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Panny PZ700U/750U Calibration Settings & Black Level Poll (Light or Dark?) - Page 7

post #181 of 280
Quote:
Originally Posted by h3ro View Post

Is the amount/incidence of image retention also reduced after the break-in period is over?

The whole break-in period is a matter of opinion. Some say break-in isn't necessary, others say you should follow it until the phosphors have settled in. I didn't take a chance and followed it for the first 100 hrs. ("o" setting on picture, not using "vivid"; avoiding 4x3 viewing, static images and logos; etc)

Here's what Panasonic says,
"Burn-in," or image retention, is an uneven aging of the phosphors in a display device, can occur on any display that uses phosphors to generate an image, including tube TVs, projection TVs that use CRTs, and plasma TVs. Such uneven aging happens when bright, static images are left onscreen for an extended period of time, which can leave a visible "shadow" effect.

Improvements in panel service life to over 60,000 hours have minimized the risk of image retention. In addition, screen savers, pixel shifting, and brightness level adjustments can dramatically reduce any chance of image retention. Use common sense when it comes to your plasma TV; don't pause video games or watch TV stations with station logos onscreen for long periods of time, and use one of the many display calibration DVDs available today for properly setting brightness and contrast.

The rule of thumb: if you don't worry about your traditional tube TV, you don't have to worry about a Panasonic plasma TV."
post #182 of 280
Thanks a lot dsskid, you've put up some great info in all the 700U threads and its appreciated by all of us new plasma owners.
post #183 of 280
Thank you very much. This information is appreciated. I saw the green and didn't know how much adjustment latitude was available.

Cheers,

Gary

Quote:
Originally Posted by WRXpilot View Post

itigap: I don't have the 700, but I'm also considering one because of Costco (also in the DC area, coincidentally - they seem to be going fast here), and I think I can answer your questions.

Yes, in the service menu. Standard warnings apply; I don't know how hard it is to brick a Panny in the SM, but it's probably possible.


No. Outside of the user menu Color and Tint, there are no CMS controls available. The set is known to have oversaturated greens too, so if you're a stickler for color accuracy you might be unhappy about that.

No gamma adjustment on the set either AFAIK, user or service level.

Compared to some sets (specifically the competing LCD TVs), the Pannasonics lack many adjustments. OTOH, its picture still gets rated well consistently.
post #184 of 280
Quote:
Originally Posted by itigap View Post

Similarly, does the service menu offer individual color adjustments for the primary and secondary colors. I believe this is often refered to as CMS (Color Management System) and is similar to what the Pioneer Elite and NEC offer (but in these casees in their user level menus).

There is actually a CMS in the user menu that when turned ON enhances green and blue color reproduction. Default is ON, although it looks much better with it OFF which reduces the oversaturated greens.

Quote:
Originally Posted by itigap View Post

I would also like to know if there is any adjustment of gamma.

As stated previously not in the 700 series; however, gamma adjustment is available in the PRO settings in the 750 series.
post #185 of 280
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

There is actually a CMS in the user menu that when turned ON enhances green and blue color reproduction. Default is ON, although it looks much better with it OFF which reduces the oversaturated greens.



As stated previously not in the 700 series; however, gamma adjustment is available in the PRO settings in the 750 series.

Thanks,

I knew there was a setting that gave a fixed boost to some colors but that is hardly a CMS. CMS gives fine control over each primary and secondary to dial in the color drive and therefore acccuracy in each color dimension.

Its been a while since I loked at the 750's manual but yes controls seem to be the big advantage of the 750 over the 700 series.

As I have written elsewhere, IMO picture controls are significant in actually attaining a high level of PQ once you choose a display and get it home. That is why I personally have placed controls high on my list of criteria for a display.

Cheers,

Gary
post #186 of 280
Thanks dsskid. The reason I asked is because I have been playing with settings on my new TH-42PZ700U TV. The last thing I did was turned off CATS but then turned it on right away. Since a couple of days, I have been feeling that picture appear a little blurry or noisy. At close-up, I see a little bit of shadow, if that is the right term, similar to what you would see if you had an antenna which wasnt properly aligned or set. That is more noticeable if there is text on the screen. This is not so noticeable at the usual 10-12 feet distance. By the way, I am referring to HD channels, not SD programming.

So I was concerned if I messed up settings on my TV. However, I have satellite box from dish network and so this may be due to the signal and not TV or it settings. I don't have HD DVD or other HD sources to confirm this, however.
post #187 of 280
Quote:
Originally Posted by seattlehawk View Post

The last thing I did was turned off CATS but then turned it on right away.

The default for CATS is OFF and the majority of posters who have supplied their calibration settings believe the PQ is better with it OFF. Also, you can always return your user modified settings to their original defaults if you want to start over again. Not all HD programming is created equal so if you're seeing this on all channels (even Discovery HD, or ESPN HD) then there's something not right.
HD programming in general should be nothing less than superb on your set. Are you letting the Dish STB convert 720p to 1080i or the Panny? Try swapping and see if it improves.
post #188 of 280
For output from a PC to PZ700U using a DVI -> HDMI adapter and cable, what is the appropriate black levels setting, 0-255 (PC level) or 16-235 (TV level)? And how do I set the black level with my 8800GTX?
post #189 of 280
Quote:
Originally Posted by Faceless Rebel View Post

For output from a PC to PZ700U using a DVI -> HDMI adapter and cable, what is the appropriate black levels setting, 0-255 (PC level) or 16-235 (TV level)? And how do I set the black level with my 8800GTX?

I have my PC hooked up to my 58pz700u using a DVI>HDMI cable and have an 8800GTS card. I think the drivers and control panel are the same for both our cards and I don't remember setting the black level. If you find out where the setting is let me know.
post #190 of 280
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

The default for CATS is OFF and the majority of posters who have supplied their calibration settings believe the PQ is better with it OFF. Also, you can always return your user modified settings to their original defaults if you want to start over again. Not all HD programming is created equal so if you're seeing this on all channels (even Discovery HD, or ESPN HD) then there's something not right.
HD programming in general should be nothing less than superb on your set. Are you letting the Dish STB convert 720p to 1080i or the Panny? Try swapping and see if it improves.

Thanks! The CATS is off now but I was just wondering if turning it on/off, and messing with other settings, on a brand new TV caused some defect. I don't think it is the TV though. I don't think settings would cause a shadow effect. I wish I had Blu-Ray or HD DVD so I could confirm that. I will closely check other channels and also let some people with HD TV come and take a look at the picture to compare it what they see on their TV. It is likely every thing is alright here and it is just the signal from the source.

How do I let Dish STB convert 720p to 1080i?
post #191 of 280
Quote:
Originally Posted by seattlehawk View Post

At close-up, I see a little bit of shadow, if that is the right term, similar to what you would see if you had an antenna which wasnt properly aligned or set. That is more noticeable if there is text on the screen.

It sounds like it's probably a 720p source that's been upscaled to 1080. Check and see if you notice that kind of thing on CBS, NBC or one of the Discovery channels.
post #192 of 280
Quote:
Originally Posted by seattlehawk View Post

Thanks! The CATS is off now but I was just wondering if turning it on/off, and messing with other settings, on a brand new TV caused some defect.

Not unless turning the TV on and off causes some defect. It's just a switch (on/off). Settings are just that ... settings either (+) or (-). If you're concerned, return all settings to default by setting NORMAL to SET.

Quote:
Originally Posted by seattlehawk View Post

It is likely every thing is alright here and it is just the signal from the source.
How do I let Dish STB convert 720p to 1080i?

If you can see different programming (ie. 480i, 720p, 1080i) when you press the RECALL button on the Panny remote, then you've got the Dish STB in "NATIVE" mode ON which is letting the Panny do all the upscaling to 1080p.
You can let your DISH STB convert all programming to 1080i simply by setting NATIVE to OFF and checking only the 1080i block on the Dish STB. The Panny then upscales the 1080i to 1080p and all you'll see on every channel when you press the RECALL button is 1080i.

As I said, not all HD programming is created equal. Your best viewing HD Channel is going to be DiscoveryHD. If you're still seeing this shadow on that channel .... hmmm.
post #193 of 280
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

If you can see different programming (ie. 480i, 720p, 1080i) when you press the RECALL button on the Panny remote, then you've got the Dish STB in "NATIVE" mode ON which is letting the Panny do all the upscaling to 1080p.
You can let your DISH STB convert all programming to 1080i simply by setting NATIVE to OFF and checking only the 1080i block on the Dish STB. The Panny then upscales the 1080i to 1080p and all you'll see on every channel when you press the RECALL button is 1080i.
.

If I press recall button, I only see 480P (for both HD and SD channels) for all channels (Discovery, NBC, HGTV). What does this mean? Does this mean I am not getting HD programming?
post #194 of 280
How are all you folks using settings so high such as PICTURE in the 20-25 range and BRIGHTNESS in the 15-20 range????

If I increase the picture and brightness anything over 8, it starts to deteriorate visually and become grainy. I like a smoother overall creaminess to my images.

Arent you folks seeing the image noise with the PICTURE slider that high??
post #195 of 280
Quote:
Originally Posted by seattlehawk View Post

If I press recall button, I only see 480P (for both HD and SD channels) for all channels (Discovery, NBC, HGTV). What does this mean? Does this mean I am not getting HD programming?

First I guess I should ask if you have a HD dish or HD DVR and are you paying for HD programming? If not, then you're not going to get HD programming just because you have an HDTV.

If you do ....
What it means is you only have 480p checked on the HD Dish STB which probably explains your problem as the box is first downscaling everying to 480p then sending it to the Panny which is upscaling to 1080p. You need to go into setup on the HD Dish STB and either set NATIVE to ON (it's off now) or else uncheck 480p and check 1080i in the HD Dish STB setup. If you're paying for HD programing and have a HD dish or a HD DVR then you're getting HD programming on those channels that broadcast in either 720p or 1080i.
post #196 of 280
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkFudge View Post

How are all you folks using settings so high such as PICTURE in the 20-25 range and BRIGHTNESS in the 15-20 range????

If I increase the picture and brightness anything over 8, it starts to deteriorate visually and become grainy. I like a smoother overall creaminess to my images.

Arent you folks seeing the image noise with the PICTURE slider that high??

Nope, but then your eyes might be more discerning then the rest of us.
post #197 of 280
Hi everyone!
Nice to meet you all here!

Actually, I am from Hong Kong and I just got my Panny 700 50" plasma last weekend and now running the break-in DVD. As I would like to find out the best picture setting for my plasma, I have tried some of the settings in this thread. However, I found out that my scale in the setting menu is a bit different from yours. The main difference is that most of you recommended setting the colour to "0" but if I follow it, the screen will become black-and-white.

Does anyone know whether it is becasue my model is for Asia region?
Is there anyway I can convert your scales to fit Asian models??

THANKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
post #198 of 280
Quote:
Originally Posted by HKHO View Post

Hi everyone!
Nice to meet you all here!

Actually, I am from Hong Kong and I just got my Panny 700 50" plasma last weekend and now running the break-in DVD. As I would like to find out the best picture setting for my plasma, I have tried some of the settings in this thread. However, I found out that my scale in the setting menu is a bit different from yours. The main difference is that most of you recommended setting the colour to "0" but if I follow it, the screen will become black-and-white.

Does anyone know whether it is becasue my model is for Asia region?
Is there anyway I can convert your scales to fit Asian models??

THANKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Welcome. Our settings go from -30 to +30 and include a zero setting. So, if you make -30 a 0 then +30 would be 61. A Picture setting of 0 would obviously be 50%, and a picture setting of say +18 would be 49/61 or about 80%. I don't know what how your set works but you should be able to take it from there.

This is all assuming that our top end of the scale is the same as your top end PQ wise and the same for the bottom end.
post #199 of 280
Chris, thanks for your instant reply!

I hope I interpret your words correctly.
The "absolute" scale of the setting in the TV menu runs from 0 to 100. Now, let me take your figures as example (Default picture level (shown in the TV menu) = 50; Picture setting = +18). Then does it mean that I have to change the "absolute" picture level to 68 in the TV menu???


***Updates***
I believe my interpretation above is incorrect.
I think I should just simply follow this formula,

("Recommended setting" + 31) / 61,

the % figure arrived at will then be used as the setting I should use in the TV menu.

For example, if picture setting = +24, the setting in the TV should be 90, right??
post #200 of 280
Quote:
Originally Posted by seattlehawk View Post

Thanks dsskid. The reason I asked is because I have been playing with settings on my new TH-42PZ700U TV. The last thing I did was turned off CATS but then turned it on right away. Since a couple of days, I have been feeling that picture appear a little blurry or noisy. At close-up, I see a little bit of shadow, if that is the right term, similar to what you would see if you had an antenna which wasnt properly aligned or set. That is more noticeable if there is text on the screen. This is not so noticeable at the usual 10-12 feet distance. By the way, I am referring to HD channels, not SD programming.

So I was concerned if I messed up settings on my TV. However, I have satellite box from dish network and so this may be due to the signal and not TV or it settings. I don't have HD DVD or other HD sources to confirm this, however.

You won't mess up your tv by playing with the settings in the User Menu, but you could do real damage in the service menu if you're not careful and you don't know what you are doing.

A very obvious question that I need to ask is...are you using either an HDMI or componant cables from you satellite box to the Panny? That is the only way that you will be able to send a High Def signal from your box to the Panny, no matter what box you are using. If you aren't then all you will receive is a STD signal (480P).

I have Cable, so I can't speak about your sat box settings, but jdsmoothie is correct regarding setting the box to native and letting the Panny doing the upscaling.

Other things to consider, you can get a "blurry/noisy" picture if your color and picture settings are too high, which can cause what is called "bleeding" (color setting too high), or "blooming effect" (picture setting too high).

If you can't hookup your DVD player to your Panny via componant and don't have access to a calibration disc, you can try some of the settings listed in here:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=978568
and further tweak them to your liking.

Good luck and let us know how you made out.
post #201 of 280
Quote:
Originally Posted by dsskid View Post

A very obvious question that I need to ask is...are you using either an HDMI or componant cables from you satellite box to the Panny?

Good question, although you'd think DISH would have provided the component or HDMI cable when the STB was installed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dsskid View Post


I have Cable, so I can't speak about your sat box settings, but jdsmoothie is correct regarding setting the box to native and letting the Panny doing the upscaling.

To be clear, I was not advocating letting the Panny do the upscaling, rather suggesting it can be done either way. I prefer to let the STB do the upscaling to 1080i.
post #202 of 280
Quote:
Originally Posted by HKHO View Post

I think I should just simply follow this formula,

("Recommended setting" + 31) / 61,

the % figure arrived at will then be used as the setting I should use in the TV menu.

For example, if picture setting = +24, the setting in the TV should be 90, right??

Correct. That works for every non negative setting. Some people have a negative setting for tint, so you'd use (30 - Recommended Setting)/61. So our Tint setting of -4 would be 42 or 43 for you.

It's weird that your 700 has the same scale used in the new 80/85 units.
post #203 of 280
Quote:
Originally Posted by chris0 View Post

It's weird that your 700 has the same scale used in the new 80/85 units.

I think what he's got is the TH-50PY700H and it's my understanding that the non-US sets generally cost more, have more features, (like a 3rd HDMI input, PIP,10,000 contrast) and in this set's instance was released after the 700U was in the states. So apparently they were able to take advantage of the newer settings in the 80/85 series and most likely the 800/850 as well.

They must have figured (after several years of feedback) it was easier for the masses to follow a scale from 0-100 rather than -30 to +30.
post #204 of 280
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

They must have figured (after several years of feedback) it was easier for the masses to follow a scale from 0-100 rather than -30 to +30.

-30 to +30 is definitely a manufacturer-centric way of doing it, as 0 is in the middle of what the set can do. It would make sense if 0 was a baseline average of the setting viewers would use, like it works out to be for Color, Tint and Sharpness. 0 to 100 makes a bit more sense I guess. At least it's not done like a survey..."Strongly Disagree...Disagree...Neutral...Agree...Strongly Agree."
post #205 of 280
MY set seems a little weird after looking at the settings most of you are running.

In Cinema mode, I have:
Picture = +26
Brightness = -12
Color & Tint default (need to break out test disk to do these)
CATS = OFF,
all noise red = OFF
CM = OFF
Black level = light
Color temp = WARM

I'm not sure why I have to turn my Brightness down so far, but I can clearly see blacker-than-black (from a THX test) unless I lower the contrast into the negative values. Almost everyone else I've seen seems to be running about +12 though
post #206 of 280
Quote:
Originally Posted by WRXpilot View Post

MY set seems a little weird after looking at the settings most of you are running.

In Cinema mode, I have:
Picture = +26
Brightness = -12
Color & Tint default (need to break out test disk to do these)
CATS = OFF,
all noise red = OFF
CM = OFF
Black level = light
Color temp = WARM

I'm not sure why I have to turn my Brightness down so far, but I can clearly see blacker-than-black (from a THX test) unless I lower the contrast into the negative values. Almost everyone else I've seen seems to be running about +12 though

Did you mean Brightness? That does seem out of the norm. What is your source for HD?
post #207 of 280
Quote:
Originally Posted by WRXpilot View Post

Brightness = -12


-12 ? "What you talkin about Willis?"
post #208 of 280
Quote:
Originally Posted by dsskid View Post

Did you mean Brightness? That does seem out of the norm. What is your source for HD?

Sorry, I did mean Brightness, not Contrast.

The source is a DVD player inputting via component cables.

It looks good, but I haven't seen anyone else putting up a negative brightness value here, which has me worried.

Oh well, I have an Oppo 980 and colorimeter on the way, so I'll be re calibrating everything when those show up.
post #209 of 280
Quote:
Originally Posted by WRXpilot View Post

Sorry, I did mean Brightness, not Contrast.

The source is a DVD player inputting via component cables.

It looks good, but I haven't seen anyone else putting up a negative brightness value here, which has me worried.

Oh well, I have an Oppo 980 and colorimeter on the way, so I'll be re calibrating everything when those show up.

The only time I needed to drop the Brightness so low (I had it on -19 or -20) was when the local CBS station mistakenly started broadcasting with their black level set way high. It was the only way to get a reasonable picture (else it was a sea of grays). You might check the DVD player settings to see if there's something about 'enhanced black levels' in its setup menus, it could be affecting this. With the Oppo, my bet is these settings will be too dark.
post #210 of 280
Quote:
Originally Posted by rensselaer80 View Post

The only time I needed to drop the Brightness so low (I had it on -19 or -20) was when the local CBS station mistakenly started broadcasting with their black level set way high. It was the only way to get a reasonable picture (else it was a sea of grays). You might check the DVD player settings to see if there's something about 'enhanced black levels' in its setup menus, it could be affecting this. With the Oppo, my bet is these settings will be too dark.

Yeah, I should add that it's only the DVD player, in Cinema picture mode, that is set like this. My X360, PS2, and cable are all closer to levels I've seen others post. The DVD player is a crappy old Toshiba, so the chances that it's the source of the problem are high. I'll see what happens when the Oppo arrives.
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