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Samsung 2008 plasma? - Page 6

post #151 of 263
4/1/08 at 1:53pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by cjre1 View Post

Don't be jealous because you cant afford the KURO line. To answer your question: "So, if Pioneer was all that why can't they sell enough plasmas?", Because most people can not afford their high end Plasma's or they simply, don't know enought about a Plasma and what features they are buying to justify the cost of these TV's. Most people do not understand the concept of a high end awesome PQ TV that can be calibrated to no end.

Umm, at the time when I purchased my Sammy, I could afford the Pioneer. That was my original choice. I then saw the Sammy next to it and the rest is history. It had a better overall picture.
The Pioneer prices while high aren't prohibitively so. They're just are not as great as hyped.
Enjoy your Pioneer though I suspect you are wondering if you spent more for a TV that can't match Samsung's natural 3D picture quality.
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post #152 of 263
4/1/08 at 2:01pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by discopaul View Post

Umm, at the time when I purchased my Sammy, I could afford the Pioneer. That was my original choice. I then saw the Sammy next to it and the rest is history. It had a better overall picture.
The Pioneer prices while high aren't prohibitively so. They're just are not as great as hyped.
Enjoy your Pioneer though I suspect you are wondering if you spent more for a TV that can't match Samsung's natural 3D picture quality.

You must have been looking at some wacked out kuro. Even though I own the 5884 i will tell you it is nowhere close to the pioneer 150fd.
My point from earlier is if you can get the pio for just a little more then get it if YOU want it. If you dont really want it then dont buy it.
I was in the same boat, could not really afford one but in the last 2 months they have come down in price alot. With that being the case they are getting a little more affordable. Until the new ones come out.
Biggest problem with the new samsungs is not the black level or pq. It is the fact for me of the no support for 24f. My eyes are sensitive to judder. If you are sensitive too or it just plain bothers you to see stuff jerking across the screen then the sammy not be right for you.
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post #153 of 263
4/1/08 at 3:49pm
OK pioneer fanboys, it may be hard to swallow but some people actually like other TVs other than kuro. I will say when I bought my Sammy, kuro was not out yet. That said, I have seen kuros lots of times next to Sammy and other brands and I was unimpressed given the hype.
My reaction should not be a big surprise because the market clearly shows people were not buying kuros in the desired quantity. Some may have been due to price but not all of them for that reason. The kuros tended to be darker, and I still preferred the detail and the color rendition better on the Sammy.
I'm still fascinated by this cult like reaction to people aren't kuro lovers. You all are quick to offer excuse like, you don't have the money, the feed was bad, the settings were off, blah blah blah.
So PDF and pioneer fanboys, what chya gonna do in '09? Anyway, go check out the new Sammies. It will deprogram the kuro hypnosis.
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post #154 of 263
4/1/08 at 4:08pm
Is this thread call Pio vs Sammy??? perhaps I'm in the wrong place...cheers!
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post #155 of 263
4/1/08 at 4:13pm
I sense a lot of fear from the pioneer fanboys. There's a point call diminishing returns.

If set A costs 50% more than set B, then set A should return about 50% greater improvement than set B, if it doesn't, it's not worth it.

A 50" Sammy plasma costs $2300. a 50" Kuro costs $5k. That's a 100% increase.

Does a Kuro give a 100% better picture quality than a Sammy? On technology alone and from what I've seen, not even.
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post #156 of 263
4/2/08 at 4:52am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tideas View Post

A 50" Sammy plasma costs $2300. a 50" Kuro costs $5k. That's a 100% increase.

really? i paid ~ $2K for my 50" Kuro.
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post #157 of 263
4/2/08 at 5:32am
don't worry... statitically Pioneer Fanboys have a better eduction than any other Plasma lovers out there. I am not a fanboy yet... but will be if the new Samsungs for 2008 are a flop.

Quote:
Originally Posted by G-star View Post

really? i paid ~ $2K for my 50" Kuro.
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post #158 of 263
4/2/08 at 8:22am
Quote:
Originally Posted by G-star View Post

really? i paid ~ $2K for my 50" Kuro.

the 720p one? *laughs*
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post #159 of 263
4/2/08 at 8:26am
lol.... you mean 768P.

I am going to start off with 1080P myself.

I am open minded and will buy what ever has the best bang for the buck and good color accuracy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tideas View Post

the 720p one? *laughs*
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post #160 of 263
4/2/08 at 8:35am
Quote:
Originally Posted by cjre1 View Post

I spout where ever and whenever I want, since I own many Samsung's TV's DLP and LED, Sony LCD's and Plasma from Pioneer KURO ELITE. What do you own?
I have every right to be in this thread since, I own these TV's. Thanks anyway, but I don't need you. Hee Hee.

Thanks for making my point!
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post #161 of 263
4/2/08 at 8:40am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tideas View Post

I sense a lot of fear from the pioneer fanboys. There's a point call diminishing returns.

If set A costs 50% more than set B, then set A should return about 50% greater improvement than set B, if it doesn't, it's not worth it.

A 50" Sammy plasma costs $2300. a 50" Kuro costs $5k. That's a 100% increase.

Does a Kuro give a 100% better picture quality than a Sammy? On technology alone and from what I've seen, not even.


Great point about the Law of Diminishing Returns, been a long time since freshman economics. Definitely not worth the 30%-100% premium for such a marginal if any improvement.
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post #162 of 263
4/2/08 at 9:40am
There are 6 billion people in the world and not everyone likes the same things. I have a friend who loves his TV because it makes every color hot, as in orange faces (looks like a comic book to me). But that's what he likes. As for plasmas, I much prefer them over LCDs but still have a combo of plasmas and LCDs for different purposes. As for the Samsung vs the Elites, for me:
* I like both but I and my wife much prefer the Elites picture (no need to get into details here).
* The Elites don't overscan like the Samsung
* The Elites do dot for dot which is perfect for using a video processor, which I have.
* The Elites have a 72hz refresh rate, great for 24p and a VP
* The Elites blow the doors off Samsung when it comes to SD material if not using a VP.
* Although I go by what I like, googling for Elite reviews you will find it mentioned that the 110/150FDs are the best picture some of the professional reviewers have ever seen.
What do I recommend? Well, even though I have a 150FD in the LR and a 110FD in the BR, I recommend Samsung to almost everyone. For the money, the Samsung plasmas are the best picture. But, in my case I am willing to spend a lot extra for the better (IMO) Elite. BTW, the processing is so good on the Elites that there is no need for an outboard processor. I have a VP50 which I got for before the Elites so I am using it and when I tested the Samsungs I could get almost as good a picture as the Elite using the VP50. But not needed at all for the Elite. Anyway, long story short people like different things. It even puzzles me why LCDs are so much more popular than plasmas. But then again, there are lot's of people out there like my friend. OMT, I use Samsung LCDs in the guest, excersize and bathrooms but may swap to Sony in one case.

Chill out and let everyone enjoy what they have and like.
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post #163 of 263
4/2/08 at 9:53am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tideas View Post

the 720p one? *laughs*

well, i sit about 12ft from the display, so it would have been pretty moronic to pay extra for a 1080p set that has absolutely zero benefit over a 768p display in my situation.

i guess nobody has explained to you yet that screen resolution is probably about the 4th or 5th most important aspect when choosing a TV, regardless of the manufacturer?

at 50" or less, quality 768p beats 1080p for 1080p's sake every time.
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post #164 of 263
4/2/08 at 9:57am
Quote:
Originally Posted by mgavsf View Post

There are 6 billion people in the world and not everyone likes the same things. I have a friend who loves his TV because it makes every color hot, as in orange faces (looks like a comic book to me). But that's what he likes. As for plasmas, I much prefer them over LCDs but still have a combo of plasmas and LCDs for different purposes. As for the Samsung vs the Elites, for me:
* I like both but I and my wife much prefer the Elites picture (no need to get into details here).
* The Elites don't overscan like the Samsung
* The Elites do dot for dot which is perfect for using a video processor, which I have.
* The Elites blow the doors off Samsung when it comes to SD material if not using a VP.
* Although I go by what I like, googling for Elite reviews you will find it mentioned that the 110/150FDs are the best picture some of the professional reviewers have ever seen.
What do I recommend? Well, even though I have a 150FD in the LR and a 110FD in the BR, I recommend Samsung to almost everyone. For the money, the Samsung plasmas are the best picture. But, in my case I am willing to spend a lot extra for the better (IMO) Elite. BTW, the processing is so good on the Elites that there is no need for an outboard processor. I have a VP50 which I got for before the Elites so I am using it and when I tested the Samsungs I could get almost as good a picture as the Elite using the VP50. But not needed at all for the Elite. Anyway, long story short people like different things. It even puzzles me why LCDs are so much more popular than plasmas. But then again, there are lot's of people out there like my friend. OMT, I use Samsung LCDs in the guest, excersize and bathrooms but may swap to Sony in one case.

Well said, and I get your point. My 80 year old uncle, a retired tv tech, has green people on his 10yr old Mitsu rear projection(I think Mitsu) and he loves it. I'm jealous of him because he has found his tv(not even hdtv) perfection
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post #165 of 263
4/2/08 at 10:06am
what video processor do you have?

and with your video processor do you need to have the Kuro Elite version to take full advantage of it?
or will the non-elite kuro still take full advantage of the processor that you use?

there is a nice $400 Oppo SD DVD player that would work great with the Samsung. Are you sure the Samsung 550 will not do 1 to 1 pixel mapping?



Quote:
Originally Posted by mgavsf View Post

There are 6 billion people in the world and not everyone likes the same things. I have a friend who loves his TV because it makes every color hot, as in orange faces (looks like a comic book to me). But that's what he likes. As for plasmas, I much prefer them over LCDs but still have a combo of plasmas and LCDs for different purposes. As for the Samsung vs the Elites, for me:
* I like both but I and my wife much prefer the Elites picture (no need to get into details here).
* The Elites don't overscan like the Samsung
* The Elites do dot for dot which is perfect for using a video processor, which I have.
* The Elites blow the doors off Samsung when it comes to SD material if not using a VP.
* Although I go by what I like, googling for Elite reviews you will find it mentioned that the 110/150FDs are the best picture some of the professional reviewers have ever seen.
What do I recommend? Well, even though I have a 150FD in the LR and a 110FD in the BR, I recommend Samsung to almost everyone. For the money, the Samsung plasmas are the best picture. But, in my case I am willing to spend a lot extra for the better (IMO) Elite. BTW, the processing is so good on the Elites that there is no need for an outboard processor. I have a VP50 which I got for before the Elites so I am using it and when I tested the Samsungs I could get almost as good a picture as the Elite using the VP50. But not needed at all for the Elite. Anyway, long story short people like different things. It even puzzles me why LCDs are so much more popular than plasmas. But then again, there are lot's of people out there like my friend. OMT, I use Samsung LCDs in the guest, excersize and bathrooms but may swap to Sony in one case.

Chill out and let everyone enjoy what they have and like.
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post #166 of 263
4/2/08 at 10:40am
Quote:
Originally Posted by RobbyTV View Post

what video processor do you have?

and with your video processor do you need to have the Kuro Elite version to take full advantage of it?
or will the non-elite kuro still take full advantage of the processor that you use?

there is a nice $400 Oppo SD DVD player that would work great with the Samsung. Are you sure the Samsung 550 will not do 1 to 1 pixel mapping?

It will do 1:1 pixel, it is the Just Scan mode.
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post #167 of 263
4/2/08 at 10:40am
Quote:
Originally Posted by RobbyTV View Post

what video processor do you have?

and with your video processor do you need to have the Kuro Elite version to take full advantage of it?
or will the non-elite kuro still take full advantage of the processor that you use?

there is a nice $400 Oppo SD DVD player that would work great with the Samsung. Are you sure the Samsung 550 will not do 1 to 1 pixel mapping?

I have a VP50 from DVDO. As for non-Elites I just downloaded the manuals and the they do not have dot for dot. You really need any monitor that does dot for dot because you don't want the display to do any rescaling, just show every dot it's sent. I don't know about the Samsung 550 or any new series because I have not read the manuals. You can check it by looking for a dot for dot type setting, usually along with "wide, just, etc.". If your display can't do dot for dot then it's going to modify the VPs output some way. The Samsungs not only did not do dot for dot but they overscan by 3-5 percent, you can see that on any side by side comparison of Samsung plasmas with Sony, etc. I just downloaded the PN50A550 manual and did not see anything different, no mention of dot for dot or anything similar. For Elites, no need for scaler. If you have a good scaler like the VP50 then no need for upscaling DVD. Just make sure it can do 480i over HDMI which many don't.
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post #168 of 263
4/2/08 at 10:41am
Quote:
Originally Posted by madkaw View Post

It will do 1:1 pixel, it is the Just Scan mode.

That is not correct. Which was demonstrated when I tested with my VP.
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post #169 of 263
4/2/08 at 12:27pm
Forgot this:
* The Elites have a 72hz refresh rate, great for 24p and a VP
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post #170 of 263
4/2/08 at 12:42pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mgavsf View Post

That is not correct. Which was demonstrated when I tested with my VP.

Umm, perhaps you had issues but my understanding is "just scan" allows for no overscan.
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post #171 of 263
4/2/08 at 12:49pm
I know Pioneer is going through tough times but there is no need to get crazy about marketing their plasmas in this thread.
Despite the continued hype, some by the way not confirmed in some test, the pioneers are not head and shoulders above the Sammies.
I am eager to see more Sammy reviews, especially those that compare the new models vs the old models.
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post #172 of 263
4/2/08 at 1:19pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by discopaul View Post

I know Pioneer is going through tough times but there is no need to get crazy about marketing their plasmas in this thread.
Despite the continued hype, some by the way not confirmed in some test, the pioneers are not head and shoulders above the Sammies.
I am eager to see more Sammy reviews, especially those that compare the new models vs the old models.

No intent to market, just inform by passing on my findings and experiences. FWIW as I stated I recommend Samsung plasmas to almost everyone unless you can afford an Elite. Also, my wife and I looked at all the new stuff we could find this past weekend and found the new Samsung plasmas and LCDs seemed as good or better than last years models and... they are less expensive. The only models that were bad (and I mean really bad) are the new LCD 330 models. They are really cheap and really bad. Also, downloaded the manuals for some models and there was only one significant change in functionality, they now handle 480i over HDMI. That many not seem like a big deal except in my case I am using an HDMI splitter in the bedroom to feed an HR20 Directv to 3 TVs. One is a Pio Elite 110FD which I want to feed native to since it's scaling is better than the HR20. So it gets 480i when appropriate. But... the Samsung in the bathroom can't handle 480i so I have to reconfig the HR20 before using the bathroom TV (during baths). Anyway, other than that the functions are identical to last years. The picture may be better in some cases. At least that's what I found so far.
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post #173 of 263
4/2/08 at 3:26pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mgavsf View Post

That is not correct. Which was demonstrated when I tested with my VP.

Then explain these pics, first is just scan second is 16:9
LL
LL
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post #174 of 263
4/2/08 at 4:59pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mgavsf View Post

There are 6 billion people in the world and not everyone likes the same things. I have a friend who loves his TV because it makes every color hot, as in orange faces (looks like a comic book to me). But that's what he likes. As for plasmas, I much prefer them over LCDs but still have a combo of plasmas and LCDs for different purposes. As for the Samsung vs the Elites, for me:
* I like both but I and my wife much prefer the Elites picture (no need to get into details here).
* The Elites don't overscan like the Samsung
* The Elites do dot for dot which is perfect for using a video processor, which I have.
* The Elites have a 72hz refresh rate, great for 24p and a VP
* The Elites blow the doors off Samsung when it comes to SD material if not using a VP.
* Although I go by what I like, googling for Elite reviews you will find it mentioned that the 110/150FDs are the best picture some of the professional reviewers have ever seen.
What do I recommend? Well, even though I have a 150FD in the LR and a 110FD in the BR, I recommend Samsung to almost everyone. For the money, the Samsung plasmas are the best picture. But, in my case I am willing to spend a lot extra for the better (IMO) Elite. BTW, the processing is so good on the Elites that there is no need for an outboard processor. I have a VP50 which I got for before the Elites so I am using it and when I tested the Samsungs I could get almost as good a picture as the Elite using the VP50. But not needed at all for the Elite. Anyway, long story short people like different things. It even puzzles me why LCDs are so much more popular than plasmas. But then again, there are lot's of people out there like my friend. OMT, I use Samsung LCDs in the guest, excersize and bathrooms but may swap to Sony in one case.

Chill out and let everyone enjoy what they have and like.

I tried the VP50 on my Samsung and only saw a minor improvement. What is your experience on a dot-by-dot set? I hear that it produces a soft picture
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post #175 of 263
4/2/08 at 5:18pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by G-star View Post

well, i sit about 12ft from the display, so it would have been pretty moronic to pay extra for a 1080p set that has absolutely zero benefit over a 768p display in my situation.

i guess nobody has explained to you yet that screen resolution is probably about the 4th or 5th most important aspect when choosing a TV, regardless of the manufacturer?

at 50" or less, quality 768p beats 1080p for 1080p's sake every time.

And I sit about 8ft away, on a 50" set, 1080p begins to become noticeable. Thus, for me at least, 1080p > 720p.

*Refers to this chart*
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post #176 of 263
4/2/08 at 5:25pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by madkaw View Post

Then explain these pics, first is just scan second is 16:9

The Samsung is still doing some scaling at either setting. There is no 1 to 1 dot. I checked thoroughly because we almost went with a Samsung in the BR. Anyway, I tested with a VP50 at a dealer, compare the Samsung at any setting was not the same as Pio set at dot for dot. Justify is a stretch mode which has nothing to do with dot for dot.
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post #177 of 263
4/2/08 at 5:28pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mgavsf View Post

The Samsung is still doing some scaling at either setting. There is no 1 to 1 dot. I checked thoroughly because we almost went with a Samsung in the BR. Anyway, I tested with a VP50 at a dealer, compare the Samsung at any setting was not the same as Pio set at dot for dot. Justify is a stretch mode which has nothing to do with dot for dot.

I still dont see how it can be stretched and have "0" overscan.
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post #178 of 263
4/2/08 at 5:28pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by omeletpants View Post

I tried the VP50 on my Samsung and only saw a minor improvement. What is your experience on a dot-by-dot set? I hear that it produces a soft picture

Mine is razor sharp on dot for dot. No matter what the VP does, if the TV changes it in any way it's not going to be good. BTW, when I bought the VP50 I actually went to DVDO (I live close to them) and they spent a lot of time with me. The person said it's really important to get a dot for dot display if you use a VP. All the ones they used to demo had dot for dot. Although the VP50 does allow you to output the exact number of pixels to match your display, the display must simply "dump" them on the screen and not try to do anything even though it's the same number of pixels. That's what dot for dot is for.
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post #179 of 263
4/2/08 at 6:10pm
This is from the Samsung website faq. Sorry if it is a little off but it didn't want to copy and paste correctly!


Which Samsung Plasma TVs Have 1:1 Pixel Mapping (JustScan)?


The following 2007 Samsung Plasma TVs have 1:1 Pixel Mapping through the JustScan function:

HP-T4234
HP-T5064

HP-T4254
FP-T5084

HP-T4264
FP-T6374

HP-T5034


HP-T5054



The JustScan function, which turns on 1:1 Pixel Mapping, works only when you input 1080i DTV signals, 1080i and 1080p signals through the HDMI jack, or 1080i and 1080p signals through the Component jacks.

To access the JustScan function, follow these steps:

Press the Menu button on your remote. The Main menu appears.
Press the Enter button to select Picture. The Picture menu appears.
Use the Up or Down arrow button on the remote to select Size, and then press Enter.
Press the Up or Down arrow button on the remote to select JustScan.
Note: You can also press the P.Size button on the remote to cycle through the available picture sizes and select JustScan.

Important: JustScan is available only on the 2007 Plasma models listed above. It is not available on any Plasma models from any previous years.
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post #180 of 263
4/2/08 at 6:15pm
good post.... so what is the deal with the AVS member mgavsf who claims they will NOT do 1:1 Pixel Mapping?


Quote:
Originally Posted by jaymerkramer View Post

This is from the Samsung website faq. Sorry if it is a little off but it didn't want to copy and paste correctly!


Which Samsung Plasma TVs Have 1:1 Pixel Mapping (JustScan)?


The following 2007 Samsung Plasma TVs have 1:1 Pixel Mapping through the JustScan function:

HP-T4234
HP-T5064

HP-T4254
FP-T5084

HP-T4264
FP-T6374

HP-T5034


HP-T5054



The JustScan function, which turns on 1:1 Pixel Mapping, works only when you input 1080i DTV signals, 1080i and 1080p signals through the HDMI jack, or 1080i and 1080p signals through the Component jacks.

To access the JustScan function, follow these steps:

Press the Menu button on your remote. The Main menu appears.
Press the Enter button to select Picture. The Picture menu appears.
Use the Up or Down arrow button on the remote to select Size, and then press Enter.
Press the Up or Down arrow button on the remote to select JustScan.
Note: You can also press the P.Size button on the remote to cycle through the available picture sizes and select JustScan.

Important: JustScan is available only on the 2007 Plasma models listed above. It is not available on any Plasma models from any previous years.
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