Originally Posted by kyotousa
If you had put a B&W (or other speaker that's better than Boston Acoustic) in the 18'x26' room would it sound better than the Boston Acoustic? Vice versa
When Jonomega made the Yogo would never turn into Corvette analogy it totally obliterate the point of buying good speaker; hence, I said it was an ignorant post.
That being said is 2ch monitor + sub the way to go for small room like 12x12?
Let me try this one last time. I never said that a Yugo would turn into a corvette -- this is a vast misunderstanding on your part. It was an analogy to show that even if you placed a very good engine into a yugo, the yugo wouldn't be able to maximize the use of that engine. Would the yugo go faster? Yes. But, it is still a disservice to the engine which would rather have the chassis of a corvette.
Also, you seem to mix and match my words. I have never said that it was a terrible idea of buying good speakers. I have, however, always said that good room treatments allow the speaker to perform at its maximum. I have never claimed that people should redo the structure of their room, I have no idea where you got that idea from. Room treatments can easily be purchased from reputable dealers and do not require the busting down of walls. Room treatments act to make the acoustical volume larger so that the reflections of waves across the speaker's FR are minimized. If you have a bigger room, great, but if you dont, room treatments can help by increasing the acoustical volume as I just mentioned.
This thread was started because of electronics, not speakers. I have always been a proponent of Room and speakers being the two largest factors for sound quality. If you can afford better speakers, by all means get them! Just realize that the room imparts its own signature and will keep that speaker from sounding its very best. Just because your speakers do not sound their very best DOES NOT MEAN that the speaker was a terrible investment, because it may very well sound VERY GOOD. Room treatments would allow that speaker to sound EXCELLENT. For many people, VERY GOOD is good enough and that is fine.
I hope you have a better understanding of where I am coming from. I have been repetitious because it is important for people to know as many facts as possible and to make compromises based on knowing all of the facts, rather than only a select few details.
My position has been and will always be the following:
For best sound quality,
1. Room is most important. This includes dimensions, treatments, setup.
2. If you are stuck a non-optimal room, right-to-left symmetry is very important a well as listening position (roughly 40% of the length).
3. Next, buy the best speakers you can afford. This is self-explanatory.
4. Buy electronics that have features you want, and support the speakers appropriately for the size of room.
Now, if you can actually read this entire post, you should have a good understanding of where I am coming from. I am not a proponent of tearing down your room because it is non-optimal. I am a proponent of making the best of the resources you have. Resources placed into room treatments yield the best performance to cost ratio. If this is not a possibility, place the money into the speakers as they represent the next best performance to cost ratio. As with all things, these are "to a point". Whether you can tell if something costing 200k$ is worse than something costing 2M$, I don't know as I certainly don't have the money to try that out.
Finally, I suggest you read FA Everest's Master Handbook of Acoustics. This book is an excellent resource to gaining a better understanding of acoustics and how they "play" within room boundaries. It also attempts to familiarize the reader with how room treatments work, and discuses reflections and their damaging effect on the source wave. Additional excellent resources are the Realtraps website where they have video discussion on reflections and how to minimize them.
As a final note, I do have a decent system in a small room. I have maximized my system performance for this room by adhering to right/left symmetry, placing my listening position 0.38 of the length dimension from the rear wall, placing my subwoofer mid-wall, spacing my speakers front baffles at least 2' from any wall. This knowledge, however, is not automatic, it required reading at least the aforementioned resources and the resources here on this forum whom are professionals in the audio realm. If you would like more information on how to maximize your system performance, I can answer as much as I can, and defer you to the professionals when I cannot.
Frenchmon -- rooms treated in an educated manner are not totally dead. this is why I used this exact phrasing
You cannot treat rooms haphazardly just like you cannot toss speakers into a room haphazardly. Professional room treatments involve obtaining optimal reverb time within the room across the entire Frequency spectrum. So, while you are correcting the frequency, you also want to optimize reverb time, and this is extremely difficult in the bass range.
Kyotousa - I mentioned this before but perhaps you missed it because it was embedded with other posts. If speakers are drastically superior, they will sound superior compared to the drastically inferior speaker in most any reasonable environment. I have never said anything contrary to this for speakers.
Additionally, monitor + sub should work in a 12x12 room. It will work better if you can arrange your listening position and speaker positions optimally. Better still if you can afford to put up some bass traps and first reflection absorbers. See where I am going with this? The idea, however, is that you have to balance the costs. 400$ room treatments + 400$ speakers or 800$ speakers and no room treatments? This require careful auditioning of the speakers in your home. If you can hear the superiority without a doubt, get the speakers.
However, 4000$ speakers + 2000$ room treatments (usually enough for huge improvement) or 6000$ speakers? This case is not very straightforward!! For me, at this level of the 'game', I would go with the 2k$ in room treatments.