or Connect
AVS › AVS Forum › Blu-ray & HD DVD › HD DVD Software › What if the remaining HD-DVD studios did this?
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

What if the remaining HD-DVD studios did this? - Page 5

post #121 of 464
Quote:
Originally Posted by jkcheng122 View Post

if this actually works, what's to stop Sony/Disney/Fox/Warner from doing the same?

They can't - Toshiba own the DVD license - it is illegal for them to include a DVD copy inside a Blu-ray labelled case! Furthermore as I already explained - if they included a separate DVD disc people would just sell (or give away) the DVD copy thereby reducing studio profits, and defeating the purpose of have both formats in the case. Also having two discs would defeat the consumer benefit of only need one single disc that plays in all players! There are so many reasons why Blu-ray can never ever do the same thing as a TwinDisc :-)

Quote:
Originally Posted by jkcheng122 View Post

also, this would never work, b/c the discs are already hackable (on both sides) so releasing it on disc at the same time as theatrical run will just put pirated copies in HD in a lot of homes who will neither go see it in the theaters nor buy it on disc.

1. Downloads are usually available well before movies hit the cinemas these days - so this strategy would have no effect whatsoever on piracy - if people have the way and the will they will go down that path regardless.

2. Universal have just implemented new (SD) DVD copy protection that even DVD Fab Decrypter and SlySoft AnyDVD cannot yet rip - so ideally RIGHT NOW (i.e next month) would be the very very best time to try this strategy out :-)
post #122 of 464
I still say, some one with Jodi Sally's e-mail address needs to send here a copy of this thread. She can say all of this was her idea
post #123 of 464
Quote:
Originally Posted by bourke View Post

1. Not Combos (flippers) - we're saying the new TwinDisc - i.e. single-sided three-layer discs (2 for HD and 1 for DVD).

2. Studios only need to risk it once - that will 'test' out the theory quite well enough :-)

I agree the problem is that there is no single title out as TL TwinDisc (only DL), so there is a risk that the TL TwinDisc will not play in some of the millions of DVD players out there. Anyway, I think the time for risk is now and not in a year.
post #124 of 464
Member suspended for posting Hitler HD DVD video link.

Post deleted.

Carry on.

Kyser
post #125 of 464
IMO, Toshiba should fire its promotion department and put the money it saves into HD DVD. It can come here when it needs to figure out what to do next! I just shake my head at the way its wasted its chances - few big releases when it counted, poor timing to cut pricing (these prices before Xmas would have been nice), few software sales and a sale when Transformers was released could have had a big impact (duh!), never using the combo properly, and not having a plan "B: ready for bad news (whether Warner or something else). I admire Toshiba's tenacity; but really - no smart moves (outside of Paramount). It should have just imagined its back was against the wall from the day the PS3 was released and acted accordingly. Hopefully I'm wrong and Toshiba is visiting the studios that count with major bribery in mind!

Cheers,

Grant
post #126 of 464
Yes, they need to do this as soon as they are able too. The Warner defection can be taken as an opportunity to free up production for Combo disk. Right now, I don't think TL51 is finished yet, so Combo is probably the safest and least risky bet in terms of high yield production numbers.

Some people complain about artwork on the disk and price. However, I firmly believe that 95% of the public will find more value and benefit in a Combo disk than a non Combo disk with artwork. The whole reason why combos did not work well is because of the extra price they tacked onto it.

In most cases, the early adopters of HD DVD do not care about the DVD side of the disk, they have more disposable income, frequent AV forum, and own one or more HD DVD players. This group is the most vocal on forums and will probably account for less than 1% of the optical media population. These forum dweller do not even remotely resemble the mass market.

I understand that the initial strategy of HD DVD PG was to target these early adopter due to the high cost of initial production lines, but now that HD DVD players are priced at $150, they should now be targeting the mass population.

For mass adoption to happen, we need to understand who these people are. So here is my list, but I'm only going to list the 4 that I think are important:

1) Casual viewers
2) Price sensitive consumers
3) Only see a marginal benefit to HDM
4) Lacks technical knowledge of the format.

1) Casual Veiwers
These are the people that don't watch movies on a regular basis. They rent more movies than they buy. They probably don't make time to watch movies and only watches movies when there isn't much else to do. Since they don't take movies seriously, it means that they will not pay much for the added benefit of higher resolution. Specials or extras will probably not add any value for them. Which leads to my next point about price sensitivity.

2) Price sensitive consumers
These consumers being very casual, will only buy movies when they are on sale or very popular. The extra elements provided on these disk will not help them make a purchase because they simply do not care about them. HD is a benefit that they are directly exposed to during the viewing of a movie, so it actually has tangible benefits than extras.

3) Only see a marginal benefit to HDM
However, most of these casual HD consumers sit in front of a computer all day and own small TV screen. Therefore, their poor eyesight (and laziness of putting on their glasses) will not see that much benefit from sharper resolution of HD, but the benefit of richer color and contrast is more easily noticable. They will not pay $30 for HDM, but are willing to pay slightly more than the cost of an avg DVD, just for the richer color and contrast.

4) Lacks technical knowledge of the format

They simply do not spend the time to research this until they are ready to buy. So colorful information package slips (players and disc), store displays, and retail employee training are their best tools. How does a consumer know if they are watching the DVD side or the HD DVD side. As suggested before, they need to include a short video before the start of any movie indicating which side they are watching. If they are on the DVD side, they can say "This is the DVD side of the disc, to watch the HD side, please flip the disc over and place it in an HD DVD player."

Twin Format
Since most of these consumers do not care about the extras, I think the 4.7/15GB layers of a twin disc might be sufficient for the general public. This should help keep cost low because they don't need to spend time to author the extras or bonuses. They can always use the Ethernet port for small extras and bonuses. If the studios really wanted to put in the extras anyway, they can pack in 2 twin disk. This can give the illusion of more value in the packaging.

Strong Marketing Push

To tie it all together, they need to start focusing on the benefits of combo disk. However, simply stating HD DVD and HD DVD with Combo does not give a clear understanding of the difference. They need a slightly different brand. Someone said DVD+ before, which is good, but can cause more problems than solutions for Toshiba (since public see more formats as bad). I think a better solution is HD DVD+ instead of HD DVD combo. Don't use the combo name, just HD DVD+ and tell the consumer it works with all DVD players. It also indicates that HD DVD has been upgraded to be even better without saying it is a new format. Marketing should also focus on the richer color and contrast of HD, since it is more noticeable than resolution at times.

Combos provides an incredible value, HD DVD PG needs to emphasize that HD DVD is the "only HD format" that lets you play your HD movies in all exisitng DVD players. How nice is that?
post #127 of 464
Quote:
Originally Posted by Striderprime00 View Post


Strong Marketing Push

To tie it all together, they need to start focusing on the benefits of combo disk. However, simply stating HD DVD and HD DVD with Combo does not give a clear understanding of the difference. They need a slightly different brand. Someone said DVD+ before, which is good, but can cause more problems than solutions for Toshiba (since public see more formats as bad). I think a better solution is HD DVD+ instead of HD DVD combo.

Don't use the combo name, just HD DVD+ and tell the consumer it works with all DVD players. It also indicates that HD DVD has been upgraded to be even better without saying it is a new format. Marketing should also focus on the richer color and contrast of HD, since it is more noticeable than resolution at times.

Combos provides an incredible value, HD DVD PG needs to emphasize that HD DVD is the "only HD format" that lets you play your HD movies in all exisitng DVD players. How nice is that?

Nice analysis.

As the DVD+ author let me say I like hd dvd+ as well.

Probably builds better on the branding of both DVD and HD DVD.

It's fun speculating.
On paper this all sounds good, especially from the consumer's point of view with the flexibility to use HDM in the tons of existing standard dvd players.

The reality of it all though has to make sense to the business interests. The rub is that it not only has to indicate that it would be profitable but also that it would somehow be more profitable than the alternative which is getting the whole industry to push a dual market of DVD mass market and Blu-ray for high end and quality concious market.

Most likely hd dvd while nice for consumers in several respects does not necessarily prove more profitable for the interested businesses as posted earlier:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rakesh.S View Post

we've been over this a million times

combo disc production cannot support dvd volumes

51 gb discs also have issues, or we would've seen them already.

the hd-dvd group and studios don't really care enough about saving the format -- if they did, no way that warner would have jumped ship.
post #128 of 464
As far as sales go I would think that the HD DVD combo only or twin only at a DVD price would be greater than the sum of its individual parts. Sales of combo only discs may look something like this: X (DVD) + Y (HD DVD) = X + Y + Z (combo only effect at DVD pricing). Instead of selling 5M DVDs and 150,000 HD DVDs the studio might sell 7M combos. That would more that pay for any extra costs of the combo I would think and even help to revitalize the DVD market. This is HD DVD's last shot at staying alive - do it or don't. If Toshiba doesn't find or have the money to make this happen then IMO its over - too bad so sad!

Cheers,

Grant
post #129 of 464
Quote:
Originally Posted by bdshort View Post

In a last ditch effort to save HD-DVD, lets say the 3 remaining HD studios decide to stop releasing new titles in the plain DVD format, and instead start releasing everything in a combo format, with Toshiba or whoever subsidizing the additional cost. Could HD-DVD grab a new foothold?


Here is an e-mail I sent to Ron Meyers the head marking guy for HD-DVD at Universal

Hello Mr. Meyer,

I am writing you with a suggestion on how HD-DVD can win the format war with very little effort. After going over the HD-DVD spec; I found that the 51 gig triple layer (TL) feature is the ultimate way HD-DVD can become the defacto standard for Hi-Definition movies.

HD-DVD can kill off Blu-Ray with in 3 month with just one press conference. If Universal and or Paramount release a statement that they will stop producing SD DVDs and go with the Hybrid TL Disc (both versions on the same side of the disc) for all future release; this will be game over for Blu-Ray. Legally Blu-Ray can not make a Hybrid disc so they would have zero come back to this move. With a Hybrid disc this is what can
happen. With one low box office movie the new disc would out sell both formats put together since the war began. The DVD layer when played could tell consumers that they could access the better quality version of the movie by purchasing a HD-DVD player from their local retailer. A transition from DVD to HD would be much easier if you put HD in the hands of as many people as possible with as little effort as possible. The Hybrid disc gives you a way to capture the market by doing the same thing you have been doing since the DVD format started over ten years ago. You would also save money on self space with retailers since you only have to put out one disc. This would be the death blow to yet another failed format from Sony who never seems to look at the big picture when they try to go against the grain.

I own a Hybrid movie from overseas and it works in both my DVD and HD-DVD players without a glitch. I don't have to flip the disc like a combo disc and which allows for cover art on the disc just like standard dvds. If Universal and Paramount were to to this, all the other studios would have to follow because they would not want to be left out of a huge installed base.

If you have any comments or would like to know more about this nuclear option you or your representative can reach me at xxx xxx-xxxx. By the way. If HD-DVD fails; I will never buy Blu-Ray and I have stopped buying DVDs because of the quality, so cable tv will have to be my HD hub for movies. HD-DVD is much more consumer friendly and a well thought out format not created in hast like Blu-Ray.

Thank you for your time.
post #130 of 464
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deja Vu View Post

As far as sales go I would think that the HD DVD combo only or twin only at a DVD price would be greater than the sum of its individual parts. Sales of combo only discs may look something like this: X (DVD) + Y (HD DVD) = X + Y + Z (combo only effect at DVD pricing). Instead of selling 5M DVDs and 150,000 HD DVDs the studio might sell 7M combos. That would more that pay for any extra costs of the combo I would think and even help to revitalize the DVD market. This is HD DVD's last shot at staying alive - do it or don't. If Toshiba doesn't find or have the money to make this happen then IMO its over - too bad so sad!

They need to take a big risk just for one movie and see if this results, if not then don't, but I think it will work.

I see that going Twin only you save money by:
- not releasing a Full Screen DVD version, so they save on the pan scan encode, package, sku and shelf space
- only releasing one sku, one package, no need to print 300,000 special covers for the HD version

They can even test it with a not so big hit movie, so the risk is lower (go for the 1million sale movie and not the 8million sale to test, if it work, go with all releases).
post #131 of 464
Quote:
Originally Posted by bato View Post

They need to take a big risk just for one movie and see if this results, if not then don't, but I think it will work.

I see that going Twin only you save money by:
- not releasing a Full Screen DVD version, so they save on the pan scan encode, package, sku and shelf space
- only releasing one sku, one package, no need to print 300,000 special covers for the HD version

They can even test it with a not so big hit movie, so the risk is lower (go for the 1million sale movie and not the 8million sale to test, if it work, go with all releases).

I wish they would do it with a high profile release (but low sale) title like Atonement or There Will Be Blood. I'm not sure if they have the capacity to do it with American Gangster, Bee Movie (should be a combo anyway if Dreamworks has any sense--animated titles need to play in the minivan) or Beowulf (ideal).
post #132 of 464
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarthJedi View Post

Here is an e-mail I sent to Ron Meyers the head marking guy for HD-DVD at Universal

Hello Mr. Meyer,

I am writing you with a suggestion on how HD-DVD can win the format war with very little effort. After going over the HD-DVD spec; I found that the 51 gig triple layer (TL) feature is the ultimate way HD-DVD can become the defacto standard for Hi-Definition movies.

HD-DVD can kill off Blu-Ray with in 3 month with just one press conference. If Universal and or Paramount release a statement that they will stop producing SD DVDs and go with the Hybrid TL Disc (both versions on the same side of the disc) for all future release; this will be game over for Blu-Ray. Legally Blu-Ray can not make a Hybrid disc so they would have zero come back to this move. With a Hybrid disc this is what can
happen. With one low box office movie the new disc would out sell both formats put together since the war began. The DVD layer when played could tell consumers that they could access the better quality version of the movie by purchasing a HD-DVD player from their local retailer. A transition from DVD to HD would be much easier if you put HD in the hands of as many people as possible with as little effort as possible. The Hybrid disc gives you a way to capture the market by doing the same thing you have been doing since the DVD format started over ten years ago. You would also save money on self space with retailers since you only have to put out one disc. This would be the death blow to yet another failed format from Sony who never seems to look at the big picture when they try to go against the grain.

I own a Hybrid movie from overseas and it works in both my DVD and HD-DVD players without a glitch. I don't have to flip the disc like a combo disc and which allows for cover art on the disc just like standard dvds. If Universal and Paramount were to to this, all the other studios would have to follow because they would not want to be left out of a huge installed base.

If you have any comments or would like to know more about this nuclear option you or your representative can reach me at xxx xxx-xxxx. By the way. If HD-DVD fails; I will never buy Blu-Ray and I have stopped buying DVDs because of the quality, so cable tv will have to be my HD hub for movies. HD-DVD is much more consumer friendly and a well thought out format not created in hast like Blu-Ray.

Thank you for your time.


Nice, a copy of the same letter should also go to Tosh, Para, and MICRO.
Microsoft could also be releasing Twin disc games with HD Bonus movies. That would promote the sale of their addon also. How about a special edition Shrek3 XBOX 360 game with the HD Movie included! Does anyone know if that would work.
post #133 of 464
Or they could ban Blu Ray studios from releasing on DVD
post #134 of 464
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elven6 View Post

Or they could ban Blu Ray studios from releasing on DVD

WOW.... aside from the bad PR could you imagine? "We felt we had the best intrest of the consumer in mind..... We felt the confusion created with Blu and DVD was causing the consumers to be confused. Warner, Sony and other studio titles were being released in both this Blu format and DVD creating confusion, So our solution is our twin format disc that can be played in ALL players including Blu ray players. Of course it will be poorly upconverted in current Blu Ray players."

Funny.
post #135 of 464
Quote:
Originally Posted by reefstar View Post

WOW.... aside from the bad PR could you imagine? "We felt we had the best intrest of the consumer in mind..... We felt the confusion created with Blu and DVD was causing the consumers to be confused. Warner, Sony and other studio titles were being released in both this Blu format and DVD creating confusion, So our solution is our twin format disc that can be played in ALL players including Blu ray players. Of course it will be poorly upconverted in current Blu Ray players."

Funny.

Man that would be hilarious, this is how I would spin it:

"Universal Studios, Paramount Pictures, and DreamWorks Pictures announces 'TotalHD DVD' a brand new High Definition DVD that plays in ALL players including standard DVD players and Blu-ray players..."

It would be so piss funny seeing so many Blu-ray kids claiming that they can see the quality difference over SD DVD when they play them in their PS3s! (naively unaware that they just boosted HD DVD sales LOL!)
post #136 of 464
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarthJedi View Post

Here is an e-mail I sent to Ron Meyers the head marking guy for HD-DVD at Universal

Hello Mr. Meyer,

I am writing you with a suggestion on how HD-DVD can win the format war with very little effort. After going over the HD-DVD spec; I found that the 51 gig triple layer (TL) feature is the ultimate way HD-DVD can become the defacto standard for Hi-Definition movies.

HD-DVD can kill off Blu-Ray with in 3 month with just one press conference. If Universal and or Paramount release a statement that they will stop producing SD DVDs and go with the Hybrid TL Disc (both versions on the same side of the disc) for all future release; this will be game over for Blu-Ray. Legally Blu-Ray can not make a Hybrid disc so they would have zero come back to this move. With a Hybrid disc this is what can
happen. With one low box office movie the new disc would out sell both formats put together since the war began. The DVD layer when played could tell consumers that they could access the better quality version of the movie by purchasing a HD-DVD player from their local retailer. A transition from DVD to HD would be much easier if you put HD in the hands of as many people as possible with as little effort as possible. The Hybrid disc gives you a way to capture the market by doing the same thing you have been doing since the DVD format started over ten years ago. You would also save money on self space with retailers since you only have to put out one disc. This would be the death blow to yet another failed format from Sony who never seems to look at the big picture when they try to go against the grain.

I own a Hybrid movie from overseas and it works in both my DVD and HD-DVD players without a glitch. I don't have to flip the disc like a combo disc and which allows for cover art on the disc just like standard dvds. If Universal and Paramount were to to this, all the other studios would have to follow because they would not want to be left out of a huge installed base.

If you have any comments or would like to know more about this nuclear option you or your representative can reach me at xxx xxx-xxxx. By the way. If HD-DVD fails; I will never buy Blu-Ray and I have stopped buying DVDs because of the quality, so cable tv will have to be my HD hub for movies. HD-DVD is much more consumer friendly and a well thought out format not created in hast like Blu-Ray.

Thank you for your time.


Dude let it go....I'm sure his secretary and her friends get a good chuckle from all the emails/letters, calls they may get from the diehards praying for a miracle.
post #137 of 464
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gordon Shumway View Post

Dude let it go....I'm sure his secretary and her friends get a good chuckle from all the emails/letters, calls they may get from the diehards praying for a miracle.

Dude, Why don't you go? Your NOT here to contribute to the conversation in any meaningful way so just leave and go back to your blue ray forums, That's why they are there. You have Your's and we have Ours, Why is that so hard to understand?
post #138 of 464
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gordon Shumway View Post

Dude let it go....I'm sure his secretary and her friends get a good chuckle from all the emails/letters, calls they may get from the diehards praying for a miracle.


At least he cares enough to buy and own HDM. Gordon, you still have not bought anything HDM. So how about you cease and desist with the constant non sense.
post #139 of 464
I think production concern is still a big problem for toshiba. Can they make millions of disc without impacting other disc? Hopefully they can, but if they can't, I like to suggest an alternative strategy for mass market adoption that can be cheaper for Toshiba and other studios.

720P
Call me crazy, but AppleTV got some of it right with the minimal standard of HD of 720p. If you stop reading now, i can understand why, but please bare with me for a moment. Most people only need to know that it is a HD standard, in fact, itunes advertise HD and doesn't make a big fuss about 720p, 1080i, or 1080p. TV broadcasting stations are either 1080i or 720p and I don't think most people can tell the difference as they flip the channels. Alot of it has to due to the fact that most of HDTV owner doesn't have a 1080p capable TV. Most HDTV has a native resolution of 720p or 768p or simiar. So the question is can 720p be marketable against 1080p? The answer is yes, but not for HD DVD disk. So what the hell am I talking about?

DVD9 with 720p encodes
This is the alternate strategy that would solve disc production problems for HD DVD, because no upgrade is required for disc production. So there is absolutely no additional manufacturing upgrade cost. Regular DVD players will ignore the second layer because it can't read it and a firmware upgrade on HD DVD player should allow it read the second HD layer from a regular DVD. Studio are supporting AppleTV 720P encodes, so they will have these encodes readily available. With the cost savings of this strategy, this DVD9 disk with HD content can be sold at the same price as a regular DVD. This will have the same effect as a hd dvd combo disk, but better, due to even lower cost and high production capacity. Best of all, these dvd9 with 720p encode works with all SD and HD DVD players.

HD DVD kept at 1080p only
If they do use DVD9 with 720p encodes, they can keep the HD DVD position as a highend HD disk with 1080p content. This opens up more choice for the market. We have 480p/720p disk for consumer who wants HD, but don't want to pay the additional cost of HD and want compatibity with SD DVD players. Then they have 1080p for consumers that are willing to initially pay a premium for high end content until price fall and HD DVD players are in millions of homes.

Brand the DVD 480p/720p disk

This is where Dahlsim's DVD+ branding will fit very well. De emphasize HD DVD a little bit for now, and start promoting DVD+ until million of HD DVD players are sold, once the market is ready, slowly switch the emphasis over to HD DVD.

HD DVD players should be labeled with a compatibility logo for DVD, DVD+ and HD DVD. Labels on DVD+ disc should emphasize that you can watch the HD version by simple putting the disc in an HD DVD Player.

If they could, I rather they use combo and TL51 hybrid disc so HD DVD brand doesn't have to take a backseat for a bit, but if production capacity is an issue, I think this strategy would be there next best alternative .
post #140 of 464
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarthJedi View Post

Here is an e-mail I sent to Ron Meyers the head marking guy for HD-DVD at Universal

Hello Mr. Meyer,

I am writing you with a suggestion on how HD-DVD can win the format war with very little effort. After going over the HD-DVD spec; I found that the 51 gig triple layer (TL) feature is the ultimate way HD-DVD can become the defacto standard for Hi-Definition movies.

HD-DVD can kill off Blu-Ray with in 3 month with just one press conference. If Universal and or Paramount release a statement that they will stop producing SD DVDs and go with the Hybrid TL Disc (both versions on the same side of the disc) for all future release; this will be game over for Blu-Ray. Legally Blu-Ray can not make a Hybrid disc so they would have zero come back to this move. With a Hybrid disc this is what can
happen. With one low box office movie the new disc would out sell both formats put together since the war began. The DVD layer when played could tell consumers that they could access the better quality version of the movie by purchasing a HD-DVD player from their local retailer. A transition from DVD to HD would be much easier if you put HD in the hands of as many people as possible with as little effort as possible. The Hybrid disc gives you a way to capture the market by doing the same thing you have been doing since the DVD format started over ten years ago. You would also save money on self space with retailers since you only have to put out one disc. This would be the death blow to yet another failed format from Sony who never seems to look at the big picture when they try to go against the grain.

I own a Hybrid movie from overseas and it works in both my DVD and HD-DVD players without a glitch. I don't have to flip the disc like a combo disc and which allows for cover art on the disc just like standard dvds. If Universal and Paramount were to to this, all the other studios would have to follow because they would not want to be left out of a huge installed base.

If you have any comments or would like to know more about this nuclear option you or your representative can reach me at xxx xxx-xxxx. By the way. If HD-DVD fails; I will never buy Blu-Ray and I have stopped buying DVDs because of the quality, so cable tv will have to be my HD hub for movies. HD-DVD is much more consumer friendly and a well thought out format not created in hast like Blu-Ray.

Thank you for your time.

Great posting. Anyway: I think TL51 are not feasible at the moment, and we're still missing confirmation that they run on all players.

Therefor, I'd guess the DL-Twin (17GB HD + 4.7GB SD) would better fit your scenario.
post #141 of 464
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarthJedi View Post

Here is an e-mail I sent to Ron Meyers the head marking guy for HD-DVD at Universal

Hello Mr. Meyer,

I am writing you with a suggestion on how HD-DVD can win the format war with very little effort. After going over the HD-DVD spec; I found that the 51 gig triple layer (TL) feature is the ultimate way HD-DVD can become the defacto standard for Hi-Definition movies.

HD-DVD can kill off Blu-Ray with in 3 month with just one press conference. If Universal and or Paramount release a statement that they will stop producing SD DVDs and go with the Hybrid TL Disc (both versions on the same side of the disc) for all future release; this will be game over for Blu-Ray. Legally Blu-Ray can not make a Hybrid disc so they would have zero come back to this move. With a Hybrid disc this is what can
happen. With one low box office movie the new disc would out sell both formats put together since the war began. The DVD layer when played could tell consumers that they could access the better quality version of the movie by purchasing a HD-DVD player from their local retailer. A transition from DVD to HD would be much easier if you put HD in the hands of as many people as possible with as little effort as possible. The Hybrid disc gives you a way to capture the market by doing the same thing you have been doing since the DVD format started over ten years ago. You would also save money on self space with retailers since you only have to put out one disc. This would be the death blow to yet another failed format from Sony who never seems to look at the big picture when they try to go against the grain.

I own a Hybrid movie from overseas and it works in both my DVD and HD-DVD players without a glitch. I don't have to flip the disc like a combo disc and which allows for cover art on the disc just like standard dvds. If Universal and Paramount were to to this, all the other studios would have to follow because they would not want to be left out of a huge installed base.

If you have any comments or would like to know more about this nuclear option you or your representative can reach me at xxx xxx-xxxx. By the way. If HD-DVD fails; I will never buy Blu-Ray and I have stopped buying DVDs because of the quality, so cable tv will have to be my HD hub for movies. HD-DVD is much more consumer friendly and a well thought out format not created in hast like Blu-Ray.

Thank you for your time.

Nice letter. It would have been good to reference this thread.
post #142 of 464
Actually all new low profile titles could use Twin Format disks (HD15/DVD5)

There is enough of space for most movies. The extras can always be put on a second disc.

Why should they only use it for smaller movies? Easy they would want to sell Big blockbusters seperate because thoose are the movies they can resell again to the same buyers.

Most low profile title will not be as easy to resell to people once they bought them on DVD, so the studios will not lose money on selling the HD DVD version along with them.

And if they can put 20 titles in everyones home they have started to create a great momentum.
post #143 of 464
I heard on the insider forum that the HD DVD PG did try to stop DVD release and only release combo for a few selected titles, but the studios didn't want to do it. It is probably because those titles would still be at $30 a disc and would not be the DVD case release. They should try again, but with a heavier emphasis on DVD packaging with the HD DVD version as an extra.
post #144 of 464
Quote:
Originally Posted by tteich View Post

...
Therefor, I'd guess the DL-Twin (17GB HD + 4.7GB SD) would better fit your scenario.

I was suggesting TwinDisc 34GB HD + 4.7GB SD, labelled as 'TotalHD DVD'.

And possibly throw in a 4.7GB SD disc to hold all of the SD extras.

That would sell sqillions!
post #145 of 464
I don't have a lot of confidence in the studios - Toshiba seems to be doing all the heavy lifting with everyone else supposedly supporting HD DVD standing around watching to see if it can pull this thing out of the fire - it would be nice if they chipped in a little with a $79 XBox Addon, some major and frequent movie releases and some aggressive announcements like "we're firmly committed to HD DVD". We're not getting any of this at the moment. It may happen, but when?

Cheers,

Grant
post #146 of 464
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elven6 View Post

Or they could ban Blu Ray studios from releasing on DVD

HERE'S THE PROBLEM with the OP's suggestion. It hit me this morning (right after I took my tin foil hat off). Elven6 partially stumbled on the solution.

The problem with encoding both the HD and SD version on the single disc is one thing. The date of conclusion. I can see where the studios want to avoid the extra cost of indefinite production of doing this. So here's the key to the whole mix. TOSHIBA needs to put an end date to DVD production. Similar to what is being done to analog TVs right now. And one more thing. TOSHIBA needs to require a start date for ALL SD DVD's to start including a HD layer also.

First TOSHIBA could announce that on DEC 31 2009 (date for example) they will discontinue SD DVD production, and no longer license companies to continue using the format. And announce that Jan 1 2010 all DVDS will be HD DVD's only. This will give the public a warning of the upcomiing change. With the price of HD players coming down the average consumer will be able to pick up a player by that date no problem. New players will be able to play ALL of your SD titles, but Old players will NOT be able to play the new format. This info can be put on the leader of all DVD releases. Plus Player manufactures can fully get behind the date, further increasing the player selection, and generating lower player prices.

Second. Tosh needs to put a prior date on when all current studios MUST include a HD layer on all newly pressed discs, (say 10/15/2008)or the license to produce SD Discs will be cancelled (or not renewed). Major studios could be given a earlier date, and Indies could be given a later date in order to gear up. This will also help promote player sales, because all new discs will include the HD layer. This will also resolve the "confusion" that the consumer seems to be having. Specific times and dates.

I think the consumer will see this as normal, and will accept that this is the next generation of technology. Also it would trump Blu at the SD level. Studios will be forced to make a decision. Either Soley support BLU and cancel all SD production (not gonna happen), or comply and bring the consumer to the next generation of video entertainment. Game, set, match. Take the Bull by the HORNS.

Thoughts??? Or did I miss something?
post #147 of 464
If Toshiba had this amount of control over DVD licencing (licensing - U.S.A. sp.) then it could have and should have refused to renew the licences of BD only studios. If Toshiba actually had this amount of control over DVD there would be no BD exclusive studios. Toshiba is part of a DVD patent pool - it would be interesting to know just how much power it has over DVD licencing. Warner had better hope Toshiba doesn't have a yea or nay say when it comes to the renewal of its DVD licence.

Cheers,

Grant
post #148 of 464
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deja Vu View Post

If Toshiba had this amount of control over DVD licencing (licensing - U.S.A. sp.) then it could have and should have refused to renew the licences of BD only studios. If Toshiba actually had this amount of control over DVD there would be no BD exclusive studios. Toshiba is part of a DVD patent pool - it would be interesting to know just how much power it has over DVD licencing. Warner had better hope Toshiba doesn't have a yea or nay say when it comes to the renewal of its DVD licence.

Cheers,

Grant

Well, then it seems Tosh would be better off spending their money, time, and efforts courting the intrests of the members of the DVD patent pool. Maybe more is going on behind the scenes than meets the eye.

Wouldn't it be funny if Tosh agreed let Warner get their money from SONY first!!! Oh that would be halarious... Where's my tin foil hat??
post #149 of 464
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dahlsim View Post

There is no way they would take ANY risk with the standard dvd release. It's too important a part of their revenue.

I suggest they use it on special edition DVD releases. Just add the DVD+ to the release.

-These are usually already double dips.
-People expect to pay more for special editions anyway. Tack on a couple more $.
-Make the special edition more "special" by adding high definition to it.
-Less cost (smaller runs) and less risk (doesn't affect the standard dvd release).

Good idea with special releases...people love special releases...they feel that they are getting more for their dollar!
post #150 of 464
Quote:
Originally Posted by Striderprime00 View Post

I think production concern is still a big problem for toshiba. Can they make millions of disc without impacting other disc? Hopefully they can, but if they can't, I like to suggest an alternative strategy for mass market adoption that can be cheaper for Toshiba and other studios.

720P
Call me crazy, but AppleTV got some of it right with the minimal standard of HD of 720p. If you stop reading now, i can understand why, but please bare with me for a moment.

You don't get many votes in favor around here, but I can bet that there are more 720p TVs (768?) than 1080p and 1080p is only going for big screens (42" or more). Many people that know say there is no need for 1080p for 42" or less display at normal viewing distance.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Striderprime00 View Post

DVD9 with 720p encodes
This is the alternate strategy that would solve disc production problems for HD DVD, because no upgrade is required for disc production. So there is absolutely no additional manufacturing upgrade cost. Regular DVD players will ignore the second layer because it can't read it and a firmware upgrade on HD DVD player should allow it read the second HD layer from a regular DVD.

I don't think you can fit a 480p movie AND a 720p movie in a DVD9 disc, but with a few tweaks the machine that creates a DVD9 can create a DL Twin disc (DVD5 and HD15). 720p having half the pixels than 1080p don't need the higher bitrate so it can easily fit in HD15 even with extras.

The problem with Toshiba is that they don't own a movie studio that can release some titles with this format and other studios see a risk and they don't want to take it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Striderprime00 View Post

HD DVD kept at 1080p only
they can keep the HD DVD position as a highend HD disk with 1080p content. This opens up more choice for the market. We have 480p/720p disk for consumer who wants HD, but don't want to pay the additional cost of HD and want compatibity with SD DVD players. Then they have 1080p for consumers that are willing to initially pay a premium for high end content until price fall and HD DVD players are in millions of homes.

Actually it gives the market a "transition" format (480p/720p) and a High End format that will be niche at first but maybe will end in every house.

In the future you can have 720p content and not release 480p anymore and keep the 1080p for high end users, just like having the Fullscreen release and Widescreen release but with a little price difference. Then the high end market can change to 4K but have a base for most consumers.

I think is easier to have a 1080p encode then reduce that to 720p than creating a pan & scan Fullscreen version of a movie.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Striderprime00 View Post

Brand the DVD 480p/720p disk
This is where Dahlsim's DVD+ branding will fit very well. De emphasize HD DVD a little bit for now, and start promoting DVD+ until million of HD DVD players are sold, once the market is ready, slowly switch the emphasis over to HD DVD.

I'm thinking something in the line of DVD+HD


The ideas here are to:
- create a transition product
- the product be HD and great looking on most TVs
- do not sacrifice production
- do not increase costs much
- better 720p than downloads (higher bitrates, interactive features and extras)

Even if Toshiba did this Blu-ray can win the high end market, so in the end we can have HD basic for HD DVD and HD advance for Blu-ray, both market can survive and they can end the SD market in a few years, even dual format players will be more interesting.

I think is easier to make the consumer jump from 480p to a 720p-1080p market than going directly from 480p to 1080p.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: HD DVD Software
AVS › AVS Forum › Blu-ray & HD DVD › HD DVD Software › What if the remaining HD-DVD studios did this?