Official Classe SSP-800 thread. - Page 147

I would think it be close to impossible to draw any meaningful conclusions between the AVP and SSP-800 since your SSP was paired with completely different speakers. But you should be able to get closer to the truth by making a trip over to CG's place with your reference tracks, seeing as you both own the same speakers.

Oh and you should wait until the Audyssey XT32 upgrade is available for the AVP before you jump ship. The early reports are that XT32 provides cleaner mid / high range than standard XT.

That, and much better selectivity in bass adjustments. IOW, it is better across the entire spectrum.

I have the AVP-A1 and had it both professionally calibrated and self-calibrated with the Audyssey Pro kit. I've also owned a Denon 4311, with external amplification, and again, calibrated both professionally and with the Pro kit. (in fact, I'd performed dozens of Pro calibrations on both).

In the same room with the same speakers, neither compared superior to my uncalibrated SSP - the A1 is very good, and XT32 will make some difference, but I don't think materially. Partly this is because I think Audyssey ultimately make things sound different but not necessarily better, and I was constantly battling to fight excessive highs and diminished low end. But sonically, the SSP exhibits a markedly superior (fluid, pristine, and enveloping) soundstage that must speak to the core processing and component differences between the designs.

Monday, I'm getting the SSP calibrated, so I'm looking forward to even greater enjoyment from my system.

Ultimately, I will probably get the upgrade for the A1, to increase it's resale value, but will look to compare nonetheless...

I am a former SSP-800 owner and current Denon 5308 owner and while I really enjoyed the sound quality of the SSP, I can't say with any certainty if the SSP was clearly better than the Denon, but I never had the opportunity to compare the two back to back. I can say that I have no problem with excessive highs or deficient lows with Audyssey and my current speaker system. However, I have used Audyssey with enough different speaker systems to know that the subjective appeal of the results varies greatly depending on the speakers being EQ'd. I did not like the results with the B&W 805 Diamonds that I owned a few months ago. The diamonds were already a bit too incisive in the treble when run sans EQ, and Audyssey only made matters worse.

Two points from my perspective:

I've never experienced any incisive highs with my 802's or 803's without Audyssey. While I have the 805's as rears, I've not listened to them as primary speakers so I can't say if they are heavy on the top end, but this is not a quality revealed in their role as rears. The diamond tweeters are remarkably refined and naturally revealing in my environment (fully carpeted floor, moderate drapes and window coverings, sheetrock ceiling).

Secondly, even if there's were an issue with the 805's, one of the main functions of an auto EQ would be to pull their "out of bounds nature" closer inline with a target curve, not exacerbate the problem. As posted, this was one of the problems with Audyssey, and no amount of finagling with the measurement positions, number of samples, or blankets covering my seats could ever change that (that and and the reduction of the low end).

I did feel the 4311 had better bass management, but until I get everything calibrated with the SSP, I don't think I'm prepared to do a final assessment.

For those running calibrated SSP's, do you find the bass management adequate or still prefer some need for an SMS or SubEQ HT?

With 5 fully adjustable PEQ filters for each of the sub channels, you should have more than enough filtering flexibility within the SSP to "correct" the subwoofers in your system. Most rooms only have one or two room-induced peaks that need to be dealt with. You could easily go crazy with numerous filters trying to get the sub output perfectly flat, but it usually isn't worth the trouble unless the peak or dip in the response is more than 3dB.

That's good to know, as I have no desire to add components if I don't need to..

Thanks

Have you considered doing the calibration of the PEQ in the SSP yourself? With free software like Room EQ Wizard and a $100 calibrated mic you would have to tools needed. Then all you need to do is learn how to use them, which can be an interesting and rewarding facet of this hobby.

Or, if you want an all-in-one solution that is a bit more user-friendly, you could go this route:

Dayton Audio OmniMic Precision Measurement System
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/show...number=390-790

I'm embarrassed to say the Dayton kit has been sitting unopened in a box for over a month, and I have had the mindshare to figure it out..

Agreed. Different movie, very different room, different source, different amplifiers, etc... Although I did get to try on same speakers your point is well taken. Maybe time to lug the Denon over to CG. But this is always a risky proposition. Bring cheaper component to compare with hosts more expensive piece.

I've been super impressed with the Denon AVP. Can't wait until the XT32 upgrade comes out but already very happy with the sound.

No worries, when the time is right, you'll take it on. It can be a daunting task to figure out how to use a measurement system AND just as much so trying to understand how to interpret the measurement results. Hopefully the guy that does your cal will let you look over his shoulder and explain what he's doing. That should shorten the learning time considerably.

I'm fairly confident that the differences between the two are not going to be in different leagues. There might be a slight preference for one or the other, but I doubt it would be game changing. Now that I think of it, when CG brought over his SSP and we compared it to my Denon on the Dynaudios, I didn't hear much difference between them. Your Marantz was the only one that resulted in a clearly audible difference, in the form a some softness.

Maybe for your mortal ears. We'll see how my shiny golden ears hear things

I am a little curious but to be honest not that interested in doing this comparison for now. I am happy with what I have now. It sounds great, has automatic EQ, and even tickles my audiophile buttons being fully balanced and all. Best of all it just works seamlessly.

Maybe when the Classe SSP-900 comes out I'll feel differently.

Good man. There comes a time when you just need to enjoy what you have and it's not like you are running $300 AVR for a prepro. That AVP is a cost no object effort by Denon, and I think they have the talent to compete toe to toe with the audiophile brands when the reins have been let loose.

Hey Roger, just like months ago thanks again for your help. I really appreciate that you sent that link.

Yes, the clicking/popping is constant when TV(not mixed with Tivo show-just loud clicking) is on. If in Tivo menus it stops. I did switch the setting in Tivo from Dolby Digital to Dolby Digital to PCM and that solves it but I get stereo only. A real bummer. I will use the optic cable I guess but it is a real bummer that after years into HDMI there are still so many issues. Not the Classe fault but I went all those years with HDMI 1.0 and finally have my dream machine and still are required to use an optic cable for 5.1 TV. Oh well. I will look into it further and I guess another bitch session with Tivo can't hurt. They should resolve this.

Not to be a cornball but you are really awesome with the help you provide as I have looked back and you are still helping folks when you can. I also appreciate the help you provided when I first got my Classe earlier this year.

Take care-
Rick

Yes, stereo, but just wanted to see if the HDMI would otherwise connect properly, so as to rule out that variable.


It is sad that HDMI cannot be more solid. The original AppleTV wins no prizes in this regard either.


Thanks Rick. Glad to do so if I can.

I did it with the swedish kit "XTZ Room Analyzer" (calibration microphone + software). The leaning curve is quicker compared to REqW because the microphone and the software are already configured. It took me a couple of weeks to fix up everything, but it has been very rewarding in terms of sound improvement. Note that I was a complete newbie in calibration

Ah yes, the XTZ measurement system is another great choice and better for the novice than REW for sure. Glad it worked out for you.

I third that! I just finished re-calibrating my system yesterday, using the XTZ in conjunction with my Velodyne sub's correction software and microphone. The XTZ is pretty straight forward to use, and allows for single and averaged multiple microphone positioning. I have found that the measurements have been fairly consistent, as well. I needed to use one to two filter bands (per channel in the SSP-800), to get the 6 channels calibrated.

I spun a few of my favorite reference tracks after calibrating. And aside from the occasional sub boost of a couple dB, material dependent, I like the way it turned out!

Dave

In the middle of having my system calibrated, and came across an odd configuration issue or bug...curious if I'm missing something obvious...

My left and rights are set as full range - my center crossed over at 60. We fed an Avia full range center channel test tone and did not get any output from the subs. Very odd, as the internal test tones showed everything was connected correctly,

Just before we gave up, I suggested setting the mains to crossed over, and voila, the center channel signal from Avia then correctly crossed over to the subs...tried this on two different source devices, ps3 and samsung blu ray player...turned the mains back to full range, and the ssp didn't bass manage the center channel full range signal despite the center set to crossed in the ssp.

Didn't try with the other crossed speakers, but am I correct in seeing this as wrong? Power cycled the ssp a few times, but could not get the condition to change.

We're still calibrating for another hour or so, so any feedback would be great...

This is just speculation thrang but I thought it may be like the cary 11a/12 with cascading crossovers so the 60hz low pass frequencies from the cc goes to the full range fl/fr [the next lowest frequency capable before the sub];until you change the low pass on those ??

This is how the lexicon mc12 also works iirc. Though if the fronts didnt have any output when full range shoots this theory down

It certainly sounds like this is what it's doing -I'll have to revisit it tomorrow...

I just tried this. I normally have speakers crossed over, so I set the L/R to full range. In both cases, the bass in the center channel found its way to the sub. So I cannot duplicate your result.

For a test signal I am using a DD 5.1 stream encoded, one channel at a time, with LF noise, both in bitstream and PCM. The SSP is running FW 3.0.1.

I am not familiar with the Avia disc. Is it a 2-ch or a 5.1 signal? Is it coming into the SSP as a 5.1 signal (not being downmixed to stereo)? I'm grasping at ghosts...

My understanding is it is a 5.1 disc with discrete tone...we also discovered that the eq for the left rear channel was not functioning - bands and group are activated, but changes do not reflect measurably or audibly...

I'll try the center channel test tone with a different test disc tonight, but I've also emailed classe to see if they have any ideas...

No doubt. Just making sure that the SSP sees it as a 5.1 signal. If it sees stereo, the C test signal will not pass thru the C bass management.


I assume your unit is relatively new and that it is running 3.0.1 code. Can you confirm?

I checked the EQ, and you are correct, the "activate group" button for the left-rear channel only (out of 7.1), does not function. In my case, the EQ remains on all the time, so I never noticed it. The individual "activate band" controls still work within that channel, as does the global "activate EQ" command which controls all the channels (including left-rear).

Could you see if that is the case for you?

I reported this to my contact at Classe as I was emailing on other matters earlier today. I also mentioned your bass management issue.

Hi Roger

Yes, running the latest firmware - 3.01 - I will check what the SSP sees AVIA the signal as. But the test tones otherwise correctly output from the discrete speaker targeted - if it saw it as stereo, I don't think that would occur, correct? (assuming I am on Discrete in the SSP)

The behavior we see the rear left is that all appears to be working in the interface, but there is no change to the measured or audible signal - EQ is on, the group is on, the various bands are on, and you can adjust things - but the output signal remains unaltered.

Thanks - when I spoke to Classe, they've not heard of these issues, but at least you've confirmed one...

Right. So that's not the problem. We're back to "very odd"!


Sort of confirmed. Mine is stuck on, your is stuck off.

Let us know what they come back with.

Well to be clear, I can enable or disable in the OSD, it just doesn't do anything to the signal path for that channel...

Understood. The button looks like it is going on/off, but the audio does not change. Same here.

Maybe it would be worth a shot to try your setup in my unit. If you can run the downloader tool, you can elect to save a backup file. Email it to me and I'll run it.

Came home tonight, and ran my Avia disc (actually rip stored on my media server) - now, I'm not experiencing the center channel issue - the SSP is correctly routing to the subs even if the mains are set to full range

I am looking for my actual disc to see if I can replicate the condition from the PS3 and Samsung BR as experience last night, but I may need to chalk this up to an anomaly (even though we hard powered down the SSP twice during the investigation)

I need to swap HDMI inputs to see if the condition reappears using the PS3 or Samsung inputs, though I doubt this is the issue.

The EQ issues does remain however...