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Official Classe SSP-800 thread. - Page 183

post #5461 of 5782
Quote:
Originally Posted by wse View Post

Owners of the SSP-800 I am curious as to your findings and explanation. First of all Happy Memorial Day thank you to all those soldiers who keep our country safe!

So, here is my conundrum, I have been playing with calibration today, Since we added a new built in giant Cherry wood book case and a new av custom made rack made of solid Bubinga and Cherry . I used the following to set up the levels for each speakers!

- Internal SSP-800 pink noise
- AIX Calibration Blu ray disc
- THX Calibration Blu ray disc

None of them match? I calibrated first using the SSP-800 using pink noise. Calibrated all speakers to 75 db.

Then I try the discs and all the levels are different and even worst, all the speakers are at different levels!!!

What's going on? Any help would be appreciated, I don't know who to trust!


I will tell you the same thing I was told years ago by an ex girlfriend. "Don't over analyze the relationship"! Why did you need to change calibration after the bookcase? Did you change the distance in your listening position and the speakers? Is there an acoustical obstruction in your room now?
post #5462 of 5782
^^ First off, while the SSP and THX noises should be in the same general ballpark regarding overall loudness (75 dB for the disc when you set Volume to 0 dB), the AIX disc is some 10 dB louder (85 dB). For that, either set the volume lower, or just don't use it.

On top of that, all these different noise sources have different spectra. THX the narrowest, SSP a little wider and deeper, and AIX is wideband. Any response differences will appear as level differences.

Try setting the SPL meter to A-wtg (slow). That will ignore some irregularities in the bass that can affect the readings.

Then, point the meter at each speaker, with the mic right at the listening position. You have to move around as the noise changes channels.

See if that helps.
post #5463 of 5782
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Dressler View Post

^^ First off, while the SSP and THX noises should be in the same general ballpark regarding overall loudness (75 dB for the disc when you set Volume to 0 dB), the AIX disc is some 10 dB louder (85 dB). For that, either set the volume lower, or just don't use it. On top of that, all these different noise sources have different spectra. THX the narrowest, SSP a little wider and deeper, and AIX is wideband. Any response differences will appear as level differences. Try setting the SPL meter to A-wtg (slow). That will ignore some irregularities in the bass that can affect the readings.

Then, point the meter at each speaker, with the mic right at the listening position. You have to move around as the noise changes channels.

See if that helps.

Muchas gracias I sent you a PM
post #5464 of 5782
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Dressler View Post

I may have confused things by mentioning bass management for SACD/DVD-A via PCM over HDMI. I understand that is of little to no interest for your setup.

If you desire all m/c "PCM" sources to play via SSP's analog bypass, yes you must activate the bass management in the player. Then when you bitstream BDs, the SSP will take care of the bass management. You can leave "source direct" turned off, as it has no effect on bitstreaming. No need to fiddle with the player settings. Do I have that right?

Thanks Roger, this is what I was hoping to accomplish, that is not having to mess with the players setup menu. Actually I have been leaving "Source Direct" on even though the manual says that the setting of "Off" enables the speaker and subwoofer settings, but it also goes on to say "when set to on with either 50 or 100kHz all speaker sizes are set to “large” and “yes” is set for the subwoofer also “Channel Level” and “Distance” settings are available". This is the part to me that is contradictory. I also don't mute the HDMI and just leave it set to "Auto" and everything seems to sound fine and this way I don't have to fool with the A1's setup menu. I mostly use the HDMI connection into the SSP-800 for multi-channel anyway with the exception of the occasional m/c sacd.
post #5465 of 5782
My version info for my unit which is a dual DSP HDMI 1.3, reads 2.0.6 build 0087, do I have the latest firmware? I am thinking about purchasing another universal bluray player and have narrowed it down between the Oppo 105 and the Marantz UD7007. One thing I want to be sure of when it comes to the Marantz player is that it doesn't have the SACD DSD audio resolution deficiency that my current player (Denon A1UDCI) has when playing thru the HDMI connector to my SSP-800, especially since the Marantz player does not have multichannel analog outputs. When I was checking the specs of this unit on the Marantz website it does state, it is capable of DSD from SACD via HDMI, does that mean I would not have that SACD audio resolution deficiency that I currently have with my A1 with the SSP-800?
post #5466 of 5782
According to http://www.classeaudio.com/downloads/Downloads.htm?Path=/OPERATING_SOFTWARE/SSP-800 you have the latest firmware for your version.
post #5467 of 5782
Quote:
Originally Posted by mt14942 View Post

My version info for my unit which is a dual DSP HDMI 1.3, reads 2.0.6 build 0087, do I have the latest firmware? I am thinking about purchasing another universal bluray player and have narrowed it down between the Oppo 105 and the Marantz UD7007. One thing I want to be sure of when it comes to the Marantz player is that it doesn't have the SACD DSD audio resolution deficiency that my current player (Denon A1UDCI) has when playing thru the HDMI connector to my SSP-800, especially since the Marantz player does not have multichannel analog outputs. When I was checking the specs of this unit on the Marantz website it does state, it is capable of DSD from SACD via HDMI, does that mean I would not have that SACD audio resolution deficiency that I currently have with my A1 with the SSP-800?

The SSP-800 does not decode DSD. You would have to have the player(source) decode the DSD stream, and send a PCM signal to the SSP-800.
post #5468 of 5782
Quote:
Originally Posted by mt14942 View Post

My version info for my unit which is a dual DSP HDMI 1.3, reads 2.0.6 build 0087, do I have the latest firmware? I am thinking about purchasing another universal bluray player and have narrowed it down between the Oppo 105 and the Marantz UD7007. One thing I want to be sure of when it comes to the Marantz player is that it doesn't have the SACD DSD audio resolution deficiency that my current player (Denon A1UDCI) has when playing thru the HDMI connector to my SSP-800, especially since the Marantz player does not have multichannel analog outputs. When I was checking the specs of this unit on the Marantz website it does state, it is capable of DSD from SACD via HDMI, does that mean I would not have that SACD audio resolution deficiency that I currently have with my A1 with the SSP-800?

Thanks, It had been awhile since I did a firmware update and wasn't sure. I guess could have went to their website and confirmed that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by buttecreeker View Post

The SSP-800 does not decode DSD. You would have to have the player(source) decode the DSD stream, and send a PCM signal to the SSP-800.

Since it does state on the Marantz website that it is capable of DSD from SACD via HDMI I take that to mean the player, as you put it, would decode the DSD stream and send a PCM signal to the SSP-800. I did call Marantz customer service and they also confirmed this. I know there earlier players did not do this. I also asked the person I spoke with about how the 2-channel audio via the balanced analog outputs of the UD-7007 would compare with my Current Denon A1UDCI player and he was honest and said that my A1 was comparable to the Marantz high end Universal bluray player the UD-9004 with a few minor differences and did not think that it would sound as good. So now I am leaning towards maybe just getting the Oppo 103 and use it for bluray and streaming and just use my A1 for music disc's.
post #5469 of 5782
Quote:
Originally Posted by mt14942 View Post


Since it does state on the Marantz website that it is capable of DSD from SACD via HDMI I take that to mean the player, as you put it, would decode the DSD stream and send a PCM signal to the SSP-800. I did call Marantz customer service and they also confirmed this. I know there earlier players did not do this. I also asked the person I spoke with about how the 2-channel audio via the balanced analog outputs of the UD-7007 would compare with my Current Denon A1UDCI player and he was honest and said that my A1 was comparable to the Marantz high end Universal bluray player the UD-9004 with a few minor differences and did not think that it would sound as good. So now I am leaning towards maybe just getting the Oppo 103 and use it for bluray and streaming and just use my A1 for music disc's.

I am thinking of upgrading from my 83SE, to the 103 myself (mainly due to the 3D and streaming capabilities). I am pretty happy with my McIntosh for two channel CD DVD-A listening. As for SACD/DVD-A multi-channel listening, I bitstream from the 83SE to the 800, via HDMI. For my room, I seem to prefer to utilize the PEQ and bass mngmnt features of the 800, as apposed to multi-channel analogs outs, and not being able to use the PEQ's. Just my preference.
post #5470 of 5782
Quote:
Originally Posted by buttecreeker View Post

I am thinking of upgrading from my 83SE, to the 103 myself (mainly due to the 3D and streaming capabilities). I am pretty happy with my McIntosh for two channel CD DVD-A listening. As for SACD/DVD-A multi-channel listening, I bitstream from the 83SE to the 800, via HDMI. For my room, I seem to prefer to utilize the PEQ and bass mngmnt features of the 800, as apposed to multi-channel analogs outs, and not being able to use the PEQ's. Just my preference.

I am basically going the HDMI route from my Denon A1UDCI to the Classe SSP-800 for bluray and m/c DVD-A and SACD utilizing the 800's DACS and speaker/bass management. Unfortunately I don't utilize the PEQ but maybe some day I will delve into that or have a qualified audio calibrator do it. I have tried 2-channel CD, SACD, & DDV-A with HDMI and although it sounds good I prefer the Analog route. They are closing all the Blockbuster's near me so I need a player that can stream even though I will be sacrificing the higher resolution audio that most bluray disc's provide.
post #5471 of 5782
Quote:
Originally Posted by mt14942 View Post

... They are closing all the Blockbuster's near me so I need a player that can stream even though I will be sacrificing the higher resolution audio that most bluray disc's provide.

Sorry to hear that. Hopefully your in an area where your internet connectivity, for streaming, is of a decent speed and without data caps. We happen to be in a very rural area, and our internet is line of sight antennas (Digital Path), and the speeds average 2-3mbps at best. Although it is much better than Hughes Net(satellite), and much less costly and without data caps. My wife puts up with the poor quality from streaming from Netflix, while I still subscribe to Bluray's, etc., from Netflix. Streamings poor sound quality, as well as the constant buffering, drives me nuts!
post #5472 of 5782
Quote:
Originally Posted by buttecreeker View Post...........Netflix, while I still subscribe to Bluray's, etc., from Netflix. Streamings poor sound quality, as well as the constant buffering, drives me nuts!

I can't watch Netflix streaming on a 10 foot wide screen it is horrible!  So I just get Blu Ray from Netflix and buy the good ones when they are under $10

post #5473 of 5782
Quote:
Originally Posted by wse View Post

I can't watch Netflix streaming on a 10 foot wide screen it is horrible!  So I just get Blu Ray from Netflix and buy the good ones when they are under $10

I'm with you. My wife streams to our bedroom tv. She doesn't mind the lack of video quality for her tv shows. I certainly don't like it on our 92" downstairs.
post #5474 of 5782
Quote:
Originally Posted by buttecreeker View Post

Sorry to hear that. Hopefully your in an area where your internet connectivity, for streaming, is of a decent speed and without data caps. We happen to be in a very rural area, and our internet is line of sight antennas (Digital Path), and the speeds average 2-3mbps at best. Although it is much better than Hughes Net(satellite), and much less costly and without data caps. My wife puts up with the poor quality from streaming from Netflix, while I still subscribe to Bluray's, etc., from Netflix. Streamings poor sound quality, as well as the constant buffering, drives me nuts!

I am familiar with where you live. I was drafted right out of high school and stationed from 1966 to 1969 in a very small town in Northern California called Herlong which was near another slightly larger town called Susanville. If you don't recognize any of those towns it was around 50 miles from Reno Nevada. Myself and some of my buddies would go to Chico as I wound up dating a girl who went to Chico State college which I believe was an all girl's college at the time. I remember many scary drives over Donner Pass in the snow to get there.
post #5475 of 5782
Quote:
Originally Posted by mt14942 View Post

I am familiar with where you live. I was drafted right out of high school and stationed from 1966 to 1969 in a very small town in Northern California called Herlong which was near another slightly larger town called Susanville. If you don't recognize any of those towns it was around 50 miles from Reno Nevada. Myself and some of my buddies would go to Chico as I wound up dating a girl who went to Chico State college which I believe was an all girl's college at the time. I remember many scary drives over Donner Pass in the snow to get there.

I am familiar with Susanville, but not Herlong. I'll have to look that one up. We are east of Chico in the Butte Creek Canyon. One road in, and no cable. Cel service is marginal, at best. Peaceful on the river, though. I'm o.k. with the lack of internet connectivity, but my wife would like it to be better.
post #5476 of 5782
So quiet of late on the forum ....would appreciate some input from members on a blu ray player purchase :
Sold off my Oppo BDP83SE Nuforce via my dealer .
Prior to purchasing a BDP105 ( I would buy a 105 irrespective of the fact that I do not use the dacs purely because of the better inherent build quality - not that Oppo build quality overall is that great ) ., my dealer lent me a new Marantz UD7007 .
The build quality is stunning , the purpose made drawer is smooth and quiet rather than the clanking Oppo drawer and above all -
sound via HDMI is far , far superior to my ex BDP83 and picture is just outstanding - better by far in all respects .

One issue - I plan to purchase the new Sony 65" 4k LED within the next month or three soonest available here - the Oppo has 4k upscaling , whereas the Marantz does not.

If I purchase the Marantz , is it correct that 1080P and I content fed through the Classe will then be upscaled to 4k by the Sony ?

Using the Oppo to upscale to 4k , the Classe will not allow the upscaled content to be passed and would have to in this instance run upscaled 4 k video direct to the Sony and audio separately via HDMI to the Classe .

Either way then whether the Marantz does not have 4k upscaling and the Oppo has , via the Classe , the upscaling has to be done in the TV ??

For my money if this the case , the Marantz therefore is the way to go as the Oppo here is being sold at double the US price(US$2,000) by the importer , whilst the Marantz is at par for what I believe is a superior sounding unit optimised for HDMI .

In any event some input from the wise and knowledgable forum members would be much appreciated.
post #5477 of 5782
dont waste your time with 4K upscaling. if using a 4k display it will by its very nature upscale to 4K whatever you send it. You do not need 4k upscaling in a player. repeat to yourself ....you do not need 4K upscaling in your player biggrin.gif

buy the marantz and be happy. look forward to your feedback on the ud7007 very interested in hearing how you find it. is there a thread about it ? certainly looks like a nice piece smile.gif
post #5478 of 5782
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alsof1 View Post

So quiet of late on the forum ....would appreciate some input from members on a blu ray player purchase :
Sold off my Oppo BDP83SE Nuforce via my dealer .
Prior to purchasing a BDP105 ( I would buy a 105 irrespective of the fact that I do not use the dacs purely because of the better inherent build quality - not that Oppo build quality overall is that great ) ., my dealer lent me a new Marantz UD7007 .
The build quality is stunning , the purpose made drawer is smooth and quiet rather than the clanking Oppo drawer and above all -
sound via HDMI is far , far superior to my ex BDP83 and picture is just outstanding - better by far in all respects .

One issue - I plan to purchase the new Sony 65" 4k LED within the next month or three soonest available here - the Oppo has 4k upscaling , whereas the Marantz does not.

If I purchase the Marantz , is it correct that 1080P and I content fed through the Classe will then be upscaled to 4k by the Sony ?

Using the Oppo to upscale to 4k , the Classe will not allow the upscaled content to be passed and would have to in this instance run upscaled 4 k video direct to the Sony and audio separately via HDMI to the Classe .

Either way then whether the Marantz does not have 4k upscaling and the Oppo has , via the Classe , the upscaling has to be done in the TV ??

For my money if this the case , the Marantz therefore is the way to go as the Oppo here is being sold at double the US price(US$2,000) by the importer , whilst the Marantz is at par for what I believe is a superior sounding unit optimised for HDMI .

In any event some input from the wise and knowledgable forum members would be much appreciated.

I am also considering the Marantz UD7007 player, but I haven't been able to find much feedback or reviews on it. I looked it up on the Marantz web-site and couldn't find what DACS they are using for the 2-channel balanced analog outputs and I was wondering about that? I also haven't been able to find a forum for this unit. I too would be curious of what you think of the player when you get it.
Edited by mt14942 - 6/26/13 at 5:28am
post #5479 of 5782
When the UD7007 outputs SACD as PCM, what is the sample rate? How does it sound compared with Oppo's 88.2 kHz conversion?

I'm a little surprised that Marantz HDMI sounds so much better/different, since the SSP has good jitter rejection. I play SACDs via PCM and the BDP-93 sounds superb.
post #5480 of 5782
Quote:
Originally Posted by alebonau View Post

dont waste your time with 4K upscaling. if using a 4k display it will by its very nature upscale to 4K whatever you send it. You do not need 4k upscaling in a player. repeat to yourself ....you do not need 4K upscaling in your player biggrin.gif

buy the marantz and be happy. look forward to your feedback on the ud7007 very interested in hearing how you find it. is there a thread about it ? certainly looks like a nice piece smile.gif

Bought the Marantz and I be a happy chappy !! It certainly is a nice piece and sounds and looks exceptional in terms of picture .
Agreed , upscaling will be done on the TV..I am only using this with HDMI for Blu Ray .
For stereo CD listening I use my Levinson No 37 , or of late , I have my complete CD collection on my Mac and stream via my Apple TV - works well,sounds good and is so convenient !
I cannot therefore comment on the units Dacs ..
Seen a 5* review on a British mag called What HiFi...I have just set it up and have as yet not played around with it .
post #5481 of 5782
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Dressler View Post

When the UD7007 outputs SACD as PCM, what is the sample rate? How does it sound compared with Oppo's 88.2 kHz conversion?

I'm a little surprised that Marantz HDMI sounds so much better/different, since the SSP has good jitter rejection. I play SACDs via PCM and the BDP-93 sounds superb.


Roger , certainly compared to my ex Oppo BDP83 , the Marantz via HDMI has a much fuller and is very( and more ) detailed . The Oppo had a thinner and drier sound - just the way I hear it .
post #5482 of 5782
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alsof1 View Post

Roger , certainly compared to my ex Oppo BDP83 , the Marantz via HDMI has a much fuller and is very( and more ) detailed . The Oppo had a thinner and drier sound - just the way I hear it .

I was under the impression that if using the HDMI (digital connection) that it's the SSP-800's dacs that you are hearing and that the source player is not involved other than functioning as a transport. I did not think that the Oppo or Marantz player had any affect on the sound quality.
post #5483 of 5782
Correct , however you do get transports and transports I believe .......My Levinson No 37 transport for example is pretty much at the top of the pile as transports go , however I once had the opportunity of connecting a reference MLNo 31.5 transport at more than 3/4x the price in my system - a huge, huge difference .
My opinion is therefore that yes , there should be and there is difference in transports in what they sound like and in practice they do differ from one another .
Luckily in this instance the Marantz certainly delivers the goods
post #5484 of 5782
Quote:
Originally Posted by mt14942 View Post


I was under the impression that if using the HDMI (digital connection) that it's the SSP-800's dacs that you are hearing and that the source player is not involved other than functioning as a transport. I did not think that the Oppo or Marantz player had any affect on the sound quality.

Not quite.  That assumes that the transports are putting out the same signals.  The Oppos output 88.2kHz from SACDs while other players, like the Sony XA-5400ES, will output 176.4kHz if the prepro will accept it.  Not a fair comparison on the technical level.

post #5485 of 5782

Too bad Marantz doesn't have DACs for computer use!

post #5486 of 5782
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal Rubinson View PostNot quite.  That assumes that the transports are putting out the same signals.  The Oppos output 88.2kHz from SACDs while other players, like the Sony XA-5400ES, will output 176.4kHz if the prepro will accept it.  Not a fair comparison on the technical level.

Does this means the Sony will sound better?

 

Not according to this!  http://lavryengineering.com/pdfs/lavry-sampling-theory.pdf

 

 

"Conclusion:

There is an inescapable tradeoff between faster sampling on one hand and a loss of accuracy,  increased data size and much additional processing requirement on the other hand.  AD converter designers can not generate 20 bits at MHz speeds, yet they often utilize a circuit  yielding a few bits at MHz speeds as a step towards making many bits at lower speeds. 

 

The compromise between speed and accuracy is a permanent engineering and scientific reality. 

 

Sampling audio signals at 192KHz is about 3 times faster than the optimal rate.  It compromises the accuracy which ends up as audio distortions.  While there is no up side to operation at excessive speeds, there are further disadvantages: 

 

1. The increased speed causes larger amount of data (impacting data storage and data  transmission speed requirements). 

 

2. Operating at 192KHz causes a very significant increase in the required processing  power, resulting in very costly gear and/or further compromise in audio quality. The optimal sample rate should be largely based on the required signal bandwidth.

 

Audio industry salesman have been promoting faster than optimal rates. The promotion of such ideas  is based on the fallacy that faster rates yield more accuracy and/or more detail. Weather  motivated by profit or ignorance, the promoters, leading the industry in the wrong direction, are stating the opposite of what is true."

post #5487 of 5782
Quote:
Originally Posted by wse View Post

Does this means the Sony will sound better?

 

Not according to this!  http://lavryengineering.com/pdfs/lavry-sampling-theory.pdf

I know that argument and it is not universally accepted.  However, I did not say that the higher output sample rate will sound better, only that it is a factor that complicates a direct comparison as it introduces another variable.

post #5488 of 5782
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alsof1 View Post

Roger , certainly compared to my ex Oppo BDP83 , the Marantz via HDMI has a much fuller and is very( and more ) detailed . The Oppo had a thinner and drier sound - just the way I hear it .
Thanks for the reply. When you are playing SACD on Marantz into the SP-800, what does the status screen report for sample rate?

And just to confirm, the sonic benefits of Marantz's HDMI also occur when bitstreaming TrueHD or DTS HD MA, not just SAC/PCM, correct?
Edited by Roger Dressler - 6/26/13 at 11:49pm
post #5489 of 5782
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal Rubinson View Post

Not quite.  That assumes that the transports are putting out the same signals.  The Oppos output 88.2kHz from SACDs while other players, like the Sony XA-5400ES, will output 176.4kHz if the prepro will accept it.  Not a fair comparison on the technical level.

That makes sense, I didn't take into consideration the signal output from the transport. That should have dawned on me as that is one of the drawbacks of my Denon A1UDCI Universal player when it comes to SACD as it is outputting 44kHz as compared to the Oppo at 88.2 kHz. Does the Marantz player output at 88.2 kHz?
post #5490 of 5782

When do you think we will see a Classé SSP-800 next generation?

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