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New AppleTV what do you Think

post #1 of 184
Thread Starter 
New AppleTV what do you Think http://www.apple.com/appletv/
post #2 of 184
Looks interesting if you live in the US and can use the TV and movie downloads. Outside the US it still a paperweight. I think it still too proprietry as far as codecs and resolution goes. I get the impression that TV shows are SD only but with movies you have the option of SD or HD. It may give the Vudu a run for it's money but with Vudu you can purchase the movie as well as rent..
post #3 of 184
The thing is really a rip off in my eyes. A SD movie is $3.99 and $4.99 for HD! On top of that TV Shows are $1.99 a piece! At the very least it needs an unlimited viewing fee.

I am sure people will buy it because it is Apple and they love everything made by crapple. But you can do much better then this and save yourself a lot of money. I am waiting to see if Netflicks will get into the action and create a set top box.
post #4 of 184
This is actually a little worse than Xbox Live Marketplace, IMO, where we've been renting HD movies for about a year now. Nothing to see here, really. At least you can play games on the Xbox 360.
post #5 of 184
Same crapola hardware. 720p max resolution. Low apple bitrates. DRM all-over-the-place hindering usage. Not very inexpensive rental prices, me thinks.

Not for me.

Yes, we are moving to this direction, but Stevie-boy has to do better in order to get this thing off the ground.

Apple TV Take 2 - make that "Flop no. 2".

let's wait for the real Apple TV HD.
post #6 of 184
I bet as old as the unit is, it wont be able to do true 1080p ever (so it's stuck at 720p). I too will wait till the next gen version.
post #7 of 184
I like it. I have the 40gb and it does quite well and it is silent. I have been waiting for the HD rentals and just cancelled Netflix. Convenience and 720p is not bad. Try the Hubblecast HD podcast.
post #8 of 184
Quote:
Originally Posted by hoos30 View Post

This is actually a little worse than Xbox Live Marketplace, IMO, where we've been renting HD movies for about a year now. Nothing to see here, really. At least you can play games on the Xbox 360.

How is it worse? The movies are at the same resolution and the viewing time is the same as Xbox Live.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Halcy View Post

Same crapola hardware. 720p max resolution. Low apple bitrates. DRM all-over-the-place hindering usage. Not very inexpensive rental prices, me thinks.

Not for me.

Yes, we are moving to this direction, but Stevie-boy has to do better in order to get this thing off the ground.

Apple TV Take 2 - make that "Flop no. 2".

let's wait for the real Apple TV HD.

Again, all of the movie rental rules are the same as Xbox Live. Same resolution, 720p and same DRM and movie rental time. You just don't like it because it's from Apple.
post #9 of 184
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carlos_E View Post

How is it worse? The movies are at the same resolution and the viewing time is the same as Xbox Live.

Again, all of the movie rental rules are the same as Xbox Live. Same resolution, 720p and same DRM and movie rental time. You just don't like it because it's from Apple.

Silly argument

I write this on a brand spanking Macbook Pro while ordering a new Mac Pro for my wife! Been using Macs since 1986, btw.

I like decent hardware & services, but AppleTV for me is not such. Not yet.

And I dislike all the other services/hw that limit me similarly, be that from Sony, Amazon, Microsoft or some other....

True HD AppleTV is not, not in resolution, not in audio tracks, not in bitrates. And I think it is also overpriced for what it offers.

As such, I think it deserves to fail in its current incarnation.

PS To me it sounds like _you_ like it, _because_ it is from _Apple_ Why even drag MS and xbox live into this discussion. Yes, it's equally crapola, but that means Apple's offering is crapola as well (at least in my book)
post #10 of 184
Quote:
Originally Posted by Halcy View Post

[snip]True HD AppleTV is not, not in resolution[snip]

In what way is 720p not an HD resolution? My only problem with ATV is the lack of codec support (especially high bitrate main or advanced profile h.264, .ifo, MPEG2, and DivX).

There is nothing wrong with the $229 price tag for people who already have a ton of iTunes Fairplay content they want in their living room. For people who don't have much iTunes content, a lower price wouldn't make them run out and buy this thing that can't do anything for them.
post #11 of 184
Quote:
Originally Posted by Halcy View Post

Silly argument

I write this on a brand spanking Macbook Pro while ordering a new Mac Pro for my wife! Been using Macs since 1986, btw.

I like decent hardware & services, but AppleTV for me is not such. Not yet.

And I dislike all the other services/hw that limit me similarly, be that from Sony, Amazon, Microsoft or some other....

True HD AppleTV is not, not in resolution, not in audio tracks, not in bitrates. And I think it is also overpriced for what it offers.

As such, I think it deserves to fail in its current incarnation.

PS To me it sounds like _you_ like it, _because_ it is from _Apple_ Why even drag MS and xbox live into this discussion. Yes, it's equally crapola, but that means Apple's offering is crapola as well (at least in my book)

I didn't drag MS into this. hoos30 did. See his post below. I was questioning how it's worse considering it has the same rules as Xbox Live.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hoos30 View Post

This is actually a little worse than Xbox Live Marketplace, IMO, where we've been renting HD movies for about a year now. Nothing to see here, really. At least you can play games on the Xbox 360.
post #12 of 184
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neil 420 View Post

In what way is 720p not an HD resolution?

It's not full HD 1080p, that's why. Sure it's part of the HD resolution gamut, but full HD resolution it is not, as we both know.

Quote:


My only problem with ATV is the lack of codec support (especially high bitrate main or advanced profile h.264, .ifo, MPEG2, and DivX).

That and the horrible maximum bitrate that is 1/10th of the the maximum bitrate seen on some blu-ray discs. 1/10th! That is a lousy amount of information, considering it is using similar codec/profile.

As such, it will look not very good side-by-side to a full HD blu-ray disc content at 100" on one's screen

Quote:


There is nothing wrong with the $229 price tag for people who already have a

I think the device is priced ok, it just doesn't do what it I think it should. And the price of the movies off the service - that's too high, imho.
post #13 of 184
I'm thinking they will be working on it, but usually apple hits the ground running with a product. Not dip their toes in the water....twice.

I've been waiting for something...this was almost it.

The problem i have is my 1080P LCD wants to have 1080P movies played on it. Waiting for the "who wins, HD DVD or Bluray" could take forever.

the other problem i have that i haven't seen mentioned on any blog or posts is the actual download times. Download a HD movie and watch it when? How far ahead to you have to plan? I have max 256K DSL at my place...not the best, but the best I can get (charter is 5 miles away from me, but i can't get it). It takes me 3 minutes to download an itune...how about a HD movie? dear lord...

So for now...I am stuck watching upconverted DVD's movies on my oppo...
post #14 of 184
I think I will wait it out to see what Netflix and LG have to offer later this year. Supposedly the subscription fees will stay the same, it will be interesting how they control the amount of downloads with their existing pricing structures.

The price of the box will be a big factor; I have read rumors all the way from the service being included in the expensive $700 dual DHDVD & BLU-RAY player to wireless standalone boxes.
post #15 of 184
Quote:
Originally Posted by Halcy View Post

It's not full HD 1080p, that's why. Sure it's part of the HD resolution gamut, but full HD resolution it is not, as we both know.

You are as bad as a Best Buy salesman. 1080i and 720p are just as much HD as 1080p. Ask 10 people and let me know how many say there is a substantial difference in PQ with 1080p vs 1080i/720p. The term "FullHD" is lame and so are the people that claim it is soooooooo much better than "crappy 720p."
post #16 of 184
cant we keep on subject just once? we know the stats of AppleTV already.
post #17 of 184
I personally am looking forward to using the rental service. I will cancel my NetFlix account and pay a few bucks extra just for the convenience.

Any idea on when Apple with have the update available for present Apple TV owners?
post #18 of 184
Quote:
Originally Posted by dgolombowski View Post

I personally am looking forward to using the rental service. I will cancel my NetFlix account and pay a few bucks extra just for the convenience.

Any idea on when Apple with have the update available for present Apple TV owners?

January 29th.
post #19 of 184
This looks much more interesting to me. Will play divx, xvid, h.264, .vobs, avi, etc etc (must buy codec plugins, ~$50 total). If it is anything like my Archos 605 WiFi, it works awesome.

http://www.archos.com/products/gen_5...global&lang=en
post #20 of 184
[quote=mike_pro;12847836]This looks much more interesting to me. Will play divx, xvid, h.264, .vobs, avi, etc etc (must buy codec plugins, ~$50 total). If it is anything like my Archos 605 WiFi, it works awesome.

http://www.archos.com/products/gen_5...global&lang=en[/QUO

The key will be the delivery system. That's where Apple has a leg up. Their ITune store experience will be the difference maker. And don't forget that unused USB on the back of the Apple TV. It is a future proof product that so far has kept just a step ahead of the competition. I expect Apple to make great strides in the next 12-18 months and pull away from smaller competitors.
post #21 of 184
Quote:
Originally Posted by mike_pro View Post

This looks much more interesting to me. Will play divx, xvid, h.264, .vobs, avi, etc etc (must buy codec plugins, ~$50 total). If it is anything like my Archos 605 WiFi, it works awesome.

http://www.archos.com/products/gen_5...global&lang=en

So, that is $250 for the box plus $50 for the codecs? That thing can't play any flavor of HD at all. It can't even do the HR (960x540) like a $100 Xbox running XBMC. The Xbox can play any codec that you can play on a PC except some copy protected content. These devices do not compete against AppleTV.
post #22 of 184
Quote:
Originally Posted by abeas View Post

You are as bad as a Best Buy salesman. 1080i and 720p are just as much HD as 1080p. Ask 10 people and let me know how many say there is a substantial difference in PQ with 1080p vs 1080i/720p. The term "FullHD" is lame and so are the people that claim it is soooooooo much better than "crappy 720p."

Please refrain from calling names

Also, you will gain much information about the differences in image quality, once you've compared the best of available AppleTV 720p at 5Mbit/s against best of Blu-Ray 1080p at 50Mbit/s (peak).

When you've done that on a good 100" + size screen and understand the basics of subjective image quality assessment for psycho-visual compression codecs, then we can continue a more meaningful discussion.
post #23 of 184
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chadlyt View Post

I'm thinking they will be working on it, but usually apple hits the ground running with a product. Not dip their toes in the water....twice.

I've been waiting for something...this was almost it.

The problem i have is my 1080P LCD wants to have 1080P movies played on it. Waiting for the "who wins, HD DVD or Bluray" could take forever.

the other problem i have that i haven't seen mentioned on any blog or posts is the actual download times. Download a HD movie and watch it when? How far ahead to you have to plan? I have max 256K DSL at my place...not the best, but the best I can get (charter is 5 miles away from me, but i can't get it). It takes me 3 minutes to download an itune...how about a HD movie? dear lord...

So for now...I am stuck watching upconverted DVD's movies on my oppo...


With 256K DSL service you will be waiting a long time for HD - like planning a day in advance. The Vudu is supporting instant view HD if you have 4MB broadband service, and does support the highly coveted 1080p at 24fps. The viewing T's & C's seem about the same for all of the VOD competitiors. I'm just hoping having AppleTV in the mix will shake the studios loose on things like longer rental windows (say 36 or 72 hours).
post #24 of 184
Quote:
Originally Posted by Artslinger View Post

I think I will wait it out to see what Netflix and LG have to offer later this year. Supposedly the subscription fees will stay the same, it will be interesting how they control the amount of downloads with their existing pricing structures.

The price of the box will be a big factor; I have read rumors all the way from the service being included in the expensive $700 dual DHDVD & BLU-RAY player to wireless standalone boxes.


Last year, the lack of HD content and rental features relegated Apple TV to use as a simple media extender for iPhoto graphics and iTunes music, TV, and movies. Despite the weaknesses of its TV box, Apple managed to swallow 91% of the video downloads business, which included 99% of the paid TV downloads and 42% of all movie downloads.

That left Apple the largest movie download vendor in 2007, with twice the share of second place Movielink (21%) which has been in business since 2002, and well ahead of Cinemalink (15%) and Vongo (15%). All other movie download sources fought over the remaining 7%, according to data published in the last quarter by NPD reflecting sales from early 2007, as presentedin Apple TV Digital Disruption at Work: iTunes Takes 91% of Video Download Market.
post #25 of 184
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neil 420 View Post

So, that is $250 for the box plus $50 for the codecs? That thing can't play any flavor of HD at all. It can't even do the HR (960x540) like a $100 Xbox running XBMC. The Xbox can play any codec that you can play on a PC except some copy protected content. These devices do not compete against AppleTV.

Well, I disagree. They certainly competed with me, and AppleTV lost. I don't have the ArchosTV, so can't really speak for it's features/capabilities specifcially. But, the 605WiFi with DVR dock (similar specs to Archos TV) is so cool, I wouldn't trade it for AppleTV if someone paid me. I can play a far far wider range of movie files than I could with AppleTV, much better codec support. I can stream Divx and Xvid movies from my PC, DVD's, etc and they look great on my 61" DLP. Plus, I can pop the 605 out of it's dock, and take all of that stuff with me wherever I go, (up to 160GB capacity), plus all my MP3's, photos, even has a WiFi browser built in. Ipod touch, no thank you. Plus the USB port on the dock will let me connect an external drive and expand it's storage as much as I want.

So, maybe for *your* needs, it's not what you are looking for. But, it is still a really cool device, that a lot of people might find is just what they are looking for.

Of course, with Apple's marketing budget and their iTunes content lock, they will certainly own Archos. It's too bad, because I think it has many great and superior features. Hopefully more competition will push the market to someday develop the ultimate device.
post #26 of 184
I'd get an APple TV if it supported DIVX/XVID.

I'll stickmy my DMS-320 which although is clunky and not the best out today, works fine to stream divx to my TV.
post #27 of 184
Here are my major beefs with ATV
  • It runs too hot - I'm concerned about it's lifespan
  • Getting any content onto it other than iTunes is nearly impossible
  • Not enough hard drive space and not upgradeable
  • No internet radio
  • Doesn't zoom or pan photos
  • Photo resolution is inferior
  • Hard to mix photos and music -- lots of planning involved
  • Can't browse for the next thing while anything is playing even on youtube

I tried getting some MKVs and DVD main movie rips to play on it, and gave up after a couple of days.

So I'm waiting for the new version, but renting movies which I have to finish watching within 24 hours is not my thing... Meanwhile it's a great coffee cup warmer
post #28 of 184
Guys, the movies are meant to be streamed over the average broadband connection. Its obviously not going to be a 40Mb/s 1080p stream. The average person can't tell the difference between 720p, 1080i, or 1080p (I know this forum is the exact opposite of "average"...) Thats even being generous, my mom can't tell HD from SD. Even alot of Best Buy/ Future Shop TV salepersons can't tell if the stream on the TV they're trying to sell you is HD or SD (from my experience they score about 60%). If you want to play illegal mkv's or rip your HD movies from bluray/HDDVD then by all means buy one of the dozens of sigma designs boxes (all with hopelessly crappy firmware). I think its a very competitive offering all things considered:

-all major studios on board
-HD offerings
-computerless transactions
-well thought out intuitive UI
-instant gratification (playback within seconds unlike Netflix 3 days mail...)
-reasonable prices
post #29 of 184
You can get all the major studios now from Cinemanow or Movielink. The ATV HD is BS. It's HD in name only.

The UI looks snazzy thanks to nVidia, but it sucks to use it -- you keep having to push menu to navigate, and the remote is so tiny my fingers hurt trying to make it work.

I can get much better instant gratification from my Cable VOD, and since the ATV doesn't do much else, I don't see spending $300 to get a box that lets me rent movies online.

I don't understand Apple's decision to focus on this when online rental revenues are dismal, and Moviebeam and Akimbo (and soon Vudu) have all failed.

The competitive model is to get a Netflix or Blockbuster account, rip the DVDs when they arrive and watch any time or a Comcast DVR ($5/month)

So a 24/30 model is not competitive unless you can convince Mom to plunk down $300 so she can rent shows she's already getting free on Cable.
post #30 of 184
Quote:
Originally Posted by t3knokat View Post

You can get all the major studios now from Cinemanow or Movielink. The ATV HD is BS. It's HD in name only.

The UI looks snazzy thanks to nVidia, but it sucks to use it -- you keep having to push menu to navigate, and the remote is so tiny my fingers hurt trying to make it work.

I can get much better instant gratification from my Cable VOD, and since the ATV doesn't do much else, I don't see spending $300 to get a box that lets me rent movies online.

I don't understand Apple's decision to focus on this when online rental revenues are dismal, and Moviebeam and Akimbo (and soon Vudu) have all failed.

The competitive model is to get a Netflix or Blockbuster account, rip the DVDs when they arrive and watch any time or a Comcast DVR ($5/month)

So a 24/30 model is not competitive unless you can convince Mom to plunk down $300 so she can rent shows she's already getting free on Cable.

You had problems with the remote? Do you have very large fingers? I use the same design remote with my MacBook Pro and I have no problem operating both. You also complained on the user interface. Along with the HD rental there is a totally different user interface. I don't see how everyone can complain about it when it's not out yet and no ones tried it. I'll hold off judgement until January 29th when it comes out.
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