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Official Classe SSP-800 thread. - Page 167

post #4981 of 5782
Quote:
It is interesting I had the system calibrated and paid good money for it and bass is flat but my 800Ds are treated like bookshelf speakers as they are crossed over at 80HZ. Maybe I don't like it flat after all and should just leave the speakers full range and just EQ the subs. What do you think?
Do you have the link for the DSP, I actually subscribe to Stereophile print.

1.  When someone says "I had the system calibrated," how can I know what was actually done?  Aside from the 80Hz crossover (nominally standard for HT), what was done and how?  Can you measure what it is doing?
 

2.  No link yet as website posting occurs about 60days after the print edition.  If you subscribe, you should have the November edition by now.

post #4982 of 5782
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal Rubinson View Post

1.  When someone says "I had the system calibrated," how can I know what was actually done?  Aside from the 80Hz crossover (nominally standard for HT), what was done and how?  Can you measure what it is doing?
 
2.  No link yet as website posting occurs about 60days after the print edition.  If you subscribe, you should have the November edition by now.

So he used the SSP-800 EQ to make the room response flat and level the bass
post #4983 of 5782
Quote:
Originally Posted by wse View Post


So he used the SSP-800 EQ to make the room response flat and level the bass

Easy to say but the devil's in the details.

post #4984 of 5782
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal Rubinson View Post

Easy to say but the devil's in the details.

details Using SSP-800 manual EQ

After measuring distances, adjusting levels, crossover, and setting EQ

- 800Di Front Right Speaker -6.5db, 80Hz
Manual EQ
#1 -6.5db,1,8600Hz
#2 +3.0db,1,3000Hz
#3 -2.5db,2,550Hz
#4 -3.0db,1,151Hz
#5 +3.0db,2,260Hz

-800Di Front Left Speaker -7.0db, , 80Hz
Manual EQ
#1 +3.0db,1,3000Hz
#2 -2.5db,1,8600Hz
#3 -6.0db,3,123Hz
#4 -2.5db,3,600Hz
#5 -2.0db,3,1200Hz

- 802D Front Center -8.0db, 60Hz
Manual EQ
#1 -17.5db,6,60Hz
#2 +1.5db,1,2000Hz
#3 +3.0db,3,2500Hz
#4 -2.5db,3,600Hz
#5 -1.0db,1,8700Hz

- 802D Surround Left -7.5db, 60Hz
Manual EQ
#1 -3.0db,1,8100Hz
#2 +3.0db,1,3000Hz

- 802D Surround Right -8.0db, 60 Hz
Manual EQ
#1 -2.5db,1,8000Hz
#2 +3.0db,3,3000Hz

- In Ceiling Rear Signature 7NT Left -3.0db, 80Hz untouched EQ

- In Ceiling Rear Signature 7NT Right -3.0db, 80Hz untouched EQ

- Subwoofer 0.0db

- Crossover Slope 24db/oct


Subs
Equalization Manual
#2 -29.0db,9,60Hz
#3 -23.5db,6,30Hz
#4 +3.0db,2,50Hz

JL Subwoofer 1
Polarity 0 deg
Level 9 O'Clock
LP Filter 0db
elf 0
Phase 0 deg

Rear JL Subwoofer 2
Level 10 O'Clock
LP Filter Off
Polarity 0 deg
Phase 12 O'Clock
elf -5
Edited by wse - 10/30/12 at 10:30am
post #4985 of 5782

Well, I don't know how these were determined and that is what I really was asking about.  Nonetheless, I think the setup is questionable.

 

It seems the tech assumed that the 80Hz crossover meant that sub-80Hz correction was not important for the main channels.  However, I note that the sub has major (>20dB) cuts at 30 and 60Hz straddling a minor bump (+3dB) at 50Hz.  Along with this, I see only a minor (+3dB) bump at 60Hz in the FR and a major (-17.5dB) cut at 60Hz in the FC.   All that suggests a major room mode at 60Hz with likely modal activity below despite the lack of any low bass correction in the FL and nothing below 60Hz in FR or FC or, indeed, in any of the surround channels.  

 

IMHO (and I mean that), getting the sub-250Hz response balanced is more important than anything one does above since room effects are statistical above that "cricital" frequency.  I would use up most of the filters on all the channels down there.

 

(Also, why are the SR and SL crossed at 60Hz unlike the rest?)

post #4986 of 5782
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal Rubinson View Post

Well, I don't know how these were determined and that is what I really was asking about.  Nonetheless, I think the setup is questionable.

It seems the tech assumed that the 80Hz crossover meant that sub-80Hz correction was not important for the main channels.  However, I note that the sub has major (>20dB) cuts at 30 and 60Hz straddling a minor bump (+3dB) at 50Hz.  Along with this, I see only a minor (+3dB) bump at 60Hz in the FR and a major (-17.5dB) cut at 60Hz in the FC.   All that suggests a major room mode at 60Hz with likely modal activity below despite the lack of any low bass correction in the FL and nothing below 60Hz in FR or FC or, indeed, in any of the surround channels.  

IMHO (and I mean that), getting the sub-250Hz response balanced is more important than anything one does above since room effects are statistical above that "cricital" frequency.  I would use up most of the filters on all the channels down there.

(Also, why are the SR and SL crossed at 60Hz unlike the rest?)

Using software RTA so should I forget this set up my speakers to large and just do sub ARO check and forget about it. Yes, I feel the speakers are not performing the way they should
post #4987 of 5782
Quote:
Originally Posted by wse View Post


Using software RTA so should I forget this set up my speakers to large and just do sub ARO check and forget about it. Yes, I feel the speakers are not performing the way they should

Sorry to say but I have a bias against relying on RTA only for EQ below the critical frequency.  ARO is no big deal, either, as it is only a single band PEQ.  OTOH, I would defintiely not use it now because it will conflict with the sub EQ settings in the SSP800.  

 

You can make ad hoc changes in the SSP since you have a record of the current settings to which you can revert.  I suggest that you either begin learning about roomEQ and get a decent acoustical measurement tool set (and learn how to use it) OR start looking for a really qualified technician with some high tech weapons and a good ear.

post #4988 of 5782
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal Rubinson View Post

 I suggest that you either begin learning about roomEQ and get a decent acoustical measurement tool set (and learn how to use it) OR start looking for a really qualified technician with some high tech weapons and a good ear.

I totally concur with Kal: Room EQ or it's not-free cousins (XTZ or OmniMic) are, in my opinion, MANDATORY to get anywhere near the optimum results out of your HT system. Forget anything that uses an RS Meter or adjusting by ear.

Or as Kal suggests, find a truly qualified acoustician to assist.
post #4989 of 5782
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal Rubinson View Post

Sorry to say but I have a bias against relying on RTA only for EQ below the critical frequency.  ARO is no big deal, either, as it is only a single band PEQ.  OTOH, I would defintiely not use it now because it will conflict with the sub EQ settings in the SSP800.   You can make ad hoc changes in the SSP since you have a record of the current settings to which you can revert.  I suggest that you either begin learning about roomEQ and get a decent acoustical measurement tool set (and learn how to use it) OR start looking for a really qualified technician with some high tech weapons and a good ear.

Ok so what software do you suggest and in addition this guy was ISF and THX Certified Home Theater Technician Level II certified frown.gif So who can you trust eek.gif

Also can you pm me any good qualified person that is not asking for a first born!!
post #4990 of 5782
Quote:
Originally Posted by audioguy View Post

I totally concur with Kal: Room EQ or it's not-free cousins (XTZ or OmniMic) are, in my opinion, MANDATORY to get anywhere near the optimum results out of your HT system. Forget anything that uses an RS Meter or adjusting by ear. Or as Kal suggests, find a truly qualified acoustician to assist.

Cool theater you have
post #4991 of 5782
Quote:
Originally Posted by wse View Post

Cool theater you have

Thank you. I truly appreciate the comment. It would not sound like it does without OmniMic
post #4992 of 5782
Quote:
Originally Posted by wse View Post


Ok so what software do you suggest and in addition this guy was ISF and THX Certified Home Theater Technician Level II certified frown.gif So who can you trust eek.gif
Also can you pm me any good qualified person that is not asking for a first born!!

As has already been suggested, XTZ and Omnimic.  I can also add REW freeware but you have to add the hardware to make it work.

 

As for a recommendation, I cannot help as I have not really ever looked into this but I think there are some threads on AVS about this.

post #4993 of 5782
post #4994 of 5782
Greetings Kal
Want to update latest firmware classe ssp 800. I have CT ssp build date 2010..
Spoke w/ carl @ classe tech support... suggested i remove cover on unit then count DSP..
Not a viable option given my setup.. Any suggestions ?
post #4995 of 5782
Appreciate feedback regarding DSP from anyone & thanks n advance
post #4996 of 5782
Quote:
Originally Posted by zolasson View Post

Greetings Kal
Want to update latest firmware classe ssp 800. I have CT ssp build date 2010..
Spoke w/ carl @ classe tech support... suggested i remove cover on unit then count DSP..
Not a viable option given my setup.. Any suggestions ?

Nope.

post #4997 of 5782
Quote:
Originally Posted by zolasson View Post

Appreciate feedback regarding DSP from anyone & thanks n advance
Why would you need to count the DSPs? To figure out which version of firmware to use? If so, just check your current version.
>Menu
>Status
>Version
firmware version?
If you see 2.0.x, load 2.0.6
If you see 3.0.x, load 3.0.2

I suspect you need 2.0.6 because all units shipped in 2010 had dual DSP and HDMI 1.3.

The new HDMI 1.4 boards shipped in 2011. Those use the series 3.0.x firmware.
Edited by Roger Dressler - 11/10/12 at 7:02pm
post #4998 of 5782
Checked version per suggestion.. 2.0.2.. will update 2.0.6
Thanks Roger for your tireless commitment to this forum
post #4999 of 5782
Quote:
Originally Posted by wadeh911 View Post

You are right, regardless of whether file is 44.1 kHz from CD-originated or whether file is 96 kHz or 192 kHz the output from the Apple TV gen3 is shown as 48 kHz digital PCM. I just double checked to make sure when I converted the 192/24 or 96/24 FLAC file using dBPoweramp Music Converter that my Bit Depth and Sample Rate are set to "As Source".
My hunt for a ethernet device with an intuitive and simple interface and straight pass thru on audio is on! Amazing advice Roger. Thank you.

Purchased a Mica EP600 G2 Digital Media Player to listen to the downloaded FLAC files from HDTracks and B&WSociety. Audio to SSP-800 over HDMI. Classe display shows proper bit depth and sample rate. Rather than sourcing downloads from my server via ethernet, connected 1TB external SATA to EP600G2 and set up copy of my HD Libraries. Wanted to thank Forum along with Roger for good advice on using SSP-800 as DAC for my lossless music rather than purchasing another outboard DAC. Wondering if anyone else is using the Micca EP600G2 for their HD downloads to the SSP-800?

I have resisted subscribing to Stereophile for years. Finally gave in and became a paying Stereophile customer after reading the many comments Kal has posted on AVSforum. Noticed the DAC capabilities of the SSP-800 received no mention in the component ratings by Stereophile, it did not even appear there as a preamplifier, and they did not include a processor section at all. Kal has the SSP-800 become an orphan?
post #5000 of 5782

No processor listings = editorial decision, not mine.

Recommended Components listings are prepared by in-house staff.
 

post #5001 of 5782
Quote:
Originally Posted by zolasson View Post

Checked version per suggestion.. 2.0.2.. will update 2.0.6
Thanks Roger for your tireless commitment to this forum
You're very kind. redface.gif I hope the update goes well. It will take a couple of restarts as the DSP code is also being revised. There were lots of changes between 2.0.2 and 2.0.6.
post #5002 of 5782
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Dressler View Post

Why would you need to count the DSPs? To figure out which version of firmware to use? If so, just check your current version.
>Menu
>Status
>Version
firmware version? The new HDMI 1.4 boards shipped in 2011. Those use the series 3.0.x firmware.

Any news on the possibility to see DDIIz I would love to do 9.2 channels with front width biggrin.gif
post #5003 of 5782
It doesn't have enough outputs for 9.2 (only 10 in total), but it does have enough for 9.1 so I'm also hoping for DDIIz in the future.
post #5004 of 5782
Quote:
Originally Posted by urskog View Post

It doesn't have enough outputs for 9.2 (only 10 in total), but it does have enough for 9.1 so I'm also hoping for DDIIz in the future.

I know I am using a Y XLR for my two subs it works great so I can make a 9.2
post #5005 of 5782
Quote:
Originally Posted by wse View Post

Any news on the possibility to see DDIIz I would love to do 9.2 channels with front width biggrin.gif
PLIIz cannot create width outputs, only height. But I would not expect it. If it was going to happen, it would have come with Dolby Volume. IMHO.

If your surrounds are at 80-90 degrees from front, and you use PLIIx, you will get a lot of imaging at 60 degrees, where the wide speakers would have been. Where are your surrounds located?
post #5006 of 5782
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Dressler View Post

PLIIz cannot create width outputs, only height. But I would not expect it. If it was going to happen, it would have come with Dolby Volume. IMHO. If your surrounds are at 80-90 degrees from front, and you use PLIIx, you will get a lot of imaging at 60 degrees, where the wide speakers would have been. Where are your surrounds located?

Oh that is too bad frown.gif

I guess I will have to wait until Classé upgrade maybe in a few years, hopefully they will include ATMOS and MDA then it will be worth it my 802Ds are at 100 degree
post #5007 of 5782
Quote:
Originally Posted by wse View Post

my 802Ds are at 100 degree
Just for fun, can you either slide your seat back, or move the speakers forward, so they are directly to your sides? Then give a listen in PLIIx Music.
post #5008 of 5782
Will try that and report back, PL IIx music for movies ? I always listen in DTS master audio!
post #5009 of 5782
Quote:
Originally Posted by wse View Post

Will try that and report back, PL IIx music for movies ? I always listen in DTS master audio!
No, I was referring to music. The "wide" phantom imaging happens with 2-ch music and PLIIx. For movies, you'll still get a benefit in immersion by shifting the side speakers/seats, so it's still worth a try. In that case, 5.1 sources still need PLIIx processing to fill out the rear speakers. In the case of 5.1, the difference between PLIIx Music and Movie is very subtle, only really showing itself when the Ls/Rs of the source 5.1 is mostly mono.
post #5010 of 5782
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Dressler View Post

No, I was referring to music. The "wide" phantom imaging happens with 2-ch music and PLIIx. For movies, you'll still get a benefit in immersion by shifting the side speakers/seats, so it's still worth a try. In that case, 5.1 sources still need PLIIx processing to fill out the rear speakers. In the case of 5.1, the difference between PLIIx Music and Movie is very subtle, only really showing itself when the Ls/Rs of the source 5.1 is mostly mono.

I will give it a try and see what happens
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