AVS › AVS Forum › Blu-ray & HD DVD › Dual Format Players › 5000 to be discontinued in May!
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

5000 to be discontinued in May! - Page 2

post #31 of 132
1/23/08 at 1:29pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by martin1406 View Post

What is the consensus on this issue. I have until January 31 to return it. What should I do?

Thanks

I have to return mine by the end of the month too. I'm personally waiting a couple days til Engadget gets a response from Samsung or lack of response. I'm putting my bet down on the latter. My box and receipt are patiently sitting by the front door.
Reply
Reply

AVS Top Picks

post #32 of 132
1/23/08 at 1:34pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by martin1406 View Post

What is the consensus on this issue. I have until January 31 to return it. What should I do?

Thanks

Consensus is that nobody knows for sure what is going to happen.

However, there have been the following observations:

-Samsung has been absolutely silent publicly on the 5000 since it was released.
-The 5000 does not currently fully decode or bitstream TrueHD or DTS-HD MA.
-It is unclear whether the Broadcom chipset used in the 5000 is even capable of this decoding.
-It is unclear if/when firmware might be released to address the audio issues. Many, many different answeres have come from Samsung reps on this subject, ranging from never to next week.
-Ben at Engadget reported that Samsung will be discontinuing the player around May.

Draw your own conclusions from this.
Reply
Reply
post #33 of 132
1/23/08 at 1:52pm
Whew, I'm glad I waited-- I think my best bet is getting a standalone BR along with my XA2. Although, I really wanted a DF player. DAMNIT !! Come'on Samsung, I was really looking forward in getting a 5K !!
Reply
Reply
post #34 of 132
1/23/08 at 1:55pm
well....

it would seem to me that one could return the player at ANY time if Samsung never releases an update that allows the player to decode or pass the audio codecs it claims to.

at that point, the unit does not work as advertised.

BUT at this point Samsung has said there is an update coming that will allow is to do so.

Personally, I'll wait and see if Samsung makes good on the promise of a update.

if not, Samsung will take back my player and give me a new one that does everything the box, manual and specs say it can do.


Pretty cut and dried if you ask me.
Reply
Reply
post #35 of 132
1/23/08 at 2:02pm
If I understand correclty what's going on, Broadcom promised the world with their 7440 chip, and failed to deliver. Manufacturers such as LG and Samsung went ahead and bought Broadcom's word and are now screwed, along with all their customers who purchased the dual format players.

I've always been a home theater nut, but the way everything is dealt with now (politics and not consumer's choice deciding the war, media being bought out or reporting slanted tech news to follow an agenda, customers being alpha or beta testers and then given the shaft, ...) just sickens me.

So here we have a player that should never have been sold in the 1st place, as it is still not profile 1.1 compliant and we don't know for sure if it will ever be. To add insult to the injury, it looks like the Broadcom chip is not capable of decoding TrueHD and DTS-MA in a 5.1 configuration, as was originally promised.

As if that wasn't enough, most likely Blu-Ray will be the only one standing soon, and there's still no flawless BR player other than the PS3 out. I have a perfectly good XA2 player here and never had any issue whatsoever with any of my 220+ HD DVDs or any of my DVDs, but Blu-Ray still can't get their crap together 2 years later ? This is what we get when a company like Sony decided to use their game console dominance as a shoe-in for the next format : a game console situation for the home theater electronics world.
Reply
Reply
post #36 of 132
1/23/08 at 2:02pm
Looks like Engadget updated the article. Samsung said the discontinuation date is subject to change.

I am guessing they are working on the 5500 and the 6500. I am guessing the will discontinue the 5000 after the 5500 hits the streets. It was originally scheduled to come out in may as well.
Reply
Reply
post #37 of 132
1/23/08 at 4:26pm
I just returned my unit and put down a deposit for the Denon 3800.

My guess is HD-DVD doesn't have a future and the rest of my system is Denon and it works great. I don't mind paying $2K for something that delivers. Very dissapointed with the PQ of samsung.
Reply
Reply
post #38 of 132
1/23/08 at 5:04pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by martin1406 View Post

What is the consensus on this issue. I have until January 31 to return it. What should I do?

Thanks

Return it. It's a no brainer.

Seggers
Reply
Reply
post #39 of 132
1/23/08 at 5:09pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Choptop View Post

I dont get it... why would you take the player back?

My 5000 works fine. I dont care that Sammy will put out a new model in a few months. Happens all the time. Ya dont trade in you car every year when the manufacturers release the new model year do ya?

Choptop,

Look at the outside of the box. What does it say next to DVD? (I'll help you, it says 'player').

Well, it doesn't. I put 4 HD DVDs into mine, pre and post FW update and they *ALL* failed.

On the car bit, none of us paid car money for what was supposed to be a high end player. Now, in your fantasy world, $800 may not be a lot of money, but in mine (fantasy or otherwise), it is.

I will not have a $800, sleek looking, F'ing doorstop in my house. No HD audio codecs, no idea on FW updates, not 1.1 or 2.0 compliant and never likely to be, no news from Samsung (oh wait, they did post about 3:10 to Yuma, *AFTER* we told them about it), it's not even been put out to pasture (they shot the old nag).

BTW, I just bought a PS3, A35 and Oppo 3-1 HDMI splitter for *less* money than I paid for the 5K (even after a $80 voucher).

Why the hell wouldn't you take it back?

Seggers
Reply
Reply
post #40 of 132
1/23/08 at 5:15pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Choptop View Post

well....

it would seem to me that one could return the player at ANY time if Samsung never releases an update that allows the player to decode or pass the audio codecs it claims to.

at that point, the unit does not work as advertised.

BUT at this point Samsung has said there is an update coming that will allow is to do so.

Personally, I'll wait and see if Samsung makes good on the promise of a update.

if not, Samsung will take back my player and give me a new one that does everything the box, manual and specs say it can do.


Pretty cut and dried if you ask me.

I have some water front property that you might be interested in....

Seggers
Reply
Reply
post #41 of 132
1/23/08 at 6:04pm
I am damn glad I dodged this bullet!
Reply
Reply
post #42 of 132
1/23/08 at 6:06pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by seggers View Post

I have some water front property that you might be interested in....

Seggers

well the FTC and state law says that Samsung will deliver a product that does what the manufacturer claims it does. If not, they take it back.

I'm not too worried.
Reply
Reply
post #43 of 132
1/23/08 at 6:07pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by seggers View Post

Choptop,

Look at the outside of the box. What does it say next to DVD? (I'll help you, it says 'player').

Well, it doesn't. I put 4 HD DVDs into mine, pre and post FW update and they *ALL* failed.



Why the hell wouldn't you take it back?

Seggers

which discs were those? Have you reported the titles to the "Discs the 5000 has trouble with" thread? Have others reported the same titles dont work?

All the HD-DVD's I've tried have played.
Reply
Reply
post #44 of 132
1/23/08 at 6:26pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Choptop View Post

which discs were those? Have you reported the titles to the "Discs the 5000 has trouble with" thread? Have others reported the same titles dont work?

All the HD-DVD's I've tried have played.

Clerks II had picture issues before the main credits rolled and has what looked like a layer transition issue at 1:04:44. (To my knowledge, HD DVD is single layer).
Top Gun locked up at around 15mins, requiring a power down.
Aeon Flux locked up in the 40odd min region and again later (I forget where), both requiring a power down.
ST TOS S1, disc 1, 2 and 3 had issues with the 2nd episode on each disc, requiring a power off.

Clerks II and TOS have been confirmed by other postsers. All issues reported, initially, on both threads. AF was checked by a friend and found to be OK on his 5K.

Clerks II and TOS disc 1 still having issues post FW update.

The Simpsons BD had a couple of visual issues when Homer was on the heart shaped iceberg. I forget where exactly.

300 BD played flawlessly and was a fantastic film (even with the intended graininess).

Not that I have them, but then there's 3:10 to Yuma, Sunshine....... All reported by others.

All my discs, except 300, were brand new and I cracked the casing to play them. 300 was a 2nd hand disc from FYE that I tried for fun.

Out of curiosity, what discs have you tried?

Seggers.
Reply
Reply
post #45 of 132
1/23/08 at 6:30pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Choptop View Post

well the FTC and state law says that Samsung will deliver a product that does what the manufacturer claims it does. If not, they take it back.

I'm not too worried.

Choptop,

Not sure how much CA can screw down Samsung for, but you might want to swing past and read some of this:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...55388&page=127

There's so much wiggle room in there that they might even be able to make you pay for having the player.....

And then there's the Broadcom chip issue, possibly.

All in all, it's not looking rosy or half full.

Seggers
Reply
Reply
post #46 of 132
1/23/08 at 6:50pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by seggers View Post

There's so much wiggle room in there that they might even be able to make you pay for having the player.....

There isn't as much wiggle room as Samsung would like to have you believe. A company can't just state anything they want in the fine print and remove themselves from any responsibility to deliver the product that they advertised. In other words, just because they state "we reserve the right to do anything we want" in print, it does NOT give them the right to do anything they want. They absolutely CAN be held to the very reasonable expectation that they'll deliver EVERYTHING that was stated in their advertisements, even if they later decide to pull these advertisements. If they don't do this, then the product was sold under false pretenses, which is not legal.

Larry
Reply
Reply
post #47 of 132
1/23/08 at 6:53pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by lalittle View Post

There isn't as much wiggle room as Samsung would like to have you believe. A company can't just state anything they want in the fine print and remove themselves from any responsibility to deliver the product that they advertised. In other words, just because they state "we reserve the right to do anything we want" in print, it does NOT give them the right to do anything they want. They absolutely CAN be held to the very reasonable expectation that they'll deliver EVERYTHING that was stated in their advertisements, even if they later decide to pull these advertisements. If they don't do this, then the product was sold under false pretenses, which is not legal.

Larry

OK, let's see you hold them to it.....

Seggers
Reply
Reply
post #48 of 132
1/23/08 at 6:59pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by seggers View Post

Clerks II had picture issues before the main credits rolled and has what looked like a layer transition issue at 1:04:44. (To my knowledge, HD DVD is single layer).
Top Gun locked up at around 15mins, requiring a power down.
Aeon Flux locked up in the 40odd min region and again later (I forget where), both requiring a power down.
ST TOS S1, disc 1, 2 and 3 had issues with the 2nd episode on each disc, requiring a power off.

Clerks II and TOS have been confirmed by other postsers. All issues reported, initially, on both threads. AF was checked by a friend and found to be OK on his 5K.

Clerks II and TOS disc 1 still having issues post FW update.

The Simpsons BD had a couple of visual issues when Homer was on the heart shaped iceberg. I forget where exactly.

300 BD played flawlessly and was a fantastic film (even with the intended graininess).

Not that I have them, but then there's 3:10 to Yuma, Sunshine....... All reported by others.

All my discs, except 300, were brand new and I cracked the casing to play them. 300 was a 2nd hand disc from FYE that I tried for fun.

Out of curiosity, what discs have you tried?

Seggers.

Top Gun
Aeon Flux
Miami Vice
Charlie and The Chocolate Factory
Italian Job
Shooter
4 Brothers
300
full metal jacket
payback
the warriors
hot fuzz
oceans 13


havent had a single glitch
Reply
Reply
post #49 of 132
1/23/08 at 7:00pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Volitar Prime View Post

If Samsung discontinued this player in the way that everyone here seems to be panicing about then they would do it right now. "Discontinuing" it in May sound more like a planned end of production run, which makes since if they intend to introduce the next generation model next fall. They have been building these since November. A 7 month production run on a product that is only intended to be on the market for a year at most doesn't sound all that unreasonable.

no offense, but do you actually buy that crap???????

the player only really began to hit retail this month and they already announced it'll be discontinued in May.... FOUR MONTHS LATER!

that's BS. fine, you feel bad for dropping coin on a disappointment of a product, but thats not your fault its theirs. 4 months is not a typical lifespan for a product. by all means, give me some examples of a $800 product that lasted 4 months, that isn't even fully fuctional as advertised, before it was discontinued.

if people are fine spending close to a grand on something that doesnt even perform to spec, fine, but don't gloss over this bull as to be expected and giving others false hope and security its a complete disservice.
Reply
Reply
post #50 of 132
1/23/08 at 7:15pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by acidrock69 View Post

that isn't even fully fuctional as advertised, before it was discontinued.

it hasnt been discontinued YET, and there is an update promised.
Reply
Reply
post #51 of 132
1/23/08 at 7:17pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by acidrock69 View Post

4 months is not a typical lifespan for a product.


I bought mine in when it became available Dec. 2007. from that point to May 2008 is longer than 4 months.
Reply
Reply
post #52 of 132
1/23/08 at 7:39pm
Guys, don't get this riled up other this. This is normal profile 1.0, then profile 1.1, then profile 2.0, then profile X.X life cycle.

Even if the Broadcom chip will never be able to output a 5.1 TrueHD or DTS-MA signal, let's make one thing clear : the 5000 would have had a shot lifespan because it came to market later than expected. We were supposed to get this player in september but Samsung (and LG) have been waiting on Broadcom, which still to this day, can't deliver.

Both LG and Samsung are at the mercy of Broadcom on that one, and from what I know of Broadcom (I work in the PC industry for one of the top 3 manufacturers), we better not hold our breath. They are typically, just like Sigma Designs, announcing the world and then never quite deliver.
Reply
Reply
post #53 of 132
1/23/08 at 7:50pm
While disappointed with how Samsung has handled this player, the reality is that this is a first generation player. Early adopters are basically guinnea pigs and people who bought this player (myself included) should know that they are taking a risk in buying a first generation. They call it the bleeding edge for a reason.

All may not be lost, however. Ben, the author of the Engadget article, has said on another thread that Samsung will release the updates and should continue to provide updates for disk compatibility issues.

For me, I'll be keeping the player. The key for me was the video and the picture the player puts out is excellent. Knock on wood, but I seem to be one of the lucky few who has not experienced any problems with any disks. All 3 types of disks have played without problems. Only about 20 so far, so I may still run into problems, but for now all is good.
Reply
Reply
post #54 of 132
1/23/08 at 8:37pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Murrayb View Post

While disappointed with how Samsung has handled this player, the reality is that this is a first generation player. Early adopters are basically guinnea pigs and people who bought this player (myself included) should know that they are taking a risk in buying a first generation. They call it the bleeding edge for a reason.

It doesn't MATTER what generation a player is -- it HAS to work as advertised, and there is NO excuse for this not happening. It understandable that some firmware updates may be needed, but in the end, it has to do what it was designed to do, and you should expect and demand NOTHING LESS. I absolutely will NOT be satisfied with missing features or lack of functionality that the player is supposed to have -- this is NOT a risk that I am required to take regardless of how new the field is.

The bottom line is that Samsung has to make good on this playing functioning as designed, and as advertised.

Larry
Reply
Reply
post #55 of 132
1/23/08 at 9:40pm
Just because it is to be continued (and what electronics product have you bought that isn't), doesn't mean it will not see any future updates. And the "replacement", which isn't the 5500, may run as late as this one did. Plus, ending production in May, doesn't mean these wont still be selling off store shelves at Best Buy in September. If they want to sell the product they make in April or May, they likely wont want it getting continually flamed in reviews. I think it is very reasonable to believe there will be a good deal more support for this box during the course of most of this year. I think we need to fault the continually changing "target" that the Blu-ray group has put out there over the past couple of years for part of our frustration (in particular, Samsung's need to have a short product cycle). And yes, Samsung for their share in all the particulars of the 5000 the forum has talked about. But discontinuing production in May is likely not the end for our 5000's.
Reply
Reply
post #56 of 132
1/23/08 at 9:55pm
Well, it's a good thing I waited on this unit. I *ALMOST* pulled the trigger on it. However, I saw the writing on the wall for HD DVD and just couldn't justify $800 for a player when I only had a few HD DVD's. Since -in my opinion- the format war has pretty much ended, it is a moot point now. No reason to have anything but a Blu-Ray player. When the prices come down to a reasonable level and 2.0 is fully supported, I will drop the hammer and get a player. $500 for a player isn't reasonable. $250 is getting closer to what I consider "reasonable" for a HD player that does it all. Then again, there was a STANDARD DVD player that released about 2-3 weeks ago that was almost $1,000.00, so what do I know? I am only one of the guys with cash waiting for a decent price.
Reply
Reply
post #57 of 132
1/23/08 at 10:04pm
Well now the date is "subject to change" so May may not be the actual date. I am still sticking with mine, I am tired of waiting and right now would just have movies sitting to be played until a new dual format player comes around. Personally I haven't had as many issues as some people, so overall I am happy with this player.
Reply
Reply
post #58 of 132
1/24/08 at 4:04am
Quote:
Originally Posted by acidrock69 View Post

no offense, but do you actually buy that crap???????

the player only really began to hit retail this month and they already announced it'll be discontinued in May.... FOUR MONTHS LATER!

Yes, I do. I take it you have no experience in the manufacturing of a product with an expected 1 year shelf life. It is common to run a manufacturing line for a few months to build up an inventory of product then retool the line for the next product. In this case they started building these in November of 2007. If they continue to build this into May of 2008 then you have a 7 month manufacturing window. It's not like when they shut down the line in May all of the units in their warehouse as well as on store shelves will just evaporate. They'll have product out for the rest of the year (or until they all sell out). After the 5000 line is shut down in May they will retool for the 5500 line, run that for a few months to build up some inventory of that model, then shut that down to retool for the 6500 and so on. That's how things are done in the manufacturing world for consumer electronics.

Did anyone really expect that they would be manufacturing this same model into 2009 and beyond? We already knew of the 5500 and 6500 models coming out later this year. And guess what, those will be replaced in 2009 in the same manner.

So if you are really that upset about this, then wait until the end of 2008 to get a 6500 but keep in mind that in 2nd quarter of 2009 they are going to discontinue it too, so maybe it would be better to wait until the end of 2009 for whatever will replace the 6500...
Reply
Reply
post #59 of 132
1/24/08 at 6:30am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Volitar Prime View Post

Yes, I do. I take it you have no experience in the manufacturing of a product with an expected 1 year shelf life. It is common to run a manufacturing line for a few months to build up an inventory of product then retool the line for the next product. In this case they started building these in November of 2007. If they continue to build this into May of 2008 then you have a 7 month manufacturing window. It's not like when they shut down the line in May all of the units in their warehouse as well as on store shelves will just evaporate. They'll have product out for the rest of the year (or until they all sell out). After the 5000 line is shut down in May they will retool for the 5500 line, run that for a few months to build up some inventory of that model, then shut that down to retool for the 6500 and so on. That's how things are done in the manufacturing world for consumer electronics.

Did anyone really expect that they would be manufacturing this same model into 2009 and beyond? We already knew of the 5500 and 6500 models coming out later this year. And guess what, those will be replaced in 2009 in the same manner.

So if you are really that upset about this, then wait until the end of 2008 to get a 6500 but keep in mind that in 2nd quarter of 2009 they are going to discontinue it too, so maybe it would be better to wait until the end of 2009 for whatever will replace the 6500...

they started producing the 5000 before Nov, but it was extended because they noticed the thing had serious flaws and postponed it. The few that hit retail in Dec was only a soft release and only this month have they begun being distributed. The same month they announced it was discontinued. They have no problem announcing new products and discontinuations, just can't spill the beans on the 5000 and what/when fixes will be delivered... if at all. Also, the 5500 isn't a successor its the lower-end model so your explanation on changing production doesn't jive. For the 6500 yes, and its ETA is a year after the 5000 so that makes sense in keeping with the annual product release.

Am I missing any HDM players that were discontinued the same month of its wide release? I picked up a XA2 that was discontinued last month, it was released in Feb '07, much better. I have no problem buying pricey electronics knowing every year theres a new lineup, but you can't tell me this fiasco is the norm.
Reply
Reply
post #60 of 132
1/24/08 at 6:53am
Samsung has themselves covered, the brochure pdf clearly states, specs and features can change without notice.
Reply
Reply
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Dual Format Players

AVS Top Picks

AVS › AVS Forum › Blu-ray & HD DVD › Dual Format Players › 5000 to be discontinued in May!