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Article: 3 Good Reasons To Stick With HD DVD - Page 2

post #31 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by binici View Post

...unfortunetly Blu-ray fans want the whole pie and not just a piece.

Kinda goes with the culture, no?
post #32 of 64
I've cleaned up the thread. Please take the high ground and focus on the subject and not the member.

Thanks
Ron
post #33 of 64
Wow the tone sure has changed around here. I will support both and hopefully the price of the discs will start to drop. I still think they are on the high side.
post #34 of 64
What the hell does 'BOGO' mean???
post #35 of 64
Buy One Get One (free)
post #36 of 64
Makes sense...Thanks...
post #37 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by tarking View Post

One more reason to go for HD-DVD (for non-US folks at least) is that HD-DVD is region free. In Europe BR and HD-DVD media costs about $38 a piece while I can now order some pretty good titles for $15 plus shipping or even less when BOGOs are on from Amazon.com. No sales or BOGOs worth mentioning on BR or HD-DVD media seen on this side of the Atlantic. Warner had buy four get one free here...

Not to mention studios HATE it when you can watch discs in Europe or other areas before they've launched the same film in theaters.. Region coding is probably one of the biggest "pluses" for studios, customers be damned.
post #38 of 64
you just have to get these reasons into sony fanboys heads...

Just because they can spend nearly $400 to watch HD movies doesnt mean everyone can. Betamax was the so-called superior format and look what happened to it. I want to see how toshiba markets during the superbowl. Because a lot of average joes will be watching.
post #39 of 64
HD DVD is the best...
post #40 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by Otis Widlflower View Post

Not to mention studios HATE it when you can watch discs in Europe or other areas before they've launched the same film in theaters.. Region coding is probably one of the biggest "pluses" for studios, customers be damned.

OK... so then how do they expect to control distribution if/when VOD becomes a reality?? The Internet, thus far, hasn't proven itself to be especially leakproof when it comes to controlling content. If history is any indication, the reality is that studios will be helpless to prevent "unauthorized" access to movies that haven't yet been released in particular 'regions' of the world.

One would think that it would be in their best interest to adapt to the inevitability of world-wide synchronous distribution now, with the small scale that HDM represents, rather than later, when the VOD floodgates are opened.
post #41 of 64
I was sure that HD DVD had region options, just that it is yet to be used.
post #42 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prey521 View Post

Now, if all the studios published their movies on both formats, then having 2 formats wouldn't hurt.

Actually it would. It forces retailers to devote display space to both. Just like in the bad old days of VHS vs Beta.

Also, whether appreciated or not by some here, the continued existence of competing, incompatible formats sends a message to consumers that they would be wise not to choose either until there is a clear "winner" in this war.

Which is precisely what has been happening in the marketplace.

Why did I return my HD DVD player? Precisely because I see only one format standing after the dust settles and it was looking pretty grim for HD DVD soon after I purchased my machine.

Could I be wrong about this? Well, sure I could. But I sure as heck am not the only consumer to feel that way.

Multiple, incompatible formats are simply bad for the marketplace. If you decry "FUD," as so many here accuse those that advise against putting money into HD DVD at present, NOTHING could possibly create more FUD in the marketplace than the very existence of two, incompatible formats slugging it out. To me that is simply self evident!
post #43 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by dawziecat View Post

Actually it would. It forces retailers to devote display space to both. Just like in the bad old days of VHS vs Beta.

Also, whether appreciated or not by some here, the continued existence of competing, incompatible formats sends a message to consumers that they would be wise not to choose either until there is a clear "winner" in this war.

Multiple, incompatible formats are simply bad for the marketplace. If you decry "FUD," as so many here accuse those that advise against putting money into HD DVD at present, NOTHING could possibly create more FUD in the marketplace than the very existence of two, incompatible formats slugging it out. To me that is simply self evident!

I ask again: why is it bad to have 2 format when it is clearly working in other industries: wireless cellular, digital signal delivery, OS.

Why are their more than 1 format & it clearly helps the consumers with choice and pricing in other arenas. Why does 1 format have to go away?

Don't kid yourself to think it has to do with anything but greed to have 1 format. The consumer has already been left out of your 1 format equation.

Btw, retail display space is clearly a POS & marketing tool. The retailer chooses that to expand his sales not help the consumer pick a format. As a consumer, I could care less where he places things to influence me.
post #44 of 64
I'm just glad I bought the XA2 instead of another player. If I'm going to own a player for a format that dies, at least it's still one of the best players available for the format that I don't think will die for a long, long time. (SD-DVD)
post #45 of 64
trippleM, the reason is because not every movies will be on both formats. They provide the same service, but without being able to talk to each other. Cell phones can all connect to each other. Each OS has it's perks. Some consumers are getting tired of havening different ones. Most choose Windows because it's the one with the most application support. Digital signal delivery formats (satellite, fiber optic, and cable) can't talk to each other either, but they don't need to because they get the same major content.
Yes, part is greed, but with 2 formats that can't talk to each other in any way dealing with something as big of an industry as movies, with only limited content on each one it's in no way good for the consumer. The only options most consumers have is to either get nothing or get a dual format player. Well, as illustrated by the market, most get nothing keeping both formats down.
post #46 of 64
Upon the release of recent news on Warner Bros. shifting its HD home video support from both formats to only Blu-ray, many of the mainstream media outlets quickly jumped to the conclusion that the HD format war was over. The idea of the format war being over couldn't be further from the truth, although Sony's Blu-ray is without question picking up supporters. Conjecture from the recent Consumer Electronic Show suggests Sony is helping their cause with as much as $500,000,000 per studio willing to jump on to their sidelines, but that support and the figure have not been easy to confirm so far. The same rumors surfaced when Sony was battling for high-resolution audio supremacy with their SACD format vs. the also-doomed DVD-Audio format.

Sony knows the stakes are high, but so do the likes of Toshiba and Microsoft. The pace of this war is playing out quickly, as HD DVD had booming sales at the end of 2007. Prices for some HD DVD players dropped to as low as $99 per unit. Then Blu-ray stole the spotlight back by persuading Warner Bros. to support only their side.

Some industry experts say content rules supreme and Blu-ray clearly has the edge in terms of big-ticket titles. However, many prominent retailers say that without the players in the marketplace, selling the discs is nearly impossible. Sony benefits from their Playstation 3 system being the most stable of all high-def players, but most mainstream consumers don't play video games and don't look to an odd-sized game machine with clunky controllers and no RS-232 jack as a source for movie playback. In terms of set-top boxes, HD DVD has lower-priced models with that magic word DVD on them, which every consumer understands. Blu-ray, as a brand and as a concept, is still new to the soon-to-be-HDTV-converted marketplace. Moreover, people who already own set-top Blu-ray players suffer from the frequent need for firmware updates. Even the most recent players from Sony and Pioneer will not effectively play the latest blockbuster titles from Blu-ray-supportive studios, such as Disney, with its Pirates of the Caribbean trilogy.

Can The HD DVD Camp Right The Ship?
With HD DVD on the ropes after the Blu-Friday Warners announcement, the HD DVD camp looks to regroup. It's likely too late for Microsoft to re-engineer their Xbox 360 system to run HD DVD internally, and with its overall success in the gaming world, who can blame them? What Microsoft can do is give people the incentive to add the company's HD DVD drive to the vast base of players on the market. Perhaps extending the promotion where gamers would get close to the equivalent of the price of the Xbox 360 HD DVD add-on drive in free titles would convert a few million more people to the world of HD DVD.

Microsoft is the key to the future of HD DVD in terms of success with software and implementation. Amazingly, the actual specification for Blu-ray isn't yet fully implemented in the majority of current Blu-ray players, thus leaving early adopters increasingly angry at Blu-ray 2.0 discs for not playing effectively in older Blu-ray players. This leaves the door open for Microsoft to produce the best, most meaningful software and code they have ever written if they want to potentially rally HD DVD back on top of this fray. HDMI is still a nightmare for consumers, installers and equipment companies, yet there is no faster way to get a Hollywood studio's attention than to show them that you (with help from Intel, a long-standing partner of Microsoft) have the best, most reliable copy-protected connection. Right now, players of each format have HDMI connectivity issues, but it's the only way to get uncompressed audio and 1080p video from the player to the monitor and/or receiver. If Microsoft can whip up a strong solution here, consider it a major battle won.

Back to the world of conjecture, if studios can be bought for $500,000,000, then Microsoft's Steve Ballmer should be fueling the company Gulfstream 550 and heading down to Los Angeles to see the likes of Fox, and then swing a quick U-turn over the Southland to see the bigwigs at Disney in Burbank. $500,000,000 is a lot of coin to dangle in front of a company and will certainly get someone's attention at the studios. If that is the cost of doing business and how the game is being played, then it is time for Microsoft to step up, as nobody has the ability to pay more than the Seattle software superstar.

The Last Battle of a Two-Front War
The structure of the format war reminds me in some ways of World War II, in that the battle isn't as simple as England and the United States vs. the Axis powers in Europe and Japan. Even if Blu-ray runs away with the format war (think one or two more studios going to Blu-ray), they still have the fight of their lives left to wage. The last battle in the format war is with the consumer darling, the almighty traditional DVD.

For consumers not wowed by impressive 1080p video or are afraid of taking sides in a VHS vs. Beta-like format war, DVD offers millions of meaningful titles, quick load times and players that cost well under $100. Want to placate the hyper kids in the back of the minivan? Don't look to Blu-ray and HD DVD, as traditional DVD rules this multi-billion dollar world of mainstream consumers. Want to sell movies in bulk at grocery stores, drug stores and even Costco? Well then you have to knock off the mighty DVD in the eyes of the everyday consumer. There are still vast technical issues that frustrate and delay millions of mainstream consumers from making the move from standard-definition DVDs to HD discs of both formats. Wanna watch a movie while traveling the country? Traditional DVD rules that world, too, despite Apple's support of Blu-ray and Toshiba's spattering of HD DVD-drive laptops.

In the end, when the HD battle is over and the charred Earth is starting to cool, the final battle will start to rage and that is a battle to kill off the DVD. Don't think for a second that Microsoft and Toshiba don't know they have the format with DVD in their name, and that they don't know the value of that branding. They know what they have and are going to fight to the end to try to win. Right now, Sony and their teammates have them on the ropes, but even with a lead, both sides have their weaknesses.

I don't want to predict who is going to win the format war at this stage, as there are too many battles left to fight. However, I can tell you, no matter what you read in the mainstream press, this war is not quite over yet.

by: Jerry Del Colliano
post #47 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1031982 View Post

trippleM, the reason is because not every movies will be on both formats. They provide the same service, but without being able to talk to each other. Cell phones can all connect to each other. Each OS has it's perks. Some consumers are getting tired of havening different ones. Most choose Windows because it's the one with the most application support. Digital signal delivery formats (satellite, fiber optic, and cable) can't talk to each other either, but they don't need to because they get the same major content.

But this is merely a marketing contrivance... there is absolutely no technical reason why the same content could not be made available on both formats.

And what requires that they be able to "talk" to each other anyway? I have HD DVD, DVD, and CD players, and an AM/FM tuner... none of them talk to each other. They don't need to. They each deliver their respective content through a common interface, my A/V receiver.

Don't get me wrong, I'd LIKE to see one format (HD DVD ). But it seems to me that those adamant that the "market" cannot support both are in fact afraid that the format they've chosen (cough-Blu-ray) could not prevail in the face of a fair, balanced, consumer-driven competition.
post #48 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by JOHNnDENVER View Post

I remain commited to format neutrality.

HD-DVD's biggest advantage is still the price of admission. I guess I don't see any reason not to have HD-DVD in your system when the cost of the player is so low.

With that said? I went to CC last night to pick up my regular Tuesday new release(s)...
I ended up picking up all three Ocean's movies on SD? Why because the Blu-ray and HD-DVD versions were $30 each, the box set was $90... YIKES!!

11 on SD was $7, 12 on SD was $9.99 and included Syrina as well, and the 13 was $13.99......... Self made box set on SD in anamorphic widescreen? $31 + a free Syrina movie.

Yeah. I went to CC to look around a bit myself. I had been toying with getting another HD player for the apt I keep in Va. while working to use as both an HD and for upconverting. They had 1 A3 left for $149. I walked out of the store with it. Even at $149 it's still a bargain, and one helluva upconverter too.
post #49 of 64
I don't need convincing since I've made my choice and it's HD great price great PQ.

If Sony succeeds in killing it off they can go pound sand I'll still have a good up converter plus seven movies for 150 bucks. I will never jump on the same for much more Blu band wagon. You take out gamers and the high def consumer has clearly spoken price still matters.
post #50 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1031982 View Post

trippleM, the reason is because not every movies will be on both formats. They provide the same service, but without being able to talk to each other. Cell phones can all connect to each other.

Because of the companies behind them making it work not because of the format!

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1031982 View Post

Each OS has it's perks. Some consumers are getting tired of havening different ones. Most choose Windows because it's the one with the most application support.

But that is changing rapidly with Mac as you know.
& as you know the MS money maker OFFICE can play on both.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1031982 View Post

Digital signal delivery formats (satellite, fiber optic, and cable) can't talk to each other either, but they don't need to because they get the same major content.

But they are different formats that allows users to choose based on individual price needs.
The content providers have made it available on all platforms. Has nothing to do with the multiple platforms!
Because the CE realize it's not the delivery vehicle but the revenues from all channels!
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1031982 View Post

Yes, part is greed, but with 2 formats that can't talk to each other in any way dealing with something as big of an industry as movies, with only limited content on each one it's in no way good for the consumer. The only options most consumers have is to either get nothing or get a dual format player. Well, as illustrated by the market, most get nothing keeping both formats down.

There you go. All the examples above have nothing to do with the multiple platforms. It has NOTHING to do with formats. It is the players & greed that are keeping this from working.

My examples above shows why it has been proven that multiple formats work in other industries without issues.
post #51 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by BobRob View Post

But this is merely a marketing contrivance... there is absolutely no technical reason why the same content could not be made available on both formats.

And what requires that they be able to "talk" to each other anyway? I have HD DVD, DVD, and CD players, and an AM/FM tuner... none of them talk to each other. They don't need to. They each deliver their respective content through a common interface, my A/V receiver.

Don't get me wrong, I'd LIKE to see one format (HD DVD ). But it seems to me that those adamant that the "market" cannot support both are in fact afraid that the format they've chosen (cough-Blu-ray) could not prevail in the face of a fair, balanced, consumer-driven competition.


I wish I could have written this. Kudos.
post #52 of 64
i'm just waiting for the day for an inexpensive HD DVD burner and HD DVD R disks.

Standard dvd may never go away (in my lifetime). for example, how cool would it be to burn the SDVD Matrix trilogy onto one HD DVD R disc?

And seeing how the price trend is going, how much cheaper would a HD DVD burner be compared to a blu ray burner
post #53 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by SuicideJockey View Post

Microsoft is the key to the future of HD DVD in terms of success with software and implementation. Amazingly, the actual specification for Blu-ray isn’t yet fully implemented in the majority of current Blu-ray players, thus leaving early adopters increasingly angry at Blu-ray 2.0 discs for not playing effectively in older Blu-ray players. This leaves the door open for Microsoft to produce the best, most meaningful software and code they have ever written if they want to potentially rally HD DVD back on top of this fray. HDMI is still a nightmare for consumers, installers and equipment companies, yet there is no faster way to get a Hollywood studio’s attention than to show them that you (with help from Intel, a long-standing partner of Microsoft) have the best, most reliable copy-protected connection. Right now, players of each format have HDMI connectivity issues, but it’s the only way to get uncompressed audio and 1080p video from the player to the monitor and/or receiver. If Microsoft can whip up a strong solution here, consider it a major battle won.

Back to the world of conjecture, if studios can be bought for $500,000,000, then Microsoft’s Steve Ballmer should be fueling the company Gulfstream 550 and heading down to Los Angeles to see the likes of Fox, and then swing a quick U-turn over the Southland to see the bigwigs at Disney in Burbank. $500,000,000 is a lot of coin to dangle in front of a company and will certainly get someone’s attention at the studios. If that is the cost of doing business and how the game is being played, then it is time for Microsoft to step up, as nobody has the ability to pay more than the Seattle software superstar.

I have always contend that MS has actually always 'cared' about its customers (free codecs & SP's after initial outlay) & to see it's xBox base deteriorate over a 'not asked for' functionality as BR is in PS3 would be a strategic & operational CS failure...not to mention economic failure.
post #54 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by urbansniper View Post

i'm just waiting for the day for an inexpensive HD DVD burner and HD DVD R disks.

Standard dvd may never go away (in my lifetime). for example, how cool would it be to burn the SDVD Matrix trilogy onto one HD DVD R disc?

And seeing how the price trend is going, how much cheaper would a HD DVD burner be compared to a blu ray burner

IF HD can make themselves the next logical step for SD consumers, then they have it won for sure.
Pricing is first. Content 2nd. DRM softening 3rd.
post #55 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by tripleM View Post

Why does 1 format have to go away?

It's kind of hard to explain "self evident truth."

Your mind is made up . . . fine. Your dollars committed.

Mine are not . . . and I think it unwise to open my wallet to this industry until I feel we have a "winner." Even if both BluRay and HD DVD players were free, I would not buy movies for either. Rent, sure. Buy, no. And I guess you think having two, incompatible, competing formats is not an added expense for the rental industry either.

The point I feel you choose to miss is that the vast majority of consumers feel there is no future for two formats to survive. They will not commit dollars to this marketing mess that sees some movies being released on one format and not the other. THAT is bad for BOTH formats . . . and this reluctance to commit to either is assuredly NOT "going away."

Even "free" dual format players is a poor solution.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tripleM View Post

. . .does 1 format have to go away?

IMO, absolutely! Otherwise, neither is going anywhere.

It's no matter to me which "goes away," BTW. Or even how it is accomplished. I'll admit the price of HD DVD players is now VERY attractive. And we have the format war to thank for that. Still, I feel the format has no long term future. The studios have killed it.

Actually, I think the very day the first studio declared itself "exclusive" for one format over the other put the "handwriting on the wall." Both formats can not thrive. In fact, as long as the "war" lasts, neither will thrive.
post #56 of 64
That is the same opinion that a friend of mine had up until recently. He said the exact same thing and that there was NO WAY he was getting either format until there was only one format. However, now that the price drops have occurred, he called me just a few minutes ago and said he was picking up an A3 on his way home. At it's current price he said he'd be stupid not to since it upconverts very well and he'll get 7 free movies with it. He'll be ebay'ing his OPPO now.

His dad recently was in the market for an upconverting player as well and he came to the same conclusion.

Price point is definitely going to (and has if you look at Amazon) spur sales and if enough people keep buying HDDVD players, you don't think the studios are going to say "Wait a minute, we're losing money on disc sales here!"?
post #57 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by dawziecat View Post

Mine are not . . . and I think it unwise to open my wallet to this industry until I feel we have a "winner." Even if both BluRay and HD DVD players were free, I would not buy movies for either. Rent, sure. Buy, no. And I guess you think having two, incompatible, competing formats is not an added expense for the rental industry either.

They are the middlemen - distribution network - facilitators. Nothing more. If some1 like 1 of our board sponsors starts selling 1k's of units per week these will will compete on that level. Us consumer will only benefit. Display - endcaps: are for the poor or weak & last I check, early technology adopters aren't those types.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dawziecat View Post

The point I feel you choose to miss is that the vast majority of consumers feel there is no future for two formats to survive. They will not commit dollars to this marketing mess that sees some movies being released on one format and not the other. THAT is bad for BOTH formats . . . and this reluctance to commit to either is assuredly NOT "going away."

The market was $300m vs. $16B for SD. But what does that have to do with 2 competing formats being bad? The first steps in any technology adoption has to start somewhere. Why can't there be 2 formats? It's not the format's fault. The format can compete on their own.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dawziecat View Post

Even "free" dual format players is a poor solution.

I go back to my cellular phone example, that has to connect on 2 different platform in this country... & the price for handsets & monthly access charges have gone way down. So why can't that happen to a dual player?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dawziecat View Post

IMO, absolutely! Otherwise, neither is going anywhere.

If they both learn to share the pie & compromise like the other dual format compatible industries, then it would go somewhere. Once again this has nothing to do with us as consumers having a say.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dawziecat View Post

It's no matter to me which "goes away," BTW. Or even how it is accomplished. I'll admit the price of HD DVD players is now VERY attractive. And we have the format war to thank for that. Still, I feel the format has no long term future. The studios have killed it.

Yes the content provider are also to blame if this all fails. Their greed is chief amongst this war.
post #58 of 64
Of course one format doesn't HAVE to go away. If there was content for both and both could sell, we COULD have a Blu-ray as a PS3 format that has higher bandwidth and greater capacity, which bodes well for computer storage. HD DVD would allow the industry to convert current replication lines in a manner that is relatively easy and inexpensive.

This is not a war between formats, because we have no idea which format most people actually would want. What we do know is what marketing attracts them and which studios have released blockbuster titles that have been appealing. We also know that a game machine that plays HD discs attracts people. A format war would present two formats with equal content an allow the consumer to decide which way they'd like to watch their movies.

If both formats were guaranteed to have equal releases from all studios for 3 years, we could find out how each format would be supported by consumers.

As it stands, I am an HD DVD owner, but only because I'm waiting for finalization of specs and more stability from standalone players on the Blu side. What frustrates me most about this situation is that Blu-ray clearly wasn't/isn't ready, but the studios and CE manufacturers decided for us that we should go with an unfinished product that maximizes their profit while increasing our frustration with multiple profiles that are not even close to being ironed out.
post #59 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by thebland View Post

I can't imagine anyone who already owns a HD DVD player not sticking with it...

... especially after cutting off the UPC in an attempt to get on the mail-in offer with a 6 month waiting list...
post #60 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by tripleM View Post

I ask again: why is it bad to have 2 format when it is clearly working in other industries: wireless cellular, digital signal delivery, OS.

Why are their more than 1 format & it clearly helps the consumers with choice and pricing in other arenas. Why does 1 format have to go away?

Don't kid yourself to think it has to do with anything but greed to have 1 format. The consumer has already been left out of your 1 format equation.

Btw, retail display space is clearly a POS & marketing tool. The retailer chooses that to expand his sales not help the consumer pick a format. As a consumer, I could care less where he places things to influence me.

My sentiments exactly. I see it just like GSM vs CDMA...sure I would love to have VCast from Verizon, but man, those T-Mobile services prices sure do make it easier on the wallet to do what I need the service for in the first place: to make a call.
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