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Arcsoft TotalMedia Theatre - Page 52

post #1531 of 4419
6/6/08 at 6:07am
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexHt View Post

Hi,

Here is the press release with specs from ASUS.

http://www.asus.com/news_show.aspx?id=11638

I dont get it, is this a sound card with video capabilities?
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post #1532 of 4419
6/6/08 at 6:13am
Quote:
Originally Posted by aerosnow88 View Post

I dont get it, is this a sound card with video capabilities?

Pretty sure this is the HDMI sound card with HDMI video passthrough. So it merges whatever HDMI video you want with HDMI 1.3a sound.

Perfect solution if you ask me - componentize the video and audio, and get away from all this IGP nonsense.
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post #1533 of 4419
6/6/08 at 6:21am
It also applies post processing to the video if you want it to...
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post #1534 of 4419
6/6/08 at 7:00am
http://www.anandtech.com/tradeshows/showdoc.aspx?i=3328

Comes with a full version of Arcsoft, not a cut down OEM one.
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post #1535 of 4419
6/6/08 at 8:59am
Quote:
Originally Posted by jojoxl View Post

http://www.anandtech.com/tradeshows/showdoc.aspx?i=3328

Comes with a full version of Arcsoft, not a cut down OEM one.

What's the non-molex connector on the back of the card?

And when is this supposed to be available? Best I can tell is October timeframe?
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post #1536 of 4419
6/6/08 at 10:16am
Quote:
Originally Posted by jojoxl View Post

http://www.anandtech.com/tradeshows/showdoc.aspx?i=3328

Comes with a full version of Arcsoft, not a cut down OEM one.

Why does this card require separate power?
Makes me worry about heat issues.

It would be nice if the on board video process could generate blank video so you could use the card for audio sent to the Pre-Pro and and let me send my Video directly to the display.


- Rich
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post #1537 of 4419
6/6/08 at 10:54am
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichB View Post

Why does this card require separate power?
Makes me worry about heat issues.

It would be nice if the on board video process could generate blank video so you could use the card for audio sent to the Pre-Pro and and let me send my Video directly to the display.


- Rich

You're just saying that to yank my chain...

Obviously this is a pointless way to architect your system. Why would anyone with an HDMI capable pre-pro/AVR do anything other than send audio+video over a single HDMI cable?
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post #1538 of 4419
6/6/08 at 11:02am
Quote:
Originally Posted by AbMagFab View Post

You're just saying that to yank my chain...

Obviously this is a pointless way to architect your system. Why would anyone with an HDMI capable pre-pro/AVR do anything other than send audio+video over a single HDMI cable?

You obviously haven't read enough of RichB's posts
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post #1539 of 4419
6/6/08 at 3:26pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by AbMagFab View Post

You're just saying that to yank my chain...

Obviously this is a pointless way to architect your system. Why would anyone with an HDMI capable pre-pro/AVR do anything other than send audio+video over a single HDMI cable?

Time for an education

HTDV supported resolutions: 480i, 480P, 720P, 1080i, 1080P.
Pre-Pros like Integra/Onkyo do not recognize the audio unless the video is at those resolutions.

My 65 inch plasma is 1366x768 so I cannot send the display native rate and get audio.

How many displays can output 7.1 audio

- Rich
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post #1540 of 4419
6/6/08 at 5:34pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichB View Post

Time for an education

HTDV supported resolutions: 480i, 480P, 720P, 1080i, 1080P.
Pre-Pros like Integra/Onkyo do not recognize the audio unless the video is at those resolutions.

My 65 inch plasma is 1366x768 so I cannot send the display native rate and get audio.

How many displays can output 7.1 audio

- Rich

Huh?? If you're sending through your AVR, who cares about sound through the TV? Unless you mean something else.

1366x768 has nothing to do with anything here. Your sending 480i/p, 720p, or 1080i/p to your display, it has nothing to do with the native res of your display, it has to do with the native res of the source signal. Your never sending a source signal with 1366x768 to your display (unless your doing something totally silly like configuring your PC card that way, but there's no way you'd do that on a HTPC to play movies and such, as you'd have unnecessary scalings going on in the wrong place, so I'm sure that's not the case).
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post #1541 of 4419
6/6/08 at 5:47pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by AbMagFab View Post

Huh?? If you're sending through your AVR, who cares about sound through the TV? Unless you mean something else.

1366x768 has nothing to do with anything here. Your sending 480i/p, 720p, or 1080i/p to your display, it has nothing to do with the native res of your display, it has to do with the native res of the source signal. Your never sending a source signal with 1366x768 to your display (unless your doing something totally silly like configuring your PC card that way, but there's no way you'd do that on a HTPC to play movies and such, as you'd have unnecessary scalings going on in the wrong place, so I'm sure that's not the case).

You always send a fixed pixel display its native rate. The ATI cards do an excellent job of scaling. There is necessary scaling it is a matter of what does it better. Perhaps you have noticed that EDID of you display is recognized by the graphic card and set improperly. The signal is progressive and scaled is better than converting it to interlaced, then deinterlacing and then scaling. This is the case for any display that cannot accept 1080i.

What the hell is so great about 1 cable coming out of your PC when you two anyway. PC to Preamp, Preamp to display. Is that earthshaking different to one cable to the display and one to the Preamp?

This entire problem is caused by DRM and HDCP which we have waited over a year to get products to get the frigging sound at full resolution in digital format out of the PC.

- Rich
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post #1542 of 4419
6/6/08 at 5:58pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichB View Post

You always send a fixed pixel display its native rate. The ATI cards do an excellent job of scaling. There is necessary scaling it is a matter of what does it better. Perhaps you have noticed that EDID of you display is recognized by the graphic card and set improperly. The signal is progressive and scaled is better than converting it to interlaced, then deinterlacing and then scaling. This is the case for any display that cannot accept 1080i.

What the hell is so great about 1 cable coming out of your PC when you two anyway. PC to Preamp, Preamp to display. Is that earthshaking different to one cable to the display and one to the Preamp?

This entire problem is caused by DRM and HDCP which we have waited over a year to get products to get the frigging sound at full resolution in digital format out of the PC.

- Rich

Wow...

First, I have 7 devices into my pre-pro. If you have just one, then your pre-pro is severly underutilized.

In any case, to use an example of one device is just silly and transparent. The point is to have multiple devices with one cable each into the pre-pro, and then one cable from the pre-pro into the TV. If we followed your logic, we'd have two cables from every device - one into the pre-pro, one into the TV, and would quickly run out of TV inputs. (In fact, back in the old days, that's what we used to do - but we bought HDMI pre-pros to stop doing this!)

So it sounds like your the one guy who would happily buy a BluRay player (and HD Game System and HD DVR) with two HDMI outputs on it - one for video and one for audio? Nifty. I'm sure someone will be making those soon.

I would be surprised if the ATI does a better job of scaling than your TV, but perhaps you just have a really old TV or something?

Bottom line - If you find yourself using/wanting/needing two HDMI cables for any single source device, then something is wrong or very old in your setup. In your specific case, it's probably your TV.

(And not sure what your last point is, but pretty much all TV's nowadays accept 1080p/60 in and most accept 1080p/24 in, unless I'm misunderstanding what you're saying?)
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post #1543 of 4419
6/6/08 at 6:13pm
Rich,

Thanks for clarifying why you send 1366 x 768 to the panel. I have the same problem in that my display is as stated above. I tried to scale at 720p, but then again you are losing resolution at 720 compared to 1360 x 768. 1 to 1 pixel mapping is also desirable for a clear and sharp picture. On my Marquee CRT 1080p is the best in this case.

HDMI is no better than DVI other than the audio is output within the same cable. For high end 2 channel audio, HDMI is useless. Besides, the final output of audio is always analog. But I suppose the less cables the better when using quality cabling.

There are still quit a few TV's that accept a 1080p signal and downscale to the native panel resolution. That is why it is so important to read the spec's before buying. Unfortunately, power-strip is required to create a custom resolution of 1366 x 768 with the ATI card. Resolutions are created with square or round pixels depending on the final output.
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post #1544 of 4419
6/6/08 at 6:27pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by AbMagFab View Post

Wow...

First, I have 7 devices into my pre-pro. If you have just one, then your pre-pro is severely underutilized.

In any case, to use an example of one device is just silly and transparent. The point is to have multiple devices with one cable each into the pre-pro, and then one cable from the pre-pro into the TV. If we followed your logic, we'd have two cables from every device - one into the pre-pro, one into the TV, and would quickly run out of TV inputs. (In fact, back in the old days, that's what we used to do - but we bought HDMI pre-pros to stop doing this!)

So it sounds like your the one guy who would happily buy a Blu-Ray player (and HD Game System and HD DVR) with two HDMI outputs on it - one for video and one for audio? Nifty. I'm sure someone will be making those soon.

I would be surprised if the ATI does a better job of scaling than your TV, but perhaps you just have a really old TV or something?

Bottom line - If you find yourself using/wanting/needing two HDMI cables for any single source device, then something is wrong or very old in your setup. In your specific case, it's probably your TV.

(And not sure what your last point is, but pretty much all TV's nowadays accept 1080p/60 in and most accept 1080p/24 in, unless I'm misunderstanding what you're saying?)

I guess I cannot help you understand.

For the record, I have:
- TiVo HD
- HD OTA receiver
- Oppo 980H DVD/SACD/DVD-Audio Player
- HTPC with HD DVD and Blu-Ray, TMT and PowerDVD 7 and 8
- Lumagen Radiance
- Integra 885 Preamp
- Sunfire Cinema Grand Signature AMP
- Revel Salons Front, Revel Voice Center, Revel Studios Rear
- Panasonic 657UY Plasma Display
- Pronto 9400 remote

This is not without complexity. Luckily the Lumagen can be used to send the audio one way and the video the other but I have been through this before and adding components in the chain can cause problems.

HTPC's traditionally send the audio one way and the video the other. I will buy the product that allows me to continue this tradition.

- Rich
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post #1545 of 4419
6/6/08 at 8:17pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by AbMagFab View Post

Wow...

First, I have 7 devices into my pre-pro. If you have just one, then your pre-pro is severly underutilized.

If the one device happens to be a PC, then it's quite possible that the pre-pro is not severly underutilized.

Quote:


In any case, to use an example of one device is just silly and transparent. The point is to have multiple devices with one cable each into the pre-pro, and then one cable from the pre-pro into the TV. If we followed your logic, we'd have two cables from every device - one into the pre-pro, one into the TV, and would quickly run out of TV inputs. (In fact, back in the old days, that's what we used to do - but we bought HDMI pre-pros to stop doing this!)

I think you're being overly critical of the choice that someone else is making. The PC is a special case as it's (in nearly all cases) the only source one might have that is capable of generating a resolution other than the standard 480i/480p/720p/1080i/1080p choices. So ALL devices expect the HTPC can have a single cable going to the pre-pro, the HTPC can send audio to the pre-pro, and then the PC and pre-pro can each send HDMI video to the PC. So in the end, it's 1 extra cable in order to optimally make use of the HTPC's video capabilities. RichB is correct that the ATI cards have very high quality scaling, and it's definitely wrong to assume that all current TV's will do a better job than the PC will at this. Further, for the PC desktop you would most definitely want to use the native resolution of the display so no scaling is done at all to get the very best picture quality.

Quote:


So it sounds like your the one guy who would happily buy a BluRay player (and HD Game System and HD DVR) with two HDMI outputs on it - one for video and one for audio? Nifty. I'm sure someone will be making those soon.

Now who's being silly? Come on, that's not what RichB is suggesting and you know it.

Quote:


I would be surprised if the ATI does a better job of scaling than your TV, but perhaps you just have a really old TV or something?

Unless the TV is a Pioneer Kuro, I wouldn't be surprised at all.

Quote:


Bottom line - If you find yourself using/wanting/needing two HDMI cables for any single source device, then something is wrong or very old in your setup. In your specific case, it's probably your TV.

When the device is a PC, I strongly disagree.
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post #1546 of 4419
6/7/08 at 6:34am
Quote:


Bottom line - If you find yourself using/wanting/needing two HDMI cables for any single source device, then something is wrong or very old in your setup. In your specific case, it's probably your TV.

Other issues caused by the one cable approach from a PC with a number of integrated HDMI equipped receivers is that fact tht some of them clip BTB (16) and WTW (240)signals, besides not supporting many resolutions and refresh rates.

For example, I feed 1080 24PsF from my PC to my Qualia 004. No way that the receiver is going to pass that signal, so 2 signal paths are mandated for me as well.

Also, NVidia video cards do scaling extremely well, better than 99% of the TV's out there can do.

Bottom line, Anyone who advocates a single cable approach in todays world is probably not using an HTPC in their system.

Vern
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post #1547 of 4419
6/7/08 at 9:22am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vern Dias View Post

Bottom line, Anyone who advocates a single cable approach in todays world is probably not using an HTPC in their system.

Vern

You need a better AVR if it cannot handle the simple things you throw at it. The Denon 3808 can do 1920x1080/24/1:1SF.
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post #1548 of 4419
6/8/08 at 1:04pm
How does one intergrate total media theater into VMC? I don't play discs on my HTPC. All of my video is stored on the hard drive and accessed through VMC.
It also appears that it doesn't support mkv files?
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post #1549 of 4419
6/8/08 at 1:55pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by archer75 View Post

How does one intergrate total media theater into VMC? I don't play discs on my HTPC. All of my video is stored on the hard drive and accessed through VMC.
It also appears that it doesn't support mkv files?

You have to have VMC setup for use prior to installing TMT. As long as you do, the TMT install routine will create shortcuts inside VMC to play HD and BR discs. TMT will also become the default HD and BR player, and will autolaunch from both inside VMC and outside it in just plain Vista.
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post #1550 of 4419
6/8/08 at 2:15pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by cybrsage View Post

You have to have VMC setup for use prior to installing TMT. As long as you do, the TMT install routine will create shortcuts inside VMC to play HD and BR discs. TMT will also become the default HD and BR player, and will autolaunch from both inside VMC and outside it in just plain Vista.

So how do I setup VMC so that it will work? I've been using Media Center for the past year or so. Just installed TMT and nothing changed in media center.
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post #1551 of 4419
6/8/08 at 3:00pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vern Dias View Post

Bottom line, Anyone who advocates a single cable approach in todays world is probably not using an HTPC in their system.

Vern

Well, I have a single a HDMI cable from my HTPC and it feeds my home theater setup along with a host of other sources which by the way are all HDMI. This is 2008, isn't it???
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post #1552 of 4419
6/8/08 at 4:12pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by carrera1 View Post

Well, I have a single a HDMI cable from my HTPC and it feeds my home theater setup along with a host of other sources which by the way are all HDMI. This is 2008, isn't it???

This whole argument is downright silly. If someone has found that they're unable to pass the PC resolution that works best with their display through their HDMI capable pre-pro, why is it such a big deal to some that they decided to use an extra HDMI cable to accomplish the task? If a single cable works for some then great, but don't blindly assume that it's the best solution for everyone.
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post #1553 of 4419
6/8/08 at 4:57pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by gsr View Post

This whole argument is downright silly. If someone has found that they're unable to pass the PC resolution that works best with their display through their HDMI capable pre-pro, why is it such a big deal to some that they decided to use an extra HDMI cable to accomplish the task? If a single cable works for some then great, but don't blindly assume that it's the best solution for everyone.

Where did I say it was the best solution for everyone?

.... enough of this gibberish...
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post #1554 of 4419
6/9/08 at 6:19am
Quote:
Originally Posted by archer75 View Post

So how do I setup VMC so that it will work? I've been using Media Center for the past year or so. Just installed TMT and nothing changed in media center.

Strange, mine did it by default.

Did you update TMT at all yet? If not, try updating TMT and see if they show up.

You can also try uninstalling and reinstalling TMT. Just make sure you know your name and password to reregister it.
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post #1555 of 4419
6/9/08 at 6:23am
Quote:
Originally Posted by gsr View Post

This whole argument is downright silly. If someone has found that they're unable to pass the PC resolution that works best with their display through their HDMI capable pre-pro, why is it such a big deal to some that they decided to use an extra HDMI cable to accomplish the task? If a single cable works for some then great, but don't blindly assume that it's the best solution for everyone.

Very true, whatever works best for the person is the best route to go.

However, saying 2 cable is superior because only high end equipment does XYZ is silly, unless the definition of high end has shifted to the sub $1000 market.
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post #1556 of 4419
6/9/08 at 2:50pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by cybrsage View Post

However, saying 2 cable is superior because only high end equipment does XYZ is silly, unless the definition of high end has shifted to the sub $1000 market.

Using 2 cables from a source is superior if there is a limitation somewhere in the chain (most likely in the pre-pro / receiver / HDMI switcher) that is overcome by using 2 cables (such as the case where the pre-pro won't pass through the desired resolution). This situation is probably limited to a PC being the source, though some high-end scalers might have similar issues. High-end and cost really have nothing to do with it.
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post #1557 of 4419
6/9/08 at 3:50pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by cybrsage View Post

You need a better AVR if it cannot handle the simple things you throw at it. The Denon 3808 can do 1920x1080/24/1:1SF.

Yeah except that you can't use Intel G35/G45 for LPCM because your EDID is malformed.

You can take your broken ass 3808 and put it in the pile of recievers that do one thing wrong.

Everybody's setups are different with what they can and cannot do, and on top of that everyone has different requirements for what they want their gear to do.

The HTPC being the most maliable piece of hardware often presents very unique issues.
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post #1558 of 4419
6/9/08 at 4:29pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by gsr View Post

Using 2 cables from a source is superior if there is a limitation somewhere in the chain (most likely in the pre-pro / receiver / HDMI switcher) that is overcome by using 2 cables (such as the case where the pre-pro won't pass through the desired resolution). This situation is probably limited to a PC being the source, though some high-end scalers might have similar issues. High-end and cost really have nothing to do with it.

Not to mention the fact that you can have the HDMI inputs on your HDTV calibrated to different sources. You obviously can't do this using a switcher.
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post #1559 of 4419
6/9/08 at 6:08pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by gsr View Post

Using 2 cables from a source is superior if there is a limitation somewhere in the chain (most likely in the pre-pro / receiver / HDMI switcher) that is overcome by using 2 cables (such as the case where the pre-pro won't pass through the desired resolution). This situation is probably limited to a PC being the source, though some high-end scalers might have similar issues. High-end and cost really have nothing to do with it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sotti View Post

Yeah except that you can't use Intel G35/G45 for LPCM because your EDID is malformed.

You can take your broken ass 3808 and put it in the pile of recievers that do one thing wrong.

Everybody's setups are different with what they can and cannot do, and on top of that everyone has different requirements for what they want their gear to do.

The HTPC being the most maliable piece of hardware often presents very unique issues.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jojoxl View Post

Not to mention the fact that you can have the HDMI inputs on your HDTV calibrated to different sources. You obviously can't do this using a switcher.

If If If If If....

Excatly what we have been saying. IF this, IF that...IF all the above.

No one solution is superior to the other. Each has their own uses and their own place.

How about this, IF all life on Earth ended and no one was left to provide power for the home theater systems, which would provide better video, one cable or two?

Exactly...with enough IFs thrown about, we can make ANY number of cables the prefered choice. Heck, IF I had the power to project images with my mind, then using zero cables would be the best choice...

Can we stop pretending that either one or two cables is the best choice and go back to just saying the best choice is the one which works best for the person who is using it?

Sotti, if you think you can find an AVR which does not do at least one thing wrong, I welcome you to begin your search. I suspect you will have a better chance understanding the sound of one hand clapping than finding a AVR which does not do at least one thing wrong.

I am curious, how did you check the EDID capture from the G45 motherboard, seeing as they are not yet availabe?
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post #1560 of 4419
6/9/08 at 6:11pm
Anyone have word on when the next update will be, and what it will include?

I am curious as to if they will update the current version to support the ASUS HDMI sound card or if we will have to install the version which comes with the card.
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