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Panny PZ700U/750U Calibration Settings & Black Level Poll (Light or Dark?) - Page 3

post #61 of 280
1/25/08 at 3:30pm
Ive been playing with no LIGHT/DARK setting for a few days now, watching different HD movies and stuff. No doubt DARK looks better, but with the same settings you do loose a little bit of detail. My set has only about 150 hours so its not at its prime yet. I'm gonna up the brightness a little more with the DARK setting when my set has some more hours to try it out again. What about lower the brightness with it set to light?? 15-18 on the brightness is about exactly right on the HD DVE disk with it set to light. Maybe drop it down to like 10 or so...you can still see the 4% above black but not the 2%. I do like the look of the dark setting tho....Im going to keep playing with the settings some more.
Right now I'm at...

Custom
pic: 26
bright: 14
color: -3 or -2
tint: 1
sharp:0
warm
all the extras off
LIGHT blacks....but I do really like the DARK look, just have to mess with the settings a bit....I used the HD DVE version on a xbox 360 w/hmdi. I notice what you are saying Mav. with the DARK setting you cannot see the gray bars in the black box AT ALL even with the settings turned all the way up.

When watching Batman Begins HD the other night, I tried switching back and forth between DARK/LIGHT on an outside night scene. The buildings in the background looked very dark on the dark setting but everything else looked GREAT. When I turned it to LIGHT, I could make out the the buildings were made of bricks and I could see the cracks and designs. So I see your point in the loss of detail, but I also like the look of the Dark setting better as HDmeev suggested.

I will get some more time on this display and try again with some settings...tonight I'm gonna try LIGHT but with the brightness turned down to like 8-10. This still shows me the 4% reference bar on HD DVE disk but not the 2%, should make the blacks better but not terrible crush the detail. Also I will play with the DARK and bump up the brightness to about 18-20.....

HDTVmehh what Picture and Brightness do you use with the DARK setting....I came up with about 28/20 or so???? But its a little to dark still, I do only have 150hrs tho.
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post #62 of 280
1/25/08 at 6:15pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelfa View Post

Ive been playing with no LIGHT/DARK setting for a few days now, watching different HD movies and stuff. No doubt DARK looks better, but with the same settings you do loose a little bit of detail. My set has only about 150 hours so its not at its prime yet. I'm gonna up the brightness a little more with the DARK setting when my set has some more hours to try it out again. What about lower the brightness with it set to light?? 15-18 on the brightness is about exactly right on the HD DVE disk with it set to light. Maybe drop it down to like 10 or so...you can still see the 4% above black but not the 2%. I do like the look of the dark setting tho....Im going to keep playing with the settings some more.
Right now I'm at...

Custom
pic: 26
bright: 14
color: -3 or -2
tint: 1
sharp:0
warm
all the extras off
LIGHT blacks....but I do really like the DARK look, just have to mess with the settings a bit....I used the HD DVE version on a xbox 360 w/hmdi. I notice what you are saying Mav. with the DARK setting you cannot see the gray bars in the black box AT ALL even with the settings turned all the way up.

When watching Batman Begins HD the other night, I tried switching back and forth between DARK/LIGHT on an outside night scene. The buildings in the background looked very dark on the dark setting but everything else looked GREAT. When I turned it to LIGHT, I could make out the the buildings were made of bricks and I could see the cracks and designs. So I see your point in the loss of detail, but I also like the look of the Dark setting better as HDmeev suggested.

I will get some more time on this display and try again with some settings...tonight I'm gonna try LIGHT but with the brightness turned down to like 8-10. This still shows me the 4% reference bar on HD DVE disk but not the 2%, should make the blacks better but not terrible crush the detail. Also I will play with the DARK and bump up the brightness to about 18-20.....

HDTVmehh what Picture and Brightness do you use with the DARK setting....I came up with about 28/20 or so???? But its a little to dark still, I do only have 150hrs tho.

Custom mode
Picture+28
Brightness+16
1000+ hours and getting mo betta blacks.
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post #63 of 280
1/25/08 at 8:10pm
Content seems to dramatically impact overall PQ but one of the following two settings makes the picture look sweet on my TH-50PZ700U...I'll just flip from one to the other to define my preference for that particular SD/HD/DVD program.

Standard
Pic +24
Br +9
Color -2
Tint 0
Sharp 0 (or sometimes +7)
Color Temp. Normal
Color Mgtmt. On
"Others" All Off
Black Level Light
HD Size 2

Custom
Pic +22
Br +9
Color -2
Tint 0
Sharp 0
Color Temp. Warm
Color Mgtmt. Off
"Others" All Off
Black Level Light
HD Size 2

So...in the end...after falling into the Calibration Abyss...my eyeballing it (Standard) and CNET (Custom) seem to pretty much see eye to eye.

Ahhh...what an exercise...but I see a beautiful PQ...lively with "true" colors, detailed deep blacks and "natural" white whites.
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post #64 of 280
1/28/08 at 10:43am
Standard
Pic +12
Brightness +9
Color -2
Tint 0
Sharpness -15
Color Temp Warm
Black Level Light
HD size 2.

Comments: Regarding Brightness. I adjusted my brightness two notches above what Avia was telling me. I appeared to lose too much detail in the darkest areas. However, i still feel i am losing some detail in the darkets of scenes. For example, yesterday I watched the Mummy in HD and was paying close attention to the tomb scenes. I would pause the movie while they were walking in the dark caverns to adjust the brightness. I noticed when I turned the brightness up there was some details, like crevaces in the wall that appeared, however if I left the brightness at this level (around + 14) the image appeared a little washed out. My question is how do I adjust my set to get all of the details in the darkest of areas without having a hint of a washed out image?

Contrast: This is another one that is really difficult for me. When I look a a needle pulses and grey step pattern I notice that the very top grayscale block starts blooming around the edges and looses some detail around 12 with the above settings. However, if I leave the picture at +12 the image looks a bit dim. The image looks a lot brighter at +18 however this does not coincide with my needle pulses and graystep pattern. I noticed a lot of you have your picutre at +18 -- +24. Doesn't this cause your grey step pattern to glow or bloom or lose detail around the edges of the grayscale steps? What exactly should I be looking for when adjusting contrast?

Cinema Mode: Many of you have stated that Cinema Mode is brighter than Standard mode. However for me this is just the opposite. Cinema mode is darker for me. Is Cinema mode the preffered mode for movie viewing? I just can't seem to get the details in the blacks in Cinema mode that I can in Standard Mode.

Color Temp: Many of you are using Normal Color temp. However, I have noticed that the Warm color temps make my grayscale patterns look the closest to gray. I have a proffesionally calibrated Toshiba 50H84 in the basement. And the Gray Scale in "Warm" temperature mode on my Panny 50PZ700U looks very close to the gray scale on my Tosh.

I really need some help on these issues as I am starting to annoy my wife with in-movie picture adjustments. I really want to figure out how to properly adjust blacks and whites so details present in dark areas are shown without having a washed out effect on the image....Or did the director intend us not to see some of the details present on dark cave walls in the underground?

Edit...I did notice that by raising the Picture to 16 or 18 I get a little bit more detail in my blacks. I noticed this in a dark cave scene in the Mummy in HD. However, when I throw avia or DVE back in I notice some blurring of the edges of the grey step and needle pulses at this setting. What I am getting at here is if I go with what DVE and avia are telling me I lose detail in my blacks and have a dim image because contrast is set lower. Ugh!
Thanks.
Dan.
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post #65 of 280
1/28/08 at 1:27pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dlenart25 View Post

Standard
Pic +12
Brightness +9
Color -2
Tint 0
Sharpness -15
Color Temp Warm
Black Level Light
HD size 2.

Comments: Regarding Brightness. I adjusted my brightness two notches above what Avia was telling me. I appeared to lose too much detail in the darkest areas. However, i still feel i am losing some detail in the darkets of scenes. For example, yesterday I watched the Mummy in HD and was paying close attention to the tomb scenes. I would pause the movie while they were walking in the dark caverns to adjust the brightness. I noticed when I turned the brightness up there was some details, like crevaces in the wall that appeared, however if I left the brightness at this level (around + 14) the image appeared a little washed out. My question is how do I adjust my set to get all of the details in the darkest of areas without having a hint of a washed out image?

As for getting the the most detail out of the darkest areas without having a hint of washout, depending on your definition of washout, that may be impossible. As you've no doubt discovered by now, generally speaking, bumping it up will give you more detail and bumping it down will improve the depth of the picture and reduce "washout". But, it's important to remember that there's a point after which bumping it up will not result in ANY more detail at all. The "idea" in the calibration discs is to find that point by setting the brightness to the absolute lowest setting that allows you to still render the 0% reference black. Since there is nothing darker than that 0% reference point, setting brightness higher than that gets you nowhere (since there is no more detail to be had). That said, some folks find still find that setting "too washed out" and prefer to have the brightness even lower to get a deeper image. While that will result in a loss of detail at the low end, if you're one of those people, you should lower the brightness to remove what you're seeing as "wash out". In the end, it's a balancing act. What I would do is use the calibration disc to determine where it recommends you set the brightness (so that the 0% reference black disappears) then bump it down until you don't see wash out anymore. The important point is to not go above the point recommended by the calibration tool. Before you do that however, you should adjust your Picture/Contrast. Remember that Brightness and Contrast are related. Changes in one will pretty much necessitate changes in the other. Once you settle on an acceptable Picture/Contrast setting (more on that below), then adjust your Brightness.

Quote:


Contrast: This is another one that is really difficult for me. When I look a a needle pulses and grey step pattern I notice that the very top grayscale block starts blooming around the edges and looses some detail around 12 with the above settings. However, if I leave the picture at +12 the image looks a bit dim. The image looks a lot brighter at +18 however this does not coincide with my needle pulses and graystep pattern. I noticed a lot of you have your picutre at +18 -- +24. Doesn't this cause your grey step pattern to glow or bloom or lose detail around the edges of the grayscale steps? What exactly should I be looking for when adjusting contrast?

My Picture/Contrast setting is driven as much by the brightness of my room as it is by the disc. That said, I didn't get any significant blooming at the level I have it at.

Quote:


Cinema Mode: Many of you have stated that Cinema Mode is brighter than Standard mode. However for me this is just the opposite. Cinema mode is darker for me. Is Cinema mode the preffered mode for movie viewing? I just can't seem to get the details in the blacks in Cinema mode that I can in Standard Mode.

I don't use cinema mode either.

Quote:


Color Temp: Many of you are using Normal Color temp. However, I have noticed that the Warm color temps make my grayscale patterns look the closest to gray. I have a proffesionally calibrated Toshiba 50H84 in the basement. And the Gray Scale in "Warm" temperature mode on my Panny 50PZ700U looks very close to the gray scale on my Tosh.

I had a tough time going to Warm, but once I did and stuck with it for awhile, I don't think there's any question it gives a more realistic picture.

Good luck!

--Mav
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post #66 of 280
1/28/08 at 2:37pm
When I mean washed out I mean the blacks in the picture do not look black they are lighter, have a foggy appearance to them, whitewashed or have a light have effect to them. Lowering brightness makes the blacks look black not whitewashed.. If I raised the brightness to see every picture detail in the darkest of scenes then the rest of my picture looks a bit whitwashed, foggy, lighter than black etc..However, lowering the brightness I get rid of the haze but lose minor details in the darkest of scenes.

Dan.
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post #67 of 280
1/28/08 at 3:04pm
OK. I threw in the movie I-Robot and went straight to the U are having an accident scene. I was looking at Will Smith's jacket while he was in his car. There is a lot of black in this scene. I paused and adjusted brightness so that I could see all the creases in his jacket while maintaining the blackness in the background without getting the washed out effect. I skipped forward a couple of seconds to where he engaged manual override and the steering wheel popped out. I paused it and payed close attention to the door panel arm rest. I noticed if my brightness was too low I would lose the upper part of the arm rest in a black abyss. I adjusted it to the point where I could barely see the outline of the whole armrest in the door panel and this appeared to be a good level. I've noticed that you get past a certain point where no more detail can be seen in the black and the blacks become washed out. i adjusted the brightness so I could see the maximum detail in the blacks right before the screen becomes washed out. After I set blacks using this scene I went to the Hologram scene. very good shot of Will Smith in a brightly lit white room wearing a black leather jacket. I could see every crease in his jacket and the picture did not look washed out. White levels do seem a bit high but bumping up contrast a bit helped get the most details out of the blacks while maintaining a dark deep black level. It could be that I'm just used to my 50H84 RPTV in the basement where i do not get the same brightness from my contrast control, it definately is a dimmer image but I enjoy the filmlike quality it produces. Anyway, I will try this for a while even though it is 4 notches higher in brightness that what avia recommends.
As a benchmark I noticed blacks start getting washed out around + 14 on my set. However no considerable detail can be gained by going from +10--+14 on my set. to confirm this I skipped to scene 12 (The interogation) in the movie where the beginning of the scene shows a good night shot of the city. Black level looked beautiful. Going from +10 -- +14 confirmed that washout, lightening of blacks, haze, etc was present. The combination of this and my ability to see the shadow details in the You are having an accident scene and will smiths coat in the Dr Lannings holigram scene made me feel comfortable with these new levels. Again, contrast seemed to have a great effect on getting the most detail from my levels. With brightness set to +10 and contrast set to +12 I was losing a lot of shadow detail. Bumping Contrast up to 18-20 really really helped achieve the most shadow details..Setting the brightness gets you in the ball park but the contrast fine tunes it. Contrast does not have this same effect on my Toshiba 50H84 RPTV in the basement.

After setting black levels correctly I watched scene 14 dr lannings house. There is some good reference black in there. Not once did I squint my eyes trying to see the picture. Looked beautiful. When will smith gets out of the car in front of the house you can see all the detail in his black leather jacket while the night sky was pitch black. I have come to the conclusion that I-Robot has soom good refernce quality blacks and plenty of whites to test your contrast.

Edit...Thought some of you might find this interesting. Decided to pit my Panny 50PZ700U up against my ole reliable Tosh 50H84 using the I-robot. Shadow detail and black level performance was impeccable on my ISF calibrated Tosh. Movies are definately more filmlike on the RPTV. Something that just can't seem to by duplicated by any other display technology besides Front Projection. Shadow detail of the Tosh was superior on the RPTV however black levels were good on the Panny, I could get the black on the Panny the same as the Toshiba but at the expense of some shadow detail. I could make out every picture in the shadows of the tosh. However, Colors are more prominent and overall brightness of monitor remains supreme on the Plasma. My Plasma is beautiful but sometimes there just nothing like getting that film quality look of the RPTV...It is a sad fact that RPTV's are going extinct but I think the future is in good hands with Plasmas like the Panny 50pz700U

Thanks for letting me mumble on here.
Here's what I settled on
Standard.
Brightness:+10
Picture +20
color temp Warm
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post #68 of 280
1/29/08 at 5:31am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dlenart25 View Post

OK. I threw in the movie I-Robot and went straight to the U are having an accident scene. I was looking at Will Smith's jacket while he was in his car. There is a lot of black in this scene. I paused and adjusted brightness so that I could see all the creases in his jacket while maintaining the blackness in the background without getting the washed out effect. I skipped forward a couple of seconds to where he engaged manual override and the steering wheel popped out. I paused it and payed close attention to the door panel arm rest. I noticed if my brightness was too low I would lose the upper part of the arm rest in a black abyss. I adjusted it to the point where I could barely see the outline of the whole armrest in the door panel and this appeared to be a good level. I've noticed that you get past a certain point where no more detail can be seen in the black and the blacks become washed out. i adjusted the brightness so I could see the maximum detail in the blacks right before the screen becomes washed out. After I set blacks using this scene I went to the Hologram scene. very good shot of Will Smith in a brightly lit white room wearing a black leather jacket. I could see every crease in his jacket and the picture did not look washed out. White levels do seem a bit high but bumping up contrast a bit helped get the most details out of the blacks while maintaining a dark deep black level. It could be that I'm just used to my 50H84 RPTV in the basement where i do not get the same brightness from my contrast control, it definately is a dimmer image but I enjoy the filmlike quality it produces. Anyway, I will try this for a while even though it is 4 notches higher in brightness that what avia recommends.
As a benchmark I noticed blacks start getting washed out around + 14 on my set. However no considerable detail can be gained by going from +10--+14 on my set. to confirm this I skipped to scene 12 (The interogation) in the movie where the beginning of the scene shows a good night shot of the city. Black level looked beautiful. Going from +10 -- +14 confirmed that washout, lightening of blacks, haze, etc was present. The combination of this and my ability to see the shadow details in the You are having an accident scene and will smiths coat in the Dr Lannings holigram scene made me feel comfortable with these new levels. Again, contrast seemed to have a great effect on getting the most detail from my levels. With brightness set to +10 and contrast set to +12 I was losing a lot of shadow detail. Bumping Contrast up to 18-20 really really helped achieve the most shadow details..Setting the brightness gets you in the ball park but the contrast fine tunes it. Contrast does not have this same effect on my Toshiba 50H84 RPTV in the basement.

After setting black levels correctly I watched scene 14 dr lannings house. There is some good reference black in there. Not once did I squint my eyes trying to see the picture. Looked beautiful. When will smith gets out of the car in front of the house you can see all the detail in his black leather jacket while the night sky was pitch black. I have come to the conclusion that I-Robot has soom good refernce quality blacks and plenty of whites to test your contrast.

Edit...Thought some of you might find this interesting. Decided to pit my Panny 50PZ700U up against my ole reliable Tosh 50H84 using the I-robot. Shadow detail and black level performance was impeccable on my ISF calibrated Tosh. Movies are definately more filmlike on the RPTV. Something that just can't seem to by duplicated by any other display technology besides Front Projection. Shadow detail of the Tosh was superior on the RPTV however black levels were good on the Panny, I could get the black on the Panny the same as the Toshiba but at the expense of some shadow detail. I could make out every picture in the shadows of the tosh. However, Colors are more prominent and overall brightness of monitor remains supreme on the Plasma. My Plasma is beautiful but sometimes there just nothing like getting that film quality look of the RPTV...It is a sad fact that RPTV's are going extinct but I think the future is in good hands with Plasmas like the Panny 50pz700U

Thanks for letting me mumble on here.
Here's what I settled on
Standard.
Brightness:+10
Picture +20
color temp Warm

Most folks will tell you not to use content to "calibrate" the set since there's no real way of knowing *for sure* what "absolute" black is. That said, it seems that the Avia disc was throwing some weird results at you. I wonder why that is. Did you bump up the picture/contrast setting to 20 and then re-try setting the brightess using Avia? Just curious. If the Avia disc had done its job, after "calibrating" it with the disc, you shouldn't have been able to render more shadow detail on iRobot by bumping the brightness up. No matter, judging by your thorough report, you seem to have gotten good results your happy with and that's what matters. Congrats!!

--Mav

P.S. Since you had your RPTV professionally calibrated, have you given any thought to having your plasma calibrated as well? I haven't done that (yet), but most folks around here who have have reported quite good results. Good luck!
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post #69 of 280
1/29/08 at 6:48am
Dan...I like your approach...at some point, I think that you have to trust your eyes...I'm sure that the "experts" will consider it blasphemous but I really think that you should set it by what looks best to your eyes...not to "what is supposed to look best to your eyes."

One thing is clear...the TH-50PZ700 got is pretty right with the Color (-2) and Tint (0)...Black Level at Light...Color Temp. - well, Warm if you must - although some things look better in Normal to my eyes...Sharpness is simply personal pereference towards softness of the picture...that dramatically reduces your tweaking needs...you are now reduced to Picture and Brightness.

For Brightness...I calibrated very similarly to your approach...push brightness to the point where you see all detail then back off until you just start to clip blacks and show loss of detail...then bump it up...and repeat over varied content...my goal - achieve a happy medium setting with rich colors and deep blacks but no great loss of detail.

For Picture...I look at an outdoor daytime scene (especially sky) and then a darker image for comparison...again, probably not what the pros would do...but I pushed the Picture all the way up then backed it down until I saw what appeared realistic with regard to content (like looking out my window if it was a daylight-type image)...too bright is hard on the eyes, too dark is a dim image...my goal - achieve a happy medium setting.

In the end, we are very close (mine being, Pic +22-24, Br +9)...as some suggest, I'm not convinced that every same model plasma TV is independent of the rest regarding PQ...viewing enviroment is a key contributor but, that said, these TV's seem very similar if so many of us end up with very similar settings (also surprisingly similar to CNET's recommended settings)...lastly, Cinema Mode is it's own animal..I've gotten very nice PQ but only with certain content...Cinema seems like one setting mode for the pros to cailbrate.

Enjoy!!!

Note: I've found the X-Games to be great for tweaking black level / white levels...fine detail in the snow versus fine detail of black stiching on black gloves, etc.
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post #70 of 280
1/30/08 at 12:12pm
Great thread Mav. My 50pe700u is on the way. Does any one know how simulate the settings for the Studio ref. mode and pro settings on the 750? Wanted that model but the price was just to good on the 700.
Thanks
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post #71 of 280
1/31/08 at 4:30am
Guys,

I just got a 58PZ700 for my newly built home theater in my basement. I had it running at picture = 0 for 100 hrs to break it in and now I have to set it up for a SB party that I'm hosting. I'm away on business so I haven't had time to play with the settings so I've printed this thread and gave it to my 13 yr old daughter to play with it. I'll only have Sat & Sun to tune the settings. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

-juan
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post #72 of 280
1/31/08 at 5:03am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by inca98 View Post

Guys,

I just got a 58PZ700 for my newly built home theater in my basement. I had it running at picture = 0 for 100 hrs to break it in and now I have to set it up for a SB party that I'm hosting. I'm away on business so I haven't had time to play with the settings so I've printed this thread and gave it to my 13 yr old daughter to play with it. I'll only have Sat & Sun to tune the settings. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

-juan

Everybody's different, but if your setting it up exclusively for the football game, I'd probably do the following:

Picture Mode: Custom
Picture: 20 to 24
Brightness: 8 to 12
Color: -1 to +1
Tint: 0 to +2
Sharpness: 0
Color Temp: Normal
Color Mgmt: On
C.A.T.S.: Off
Zoom Adjust: Greyed Out
PC Adjust: Greyed Out
Video NR: Off
3D Y/C Filter: Off
Color Matrix: HD
Block NR: Off
Mosquito NR: Off
Black Level: Light
3:2 Pulldown: Off
HD Size: Size 2

You'll get WAY more "pop" in your greens and blues by bumping up the color and tint a bit (particularly with the color management on and the color temp down to normal), and since low level shadow detail is not much of an issue on a bright football game, you won't be giving up much by dropping the brightness down, but you will gain "depth". Another poster awhile back said he uses whatever his settings normally are and then just toggles back and forth between "dark" for black level for sporting events and "light" for normal content; that might work well for you too, but depending on what your settings "normally are" it might crush the black too much.

Good luck!

--Mav
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post #73 of 280
1/31/08 at 6:46am
i like mavericks settings for the 58. i use warm temp most of time. however it seems the whites are whiter on normal. anyone else feel the same? i would like the same whites in warm mode. i guess that means pro calibration.
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post #74 of 280
1/31/08 at 8:21am
i'm still getting used to it on the warm setting too. I think cooler looking whites somehow tell the brain that they are whiter, although it affects the other colors as well.
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post #75 of 280
1/31/08 at 3:05pm
I got my 58PZ700U in July, and although I have followed the owners thread on a daily basis, I find myself skipping thru any posts that don't deal with video settings. So this thread is a breath of fresh air!

I used Avia to calibrate back in July. I have an HDMI connection to a Comcast Motorola STB. My room is fairly bright in the daytime, and low ambient or dark in the evenings. I've pretty much used the same mode regardless of time of day. My settings are:

Mode: Custom
Picture: +27
Brightness: +8
Sharpness: -1 (although it doesn't seem to matter. I'd like more advice here.)
Color: -1
Tint: -3
Color Temp: Normal
Color Mgmt: Off
CATS: off
Video NR: off
Block NR: off
Mosquito NR: on (only because Randy said so I have no idea what it does! In fact I'd like input and opinions on all the NR settings.)
Black level: light
3/2 pulldown: on
Size: 2

I have really liked this setting. It's really good for sports. I feel like I'm getting ggreat black detail without crush, and no washout from being too bright/white. But many seem to think that a warm color temp is more accurate. I just switched to warm, and of course it looks strange. But I will leave it there and re-calibrate with Avia this weekend.

I will report back.
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post #76 of 280
1/31/08 at 3:32pm
Thanks Mav & treyhooper! I'll see how they look when I get home.

I'm flying home from Chicago to NJ tomorrow night. I hope I don't get stuck at the airport because of the snow

-juan
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post #77 of 280
2/1/08 at 5:27am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by treyhooper View Post

I got my 58PZ700U in July, and although I have followed the owners thread on a daily basis, I find myself skipping thru any posts that don't deal with video settings. So this thread is a breath of fresh air!

I used Avia to calibrate back in July. I have an HDMI connection to a Comcast Motorola STB. My room is fairly bright in the daytime, and low ambient or dark in the evenings. I've pretty much used the same mode regardless of time of day. My settings are:

Mode: Custom
Picture: +27
Brightness: +8
Sharpness: -1 (although it doesn't seem to matter. I'd like more advice here.)
Color: -1
Tint: -3
Color Temp: Normal
Color Mgmt: Off
CATS: off
Video NR: off
Block NR: off
Mosquito NR: on (only because Randy said so I have no idea what it does! In fact I'd like input and opinions on all the NR settings.)
Black level: light
3/2 pulldown: on
Size: 2

I have really liked this setting. It's really good for sports. I feel like I'm getting ggreat black detail without crush, and no washout from being too bright/white. But many seem to think that a warm color temp is more accurate. I just switched to warm, and of course it looks strange. But I will leave it there and re-calibrate with Avia this weekend.

I will report back.

To be frank with you, I tried all of the NRs on both "clean" HD content and "dirty" SD content and didn't notice much of a difference with any of them except that Video NR tended to soften the image fairly substantially. As for Sharpness, the general consensus seems to be that it doesn't do anything (or, at least, that it doesn't sharpen the image any). As for the "warm" color setting, I'm sure you noticed right away that flesh tones looked much more natural. Give it a week to 10 days and I think you'll see that everything else looks more natural as well. It really is a dramatic difference in the overall picture quality if you ask me (and not 2 months ago I swore I'd never switch it from Normal). After you get used to that, switching back to Normal will pretty clearly "blue" everything up and Cool is just unwatchable. That's my experience anyway. YMMV.

--Mav
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post #78 of 280
2/1/08 at 5:32am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by inca98 View Post

Thanks Mav & treyhooper! I'll see how they look when I get home.

I'm flying home from Chicago to NJ tomorrow night. I hope I don't get stuck at the airport because of the snow

-juan

Good luck. It's a frickin' mess right now in these parts.

--Mav
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post #79 of 280
2/1/08 at 5:57am
Treyhooper...I tried your settings last night...they looked phenomenal watching the Celtics/Mavs game on TNT HD...BUT...the second game, Suns/Spurs, not so phenomenal...I preferred my settings.

I believe that the actual aesthetic of the basketball court was the determining factor re. PQ between these two games.

I will say that your settings are on the bright side but definitely bring sports alive...very HD plasma "pop"-ish for want of a better term...my settings are easier on the eyes but not quite as 3-D as yours.

Your settings may be excellent for the Super Bowl...I look forward to seeing your calibrated settings in Warm Temp. Mode.

Thanks for sharing...
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post #80 of 280
2/2/08 at 3:48am
What are people's opinions as to the effect of turning Color Management On or Off?
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post #81 of 280
2/2/08 at 8:14am
As I mentioned in an earlier post, today I re-calibrated my set using Avia. This is the first time since July that I have done this. I wanted to re-check my current settings with Color Temp set to Normal (which has been my historical preference) and also do a calibration with Color Temp set to Warm.

On the first test with Color Temp set to Normal, I confirmed that my Color and Tint are accurate at -1 and -3, respectively. This test was easy and conclusive.

Sharpness continued to have absolutely no effect, so I have put it at zero.

I am not crazy about the Avia test for white level. It is an older test best suited to CRT displays. I was not able to determine if my current setting of +27 is still the appropriate setting or not, so I left it at +27.

Lastly I did change the black level (Brightness) from +8 to +12. I am sure I performed this test correctly and thoroughly.

Next I changed the Color Temp to Warm and recalibrated. I got all the same measurements as when the Color Temp was Normal. Even the color and tint settings remained the same, which did surprise me a little.

So now it's a matter of determining my personal preference for a Warm or Normal Color Temp. I am having a hard time adjusting to Warm, but I'll keep trying for a while.

I have also turned off Mosquito NR, since I can't seem to tell a difference. Color Management is also Off, but I'm looking for input on that.

So my final setting are:

TV: 58PZ700U
STB: Comcast Motorola (HDMI to TV)
DVD: Panny DMP-BD30 (HDMI to TV)
Mode: Custom
Picture: +27
Brightness: +12
Sharpness: 0 (although it doesn't seem to matter.)
Color: -1
Tint: -3
Color Temp: Normal (or Warm)
Color Mgmt: Off
CATS: off
Video NR: off
Block NR: off
Mosquito NR: off
Black level: light
3/2 pulldown: on
Size: 2

There you have it. I'd love any feedback and opinions.
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post #82 of 280
2/2/08 at 11:50am
Quote:
Originally Posted by treyhooper View Post

What are people's opinions as to the effect of turning Color Management On or Off?

The manual states that it's to enhance green and blue, and from my limited time playing with it I'd say that's accurate. For me it pushes green and blue a bit too much. Either way I think you'd want to calibrate after changing the setting.

Hmm, maybe if you think the set pushes red too much you could turn CM on and recalibrate. That might have the effect of lowering reds while keeping everything else the same.
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post #83 of 280
2/2/08 at 8:29pm
Hey guys I made it back from from Chicago. It only took me 7 hrs

I tried (actually my daughter did the work) Mav's settings and my Comcast Moto HD DVR feed looks great. I did notice some ants on the top of my screen when I looked at Fox HD though. I changed my HD Size to 1 and they went away. Is there something else I should adjust? I have to confess I haven't read the manual yet so I'm not totally verse on this set yet.
I also noticed that not all Fox shows are full widescreen HD programming I hope I can watch the game in Full aspect ratio. Is this the best setting?

-juan

BTW Go Giants!!!
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post #84 of 280
2/3/08 at 5:53am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by inca98 View Post

Hey guys I made it back from from Chicago. It only took me 7 hrs

I tried (actually my daughter did the work) Mav's settings and my Comcast Moto HD DVR feed looks great. I did notice some ants on the top of my screen when I looked at Fox HD though. I changed my HD Size to 1 and they went away. Is there something else I should adjust? I have to confess I haven't read the manual yet so I'm not totally verse on this set yet.
I also noticed that not all Fox shows are full widescreen HD programming I hope I can watch the game in Full aspect ratio. Is this the best setting?

-juan

BTW Go Giants!!!

HD Size 2 shows you 100% of broadcast feed and 1:1 pixel mapping on 1080 sources. HD Size 1 introduces overscan so that only 95% of the broadcast feed is seen and the rest is cut off arond the edges; in other words, it "zooms in" so that only 95% of the image is visible. Unfortunately, some broadcasters assume a certain amount of overscan so they allow a bunch of junk to be around the edges. Because many folks think that 1:1 pixel mapping improves picture quality, some folks (myself included) just leave it on HD 2 most of the time and just ignore the garbage around the edges (which usually only shows up in my case on NBC on the left side and on 4:3 SD commercials along the top).

This should be a non-issue for your superbowl party since Fox broadcasts at 720p. Go to Fox and then try to change the "HD Size"; it should be greyed out.

Have fun!

--Mav
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post #85 of 280
2/3/08 at 2:08pm
I have a Panasonic TH-50PZ750U coming late next week from Vanns. Does any of you have Cal. settings for this? or are they similar to the 700U?
1 more thing, how bout the "DARK" Settings for 58PZ750U that CNET ?

thanks guys!!


Go Giants!!
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post #86 of 280
2/3/08 at 2:12pm
I see that most of you have the option to change the Color matrix to HD and the option to change the HD size, all I have set up right now is my H21 Directv receiver, and my TV will not allow me to change these settings. There was mention that the HD size relates to the broadcast feed. If so, how do I get this to not be "grayed out". Any input regarding this?

I think I will have the option to change the color matrix when I hook up my Blue Ray Player. I've read the manual and it states that the color matrix pertains to the components hooked up. Can anyone concur with this?
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post #87 of 280
2/3/08 at 2:44pm
I'm approaching 25 hours and trying to resist turning Picture/Brightness up. I've always thought warm was too "golden", but after reading this thread I understand the blue/white comment on normal and I'm going to give warm a try. I am adjusting to it, seems like your brain compensates for the slightly creamy whites after awhile.

Just for grins, I plugged everyone's numbers into a spreadsheet to see the averages. I didn't count the CNET settings and I took into account that not everyone listed every setting. If I got it all correct, here is the average of this thread to date. CNET settings on left for reference:

CNET _ Thread avg _________ Setting
_22 ___ 23.0 _______________ Picture
__9 ___ 12.3 _______________ Brightness
_-2 ___ -1.6 _______________ Color
__0 ___ -0.6 _______________ Tint
-30 ___ -2.7 _______________ Sharpness
warm __ (6 normal / 7 warm) __ Color Temp
off ____ (5 on / 7 off) _______ Color Mgmt


My settings:
Source SD THX disc upconverted to 1080p on Sony S300 blu-ray (blu-ray set to standard/normal output) and Die Hard 4 on blu-ray; fairly dark room:
Update 3/3/08 - I'm now past the break-in, messed with it again to see where the settings seemed like they were right using the THX optimizer, then I modified slightly watching Die Hard 4 on blu-ray. Using the THX optimizer I could not get the picture/contrast block to go solid white even with the picture turned up to 30. With my picture set to 25 in a fairly dark room the 7th block on black test becomes visible to me at about Brightness 8, I settled on 11. I seem to like Color at 0-2 watching blu-ray DVD with normal setting. I tried "warm" but it still seems to "golden" to me. I turned my color mgmt "off" as it seemed to turn grass bluish on Lord of the Rings SD.

To my eyes the averages seemed about right for most things. So my settings for DVDs seem like this:
25 ___ Picture
11 ___ Brightness (9 on broadcast TV)
_2 ___ Color (0 on broadcast TV)
_0 ___ Tint (I wasn't sure so stuck with the thread avg on this)
-3 ___ Sharpness (I wasn't sure so stuck with the thread avg on this)
normal Color Temp
off ___ Color Mgmt
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post #88 of 280
2/4/08 at 5:56am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by timzo View Post

I see that most of you have the option to change the Color matrix to HD and the option to change the HD size, all I have set up right now is my H21 Directv receiver, and my TV will not allow me to change these settings. There was mention that the HD size relates to the broadcast feed. If so, how do I get this to not be "grayed out". Any input regarding this?

I think I will have the option to change the color matrix when I hook up my Blue Ray Player. I've read the manual and it states that the color matrix pertains to the components hooked up. Can anyone concur with this?

I don't think you can adjust the Color Matrix. I think it just does it automatically depending on what type of source you have. As for HD Size, if you go to a channel broadcasting in 1080i or you switch to a 1080i/p source, you can switch it; it can't be switched when the source is 720p.

--Mav
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post #89 of 280
2/4/08 at 11:32am
just got the 42" version this weekend, and although i am only viewing sd at the moment (waiting for cables from monoprice - should arrive today) i am pretty stunned at how well this tv displays sd. in fact, one of my main hesitations about even getting a new HDTV was their inability to properly handle the bulk of the available programming (at least the tvs my friends have).

anyway, what settings should i use to break in the tv, and is it really necessary to not watch channels with logos during the break in period?

thanks
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post #90 of 280
2/6/08 at 6:03pm
HD Size: Size 2...
what does this setting do? what is difference between HD1 and HD2?
thanks
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