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Panny PZ700U/750U Calibration Settings & Black Level Poll (Light or Dark?) - Page 8

post #211 of 280
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by WRXpilot View Post

Yeah, I should add that it's only the DVD player, in Cinema picture mode, that is set like this. My X360, PS2, and cable are all closer to levels I've seen others post. The DVD player is a crappy old Toshiba, so the chances that it's the source of the problem are high. I'll see what happens when the Oppo arrives.

I would think it's the DVD player as well. On my Oppo 981HD, with the Oppo picture controls "zero'd" out, and using the DVE calibration disk (note that the THX Optimizer found on the THX Demo Disc II yielded basically identical results), my brightness settings are pretty consistent (albeit higher) than the seemingly +12 to +14 average around here (note that on my D* HR20 using the HDNet Test Pattern, my results are closer to the average). Run it when you get the Oppo and let us know what happens; I can't imagine -12; how can you see anything?!

--Mav
post #212 of 280
Well, just to follow up on my unusual Brightness setting issue...

Oppo 980H was hooked up (via HDMI) last night and very roughly "calibrated" with the THX optimizer. Final verdict: my old DVD player was the culprit. With the Oppo, my Cinema/Warm settings are:
Picture: +27
Brightness: +10
I haven't done Color/Tint yet, but I have a Spyder 2 colorimeter waiting in the wings for a free evening to do these, and check out my grayscale and gamma.
Black level: Light
All processing set to "OFF", although I've played with Mosquito NR "ON" and haven't decided where to leave that one yet.

I know it's not true HD, but this setup has definitely given a new lease on life to my DVD collection; I'll be perfectly content to let BD become mainstream (read: I can buy a player for <= $200) before I take that plunge.
post #213 of 280
Quote:
Originally Posted by WRXpilot View Post

Well, just to follow up on my unusual Brightness setting issue...

Oppo 980H was hooked up (via HDMI) last night and very roughly "calibrated" with the THX optimizer. Final verdict: my old DVD player was the culprit. With the Oppo, my Cinema/Warm settings are:
Picture: +27
Brightness: +10
I haven't done Color/Tint yet, but I have a Spyder 2 colorimeter waiting in the wings for a free evening to do these, and check out my grayscale and gamma.
Black level: Light
All processing set to "OFF", although I've played with Mosquito NR "ON" and haven't decided where to leave that one yet.

I know it's not true HD, but this setup has definitely given a new lease on life to my DVD collection; I'll be perfectly content to let BD become mainstream (read: I can buy a player for <= $200) before I take that plunge.

Congrats on uncovering the problem, and the calibration of your Panny. Enjoy it, it's a great set.
post #214 of 280
I noticed alot of you use lite for blacks. Does the dark setting crush blacks? Do the people who have it on dark adjusted it enough so it wont crush blacks?

Or do people on lite setting just like a brighter picture?
post #215 of 280
Quote:
Originally Posted by Murilo View Post

I noticed alot of you use lite for blacks. Does the dark setting crush blacks? Do the people who have it on dark adjusted it enough so it wont crush blacks?

Or do people on lite setting just like a brighter picture?

IMO...Yes, the Dark Setting crushes blacks and there is a loss of detail in dark or shaded scenes...see for yourself...it's what looks best to your eyes.

I'm obsessed with overall PQ not blacks...if I was all about blacks, I would've gone Pioneer...the 700U has a very clean and detailed PQ...to me, some of this desired detail gets lost with the Black Setting...so, I prefer Light...it's about detail not brightness.
post #216 of 280
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Murilo View Post

I noticed alot of you use lite for blacks. Does the dark setting crush blacks? Do the people who have it on dark adjusted it enough so it wont crush blacks?

Or do people on lite setting just like a brighter picture?

Like BMan said, it's a function of detail, not a preference for a brighter picture. If I want a "brighter" overall picture, I'd bump up the "Picture" setting. As for what "dark" does as opposed to "light", based on my "calibration" using the DVE disc, there was no way to compensate for the ill-effects of starting with "dark" by bumping up the brightness; it appears that "dark" clips off black about 4% too high; that is, even with the brightness set to +30, if the "dark" setting was selected, the low end of grey was not displayed on the DVE Pluge pattern. The only way to get the 4% bar and the 2% bar to display was to set it to "light" and go from there. That's a long way of saying that, in my experience, you can't compensate for what "dark" does by manipulating the brightness control.

--Mav
post #217 of 280
Quote:
Originally Posted by Murilo View Post

I noticed alot of you use lite for blacks. Does the dark setting crush blacks? Do the people who have it on dark adjusted it enough so it wont crush blacks?

Like the above posters, I found that "Dark" crushed black with the inputs I can test (Oppo 980H DVD player via HDMI, Xbox 360 via Comp). It may be suitable for certain HD sources that do not utilize a 7.5 IRE set-up for black though.

It also bears repeating that changing the black level setting to Dark does not change the light output for the set at absolute black. ie: you do not get a "blacker" black by using Dark; the set's minimum light output is fixed.

If you want to check out a punishingly dark movie BTW, check out Sweeny Todd. My wife wanted to watch it last night - the whole movie, aside from one 3 minute scene, is mostly black, or near-black, content.
post #218 of 280
Quote:
Originally Posted by Murilo View Post

I noticed alot of you use lite for blacks. Does the dark setting crush blacks? Do the people who have it on dark adjusted it enough so it wont crush blacks?

Or do people on lite setting just like a brighter picture?

I prefer dark. I haven't done anything special to try to prevent "black crush". I had just set my set's settings to the CNet settings (say that three times, fast), was watching a BluRay disc of Planet Earth, and started switching back and forth between light and dark. Everytime I chose light, the picture looked kind of washed out. When I chose dark, it took on an amazing depth and looked much more realistic, to my eye. So, I have stuck with dark ever since.

Tim
post #219 of 280
But you cant just change that 1 setting
once you change the light/dark you have to compensate in other settings as well to compensate. its not a apples to apples comparison

what were your other settings by the way for each dark/light setting

Quote:
Originally Posted by ratcheer View Post

I prefer dark. I haven't done anything special to try to prevent "black crush". I had just set my set's settings to the CNet settings (say that three times, fast), was watching a BluRay disc of Planet Earth, and started switching back and forth between light and dark. Everytime I chose light, the picture looked kind of washed out. When I chose dark, it took on an amazing depth and looked much more realistic, to my eye. So, I have stuck with dark ever since.

Tim
post #220 of 280
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by kinglerxt View Post

But ytou cant just change that 1 setting
once you change the light/dark you have to compensate in other settings as well to compensate. its not a apples to apples comparison

what were your other settings by the way for each dark/light setting

I think what he's saying is he prefers the "depth" of the picture of the "dark" setting as opposed to the "light" setting with all other settings being equal. He's right that the picture does look "deeper"; no question about that. The reason for that, though, is because with the "dark" setting, it's clipping black higher so (a) there's more black on the screen and (b) the range of black is compressed.

Look at it this way. Since the set will not render the 4% or 2% bars on the DVE Pluge pattern even with Brightness at +30 if it is set to dark then it's safe to assume that the "dark" setting is clipping black at at least 4%; that is, everything 4% and below is displayed as pure black (as pure as the set can muster, anyway). This is not the case when using "light". So, with "Light" if your effective range is 0% for "pure black" (i.e. the darkest the set can get) to 100% for "pure white" (i.e. the lightest the set can get), then with "Dark" your effective range is 4% to 100% with everything between 0% and 4% being displayed as the same "pure black" -- it's "crushing" them together (I just made that up). Hence, the range is compressed and everything looks darker and deeper. It is important to note that there is NO CHANGE in the darkest color (or the lightest color, for that matter) the set can produce by swapping back and forth between "dark" and "light"; it's just that choosing "dark" produces more "black" because it's taking material that shouldn't be black (between 0% and 4%) and making it black.

The trade off, though, is that he's not getting all of the detail he could be getting at the bottom end if he had it set to "light" (since the "dark" setting doesn't render it); but, when he asked himself the question of do I want to see every detail and avoid black crush or do I want a deeper picture, he seems to have decided on the deeper picture.

Nothing wrong with that. Some folks prefer to see all of the detail in the image; some folks are willing to sacrifice some of that detail for a deeper picture.

My .02.

--Mav
post #221 of 280
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maverickster2 View Post

I think what he's saying is he prefers the "depth" of the picture of the "dark" setting as opposed to the "light" setting with all other settings being equal. He's right that the picture does look "deeper"; no question about that. The reason for that, though, is because with the "dark" setting, it's clipping black higher so (a) there's more black on the screen and (b) the range of black is compressed.

Look at it this way. Since the set will not render the 4% or 2% bars on the DVE Pluge pattern even with Brightness at +30 if it is set to dark then it's safe to assume that the "dark" setting is clipping black at at least 4%; that is, everything 4% and below is displayed as pure black (as pure as the set can muster, anyway). This is not the case when using "light". So, with "Light" if your effective range is 0% for "pure black" (i.e. the darkest the set can get) to 100% for "pure white" (i.e. the lightest the set can get), then with "Dark" your effective range is 4% to 100% with everything between 0% and 4% being displayed as the same "pure black" -- it's "crushing" them together (I just made that up). Hence, the range is compressed and everything looks darker and deeper. It is important to note that there is NO CHANGE in the darkest color (or the lightest color, for that matter) the set can produce by swapping back and forth between "dark" and "light"; it's just that choosing "dark" produces more "black" because it's taking material that shouldn't be black (between 0% and 4%) and making it black.

The trade off, though, is that he's not getting all of the detail he could be getting at the bottom end if he had it set to "light" (since the "dark" setting doesn't render it); but, when he asked himself the question of do I want to see every detail and avoid black crush or do I want a deeper picture, he seems to have decided on the deeper picture.

Nothing wrong with that. Some folks prefer to see all of the detail in the image; some folks are willing to sacrifice some of that detail for a deeper picture.

My .02.

--Mav

Well said!
post #222 of 280
Quote:
Originally Posted by kinglerxt View Post

But ytou cant just change that 1 setting
once you change the light/dark you have to compensate in other settings as well to compensate. its not a apples to apples comparison

what were your other settings by the way for each dark/light setting

Like Maverickster2 says, I can if I want to.

Tim
post #223 of 280
I've got a PZ700 and when I goto picture, it doesn't have half of the settings some of you guys have mentioned.

Am I missing something?
post #224 of 280
Quote:
Originally Posted by viper900 View Post

I've got a PZ700 and when I goto picture, it doesn't have half of the settings some of you guys have mentioned.

Am I missing something?

Yes. You'll need to arrow down beyond the first page of settings to get to the 2nd page. Note the down arrow below the last setting on Page 1 (Sharpness). The last item on the 2nd page is Other Adjust, which when selected "should" bring up the remaining settings including black level, 3:2 pulldown and HD Size.
post #225 of 280
So far there have been only two 750U calibration settings in this thread (one of which was from CNET posted by MAV). Have any 750U owners fiddled with the Pro settings yet? I just got the DVE Blu-Ray disc yesterday and started comparing the DVE settings to the settings I got from the HD NET test patterns. Both were about identical, although I still have not been able to reliably set the Pro settings (other than Gamma and Panel brightness). Do any 750U ( or Professional set owners for that matter) have some additional information on how to best calibrate these additional settings?

Settings not listed are either OFF or greyed out:

Model: 50PZ750U
Environment: Dimly lit room using only bias lighting behind display
Source: PS3
Calibration method: DVE Blu-Ray

Picture mode - Custom
Picture - +19
Brightness - +19
Color - -4
Tint - -2
Sharpness - 0 (has no effect at any setting as far as I can tell)
Color temp - Warm

Pro settings

Panel Bright - Low
Gamma adjust - Full 1
Blk ext - 0 (black crush became worse inreasing this above 0)
W/B high R - 0
W/B high B - 0
W/B low R - 0
W/B low B - 0

Other Adjustments

Black level - Light


I bought the DVE disc in part to get the blue color filter, although based on having used it find that eyeballing COLOR using the HDNET test pattern was just as accurate. One benefit I did get from the disc was learning my bias lighting output was much brighter than the recomendation of no brighter than 10% of the display lighting (and it's only a 15 watt bulb).
post #226 of 280
Wow, thanks guys. After getting my 42PZ700U and turning down everything for the break-in period, I was still blown away with the all around better looking picture than most other TVs my friends have.

Having all the settings in one place is great. I went through about 20 of them last night and I'm still messing around with them. I like the way Cinema makes the picture looks a more "real", but I can't seem to get the colors right. It seems to give everything a greenish or darkish clouding when I put it into Cinema mode, even when messing with the Color and Tint.

I will test some more settings tonight and post them up when I try more with my Halo 3 Calibration disc, which is all I have until I can get to BB or something for an HD calibration disc.
post #227 of 280
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sick Boy 82 View Post

I like the way Cinema makes the picture looks a more "real", but I can't seem to get the colors right. It seems to give everything a greenish or darkish clouding when I put it into Cinema mode, even when messing with the Color and Tint.

If you haven't done it already, try turning Color Management OFF (default is ON) which enhances the green reproduction.
post #228 of 280
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

If you haven't done it already, try turning Color Management OFF (default is ON) which enhances the green reproduction.

Yes, Color Management is off.

I am using ChrisO's settings under Custom and bluemark81 settings under Cinema from Page 1.

Current setup:

Model: TH-42PZ700U
Environment Type: One bright skylight window behind the TV
Sources: Toshiba HD-A30 @ 1080P over HDMI, Comcast Motorola HD-DVR ??? @ 720P/1080i over HDMI & Xbox 360 @ 1080P over HDMI.
Calibration Method: Users settings from this thread. Will hopefully be getting a HD-DVD DVE this weekend.

I have only noticed the greenish tint while watching cable. I have yet to check out the new settings while watching movies on the A30 or playing my 360.
post #229 of 280
Good calibration faq/info and step by step walkthru here:

http://www.curtpalme.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=10457
post #230 of 280
I recently got a 50pz700u and have been fooling around with the settings. I have been using a slight variation on the CNET settings and like the look except for the whites. They look very yellowish to me. I know vivid mode doesn't give a great picture and I can see what everyone is talking about with vivid and normal looking overly blue, but both modes seem to whiten up the whites. Does anyone have any suggestions?
post #231 of 280
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigskyirish View Post

I recently got a 50pz700u and have been fooling around with the settings. I have been using a slight variation on the CNET settings and like the look except for the whites. They look very yellowish to me. I know vivid mode doesn't give a great picture and I can see what everyone is talking about with vivid and normal looking overly blue, but both modes seem to whiten up the whites. Does anyone have any suggestions?

You can always go to the second page of the picture settings and select cool, instead of warm.
post #232 of 280
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigskyirish View Post

I recently got a 50pz700u and have been fooling around with the settings. I have been using a slight variation on the CNET settings and like the look except for the whites. They look very yellowish to me. I know vivid mode doesn't give a great picture and I can see what everyone is talking about with vivid and normal looking overly blue, but both modes seem to whiten up the whites. Does anyone have any suggestions?

My suggestion...get used to the slight off-whites...it really only stands out when a great majority of the screen is white...also, if you look at snow and/or clouds, they really aren't white white in real life...I think we get used to the white whites of our LCD computer screens (Yes, I'm rationalizing).

Warm Temperature absolutely gives THE most accurate colors...especially skin tones...Normal just isn't and cool absolutely isn't cool to me.

I've pretty much settled on CNET Custom setting for all TV watching...SD and HD look great...and CNET Cinema setting for all DVD movie watching...a very noise-free and clean PQ.

While not perfect, I am extremely happy with my 50PZ700U.
post #233 of 280
Thanks for the suggestions. I had a feeling that was the answer. I notice it the most when the entire screen is white, and the whites are probably a lot more realistic in actual content. I just get tempted to go for that plasma "pop" from time to time, even though I know it isn't quite as realistic. I'll just keep experimenting.

OT - I posted this in a new thread, but haven't had any luck getting replies. About once every one to two hours, the speakers on the tv make a very audible popping noise. It is short and infrequent, but very noticeable. I described it in my other thread as a short buzz or bug zapper type sound, but it is probably more accurately a short pop. I don't want to clutter this thread with something off topic, but I'm fairly concerned that something might be wrong with the sound.
post #234 of 280
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigskyirish View Post

Thanks for the suggestions.

OT - I posted this in a new thread, but haven't had any luck getting replies. About once every one to two hours, the speakers on the tv make a very audible popping noise. It is short and infrequent, but very noticeable. I described it in my other thread as a short buzz or bug zapper type sound, but it is probably more accurately a short pop. I don't want to clutter this thread with something off topic, but I'm fairly concerned that something might be wrong with the sound.

I previously answered a similar question...the noise isn't from the speakers...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Originally Posted by mod220 View Post

I have a 50pz700u and since I got the tv it has made a "popping" sound. i can hear a sound similiar to when you turn on the heater in your house and you hear the aluminum tweaking. does that make sense? it doesnt matter how long the tv is on, and is not sparked when something is changed, just every 15-30 minutes i get a "pop"

anyone else had this problem?

My reply was/is the following...

It's not a problem...it's the "tubes" within the plasma TV heating and expanding then contracting...just like occurred in old school tube TV's...it's normal...it occurs more frequently on my 50PZ700 then every 15-30 minutes...to me, it sounds like wood crackling in a fire...Panasonic Concerge said it's a normal occurence...it's only considered an issue if it happens very frequently in succession, not randomly and relatively infrequently...I ignore it and chalk it up to a fussy electronic gizmo thing.
post #235 of 280
Im looking at all these settings with the picture and brightness really high.

Isnt this putting the set into "torch" area?

Im just wondering if this will decrease the life of the set or damage it in anyway?
post #236 of 280
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

So far there have been only two 750U calibration settings in this thread (one of which was from CNET posted by MAV). Have any 750U owners fiddled with the Pro settings yet? I just got the DVE Blu-Ray disc yesterday and started comparing the DVE settings to the settings I got from the HD NET test patterns. Both were about identical, although I still have not been able to reliably set the Pro settings (other than Gamma and Panel brightness). Do any 750U ( or Professional set owners for that matter) have some additional information on how to best calibrate these additional settings?

Settings not listed are either OFF or greyed out:

Model: 50PZ750U
Environment: Dimly lit room using only bias lighting behind display
Source: PS3
Calibration method: DVE Blu-Ray

Picture mode - Custom
Picture - +19
Brightness - +19
Color - -4
Tint - -2
Sharpness - 0 (has no effect at any setting as far as I can tell)
Color temp - Warm

Pro settings

Panel Bright - Low
Gamma adjust - Full 1
Blk ext - 0 (black crush became worse inreasing this above 0)
W/B high R - 0
W/B high B - 0
W/B low R - 0
W/B low B - 0

Other Adjustments

Black level - Light


I bought the DVE disc in part to get the blue color filter, although based on having used it find that eyeballing COLOR using the HDNET test pattern was just as accurate. One benefit I did get from the disc was learning my bias lighting output was much brighter than the recomendation of no brighter than 10% of the display lighting (and it's only a 15 watt bulb).


I was able to spend only about 45 minutes working on someone's TH-50PZ750U with my EyeOne Display LT colorimeter and HCFR. I'm heading back soon to do some more tweaking, but in that short time I was able to improve the picture quite a bit. Grayscale is nearly flat from 20 IRE to 80 IRE, but you'll see I can improve it a bit more. One problem I noticed (and also read about) was that when I made adjustments in the service menu's white balance controls, I would get different readings after getting out of the service menu than when I was in the service menu. So for now I made a combination of changes in the service menu and user menu white balance controls.

RGB Levels before:



RGB Levels After:



Color Temp Before:



Color Temp After:



Gamma Before:



Gamma After:



Luminance Before:



Luminance After:



CIE Diagram Before:



CIE Diagram After:




After I get back and finish the calibration, I'll post my results.

-Carl
post #237 of 280
Quote:
Originally Posted by csamos View Post

After I get back and finish the calibration, I'll post my results.

-Carl

Let's see them!
post #238 of 280
Quote:
Originally Posted by h3ro View Post

Let's see them!

I still haven't had a chance to finish the calibration. He decided to get a complete 5.1 audio setup as well, and we're just waiting for the last items to arrive so I can get it all set up and finish the TV at the same time.

Hopefully we'll have it all done in the next week though.

-Carl
post #239 of 280
Quote:
Originally Posted by BMAN1212 View Post

...I have really come to enjoy CNET's Custom Mode Picture Settings for the TH-58PZ700U...most everything (SD/HD/DVDs) looks outstanding and "true" on my TH-50PZ700U...so recently, I tried CNET's recommended Cinema Mode Picture Settings for the TH-42PZ700U...initially, I found them too dim...but these settings definitely give the cleanest, most crystal clear and crisp PQ...I'm not sure if it is the Cinema sub-settings or the reduced brightness but the picture is very very "clean"...last night, I watched a DVD and I found CNET's Cinema Settings to be perfect for this particular DVD...CNET's colors are spot-on natural (although different settings, true for both their Custom & Cinema settings).

So, I am almost there...unfortunately, CNET does not have recommended Standard Picture and Vivid Picture Settings...I have my eyeball Standard Settings that are good but, in the end, not as good as CNET's Custom settings.

Personally, I think that a "professional" calibrator or techie came up with the out-of-the-box CNET settings...realizing that most people won't go into the service menu, they set up the TV as an average consumer would do it (me) with the basic menu options...I really like their settings on my 700U.

Now, my remaining quest is for optimum Vivid and/Standard Picture Settings...ultimately looking for the best settings for viewing sports in both HD and SD.

Does anyone have a SPORTS specific setting for Standard or Vivid Picture?

Thanks.

BMAN, have you ever fulfilled your quest for optimal VIVID settings?
post #240 of 280
Quote:
Originally Posted by wabkab View Post

BMAN, have you ever fulfilled your quest for optimal VIVID settings?

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