs exhibit this problem? I have a couple of DLPs and one direct view HD and none of them have this problem.


I believe what you are talking about is the response time. They all have a delay, unlike CRT which basically lights up almost instantly. I am sure someone will be along shortly to explain this in more detail, but basically, as I understand it, the response time is how fast the pixels of an LCD align to display the image.

I thought they had gotten a lot better on this. I just looked at the brands, and most of the models even the cheapo's, average about 8ms. Even the Sony's are 8 ms. I think only the really small 19" models average lower. Though, Sony has a new "120hz" model coming out in April that claims to reduce motion blur, so if they needed to make that model, then obviously you will still see it in the 8 ms entry level models.

So, it's not really a result of a cheap brand. Polaroid in a side-by-side (and granted this is in a store where their feed is probably all split up), you can really tell a difference between a name brand like Sony and your Polaroids, Sanyo's, etc. Sony has been at it for so much longer, so they can produce a really good picture, but as you said, the motion blur is always going to be a problem, especially the bigger the screen is.

Now, the people that will come in here arguing this will be the owners of the upper end Samsung's, but the real argument here is the average TV. I mean who really cares once everything gets above $1,000, you have many options for TV. The thing is, 3-4 years ago, you could spend below $1,000 and still get a really nice TV. Vizio, and Sanyo, and all these cheapo LCD makers ruined the market by offering LCD to that market, which should have been owned by CRT.
post #155 of 165
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Artwood View Post

LCDs are the worst plague in the history of the universe!


They are like The Borg now. They just assimilated Pioneer. In regards to our discussion here though, it shows Pioneer was pretty stupid to get out of the CRT business. They could be ruling the Rear Projection market right now.

"Thinner TV's, Thinner Profits"
post #156 of 165
I think someone should start a new video display company called Anything But LCD!
post #157 of 165
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Artwood View Post

I think someone should start a new video display company called Anything But LCD!


I thought the same thing, only I was thinking more along the lines of "**** LCD!"
post #158 of 165
As a major gamer(360/PS2 and Wii) LCD's are my worst nightmare, when i can see blurring/ghosting even in the new 120 htz sets as well as the dark levels being noware close to my XBR960 CRT.

I would rip apart the manufactures for putting garbage on the market, however it's the fault of the zombie casual tv buyer, including the guys who have turned into wussies, buying flat panels mainly because they look sleek and are lightweight.

If your buying a tv, all that should matter is PQ and the size your looking for, and not the size and weight.

Hopefully the OLED's will stop the garbage LCD from dominating a market that is more about being thin then having great PQ.
post #159 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by rwise View Post

For all you CRT haters:

CRTs have the best picture quality in almost all areas. And even if plasma or LCD tvs are catching up, the price of CRTs is phenominal right now. They've never been cheaper.

Unfortunately, stupid customers are in awe of flat panels and how "thin" they are, yet they have no idea that they suck. And then they get caught up in the words "High Definition". 480i through a component input on a CRT looks the same, if not better than most affordable LCDs and plasmas running 1080p.

For the money and the picture, go with a CRT. The reason they're dying is becuase of YOU.

Wow...you are so wrong....I feel sorry for you really.

480i through component on a crt better than an LCD running at 1080p? Get a grip, man.
post #160 of 165
LOL...there's a lot of bitter people in this thread.
post #161 of 165
I'm curious if the passionate CRT fans could give me some advice on what to do with mine. I'm thinking of upgrading later this year, and currently I've got a 36" HD 4:3 Sony KV36HS500 (2002) with matching stand. Is there any market for gently used HD CRTs?
post #162 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by pel1300 View Post

Wow...you are so wrong....I feel sorry for you really.

480i through component on a crt better than an LCD running at 1080p? Get a grip, man.

But the problem is, he's right.

You know all these contrast and black levels people keep talking about? Those measurements wouldn't even exist if people weren't trying to build flat panels to get the same quality as a CRT.

Now don't get me wrong, I love my plasma. But the 27" Panasonic in my office gives me a much higher quality picture, and it cost about 1/4 what the plasma did.
post #163 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by big angry View Post

But the problem is, he's right.

You know all these contrast and black levels people keep talking about? Those measurements wouldn't even exist if people weren't trying to build flat panels to get the same quality as a CRT.

Now don't get me wrong, I love my plasma. But the 27" Panasonic in my office gives me a much higher quality picture, and it cost about 1/4 what the plasma did.

You're trying to claim that DVDs running on 480i on a CRT look better than blurays on a flat panel?

Thanks for the laugh.
post #164 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by pel1300 View Post

You're trying to claim that DVDs running on 480i on a CRT look better than blurays on a flat panel?

Thanks for the laugh.

There would be no need for Blu-Ray and other high-def sources if not for the deficiences of large flat-panel TVs.

Believe me, or choose not to. I don't care.
post #165 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by pel1300 View Post

You're trying to claim that DVDs running on 480i on a CRT look better than blurays on a flat panel?

Thanks for the laugh.

I don't think that was the claim. HD CRTs use upconversion algorithms, Sony having a very good one (DRC), that create very good interpolated 1080i images from DVD 480i sources. Certainly not full HD quality but VERY good nonetheless, especially for a relatively small display size.

Relative to flat panels, CRTs have drawbacks in maximum size, weight, geometry and color convergence but have strong points in color depth, black levels and image quality, to name a few. Like it or not CRTs are a VERY mature technology and are still used as the reference.

Peronally, I don't think I'll ever own an LCD panel. I'll stick with my HS510 until the newer technologies mature a little more. I just can't get past most LCDs tendency to "swim" along the edges of sharp detail. My CRT absolutely does not behave that way. Now, that may not be the most accurate way to describe it, but after watching CRT HD for over 4 years, I see it very clearly on most store LCD displays. When I look at a hard edge on a graphic, for instance, it appears to undulate. It looks like crap to me. IMHO

pel1300 - It appears you have bought a good lcd panel. I suggest you not get too worked up trying to validate that its "better" than a crt. Just enjoy the HD. LCDs can't compete with the strong points of the CRT but neither do they have the CRT's drawbacks.
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